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Thread: How to Identify a Baccarat Scammer, Fraudster, Liar, Troll or Delusional Bragger

  1. #21
    Originally Posted by mcap View Post
    Yes. Sketchy in all cases. Dancer is the epitome of sketchy. And like I said, funny way of “moving on from gambling,” as it wasn’t moving on from gambling like you said he did.
    The thing about gambling for a living is its a grind. If you are doing it right its boring as hell. Its boring because you are always playing within the means of your bankroll. The risk of ruin is somewhere between slim and none. It's production work. Some people are made for it and some aren't. You can study gambling all you want and become very good at it. But many will find they don't like the grind and move on.

    But moving on doesn't mean you have to forget gambling altogether. Guys like Braun, Thorp, Jacobsen seem to get a big kick out of solving the mathmatical puzzles the games present. But that doesn't mean they have to go to grinding it out in the casinos.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  2. #22
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by mcap View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post

    You obviously got your take on Jacobsen from Tewlj. But you obviously missed the part about tewlj being pissed at Jacobsen for being a successful consultant to casino execs. You should go to Amazon and buy his book "Advanced Advantage Play."

    Tewlj decided to label Jacobsen as a failed gambler because he moved on from it. But when you are a PHD you have a lot more options than just gambling. Its like saying Thorp was a failed gambler because he moved on from blackjack. Tewlj has a high school diploma. What the hell does he have to move on to?
    You’re getting pretty good at this cock holstering thing Mickey, from Rob to Trump to EJ now, a diverse cast of eccentric characters. Becoming a consultant is a funny way of moving on from gambling.
    Bob Dancer was a consultant to casinos WHILE he was selling his shit to gamblers. He wrote about his consulting business. He gave seminars to casino execs.

    David Sklansky has sold a ton of books, not just on poker, but all around gambling. He was also Bob Stupak's consultant on the math of gambling games. He also was consultant to Lyle Berman of Grand Casinos. This goes back to about 2000 but the Grand Casinos in Mississippi put in a ton of $5 denom IGT Vision machines which were highly exploited by hustlers. Many making 20K a month. Berman got Sklansky to visit and look the situation over. Sklansky went down and took a look. He told Berman the only solution was to get rid of the Vision Series which Berman promptly did. I've don't know that I've ever seen any criticism of Sklansky for working both sides of the fence.

    And, of course, Shack worked for Venetian. So he worked both sides of the fence.

    So was becoming a consultant funny for these guys too?
    Max Rubin and his work with Barona as well.

  3. #23
    Originally Posted by mcap View Post
    Yes. Sketchy in all cases. Dancer’s rep is the epitome of sketchy stab anyone if it makes you a dollar. Him and Rubin. And like I said, funny way of “moving on from gambling,” as it wasn’t moving on from gambling like you said he did.
    I missed this as I just responded to Mickey. Why did Shack get banned from the BJ Ball for working at Venetian but Dancer gets invited every year? Especially considering his involvement with South Point. And there's many mentions of Dancer screwing other AP's out of opportunities (Revel promo) while there is no evidence that Shack did.

  4. #24
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    You need to ask Coach Smelly about always picking fights, not me.
    I have recently developed a new theory about coach belly. He is very anti-AP. He takes every position against AP's. Any AP claiming anything even supported by math, he challenges and takes a position against. And every player spouting any kind of theory that defies math and reality, he supports. All your losing gambling practices, martingales, and progressives. Overcoming -EV with hocus pokus and rabbit's feet. Coach belly is all for.

    Now it could be that he is just a failed AP on some level and is now very anti-AP. But I am starting to think it is more along the lines of he is pro-casino industry, which would naturally put him anti-AP. Perhaps he works in the industry. Probably not low level like a dealer, those guys don't care. Maybe some kind of management that makes him a company guy and anti-AP. And that would explain his supporting known losing strategies. Endorse losing play, more money for the casino industry and employees. And if not him, maybe his wife or other family member has the association with the casino industry. And he lives right outside of Atlantic City which fits for someone working in the industry.

