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Thread: Why are most APs conservative and most poker pros liberal?

  1. #1
    As you guys know, I'm part of both the poker pro and AP community, though I'm more closely aligned with the poker side.

    However, in conversations about politics with both APs and poker pros, along with my observations of their social media, I've come to the following conclusion:

    Most APs are conservative. Most poker pros are liberal.

    I've been trying to figure out the reason for this. Both are individualistic, capitalistic pursuits. Both are using better knowledge and skill to take money from the ploppies -- whether directly or indirectly, many of whom can't afford it.

    I think it's because of the nature of the game. APs are indirectly beating the ploppies (the ploppies lose to the casinos, the APs beat the casinos for some of that money), whereas poker pros are directly taking the money from the ploppies. Thus, APs walk away with zero feelings of guilt (they're beating heartless corporations which seek to extract money from addicted gamblers), whereas poker pros often feel bad that they are beating others who don't really have a shot.

    This causes poker pros to skew liberal, because they (erroneously) feel that voting Democrat and supporting leftist causes will negate the societal harm they're doing by taking money from gambling-addicted ploppies.

    APs, on the other hand, constantly see their careers as a battle between the individual (the AP) and the collective (the casino), and thus the individualistic nature of conservatism appeals to them.

    I doubt that many think about it this deeply, but I believe these are the subconscious forces at play.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  2. #2
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post

    I think it's because of the nature of the game. APs are indirectly beating the ploppies (the ploppies lose to the casinos, the APs beat the casinos for some of that money), whereas poker pros are directly taking the money from the ploppies. Thus, APs walk away with zero feelings of guilt (they're beating heartless corporations which seek to extract money from addicted gamblers), whereas poker pros often feel bad that they are beating others who don't really have a shot.

    This causes poker pros to skew liberal, because they (erroneously) feel that voting Democrat and supporting leftist causes will negate the societal harm they're doing by taking money from gambling-addicted ploppies.

    Dan, it seems like that you are implying that poker pros have consciences, please, they are no different than vampires. If they lean more to the left it is only because they hope that the government will give out more free programs giving ploppies more opportunities to head to the casino.

  3. #3
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Dan, it seems like that you are implying that poker pros have consciences, please, they are no different than vampires. If they lean more to the left it is only because they hope that the government will give out more free programs giving ploppies more opportunities to head to the casino.
    My favorite one to scoff at is Annie Duke running around barefoot and pregnant.
    MickeyCrimm may know her well as she is from his area and Crystal Palace.
    I used to deal to her suckers as she would sweat their action.
    They paid her to give them advice on how to play after each hand was finished.
    Talk about a literal vampire right in front of me as she was basically on their necks.
    She got into that whole world of selling boot camps.
    Plenty of other scams to talk about in poker but why bother.

  4. #4
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post

    I think it's because of the nature of the game. APs are indirectly beating the ploppies (the ploppies lose to the casinos, the APs beat the casinos for some of that money), whereas poker pros are directly taking the money from the ploppies. Thus, APs walk away with zero feelings of guilt (they're beating heartless corporations which seek to extract money from addicted gamblers), whereas poker pros often feel bad that they are beating others who don't really have a shot.

    This causes poker pros to skew liberal, because they (erroneously) feel that voting Democrat and supporting leftist causes will negate the societal harm they're doing by taking money from gambling-addicted ploppies.

    Dan, it seems like that you are implying that poker pros have consciences, please, they are no different than vampires. If they lean more to the left it is only because they hope that the government will give out more free programs giving ploppies more opportunities to head to the casino.
    You must have misunderstood my post.

    I am a conservative, despite being a poker pro. I've been a conservative ever since I was 12 years old.

    I find that poker pros who are liberal tend to be hypocrites -- of the limousine liberal variety. They want to take money from ploppies and live the good life, while patting themselves on the back with the belief that they're still great people. Voting Democrat allows them to do that.

    I always find it curious when people in a completely capitalist game, where only the best survive, want anti-capitalist policies for everything else in life.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  5. #5
    Originally Posted by monet View Post
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Dan, it seems like that you are implying that poker pros have consciences, please, they are no different than vampires. If they lean more to the left it is only because they hope that the government will give out more free programs giving ploppies more opportunities to head to the casino.
    My favorite one to scoff at is Annie Duke running around barefoot and pregnant.
    MickeyCrimm may know her well as she is from his area and Crystal Palace.
    I used to deal to her suckers as she would sweat their action.
    They paid her to give them advice on how to play after each hand was finished.
    Talk about a literal vampire right in front of me as she was basically on their necks.
    She got into that whole world of selling boot camps.
    Plenty of other scams to talk about in poker but why bother.
    Annie was a reprehensible person who has since quit poker, and now makes money on the public speaking circuit.

