Contributing to Forum ??

[MaxPen]

Keystone requested that I contribute to the forum and I think MaxPen approved this post.
After a 2 week hiatus and 1 week failed negotiation with a professional I decided to try again.
The plan is back to building a Mud Pan.
Since I never done it before I am going to try to build a pre-slope first to give myself a little practice with the dry pack.
So below are a couple of pictures of my total hack job that I completed in about 10 hours of work.
I turned my garage into a woodshop creating plenty of sawdust with my Piece of Shit, Chink Power Tools.
I bought a 10 inch rough in toilet, just incase, since it looks like my waste pipe will be 11 inches from the finished wall.

I was going to pay an experienced renovator $50 per hour to help me but he flaked out.
I didn't like the way he wanted to build the pan and use permanent Shark-Bite Fittings behind the wall.
From my research I'm told the O-Rings can fail causing leaks.
They used Steel Crimp Rings when the house was built and I haven't seen any problems with those yet.
I'm still a bit undecided on if I should use copper or steel rings or perhaps the steel clamps.
I can't justify the cost of the specific tool to use Uponor fittings although I believe those are the best choice for PEX.

I bought 8 boxes of 12x24 Polished Porcelain Tile.
I also bought two inch Hexagon Tile Sheets for the floor but after rethinking I'm going to return those and get squares as I think they are easier to cut for the layout.
I bought Mapei 27 Silver FlexColor CQ Grout since I'm told that white will get more dirty and black will fade color fast.
I almost bought the KeraPoxy since it claims to be more waterproof but I'm told its harder to work with and if you have to bust it out its much more difficult.
Still learning so probably have to take things back for exchange anyways.

The next step is to decide on the PEX A or B, Fittings (Plastic or Bronze).
Buy the Clamp Tool, cut the PEX, install the elbows and such and secure the valve to the studs.
It's hard enough to figure out what style screws and sizes to use for me lol.
Trying to figure out the exact measurements of roughing in the shower valve and pipes is a bit of a nightmare.
I'm way out of my depth.
Should be a real kick when I have to actually run thinset, cut and place tile on the floor let alone the walls.
However first I get to deal with walling in some 3x6's and trying to build a shower bed and waterproof things while I build a front wall shower bench.
Can't wait for it all to leak and mold up so I have to spend 20 grand tearing it out and rebuilding it.
Fuck Youtube and the information age where they make you believe you can actually do this sort of thing.

I haven't done much either. Spent a day redoing stuff for a double sink, installing some recessed lights, replacement fan, relocating outlet and replacing switches, and patching stuff up.

Plan on getting into the waterproofing and tile setting soon. Should have a day coming up.

I used shark bites. They are approved for behind wall application and underground. They have been around a long time. Plus I was using the shutoffs anyway. I live in a condo. There is no individual unit shut off. I don't like dealing with association. So I just shut the building down for a minute or two and slap them bitches on without anyone being the wiser....lol
ppl

[monet]

I haven't done much either. Spent a day redoing stuff for a double sink, installing some recessed lights, replacement fan, relocating outlet and replacing switches, and patching stuff up.

Plan on getting into the waterproofing and tile setting soon. Should have a day coming up.

I used shark bites. They are approved for behind wall application and underground. They have been around a long time. Plus I was using the shutoffs anyway. I live in a condo. There is no individual unit shut off. I don't like dealing with association. So I just shut the building down for a minute or two and slap them bitches on without anyone being the wiser....lol

Thanks for the reply!
You really trust Shark-Bites enough to put behind the wall for 20 to 25 years without worry of a leak?
I'm just worried the O-Ring will fail over time and I will have to bust everything out once again.
Funny thing is I have 7 or 8 Shark Bite Fittings for this install and I could just gamble but after some horror stories online I'm thinking Clamps are not only better but far cheaper.
Although you do spend all the money on the Clamp Tool but I can use that on Bathroom Number Two and use it again when both Showers Fail.

By the way I have all the Mortar Supplies, Dens-Shield Back Board and Cement Board in the Garage just waiting for me to rough in this valve and get rolling lol.
I'm going to plan on tiling the floor up close to the waste pipe and screw the toilet flange into the tile, subfloor and blocking.
That's the plan at least for now.
I think I have a 1/8 inch or less problem with the pipe as it isn't perfectly level.
The way I understand it is that much of a gap shouldn't be a problem.