  5. #25
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    You need to ask Coach Smelly about always picking fights, not me.
    I have recently developed a new theory about coach belly. He is very anti-AP. He takes every position against AP's. Any AP claiming anything even supported by math, he challenges and takes a position against. And every player spouting any kind of theory that defies math and reality, he supports. All your losing gambling practices, martingales, and progressives. Overcoming -EV with hocus pokus and rabbit's feet. Coach belly is all for.

    Now it could be that he is just a failed AP on some level and is now very anti-AP. But I am starting to think it is more along the lines of he is pro-casino industry, which would naturally put him anti-AP. Perhaps he works in the industry Probably not low level like a dealer, those guys don't care. Maybe some kind of management that makes him a company guy and anti-AP. And that would explain his supporting known losing strategies. Endorsee losing play, more money for the casino industry and employees. And if not him, maybe his wife or other family member has the association with the casino industry. And he lives right outside of Atlantic City which fits for someone working in the industry.
    He's just an asshole troll that tries to play "prosecutor."

  6. #26
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    You need to ask Coach Smelly about always picking fights, not me.
    I have recently developed a new theory about coach belly. He is very anti-AP. He takes every position against AP's. Any AP claiming anything even supported by math, he challenges and takes a position against. And every player spouting any kind of theory that defies math and reality, he supports. All your losing gambling practices, martingales, and progressives. Overcoming -EV with hocus pokus and rabbit's feet. Coach belly is all for.

    Now it could be that he is just a failed AP on some level and is now very anti-AP. But I am starting to think it is more along the lines of he is pro-casino industry, which would naturally put him anti-AP. Perhaps he works in the industry Probably not low level like a dealer, those guys don't care. Maybe some kind of management that makes him a company guy and anti-AP. And that would explain his supporting known losing strategies. Endorsee losing play, more money for the casino industry and employees. And if not him, maybe his wife or other family member has the association with the casino industry. And he lives right outside of Atlantic City which fits for someone working in the industry.
    He's just an asshole troll that tries to play "prosecutor."
    And there is THAT too!

  7. #27
    Originally Posted by The Boz View Post
    Eliot is and has always been the real deal. His old website was a bonanza of knowledge for those who understand how to use it. And saved a lot of money and time for people chasing things they thought seemed like plays but they didn’t do the math on. No one can argue he is not a mathematical genius.

    I know some bitched that he gave away too much and hurt some AP’s but the guy was honest about what he did. And admitted BJ wasn’t for him. How many have been as honest as Eliot has been with exactly what he was doing? Mike can’t and we all know he worked for the V and never fully explained what he did there and why it didn’t last. And look at Dancer and his relationships with casinos over the years.

    And for the most telling thing of all, you can’t find a place or time I said a negative things about Eliot. It may not mean much but there aren’t many people in this community you can say that about.��
    It appears you are well versed on Eliot and his past. I assume your knowledge about his talents were gathered more during your gambling years. Can you give an example of how his bonanza of information website actually helped you defeat the casinos? Was his math information different from Shanks? Shouldn’t they both come to the same conclusions. After all the math is the math.

    You say for fact, you never said a negative thing about Eliot makes him a stand out in this community. Please explain why your opinion is worth more than mine or anyone else’s here?

    Also, after reading all these posts about all these AP’s who tried to sell their different information to casinos says a lot about the AP community. I guess when their plays start drying up, they’ll do and sell anything for a buck. Sounds more like desperation to me instead of strong profits.

  8. #28
    Our plays haven't dried up and I certainly wouldn't help any casino.

  9. #29
    What do some of the members think of the late Howard Schwartz who was the marketing director at the Gamblers Book Club for 31 years? He also wrote:

    A casino pit management and supervisor training manual.

    Also, he wrote:

    A card counter course for casino pit boss and floor supervisor.

    Years ago I actually visited that store on Charleston and 11th many times before they moved.

