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Thread: Hahahha it fucking happened again

  1. #41
    Originally Posted by ZenKinG View Post
    And this last paragraph is why you and BoSox don't actually understand what I'm doing. You guys don't understand what's really behind what I'm doing or what it does to the win rate, which explains your ignorance and failure to average my win rate because you don't know how to actually sim it or why the win rate is what it is so you can't grasp the concept. To you guys it's just 'wonging out' but not realizing what else is going on that effects the win rate.
    YOU are going to talk to me about my ignorance about winrates involving aggressively exiting negative counts? THIS is what I do and have done since I moved to Vegas!!! And I publicly share that everywhere I post.

    Now I don't care that you have adoped that same technique and philosiphy that this is a how you should play Vegas because this opportunity is something available only here (for the most part). I post things that I do and my experiences hoping that other can benefit from them. And if someone reads something that I do, whether it be the agressive exit of negative counts, chip inventory to allow quick and hopefully unannounced entry into a game, or very samll buy-ins when forced to buy in, often dismissed as no threat, or any other of a number of things I have shared I am happy, literally thrilled if others odopt something and benefit from it.

    And I don't want or need credit because likely there were many players doing each and everyone of these things before me. As a matter of fact, I can name different players that I learned most of what I do from. But for you to try to take credit that these are your things and you are doing things no one else has ever done, is asinine. Grow the fuck up! You are not the greatest of all time! You are not unique. That is T3 type bullshit.

    What you are is someomne playing the game in Vegas using techniques specific to opportunities available in Vegas to win. Why isn't THAT good enough for you? Why are you trying to take credit for things players employed probably before you and I started playing and present yourself as the greatest of all time? Are you that insecure?
    Dan Druff: "there's no question that MDawg has been an obnoxious braggart, and has rubbed a ton of people the wrong way. There's something missing from his stories. Either they're fabricated, grossly exaggerated, or largely incomplete".

  2. #42
    And something else. for all that you have "adopted" about playing Vegas from me, the one thing that you have refused to consider is not spreading to 2 hands.

    Do you think I would not like to spread to 2 hands? It reduces swings and variance. But it is not well tolerated here in Vegas. I don't know why it is viewed differently here than other places....BUT IT IS!

    So instead you continue to spread to 2 hands, something not well tolerated and that draws attention, and then you complain about the heat, that they won't let you play or disparage me by calling me a fraud saying I couldn't get away with what I do at the local places. No not spreading to 2 hands. That is not tolerated so I don't do it. You do it, get heat or backoffs and then say well no one can acheive some longevity at these places. the key is to do what is tolerated and what is in the casinos comfort level, not do what YOu want and then complain that you are getting heat or they won't let you play.

    But keep spreading to 2 hands and keep telling us about the heat or how they won't let you play and wondering why others can.

    GOAT, my ass.
    Dan Druff: "there's no question that MDawg has been an obnoxious braggart, and has rubbed a ton of people the wrong way. There's something missing from his stories. Either they're fabricated, grossly exaggerated, or largely incomplete".

  3. #43
    Originally Posted by ZenKinG View Post
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    .

    By the way doing the wong out part only (agressive exit) is going to increase your win rate and EV because you are escaping all the negative counts, but not 2-3 times EV or expectation, maybe 25-30%. Even when you add in jumping directly to a positive count, you increase by only 50% or so, because of the limitations with employing this technique. But again, whatever. Fascinating to read the GOAT though. Some day, I hope to be just like him (less the crazy parts)
    And this last paragraph is why you and BoSox don't actually understand what I'm doing. You guys don't understand what's really behind what I'm doing or what it does to the win rate, which explains your ignorance and failure to average my win rate because you don't know how to actually sim it or why the win rate is what it is so you can't grasp the concept or how to fully take advantage of it. To you guys it's just 'wonging out' but not realizing what else is going on that effects the win rate.

    So 150 an hour is 2-3x my EV by doing what I'm doing? What do you think my original hourly is heads up? My backcounting win rate was 45 an hour, but when did I say I only backcount anymore? The more you talk the more you expose yourself about your career. Just stay average and let the best to ever do it get cheated every holiday weekend and still outperform everyone.