That's funny that you installed shark bite shut off valves lol.

[MaxPen]

I haven't done much either. Spent a day redoing stuff for a double sink, installing some recessed lights, replacement fan, relocating outlet and replacing switches, and patching stuff up.

Plan on getting into the waterproofing and tile setting soon. Should have a day coming up.

I used shark bites. They are approved for behind wall application and underground. They have been around a long time. Plus I was using the shutoffs anyway. I live in a condo. There is no individual unit shut off. I don't like dealing with association. So I just shut the building down for a minute or two and slap them bitches on without anyone being the wiser....lol

Thanks for the reply!
You really trust Shark-Bites enough to put behind the wall for 20 to 25 years without worry of a leak?
I'm just worried the O-Ring will fail over time and I will have to bust everything out once again.
Funny thing is I have 7 or 8 Shark Bite Fittings for this install and I could just gamble but after some horror stories online I'm thinking Clamps are not only better but far cheaper.
Although you do spend all the money on the Clamp Tool but I can use that on Bathroom Number Two and use it again when both Showers Fail.

By the way I have all the Mortar Supplies, Dens-Shield Back Board and Cement Board in the Garage just waiting for me to rough in this valve and get rolling lol.
I'm going to plan on tiling the floor up close to the waste pipe and screw the toilet flange into the tile, subfloor and blocking.
That's the plan at least for now.
I think I have a 1/8 inch or less problem with the pipe as it isn't perfectly level.
The way I understand it is that much of a gap shouldn't be a problem.

That's funny that you installed shark bit shut off valves lol.

Shark bite problems result from poor installation and damage during installation. I have never had a problem. You can have a problem with anything.

I like my shower faucet around 42" from floor and since I am tall I like the shower head around 80". Wax seal will take care of that pipe for imperfection. Use the type with the cone built in.

I installed the shutoffs and will have access to them. I hate that these places have a shared water line system.

[regnis]

I will never name a trainer, jockey, horse, or partner. Regnis seems to be well educated about horses. If he was involved for 50 years I would hope so. Any person like Regnis could look up everything they wanted with any of the above-mentioned names. What I’m sure will eventually come up are derogatory comments and I need to protect everyone that was involved with me alleged or not. No Names.

First of all, I owned 3 horses alone and was partners with 2 other guys on one really good one. I had two different trainers in my short career.

My horses were always stabled in Belmont New York (one of the larger tracks) even in the winter. I was involved from mid-80’s to early-90’s. Each horse cost around $2,000.00 dollars per month. When I left it was up to at least $3,000.00 dollars each per month. Don’t know todays cost but I’m sure it’s much more. That fee was just for the staple and trainer’s fees. Like Regnis said everything, and I mean everything or anything the horse needs, or eats, vets, silks, etc. etc. etc. is added on. When you shipped them to race at Aqueduct N.Y. in the winter you paid for that also. You would always expect another $500.00 to $1,000.00 dollars extra on your monthly bill for all of them combined for add-ons. I never paid entry fees. Not that type quality horses.

I always had 3 horses. By the time I got out they were not the same 3 I started with. If one got claimed, my trainer and I would eventually claim another one or buy one privately. So, when I did get out at that time one of the horses cost $15K sold privately for $11K, another cost $18K sold privately $16K, another cost $20K sold privately for $11K. The allowance horse I partner with when we finally did sell, we sold privately for $50K.

Other than the allowance horse the other three were considered in the basement claiming type horses for Belmont. The quality of horse can get much worse at many other tracks like Rockingham. In the winter most of the real good horses will ship to other tracks like Florida. That’s when my horses were in many races at Aqueduct. The cards in the winter are usually loaded with shit quality horses. We could usually meet entry requirements for each of them like once every two weeks. Some times every week. When the good ones came back, we had to wait to find a spot for them where they would be eligible and competitive.

Purses were all over the place. I’d say could be from $25K to $45K (basement bracket) depending on the race being offered. First got 60% second got 20% forgot the rest but I think they paid up to 5th. If you came in the money you had to pay 10% to your trainer and 10% to the jockey on any winnings. You also had to pay the jockey $100.00 dollars just to ride your horse win or lose. Some were even more. Remember this was mid 1980’s. Also, if you won you always took care of the barn workers with tips. It’s pretty much a lose, lose situation unless of course you won big purses or often.