  10. #30
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by mcap View Post
    Yes. Sketchy in all cases. Dancer is the epitome of sketchy. And like I said, funny way of “moving on from gambling,” as it wasn’t moving on from gambling like you said he did.
    The thing about gambling for a living is its a grind. If you are doing it right its boring as hell. Its boring because you are always playing within the means of your bankroll. The risk of ruin is somewhere between slim and none. It's production work. Some people are made for it and some aren't. You can study gambling all you want and become very good at it. But many will find they don't like the grind and move on.

    But moving on doesn't mean you have to forget gambling altogether. Guys like Braun, Thorp, Jacobsen seem to get a big kick out of solving the mathmatical puzzles the games present. But that doesn't mean they have to go to grinding it out in the casinos.
    Keep moving those goalposts mick. Anyway I missed the self imposed arbitrer of who is real and how real they are has chimed im so I guess that’s the end of it.

  11. #31
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    The thing about gambling for a living is its a grind. If you are doing it right its boring as hell. Its boring because you are always playing within the means of your bankroll. The risk of ruin is somewhere between slim and none.
    I am a big Albert Brooks fan. Just seeing that guy now cracks me up. So one of my favorites was a movie from the 70's or 80s's, Lost in America. Anyone remember the 'Nest Egg Principal'? (clip below). I have always thought of a bankroll as the nest egg. As long as you have the bankroll (nest egg), you can go on, and overcome negative variance. The bankroll or nest egg = future income. And you protect the bankroll (nest egg) by always playing to the smallest risk of ruin, like mickey said, between slim and none is good.

    So in the clip, the wife, Julie Haggerty, woke up in the middle of the night in Las Vegas and gambled away the nest egg.

    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...tail&FORM=VIRE

  12. #32
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    he lives right outside of Atlantic City
    Right outside NYC...not AC.

  13. #33
    Originally Posted by blackhole View Post
    Originally Posted by The Boz View Post
    Eliot is and has always been the real deal. His old website was a bonanza of knowledge for those who understand how to use it. And saved a lot of money and time for people chasing things they thought seemed like plays but they didn’t do the math on. No one can argue he is not a mathematical genius.

    I know some bitched that he gave away too much and hurt some AP’s but the guy was honest about what he did. And admitted BJ wasn’t for him. How many have been as honest as Eliot has been with exactly what he was doing? Mike can’t and we all know he worked for the V and never fully explained what he did there and why it didn’t last. And look at Dancer and his relationships with casinos over the years.

    And for the most telling thing of all, you can’t find a place or time I said a negative things about Eliot. It may not mean much but there aren’t many people in this community you can say that about.��
    It appears you are well versed on Eliot and his past. I assume your knowledge about his talents were gathered more during your gambling years. Can you give an example of how his bonanza of information website actually helped you defeat the casinos? Was his math information different from Shanks? Shouldn’t they both come to the same conclusions. After all the math is the math.

    You say for fact, you never said a negative thing about Eliot makes him a stand out in this community. Please explain why your opinion is worth more than mine or anyone else’s here?

    Also, after reading all these posts about all these AP’s who tried to sell their different information to casinos says a lot about the AP community. I guess when their plays start drying up, they’ll do and sell anything for a buck. Sounds more like desperation to me instead of strong profits.

    I’ll try to answer. My opinion is worth the same as everyone else’s here without history on context, not much. But when you combine multiple people who one can tell know what they are talking about, things have a high probability of being true. That happens over time, not with a few posts. And when personal experience with what you read turns out to be correct, credibility goes up. It’s why something Mickey says about a game has more credibility than something a new poster says. Just simple common sense. But in my case, my opinion can be accepted at what exactly you make it worth.

    As for the info, in my case it was saving me money more than making me money. I used to play a lot of BJ in my early trips to Vegas. I played BS and always looked for ways to play for as little cost as possible without going into counting for entertainment value. I tried counting on a basic system and quickly realized it wasn’t worth it to me. I’ve never hid what I played and it’s what brought me to these sites years ago. I had the dumb idea some side bets could be beaten by simple counting too. Eliot’s work showed me I was correct that they could be on one in particular, but it took much more than I thought it did and knew again it wasn’t for me. And on another I was way off in my uneducated thoughts on the bet.