    She was involved in two major poker scandals. First, she was a part-owner of UB, which cheated customers TWICE, and was shamefully promoting them up until the very end.

    Second, she ran a poker tournament league called "Epic Poker League", which promised a million dollar freeroll tournament to the top 27 players that year, as determined by points earned. The company shut down shortly before that million dollar freeroll was to take place, and everyone got stiffed. But Annie had no problem keeping her $400k salary for the whole thing.

    Awful woman. She's also very unpleasant at the table, which I got to experience personally.

    She dated actor Joe Reitman after he and Shannon Elizabeth split up. Shannon was 31 at the time and still hot. Reitman moving on to Annie might be one of the biggest downgrades in human history. (Shannon actually still looks very good for her age, now 47, by the way.)
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  6. #6
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    You must have misunderstood my post.

    I am a conservative, despite being a poker pro. I've been a conservative ever since I was 12 years old.

    I find that poker pros who are liberal tend to be hypocrites -- of the limousine liberal variety. They want to take money from ploppies and live the good life, while patting themselves on the back with the belief that they're still great people. Voting Democrat allows them to do that.

    I always find it curious when people in a completely capitalist game, where only the best survive, want anti-capitalist policies for everything else in life.
    Are you kidding?
    Most of them and most people don't know what they want.
    Most of it is Bullshit and most of us are dead in the center because it is impossible to live in America and not be corrupted.
    The whole thing is just an Ego Stroke-Fest.
    People want to belong and have a feeling of belonging to a group.
    They choose a side and fight to the death because they gain approval from their so called friends or party members.
    In the end everything boils down to money and how to accumulate more of it.
    In the end most of us are a product of our environment.
    We are the Product and we are being Conditioned.

    I'm Conservative/Republican as well but I do plenty of things in my life that are contradictory to the ideology.
    Hopefully, Yahweh will forgive and save us all.
    He is One you know!?
    Even Pentecostal Christians can sing this song.
    Although, now I think they prefer to be called "Word of Faith Christians" which is a complete scam.
    Catchy Song though... makes you want to dance and break plates or is that a Greek thing?

    Are you allowed to gamble on the NBA or the MLB on the Sabbath??
    I'm sure God doesn't mind that infraction these days.

    Last edited by monet; 02-24-2021 at 09:55 AM.

  7. #7
    Originally Posted by monet
    Annie Duke...They paid her to give them advice on how to play after each hand was finished.
    Wrong! Ding ding ding!

    The only time a man should give a woman money is for sex.

    --- Leykis 101
    What, Me Worry?

  8. #8
    Joan Rivers always had nice things to say about Annie Duke.

  9. #9
    Because most poker “pros” are frauds and/or scammers?

    Anyways, you’re the boss man, but did you consider putting this in the politics subforum?

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by mcap View Post
    Because most poker “pros” are frauds and/or scammers?

    Anyways, you’re the boss man, but did you consider putting this in the politics subforum?
    This post will soon be deleted as if it never happened.

  11. #11
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post

    I think it's because of the nature of the game. APs are indirectly beating the ploppies (the ploppies lose to the casinos, the APs beat the casinos for some of that money), whereas poker pros are directly taking the money from the ploppies. Thus, APs walk away with zero feelings of guilt (they're beating heartless corporations which seek to extract money from addicted gamblers), whereas poker pros often feel bad that they are beating others who don't really have a shot.

    This causes poker pros to skew liberal, because they (erroneously) feel that voting Democrat and supporting leftist causes will negate the societal harm they're doing by taking money from gambling-addicted ploppies.

    Dan, it seems like that you are implying that poker pros have consciences, please, they are no different than vampires. If they lean more to the left it is only because they hope that the government will give out more free programs giving ploppies more opportunities to head to the casino.
    You must have misunderstood my post.

    I am a conservative, despite being a poker pro. I've been a conservative ever since I was 12 years old.

    I find that poker pros who are liberal tend to be hypocrites -- of the limousine liberal variety. They want to take money from ploppies and live the good life, while patting themselves on the back with the belief that they're still great people. Voting Democrat allows them to do that.

    I always find it curious when people in a completely capitalist game, where only the best survive, want anti-capitalist policies for everything else in life.
    Well so far we have three conservatives in the thread and I agree with you about some of the hypocrisy that the left exhibits evidentially including some left-leaning poker pros. For instance, the left is all for open borders, okay that is their choice but they are also pro raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour. Where is the logic in all of this crap?