Without cashing out on the occasional big pay offs which I’ll get into later I don’t think I would have lasted a year.

Claiming horses don’t go to auction. They either get claimed, sold privately, or die.

I’m reading Missions post trying to answers some questions. Feel like I’m all over the place. The claiming horse game needs more explaining. I had enough for tonight. Really tired. Get to more tomorrow night and over the weekend.

The clocker in the morning records the name of the horse identified by lip tattoos if needed, what type of training is being done, and the time the horse did whatever in. This information gets posted in Racing Forums to help handicappers figure how a horse is doing. Certain trainers are close with the timer and he’ll print a fake time to throw handicappers off. Of course, he’s in on it. It gets much worse than that. They will even post the name of one of the trainers better horses to hide how well a cheaper horse is doing getting tuned up for a pay day.

I was hoping for names just because I probably knew the people and horses involved, but I understand your choice not to disclose.
I have worn many hats in the racing world. I started as a runner, moved up to handicapper, then to representing horsemen. For several years, I put together racing syndications for the budget conscious to get into ownership. For that, I had to become even more knowledgeable about breeding than I already was when breeding was just an interest or hobby for me. I put together all of the legal documents (the prospectus) and selected the horses to be bred or purchased. As me and my trainers got older, I wound up handling the estates and/or dispersal sales of several well-known trainers and owners. During all of that time, I was always a player and that will always be my primary interest.

The stories are endless but I will relate one that shows how pervasive the doping was. My friend had a friend that was under house arrest for selling drugs (pot, cocaine, etc.). I knew him for over a decade and he never once left his house (that I knew of). While he was no longer selling recreational drugs, he was still the supplier for numerous trainers of whatever the performance enhancing drug of the day was for horses. I developed a relationship with him not to supply me or my syndications with drugs, but to tell me which trainers he had shipped to and when. You then just bet that stable for the next 20-30 days as most of those horses were juiced.

Blackhole mentions the clockers and again I have to agree. For many years I was at the track every morning clocking the workouts and they were never very accurate. I don't know if the clocker just was sloppy and didn't care, or if it was intentional. probably both. I also befriended the head of track maintenance. We would talk every morning and he would tell me the depths of the tracks that day and what kind of maintenance had been done. For those of you that aren't Black or Key and may not understand this, it was valuable info as you would know in advance whether the track would favor speed or closers that day.

I guess it is obvious that I have a passion for racing!!!

[monet]

Shark bite problems result from poor installation and damage during installation. I have never had a problem. You can have a problem with anything.

I like my shower faucet around 42" from floor and since I am tall I like the shower head around 80". Wax seal will take care of that pipe for imperfection. Use the type with the cone built in.

I installed the shutoffs and will have access to them. I hate that these places have a shared water line system.

You make good points.
I'm thinking the professionals bad mouth the Shark Bites because they are basically putting them out of a job and or business.
My worry is that Shark Bite has to be on the bottom of the list with options.
I suppose you are correct that most failures in any method is user error.
I'll be completely pissed off if I put this all together and one Shark Bite fails in 2 years and I have to rip everything out again.
And I do not believe in Bull-Shit Warranties.
So I won't even bother contacting them if something did fail.

I'm going higher with my valve and shower head too.
My concern is getting the valve installed to the exact depth that it needs to be so that it will be flush with the tile.
After reading and watching a bit more I think I understand the concept now and I can put a backer board piece on the studs to give me a better guide.

[MaxPen]

Shark bite problems result from poor installation and damage during installation. I have never had a problem. You can have a problem with anything.

I like my shower faucet around 42" from floor and since I am tall I like the shower head around 80". Wax seal will take care of that pipe for imperfection. Use the type with the cone built in.

I installed the shutoffs and will have access to them. I hate that these places have a shared water line system.

You make good points.
I'm thinking the professionals bad mouth the Shark Bites because they are basically putting them out of a job and or business.
My worry is that Shark Bite has to be on the bottom of the list with options.
I suppose you are correct that most failures in any method is user error.
I'll be completely pissed off if I put this all together and one Shark Bite fails in 2 years and I have to rip everything out again.
And I do not believe in Bull-Shit Warranties.
So I won't even bother contacting them if something did fail.