    Been hearing it's a miracle run and over my EV at the 100 hour mark, 200 hour mark, 300 hour mark, 400 hour mark, and now the 500 hour mark. Guess what? The hourly has been in the same 130-170 range since the 200 hour mark. That's exactly why I made the move to a new apartment around the 250 hour mark because I knew I wasn't just running well and my new play style had merits to it. Why did I know this? Because Ive had one losing streak over 200 hours in my whole career and one winning streak over 300 hours and the 300 hour win streak I gave everything back right away but it quickly rebounded to the same hourly I had at the 300 hour mark. In a rounds perspective it's always around the 15-20k round mark where winning and losing subsides.

    Cut your losses and try learning from me kids. Maybe you too can make 150 an hour in 'shitty shoe games' playing 2x200 and 2x250

    I'm glad that 250 hours of play confirmed that you were just not running well with the new style that you play. Enabling yourself to move into a new apartment, did you blow a short circuit or something? You sure throw plenty of crap out there that would be quickly dismissed by someone in the know. I do wish you well but I hope you enjoy that new pad while you can.

  4. #44
    You're making less than 1 bet per hour? You suck!

  5. #45
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    You're making less than 1 bet per hour? You suck!
    He is card counting, jerkoff.

    Everything isn't about you and hole-carding.

    Another jackoff that has the need to constantly tell everyone how much better he is than everyone else.
    Dan Druff: "there's no question that MDawg has been an obnoxious braggart, and has rubbed a ton of people the wrong way. There's something missing from his stories. Either they're fabricated, grossly exaggerated, or largely incomplete".

  6. #46
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    You're making less than 1 bet per hour? You suck!
    He is card counting, jerkoff.

    Everything isn't about you and hole-carding.

    Another jackoff that has the need to constantly tell everyone how much better he is than everyone else.
    If you aren't making AT LEAST 1.5-2 bets per hours, you're a shitty card counter. And I'm talking about actual hours making bets. Not scouting or backcounting.

  7. #47
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    If you aren't making AT LEAST 1.5-2 bets per hours, you're a shitty card counter. And I'm talking about actual hours making bets. Not scouting or backcounting.
    What "bets per hour"? Minimum wager? Average bet? Max bet?

    And what exactly is an hour. A slow moving game with sidebets can be 30-40 rounds per hour. Heads up with a decent dealer, 300 or more. To make that uniform, we use 100 rounds as a measurement, although few players actually get 100 rounds per hour.

    So a person spreading say $25-$400 should be making $600-$800 an hour or per 100 rounds from card counting playing shoe games? (I mean THAT is what is being discussed)
    Dan Druff: "there's no question that MDawg has been an obnoxious braggart, and has rubbed a ton of people the wrong way. There's something missing from his stories. Either they're fabricated, grossly exaggerated, or largely incomplete".

  8. #48
    The thing about you hole-carders or players using other so called advanced plays is they find a play and play for 30 minutes making $500 and like to spout off about making $1000 per hour, when the fact is they scouted that game for hours and spent time traveling to it and waiting for just the right condition, all told 6-8 hours, but they don't count any of that.....only the hour (or in this example 30 minutes) that they played.

    Count all the REAL time spent on the play and they aren't doing much better than a decent card counter. But it won't stop them from telling you how special they are, right jbjb?
    Dan Druff: "there's no question that MDawg has been an obnoxious braggart, and has rubbed a ton of people the wrong way. There's something missing from his stories. Either they're fabricated, grossly exaggerated, or largely incomplete".

  9. #49
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    You're making less than 1 bet per hour? You suck!
    What the hell is wrong with that? Especially at high stakes. Let's put this into perspective, in some casinos, the house is more than willing to accept a .32 percent house advantage against a perfect "rare" basic strategist as well as comp them dinners and rooms, and all those small house edges pay their fucken bills. I am perfectly satisfied with the edges that I receive. Besides I am not competing against other AP's.

  10. #50
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    The thing about you hole-carders or players using other so called advanced plays is they find a play and play for 30 minutes making $500 and like to spout off about making $1000 per hour, when the fact is they scouted that game for hours and spent time traveling to it and waiting for just the right condition, all told 6-8 hours, but they don't count any of that.....only the hour (or in this example 30 minutes) that they played.