  12. #12
    The same question elsewhere. (Some poster called, Madcap.)

    https://www.sportsbookreview.com/for...e-liberal.html

    It has to have something to do with level of education. Look at the way Monet, Axelwolf, and Crimm write. The "I seen ..." stuff. Look how long it took Box to figure out how to use the quotations here. Moreover, it seems that the only way they can deal with things, the facts, is to stick their heads in the sand, and, clown, etc, around.

    I imagine that most so-called AP's are failed poker players. Trump was into the usual cult thing, to do with one's problems, supposedly, all caused by the outside "world". As if isolating from some outside "world" can make one's own "world" pure, and, then, of course, purely good.

    Attention span is another issue.
    Every one /everyone knows it all; yet, no thing /nothing is truly known by any one /anyone. Similarly, the suckers think that they win, but, the house always wins, unless to hand out an even worse beating.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsa6ojQcYXQ

    Garnabby + OppsIdidItAgain + ThomasClines (or TomasHClines) + The Grim Reaper + LMR + OneHitWonder (or 1HitWonder, 1Hit1der) + Bill Yung ---> GOTTLOB1, or GOTTLOB = Praise to God!

    Blog at https://garnabby.blogspot.com/

  13. #13
    I recall the same problem in Germany not too long ago.
    Two Party System in constant deadlock.
    A third party rises up and eventually destroys the other two.
    That wasn't good enough so they made a deal with Russia to invade Poland.
    After they got Poland they backstabbed Russia and decided to shoot for world domination.
    Damn this sounds just like my Civ IV, Civ V and Civ VI video game.

  14. #14
    Originally Posted by monet View Post
    I recall the same problem in Germany not too long ago.
    WWII was a close thing for the Allies.

    Had Hitler not invaded Russia, and had he allowed his generals to direct the course of the war I suspect we'd all be speaking German today.

    Ja wohl!
    What, Me Worry?

  15. #15
    Originally Posted by MisterV View Post
    Originally Posted by monet View Post
    I recall the same problem in Germany not too long ago.
    WWII was a close thing for the Allies.

    Had Hitler not invaded Russia, and had he allowed his generals to direct the course of the war I suspect we'd all be speaking German today.

    Ja wohl!
    Unless you live in Europe not likely. There was zero possibility ever of a land invasion of the US. MAYBE they might have tried to take Hawaii for Japan but even that is pretty farfetched.

    It really wasn't winnable for the Axis at all with America involved. The only hope for Axis victory is if America stays completely neutral (no lend lease). So it wasn't close at all.

    Also had Hitler not invaded Russia, Stalin would have invaded Germany. Their "alliance of convenience" was never going to last.

  16. #16
    OK, I'll play.

    Germany designed and built a bomber that could and some claim did in fact did fly across the Atlantic to the USA and then return: the Junkers JU 390; this was a very heavy bomber capable of delivering any type of bomb.

    see:

    Also consider the progress Germany made with other "super weapons" such as V-1, V-2 and jets; had Hitler not been impatient, had they taken the time to develop these weapons to the next level and in sufficient quantity I believe they'd have won.

    All Germany needed to do was to buy time.

    So far as "it really wasn't winnable for the Axis at all with America involved," please keep in mind that the Nazis were very close to developing their version of the atomic bomb; had WWII not been a two front war for the USA such that our only enemy was Japan, odds are we would not have felt the compelling need to develop atomic weapons, leaving the way open for Germany to develop them first.

    I can easily envision a scenario where the Nazis obliterated NYC in nuclear fire.

    As for Russia: no, Stalin would not have invaded Germany initially, and this lag time would allow the Krauts time to hone their super weapons.

    We'll never know, of course: this is the stuff that armchair quarterbacks argue endlessly about.
    Last edited by MisterV; 02-24-2021 at 11:40 AM.
    What, Me Worry?

  17. #17
    Being a successful AP takes a different skillset. In poker at higher levels you have to take in numerous factors to get an edge over your opponents. How do they see poker? How does that fit into the frequency of what they're doing? Look at a man for 10 seconds and make a read. Do the book math and make your decision.

    With APs it is more like.. "Is this # above some threshold, if so then sit down and pump it full of $$ until mhb hits". Or whatever..

    I'm not particularly good at poker vs randoms. I'd rather play at the highest level where I am comfortable with a game infested with pros. Partially because I don't rely on gambling for income, but mostly I prefer the company of winners.