I'm going higher with my valve and shower head too.
My concern is getting the valve installed to the exact depth that it needs to be so that it will be flush with the tile.
After reading and watching a bit more I think I understand the concept now and I can put a backer board piece on the studs to give me a better guide.

Some valves you need to be precise. Others not so much. They usually come with a plastic face plate that should be flush with the end result finished surface. Just read the instructions....

I was never a Shark bite fan. They are overpriced but they do have their purpose. They have been around long enough to be proven now. I could have soldered up all my shit but since I was using the shutoffs I just decided to go that way for my application entirely. I will also save back enough tile just because should a repair come up in the future.

[monet]

Some valves you need to be precise. Others not so much. They usually come with a plastic face plate that should be flush with the end result finished surface. Just read the instructions....

I was never a Shark bite fan. They are overpriced but they do have their purpose. They have been around long enough to be proven now. I could have soldered up all my shit but since I was using the shutoffs I just decided to go that way for my application entirely. I will also save back enough tile just because should a repair come up in the future.

Oh that's an idea.
I could install a sort of emergency shut off valve to the shower incase of a leak so I can shut the main supply off to the bathroom only.
I figure if it does leak, I won't know till the subfloor and drywall ceiling is ruined anyways.
I'm getting sold on the Shark Bites more with your experience and other testimonials.
I guess I will gamble and it is much easier just clicking everything together.
The cost of Shark Bites are nothing compared to Labor Costs of Professionals.
My main worry is a leak but I'm guessing my mortar bed and or tile will mold and leak before the Shark Bites do.
I can see how easy all this installation is in my mind but when I go to do it I realize I don't know what the Fuck I am doing.
I did demo the bathroom, cut the subfloor, cut the abs pipe and change two abs drain pipes and install blocking with new subfloor so I'm not completely incompetent.
But I'm the first to admit it is all a total hack job.
I have to give some credit to my wife as well as she has helped with many things so far.

[tableplay]

Possible fixes at Keystone Race Track in suburban Philadelphia

Ok, so that is how he probably chose his VCT handle.

[blackhole]

I’m going to mention a N.Y. trainer’s name here who I know is dead to see if Regnis remembers him. I never did any business with him or even know him. Although, I could pick him out of a line-up. LOL

Do you remember Oscar Barrera? This was the king of the claiming horse games. He could claim a basement horse for like 15K. He would run him in another higher claiming race like for 18K in less than a week and win for fun. He did this time and time again. One of these mules won like 4 in a row after a claim.

Everyone was trying to figure out what cocktail he knew about that no one else did. Even the lab work being done (back then) couldn’t figure out what he was using. I know a trainer who even had spy get hired at his stables. He never saw anything unusual (or kept it to himself.) Plus he ended up staying in Oscar's stables.

We would bet on his clamed horses that ran right back all the time. He must have had a 75%-win record under those conditions. Of course, you would only bet a couple hundred on these type races with Oscar. It was always just a coin flip. Yet, it turned out to be a trusted +EV move. Talk about an AP move. LOL

I do think I remember eventually he was caught by NYRA for something. Don’t think they ever mentioned what he was fined for other than some type of substance. Don’t even remember exactly what happened but really didn’t care since I was in my own horse world.

So, Regnis, did you remember him?

Post more tonight.

[Ozzy]

Possible fixes at Keystone Race Track in suburban Philadelphia

Ok, so that is how he probably chose his VCT handle.

Bingo, considering how detailed his horse industry knowledge is in his last couple of posts. 180 degrees from his regular one liners and wise cracks. Keystone should join in with Regnis and Bhole in the horse discussions.

[BoSox]

Uh-oh, I'm afraid of all the possible consequences that may happen if this horse racing topic continues for much longer. Kewpie doll must be the center of attention, an obsession that must be maintained like any addict. This is a serious situation developing, you cannot go from being the main VCT non-inspiration head case who goes daily from casino to casino floating in like a butterfly and comes out stinging like a bee to just completely being ignored cold turkey. Everyone should be seriously alarmed if this new topic does not dry up quickly. The possibilities are endless no different than someone who is completely cut off from drugs. A sort of you know who I am mentality, that must flurish or else.