    Count all the REAL time spent on the play and they aren't doing much better than a decent card counter. But it won't stop them from telling you how special they are, right jbjb?
    In the early 2000's, the LVHCM took over $500k in a weekend from downtown casinos. At the time there were five different professional hole-card teams working (that I know about). I have personally seen wagers over $10,000 and higher in hole-carding opportunities multiple times all over the planet.

    While card counting will earn you a modest living if you are very good at it, there is simply no comparison in win-rates between hole-carding & CC, even taking into account scouting time.


  11. #51
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    You're making less than 1 bet per hour? You suck!
    What the hell is wrong with that? Especially at high stakes. Let's put this into perspective, in some casinos, the house is more than willing to accept a .32 percent house advantage against a perfect "rare" basic strategist as well as comp them dinners and rooms, and all those small house edges pay their fucken bills. I am perfectly satisfied with the edges that I receive. Besides I am not competing against other AP's.
    There is nothing wrong with that. That is the way card counting works, which is what this thread is about.

    Unfortunately jbjb can't help always weighing in and telling everyone how much better and how much above card counting he and his team play is.
    Dan Druff: "there's no question that MDawg has been an obnoxious braggart, and has rubbed a ton of people the wrong way. There's something missing from his stories. Either they're fabricated, grossly exaggerated, or largely incomplete".

  12. #52
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    You're making less than 1 bet per hour? You suck!
    What the hell is wrong with that? Especially at high stakes. Let's put this into perspective, in some casinos, the house is more than willing to accept a .32 percent house advantage against a perfect "rare" basic strategist as well as comp them dinners and rooms, and all those small house edges pay their fucken bills. I am perfectly satisfied with the edges that I receive. Besides I am not competing against other AP's.
    Nothing wrong with it. He should be making more, especially for someone wonging into positive shoes.

  13. #53
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    You're making less than 1 bet per hour? You suck!
    What the hell is wrong with that? Especially at high stakes. Let's put this into perspective, in some casinos, the house is more than willing to accept a .32 percent house advantage against a perfect "rare" basic strategist as well as comp them dinners and rooms, and all those small house edges pay their fucken bills. I am perfectly satisfied with the edges that I receive. Besides I am not competing against other AP's.
    There is nothing wrong with that. That is the way card counting works, which is what this thread is about.

    Unfortunately jbjb can't help always weighing in and telling everyone how much better and how much above card counting he and his team play is.
    I'm saying as a counter, he sucks at it. There are many, and much better counters out there.

  14. #54
    Hell, slot AP's are doing a better hourly with the variance and needed large bankroll.

  15. #55
    Yea jbjb tell them to show you their records. Everyone's a millionaire online and so called pro, but once you get know them, they all apparently have another job, or do blackjack 'part time' or do slots or some other form of AP. They run seminars and go on podcasts also for their 5 minutes of fame(shame) and promote whatever they're their to promote, usually BJA. I wonder why. Why would anyone keep a normal job if they were that great at blackjack. Why ever move on to other forms of AP when you've made X amount counting. They'll never answer that. Like I've said many times, you guys can be anyone you want to be online and the real pros or shall I say pro(singular) will keep profiting off retards and frauds like you.

    As for KJ, his reading comprehension shows everytime he posts cause he clearly can't read. Who's credit am I taking for my own? I'm not playing the same way you are. Aggressively wonging out is just half of what I do. You and everyone else doesn't know how to use the other half to your benefit to manipulate the shoe games to be nearly equivalent to a 75% DD game if not better depending on the pen of the shoe game. That's all I'll say. Really is a shame no one listens to the king. Not my problem. Pce out

  16. #56
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    I'm saying as a counter, he sucks at it. There are many, and much better counters out there.
    I don't disagree, although in fairness, have never witnessed his play. I can only go by the stuff he posts and by that...NOT the greatest counter ever.

    But the thing is, you (jbjb) said a counter should make 1.5-2 x bet? I asked you to define what bet you are talking about because if it is max bet for me, that would be $600-$800 and hour ($25- $400 spread), and that is not the way card counting works.
    Dan Druff: "there's no question that MDawg has been an obnoxious braggart, and has rubbed a ton of people the wrong way. There's something missing from his stories. Either they're fabricated, grossly exaggerated, or largely incomplete".