    AP stuff is pure math. If you can't do the math you can be taught and/or learn. There are few "judgement calls". Simplistic systems work on any game.

    I don't think many poker players that you know who win at higher levels actually feel bad for people losing money to them. This seems like a totally false construct. Everyone realizes "If not me, then someone else". Also, when you get high enough you rarely come across people who can't afford what they're going to lose. They show up with their 5k or whatever, shovel it in and move on in life. Although for some it adds up.

    Another difference is poker is a social game. APing is a lone wolf thing unless you crew up.

    The idea that APs take money from ploppies seems wrong. APs see it as taking money from the casino, which is far more accurate.

    All this seems far more likely to have something to do with the actual answer than some guilt coping mechanism.. seriously bro.
    It is official. Redietz will never be on Dan Druff's podcast. "too much integrity"

  18. #18
    Let's not even get into the cheating in poker which is easy and wide spread enough.
    But if you have a team of 3 or 4 sharp players all playing on the same bankroll and playing the game straight they will eat the table alive.

  19. #19
    Originally Posted by monet View Post
    Let's not even get into the cheating in poker which is easy and wide spread enough.
    But if you have a team of 3 or 4 sharp players all playing on the same bankroll and playing the game straight they will eat the table alive.
    Isn't "Lie, cheat, steal" the liberals motto?

  20. #20
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post

    I think it's because of the nature of the game. APs are indirectly beating the ploppies (the ploppies lose to the casinos, the APs beat the casinos for some of that money), whereas poker pros are directly taking the money from the ploppies. Thus, APs walk away with zero feelings of guilt (they're beating heartless corporations which seek to extract money from addicted gamblers), whereas poker pros often feel bad that they are beating others who don't really have a shot.

    This causes poker pros to skew liberal, because they (erroneously) feel that voting Democrat and supporting leftist causes will negate the societal harm they're doing by taking money from gambling-addicted ploppies.

    Dan, it seems like that you are implying that poker pros have consciences, please, they are no different than vampires. If they lean more to the left it is only because they hope that the government will give out more free programs giving ploppies more opportunities to head to the casino.
    You must have misunderstood my post.

    I am a conservative, despite being a poker pro. I've been a conservative ever since I was 12 years old.

    I find that poker pros who are liberal tend to be hypocrites -- of the limousine liberal variety. They want to take money from ploppies and live the good life, while patting themselves on the back with the belief that they're still great people. Voting Democrat allows them to do that.

    I always find it curious when people in a completely capitalist game, where only the best survive, want anti-capitalist policies for everything else in life.

    Well, I'll point to the obvious reasons.

    Most AP's are not blackjack players, so lets start from there. They are primarily non-team folks who use self-contained expertise and discipline to literally grind out a living hour to hour, day to day. They work mostly in isolation versus the casino, so not much reliance on anyone else. This fosters the illusion of "your fate is in your hands" mentality, at least until they hit a mega-variance stretch. Most of their lives are spent in the "self-made man" mode. The individual hands of vp or machine play have variance, but usually not enough to create stretches where doing all of the right things for a year is going to lead to a negative year. Blackjack players, because they spread, and because they are backed off regularly, probably feel more of the "my fate is not entirely in my hands" gestalt in which they operate.

    Further along the line are poker players. Now you get all of this crap about "everybody gets the same hands lifetime, so it all comes down to skill," but realistically, that's not true if you're playing no limit hold 'em or play in tournaments. You can kind of keep the "my fate is in my own hands" gestalt if you're always playing limit. But once you're playing no limit or relying on tournament play for income, then a handful of actual hands determine your week or your month or your year. And you can do literally everything right all the time ((as Chris Ferguson said, "I can be beaten, but I can't be outplayed") and walk away with a losing month or a losing year. So your fate in those few "terror" hands amidst the boredom determines your financial fate. It's the nature of a game with no limit rules, the continual possibility of collusion, and escalating tournament stakes. Players "do the right thing" all the time and find themselves losing.

    The lesson, then, is that your fate is NOT in your own hands a great deal of the time, and all the self-made excellence in the world guarantees nothing.

    And that is where conservatives and progressives part ways -- because conservatives believe in the myth that they are where they deserve to be on merit, and they give less weight to context. Progressives understand that context dictates more than the culture cares to admit. Poker players are always slammed in the face with context, because perfect play never yields perfect results.

    For the record, if you examine the social science literature, you will find that human beings almost always OVERestimate the control they they have in all kinds of situations. We are hard wired to believe we have control of things when we do not.

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