[The Boz]

Uh-oh, I'm afraid of all the possible consequences that may happen if this horse racing topic continues for much longer. Kewpie doll must be the center of attention, an obsession that must be maintained like any addict. This is a serious situation developing, you cannot go from being the main VCT non-inspiration head case who goes daily from casino to casino floating in like a butterfly and comes out stinging like a bee to just completely being ignored cold turkey. Everyone should be seriously alarmed if this new topic does not dry up quickly. The possibilities are endless no different than someone who is completely cut off from drugs. A sort of you know who I am mentality, that must flurish or else.

Don’t be a fucking asshole. Even KJ admitted that there must be some validity to BH’s claims. This could potentially be the best thread in a long time on here. Take your petty complaints about KJ to another thread, there are plenty to choose from.

[regnis]

Absolutely. Laz’ s little bro. I remember after he first got caught with whatever his magic potion was, it then was months before he won again, and then never at the same percentages.

Those were pre simulcast and computer days so the racing was more local unless you had a good bookie.

I assume Oscar iii who is mediocre at best is his grandson?

[BoSox]

Uh-oh, I'm afraid of all the possible consequences that may happen if this horse racing topic continues for much longer. Kewpie doll must be the center of attention, an obsession that must be maintained like any addict. This is a serious situation developing, you cannot go from being the main VCT non-inspiration head case who goes daily from casino to casino floating in like a butterfly and comes out stinging like a bee to just completely being ignored cold turkey. Everyone should be seriously alarmed if this new topic does not dry up quickly. The possibilities are endless no different than someone who is completely cut off from drugs. A sort of you know who I am mentality, that must flurish or else.

Don’t be a fucking asshole. Even KJ admitted that there must be some validity to BH’s claims. This could potentially be the best thread in a long time on here. Take your petty complaints about KJ to another thread, there are plenty to choose from.

I guess bathroom remodeling in the thread is perfectly fine with you.

[Mission146]

I will never name a trainer, jockey, horse, or partner. Regnis seems to be well educated about horses. If he was involved for 50 years I would hope so. Any person like Regnis could look up everything they wanted with any of the above-mentioned names. What I’m sure will eventually come up are derogatory comments and I need to protect everyone that was involved with me alleged or not. No Names.

First of all, I owned 3 horses alone and was partners with 2 other guys on one really good one. I had two different trainers in my short career.

My horses were always stabled in Belmont New York (one of the larger tracks) even in the winter. I was involved from mid-80’s to early-90’s. Each horse cost around $2,000.00 dollars per month. When I left it was up to at least $3,000.00 dollars each per month. Don’t know todays cost but I’m sure it’s much more. That fee was just for the staple and trainer’s fees. Like Regnis said everything, and I mean everything or anything the horse needs, or eats, vets, silks, etc. etc. etc. is added on. When you shipped them to race at Aqueduct N.Y. in the winter you paid for that also. You would always expect another $500.00 to $1,000.00 dollars extra on your monthly bill for all of them combined for add-ons. I never paid entry fees. Not that type quality horses.

Are Entry Fees something that are paid by higher or lower quality horses? A quick search tells me that Entry Fees have something to do with trials? Is that like a time trial run for the horses to know what horses to put that one up against? On that note, what are the other criteria for deciding what horses are going to race what other horses? Does the owner or trainer have any say in what specific race a horse runs?

I always had 3 horses. By the time I got out they were not the same 3 I started with. If one got claimed, my trainer and I would eventually claim another one or buy one privately. So, when I did get out at that time one of the horses cost $15K sold privately for $11K, another cost $18K sold privately $16K, another cost $20K sold privately for $11K. The allowance horse I partner with when we finally did sell, we sold privately for $50K.

It makes sense that, the older a horse gets, the less it sells for. What does it mean for an animal to be an allowance horse? I assume if a horse is performing extremely well it might sell for more money as it approaches the peak of its career; is that what happened with the allowance horse you sold for 50k? How much did that one cost when you went in on it...or how much did it cost before you went in on it if it had already been purchased by then?