  17. #57
    Originally Posted by ZenKinG View Post
    That's all I'll say. Really is a shame no one listens to the king. Not my problem. Pce out
    Yeah, YOU are the best brother. It's just kind of weird that the best is here posting every few weeks about how he is always being cheated. Chinese cards and all kind of conspiracy nonsense.
    Dan Druff: "there's no question that MDawg has been an obnoxious braggart, and has rubbed a ton of people the wrong way. There's something missing from his stories. Either they're fabricated, grossly exaggerated, or largely incomplete".

  18. #58
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    Hell, slot AP's are doing a better hourly with the variance and needed large bankroll.
    Under current conditions good slot AP's are making at least 200K per year. It's the best I've ever seen it. New games keep coming. There have been several in the past year.

    And bankroll? Theres a big difference in what you need working 10% edges rather than 1% edges. You can keep feeding your win into mutual funds or whatever while carrying just 10K around to put down machine plays. 10K is actually overkill.

    PS: There's no multi-carding or any kind of grey areas involved. It's just straight up legitimate strategy.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  19. #59
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    Hell, slot AP's are doing a better hourly with the variance and needed large bankroll.
    Under current conditions good slot AP's are making at least 200K per year. It's the best I've ever seen it. New games keep coming. There have been several in the past year.

    And bankroll? Theres a big difference in what you need working 10% edges rather than 1% edges. You can keep feeding your win into mutual funds or whatever while carrying just 10K around to put down machine plays. 10K is actually overkill.

    PS: There's no multi-carding or any kind of grey areas involved. It's just straight up legitimate strategy.
    Five to ten years ago there were a bunch of us creating slots who understood advantage play. We would double check with each other if we thought a slot could be exploited. Many of these still made it to market, but at least we did our due-diligence. It takes a slot mathematician who is schooled in advantage play to understand that there may be an issue with their design. I seriously doubt anyone is doing these double checks any more -- much of the work of doing slot math and creating new slots is now automated. I love to hear stories of these machines being beaten. Good for you!

  20. #60
    Ok, let's address a few things here. No I don't have a reading comprehension problem. During the daytime hours if there is a discussion I have interest in, I tend to be reading and responding on my phone while I am out and about. Sometimes getting in and out of the car at casinos. On a day like today that I did not visit casinos just out and about doing things. So yeah, as I am scanning posts on my phone, I may miss something or misinterpret something. My apologies for that. Maybe I should wait until I am home sitting at the computer at full attention.

    So it looks like, Zenkings great thing that no one else can do, is wonging in and out of games. Wonging into positive counts and out of negative counts. Certainly nothing new or groundbreaking about this. Kind of 1990's. It was a good strategy when Stanford Wong came up with it, or at least made it well known and it works today for certain conditions and situations. But in my opinion that situation isn't a player playing a fixed location and set of casinos.

    It is not going to be long before a player backcounting the same casinos, same pit, ect, backcounting and jumping into good counts is noticed. No real longevity to that. Maybe for a player that travels around a lot to different locations. But for players like myself and Zenking playing a fixed location, I don't see much longevity for this as your main method of play. Once in a while ok. If I happen to be walking through the game area and see a game with a lot of small cards on felt, I will jump in, but not as a regular thing. A player just standing around backcounting IS noticed by both pit and other players.

    Now wonging out is a better starategy as far as not drawing attention. Every player ends his session at some point, so just make that point when the count goes south. When I jump from a negative count, I will either jump to a new game just starting fresh off the shuffle (neutral count) or as I have mentioned a number of times, directly to a positive count IF I have been able to track a second table. This is much more natural (and draws less attention) than standing there backcounting.

    But anyway if it is working for Zenking, power to him. Just hard to qualify it as working when he is always talking about having draw attention and drawing heat and backoffs. AND there is nothing about this old style that would make one the greatest or anything. That is the kind of thing that leads to short careers. Players that are playing a fixed location and rotation are usually in it for the opposite, longevity.
    Last edited by kewlJ; 06-05-2021 at 04:38 PM.
    Dan Druff: "there's no question that MDawg has been an obnoxious braggart, and has rubbed a ton of people the wrong way. There's something missing from his stories. Either they're fabricated, grossly exaggerated, or largely incomplete".

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