    As for comparing him to Mike, I personally used both and have no idea if they ever came to different conclusions on a game, but that is not even what is being talked about here.

    And I’ll tell you something I’ve told you many times. I’m grateful for the people I’ve met (even if I never actually MET them) on these sites and made money from it. And no one has ever tried to take advantage of me or scam me. It is not life changing money, but it’s definitely saved me at times and made me money others by me simply being willing to listen and learn.

    And it’s why I can easily see something as probably Bullshit right from the start. Common sense is a valuable tool in life and can’t be taught. Some need to use it more.
    Last edited by The Boz; 11-30-2020 at 02:43 PM.

  14. #34
    Originally Posted by The Boz View Post
    And I’ll tell you something I’ve told you many times. I’m grateful for the people I’ve met (even if I never actually MET them) on these sites and made money from it. And no one has ever tried to take advantage of me or scam me. It is not life changing money, but it’s definitely saved me at times and made me money others by me simply being willing to listen and learn.

    And it’s why I can easily see something as probably Bullshit right from the start. Common sense is a valuable tool in life and can’t be taught. Some need to use it more.
    I guess that makes me fortunate always being able to view and treat casinos as pure entertainment win or lose. More like playing James Bond occasionally always being treated like royalty.

    It never crossed my mind once to go to casinos with wife and friends with the intentions of eventually grinding out some type of hourly wage over time.

    I stumbled into these forums way past the prime of my gambling days (except for poker) and found enjoyment in the stupidity being posted. I try to interject doubt and common sense like you suggest is a valuable tool.

    Not sure why anyone would search down anonymous gambling forums for advice. I understand when the hopeless are looking for any way out, but certainly not a successful business man. How were you even able to find the time in order to make AP’ing worth it. I was lucky if I was able to get 6 hours of sleep in my day.

    Not sure what you meant when you said your anonymous AP friends definitely saved you at times. My opinion is without taking AP life on full time and living in Vegas or close to lots of action, making yourself available 24/7, for whatever might be going on, for however much time a play might last is a full-time commitment.

    Were you randomly traveling to casinos when your business allowed you some time off to scrap up a few extra AP bucks? I understand just because it’s an AP move doesn’t guarantee a win anytime you go. Did you add all your sessions together to eventually gain the math expectations?

    At least I could confirm we agree on this statement you made. "Common sense is a valuable tool in life and can't be taught. Some need to use it more."

  15. #35
    Heard of scam where an asian team would talk to someone playing Madonna and would sneakily switch the bet level and hope the ploppy wouldn't notice.

  16. #36
    Originally Posted by mcap View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by mcap View Post
    Yes. Sketchy in all cases. Dancer is the epitome of sketchy. And like I said, funny way of “moving on from gambling,” as it wasn’t moving on from gambling like you said he did.
    The thing about gambling for a living is its a grind. If you are doing it right its boring as hell. Its boring because you are always playing within the means of your bankroll. The risk of ruin is somewhere between slim and none. It's production work. Some people are made for it and some aren't. You can study gambling all you want and become very good at it. But many will find they don't like the grind and move on.

    But moving on doesn't mean you have to forget gambling altogether. Guys like Braun, Thorp, Jacobsen seem to get a big kick out of solving the mathmatical puzzles the games present. But that doesn't mean they have to go to grinding it out in the casinos.
    Keep moving those goalposts mick. Anyway I missed the self imposed arbitrer of who is real and how real they are has chimed im so I guess that’s the end of it.
    I don't move goal posts. I just tell the truth. You should try it sometime.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  17. #37
    Originally Posted by radicalwin View Post
    Heard of scam where an asian team would talk to someone playing Madonna and would sneakily switch the bet level and hope the ploppy wouldn't notice.
    Creators.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  18. #38
    Originally Posted by blackhole View Post
    Originally Posted by The Boz View Post
    And I’ll tell you something I’ve told you many times. I’m grateful for the people I’ve met (even if I never actually MET them) on these sites and made money from it. And no one has ever tried to take advantage of me or scam me. It is not life changing money, but it’s definitely saved me at times and made me money others by me simply being willing to listen and learn.