Other than the allowance horse the other three were considered in the basement claiming type horses for Belmont. The quality of horse can get much worse at many other tracks like Rockingham. In the winter most of the real good horses will ship to other tracks like Florida. That’s when my horses were in many races at Aqueduct. The cards in the winter are usually loaded with shit quality horses. We could usually meet entry requirements for each of them like once every two weeks. Some times every week. When the good ones came back, we had to wait to find a spot for them where they would be eligible and competitive.

What are the Entry Requirements? Does it just have to do with trial times or do previous racing results come into play at all? It sounds like you decided to keep your horses up north deliberately to race against weaker horses rather than sending them down to Florida to race against the good ones---that's a sweet AP move it sounds like to me!

Purses were all over the place. I’d say could be from $25K to $45K (basement bracket) depending on the race being offered. First got 60% second got 20% forgot the rest but I think they paid up to 5th. If you came in the money you had to pay 10% to your trainer and 10% to the jockey on any winnings. You also had to pay the jockey $100.00 dollars just to ride your horse win or lose. Some were even more. Remember this was mid 1980’s. Also, if you won you always took care of the barn workers with tips. It’s pretty much a lose, lose situation unless of course you won big purses or often.

You mentioned that you lost money on the horses overall and owned three horses at any one time. I'm sure you kept detailed financial records for all of these horses. How many total individual horses did you end up owning solo and how many would you say, of those, were net profitable?

Without cashing out on the occasional big pay offs which I’ll get into later I don’t think I would have lasted a year.

Claiming horses don’t go to auction. They either get claimed, sold privately, or die.

I’m reading Missions post trying to answers some questions. Feel like I’m all over the place. The claiming horse game needs more explaining. I had enough for tonight. Really tired. Get to more tomorrow night and over the weekend.

Why would they die? Thanks for answering all my questions! Can these horses not be sold to someone who just likes horses, in general, not for the purpose of racing? Can they not be kept with non-racing horses?

The clocker in the morning records the name of the horse identified by lip tattoos if needed, what type of training is being done, and the time the horse did whatever in. This information gets posted in Racing Forums to help handicappers figure how a horse is doing. Certain trainers are close with the timer and he’ll print a fake time to throw handicappers off. Of course, he’s in on it. It gets much worse than that. They will even post the name of one of the trainers better horses to hide how well a cheaper horse is doing getting tuned up for a pay day.

How does this usually work? I assume he gimmicks the time to make the horse appear to be slower than it actually is, then it ends up having longer odds against it, at which point people can pile on Win, Place or Show bets if they know the horse is better than represented? Do they wait until it's almost race time to get those bets down to prevent it from looking like a bunch of money is coming in on it?

[Mission146]

I was hoping for names just because I probably knew the people and horses involved, but I understand your choice not to disclose.
I have worn many hats in the racing world. I started as a runner, moved up to handicapper, then to representing horsemen. For several years, I put together racing syndications for the budget conscious to get into ownership. For that, I had to become even more knowledgeable about breeding than I already was when breeding was just an interest or hobby for me. I put together all of the legal documents (the prospectus) and selected the horses to be bred or purchased. As me and my trainers got older, I wound up handling the estates and/or dispersal sales of several well-known trainers and owners. During all of that time, I was always a player and that will always be my primary interest.

The stories are endless but I will relate one that shows how pervasive the doping was. My friend had a friend that was under house arrest for selling drugs (pot, cocaine, etc.). I knew him for over a decade and he never once left his house (that I knew of). While he was no longer selling recreational drugs, he was still the supplier for numerous trainers of whatever the performance enhancing drug of the day was for horses. I developed a relationship with him not to supply me or my syndications with drugs, but to tell me which trainers he had shipped to and when. You then just bet that stable for the next 20-30 days as most of those horses were juiced.

Blackhole mentions the clockers and again I have to agree. For many years I was at the track every morning clocking the workouts and they were never very accurate. I don't know if the clocker just was sloppy and didn't care, or if it was intentional. probably both. I also befriended the head of track maintenance. We would talk every morning and he would tell me the depths of the tracks that day and what kind of maintenance had been done. For those of you that aren't Black or Key and may not understand this, it was valuable info as you would know in advance whether the track would favor speed or closers that day.

I guess it is obvious that I have a passion for racing!!!

It's time for some more questions. I apologize for all of my questions, but I've only bet on one individual horserace in my entire life, and I won massively, so I'll never bet on another again so that I can legitimately say I am a lifetime winner. My strategy, apparently, was terrible...I made $2 bets on several different horses, all to WIN, because they all had long odds against them and I reasoned that there was a good chance at least one of those would win as opposed to one of the other two. The funny thing is that the odds changed from what was in the book (which I didn't know could happen at the time!) and one of my horses winning would have still lost overall. Either way, the longest shot one, Forward Bliss, came in and had a return of $140+ on a $2 bet.

So, this is interesting, but I'm never betting again because I don't want to risk not being a lifetime winner.

1.) What does being a runner consist of?

2.) What sorts of things does a handicapper take into consideration? I'm sure times and recent results...so what percentage would you put on what each factor contributes to the handicapping? How do you handicap for a horse that has never run in an actual race before?

3.) Were you a horse-racing specific attorney?

4.) Nice angle on the roided up horses! You basically got to bet with the same information they were using without actually being the one doing the bad deed...nice! Could they, in theory, have had anything on you for knowing about it and not reporting it, or was it fine since you never actually saw it happen?

5.) What does, "Depth," of the track mean? Are there holes in the track?

I see that you have a passion for racing. Do you like the aspect that so much of it is gimmicked, or would you prefer just pure racing?

[Mission146]

I’m going to mention a N.Y. trainer’s name here who I know is dead to see if Regnis remembers him. I never did any business with him or even know him. Although, I could pick him out of a line-up. LOL

Do you remember Oscar Barrera? This was the king of the claiming horse games. He could claim a basement horse for like 15K. He would run him in another higher claiming race like for 18K in less than a week and win for fun. He did this time and time again. One of these mules won like 4 in a row after a claim.

Everyone was trying to figure out what cocktail he knew about that no one else did. Even the lab work being done (back then) couldn’t figure out what he was using. I know a trainer who even had spy get hired at his stables. He never saw anything unusual (or kept it to himself.) Plus he ended up staying in Oscar's stables.

We would bet on his clamed horses that ran right back all the time. He must have had a 75%-win record under those conditions. Of course, you would only bet a couple hundred on these type races with Oscar. It was always just a coin flip. Yet, it turned out to be a trusted +EV move. Talk about an AP move. LOL

I do think I remember eventually he was caught by NYRA for something. Don’t think they ever mentioned what he was fined for other than some type of substance. Don’t even remember exactly what happened but really didn’t care since I was in my own horse world.

So, Regnis, did you remember him?

Post more tonight.

Nice work on the betting/AP move! That's awesome! I like this, along with what Regnis said, in that you guys are just taking advantage of the information that you know without actually perpetrating the bad acts yourselves.

[kewlJ]

Uh-oh, I'm afraid of all the possible consequences that may happen if this horse racing topic continues for much longer. Kewpie doll must be the center of attention, an obsession that must be maintained like any addict. This is a serious situation developing, you cannot go from being the main VCT non-inspiration head case who goes daily from casino to casino floating in like a butterfly and comes out stinging like a bee to just completely being ignored cold turkey. Everyone should be seriously alarmed if this new topic does not dry up quickly. The possibilities are endless no different than someone who is completely cut off from drugs. A sort of you know who I am mentality, that must flurish or else.

That's a shame. We get one long time troll finally contributing something positive that some members are interested in and another troll steps in to take his place trolling. And that is all you are now BoSox, just another troll.

[Mission146]

Regardless of who is or isn't a troll or trolling, may I please just politely ask if you guys can find it within yourselves to find a different thread for any discussion not related to horse racing?

I'm not trying to be a dick, but this thread kicks ass and I'd hate to risk it devolving into an unrelated argument.

[monet]

Regardless of who is or isn't a troll or trolling, may I please just politely ask if you guys can find it within yourselves to find a different thread for any discussion not related to horse racing?

I'm not trying to be a dick, but this thread kicks ass and I'd hate to risk it devolving into an unrelated argument.

Are you trying to say they don't remodel bathrooms at the track??
Obviously, I emphatically refuse to comply with your request.
BoSox and RINO aka Turncoat Vaccinated Boz can go Fuck themselves!
This isn't a Fucking Horse Racing Thread.
This thread is a thread about contributing to the forum.
That leaves this thread open to any and all discussion that contributes.
And for that matter... Why the Fuck is it located in the Las Vegas Section??