    And it’s why I can easily see something as probably Bullshit right from the start. Common sense is a valuable tool in life and can’t be taught. Some need to use it more.
    I guess that makes me fortunate always being able to view and treat casinos as pure entertainment win or lose. More like playing James Bond occasionally always being treated like royalty.

    It never crossed my mind once to go to casinos with wife and friends with the intentions of eventually grinding out some type of hourly wage over time.

    I stumbled into these forums way past the prime of my gambling days (except for poker) and found enjoyment in the stupidity being posted. I try to interject doubt and common sense like you suggest is a valuable tool.

    Not sure why anyone would search down anonymous gambling forums for advice. I understand when the hopeless are looking for any way out, but certainly not a successful business man. How were you even able to find the time in order to make AP’ing worth it. I was lucky if I was able to get 6 hours of sleep in my day.

    Not sure what you meant when you said your anonymous AP friends definitely saved you at times. My opinion is without taking AP life on full time and living in Vegas or close to lots of action, making yourself available 24/7, for whatever might be going on, for however much time a play might last is a full-time commitment.

    Were you randomly traveling to casinos when your business allowed you some time off to scrap up a few extra AP bucks? I understand just because it’s an AP move doesn’t guarantee a win anytime you go. Did you add all your sessions together to eventually gain the math expectations?

    At least I could confirm we agree on this statement you made. "Common sense is a valuable tool in life and can't be taught. Some need to use it more."
    Blackhole, the level of your lunacy knows no bounds. By your logic it's better to lose....because if you win then all you did was scrape up a few AP bucks. Stupid ass logic but hey, to each his own. Your way of gambling is just ass backwards.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  19. #39
    Originally Posted by blackhole;116704]

    I guess that makes me fortunate always being able to view and treat casinos as pure entertainment win or lose.[QUOTE]

    Yes, it does! I say that puts you in the top 1% of the people who visit the casino, it also puts you way ahead of many advantage players who have to show up for work when they often don't want to.


    Originally Posted by blackhole;116704]

    More like playing James Bond occasionally always being treated like royalty.[QUOTE]

    The occasional "James Bond" wins is what creates the temporary illusion. You very well may be treated like reality as long as you understand in reality it is a pay me now or pay me later proposition from a casino perspective. There are no free rides for people who go to the casino for entertainment purposes.


    Originally Posted by blackhole;116704]

    It never crossed my mind once to go to casinos with wife and friends with the intentions of eventually grinding out some type of hourly wage over time.[QUOTE]


    For the most part, AP grinding away methods and having the wife and friends on the same trip is not an ideal situation. More suited for AP wannabee losers.
    Last edited by BoSox; 11-30-2020 at 10:18 PM.

  20. #40
    [QUOTE=BoSox;116716]Originally Posted by blackhole;116704]

    I guess that makes me fortunate always being able to view and treat casinos as pure entertainment win or lose.

    Yes, it does! I say that puts you in the top 1% of the people who visit the casino, it also puts you way ahead of many advantage players who have to show up for work when they often don't want to.
    I think you placing me in the 1% bracket comparing people who visit the casino for entertainment is foolish and just another case of you just trying to make another false not true point while pretending to post known facts. 80% of all casinos gross income is from slot play. Since AP’s know how to win slot money, they certainly couldn’t be part of the 80% casino slot income. It’s the busloads of daily visitors the weekend or week long visitors who just know how to play slots and are having a ball doing it. Most are expecting to lose. The other 20% comes from assorted players. That would be everything between slot players and whales.

    Please stop making a fool of yourself.

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