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Thread: Contributing to Forum ??

  1. #61
    That was interesting.

    Not as interesting as when John Patrick regaled his board with tales of his fast-pitch pitching prowess at Seidler field, but interesting nonetheless.
    What, Me Worry?

  2. #62
    I was in the game for a good five years as an owner. I think I saw things that even shocked me.

    When my trainer and jockey made sure a horse lost a race because one of the 2 partner owners who owned it was leaving his stable with a couple of other classy horses the following week, I was shocked when he told me not to bet it that morning because of that. It went off the favorite but came in 5th. The following week it was third choice and won for fun.

    Of course it was nice he told me, but I didn't like it. Nothing is sacred in that game. They even start phony rumors that a horse finally found his way as a hot tip all over the race track. Only to hope someone claims it and they rid the mule. Tips are for waiters, unless you're really inside.

  3. #63
    Originally Posted by MisterV View Post
    I think he's just an asshole.

    Lot of that going around.
    I am pretty sure that he is that broken down old shoe that he projects onto others. He was most likely involved in gambling of some form. It consumed him and spit him out just like it did Singer and Alan. Old men get bitter when their dreams get destroyed and they wind up having to live in children's home, rented apartments and campers........RIP

  4. #64
    There you go again max. Blackhole covers just a little bit of his background, and you feel threatened by his success so you go into make-it-up/hate mode again. That seems to be the M.O. for the majority of you LV anchored-down casino rats when it comes to those who even give a glimpse of what a real life is all about. And all this again....coming from one of the most cowardly chickenshits to come down the forum pike that anyone has ever seen. After what we've witnessed, you'd hide away from ALAN if he posted he was coming across town for ya.

    Wise up.

  5. #65
    Blackhole,

    Those fees sound difficult to overcome. How many races would a horse generally run in a month? What was the rough mean average value of the purses for horses in these sorts of races? Why are they paying so much for these yearling horses that may never run a race?

    I had to look up what a, "Claiming race," means. Are horses that are transferred/sold always done by way of a claiming race? Why would someone want to do a claiming race rather than auction off the horse with a reserve price equal to whatever the claiming amount would have been? It looks like they draw straws if there are ties in the claiming race, so presumably, someone would have paid more than that if that is happening.

    When you say, "Fake time," do you mean that this morning clocker is lying about a horse's result in a previous race?

  6. #66
    Originally Posted by blackhole View Post
    I was in the game for a good five years as an owner. I think I saw things that even shocked me.

    When my trainer and jockey made sure a horse lost a race because one of the 2 partner owners who owned it was leaving his stable with a couple of other classy horses the following week, I was shocked when he told me not to bet it that morning because of that. It went off the favorite but came in 5th. The following week it was third choice and won for fun.

    Of course it was nice he told me, but I didn't like it. Nothing is sacred in that game. They even start phony rumors that a horse finally found his way as a hot tip all over the race track. Only to hope someone claims it and they rid the mule. Tips are for waiters, unless you're really inside.
    How do they go about making sure that the horse doesn't win? Do they intentionally have a different jockey run his horse into it or get in its way early and pull up to slow the other one down? What does it mean when a horse, "Finds its way?" It didn't know how to race before and now it suddenly does?

  7. #67
    Yeah, let's just avoid any fighting in this thread, if you guys would be so kind this one time. I'm interested in this horse racing stuff---but Blackhole is going to have to essentially act like I'm a two-year old because I know nothing about it---hence all the questions.

  8. #68
    Originally Posted by Mission146 View Post
    Yeah, let's just avoid any fighting in this thread, if you guys would be so kind this one time. I'm interested in this horse racing stuff---but Blackhole is going to have to essentially act like I'm a two-year old because I know nothing about it---hence all the questions.
    While blackhole's 2 posts on horseracing are easily his biggest contribution to the foum on topic of gambling, because he has contributed zero eles on topic, just trolled, I would advice against putting much value in anything he says. Like everything else, he relays an opinion that is very negative and jaded. While we have all heard of occasional races being "fixed" scandels, if what blackhole is saying was anywhere close to being true, image all the players that would be involved in the fixing of damn near every race as he tells it. Different jockeys, owners, trainers, grooms, race track officials like timers. That would be hundreds of people involved in these crimes, and then if this were industry wide....at how many tracks 50? 100?. Over how many years/decades now? That would be 10's of thousands of people involved, as blackhole tells it....as he says the industry is run.

    You don't think somewhere along the line these accusations would be made public? Give me a break. This is just a guy with conspiracy theories and nagativity about everything.

    The truth is probably something much closer to this. Perhaps blackhole was a horse owner at the lower level. They even have programs where people can own a 'share' of a horse. So perhaps he owned a share of a horse or two or even owned a horse outright. No doubt, at the low end, a low claimer. So blackhole's horse(s) didn't do very well. No surprise. So he has a conspiracy theory that everyone involved was cheating and out to get him.

    I would even go as far to say, there probably was no horse ownership of any kind involved. Blackhole is probably a degenerate horse player. Most of us figured he was a degenerate gambler of some kind. So this lifetime losing, degenerate horse player is spewing typical losing horse player nonsense about cheating and everyone out to get him.

    That's my take. But I sure wouldn't put ANY stock in what this guy says. Mission, if you want to learn something, anything about horseracing or any other topic, go to a more relaible source than this nut.

  9. #69
    Anyone remember this scene from Easy Money, the old Rodney Dangerfeild movie from the 80's where the horse that Dangerfeild and his buddy Joe Peshi bet on was winning until the jockey starts puuling back and dragging his feet to lose intentionally? (watch from about the 1:00 mark)

    Now this is harness racing, not thorobreads and it is the moveis, so just meant to be humorous, but this is the way these degenerate losing horse players think. When they lose it is some great conspiracy involved. If you don't believe me spend an afternoon at the racetrack or even at the horseracing section of the casino sportsbook. You will hear the damned shit! And that is the same shit blackhole just posted.


    Last edited by kewlJ; 08-12-2021 at 09:11 AM.

  10. #70
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by Mission146 View Post
    Yeah, let's just avoid any fighting in this thread, if you guys would be so kind this one time. I'm interested in this horse racing stuff---but Blackhole is going to have to essentially act like I'm a two-year old because I know nothing about it---hence all the questions.
    While blackhole's 2 posts on horseracing are easily his biggest contribution to the foum on topic of gambling, because he has contributed zero eles on topic, just trolled, I would advice against putting much value in anything he says. Like everything else, he relays an opinion that is very negative and jaded. While we have all heard of occasional races being "fixed" scandels, if what blackhole is saying was anywhere close to being true, image all the players that would be involved in the fixing of damn near every race as he tells it. Different jockeys, owners, trainers, grooms, race track officials like timers. That would be hundreds of people involved in these crimes, and then if this were industry wide....at how many tracks 50? 100?. Over how many years/decades now? That would be 10's of thousands of people involved, as blackhole tells it....as he says the industry is run.

    You don't think somewhere along the line these accusations would be made public? Give me a break. This is just a guy with conspiracy theories and nagativity about everything.

    The truth is probably something much closer to this. Perhaps blackhole was a horse owner at the lower level. They even have programs where people can own a 'share' of a horse. So perhaps he owned a share of a horse or two or even owned a horse outright. No doubt, at the low end, a low claimer. So blackhole's horse(s) didn't do very well. No surprise. So he has a conspiracy theory that everyone involved was cheating and out to get him.

    I would even go as far to say, there probably was no horse ownership of any kind involved. Blackhole is probably a degenerate horse player. Most of us figured he was a degenerate gambler of some kind. So this lifetime losing, degenerate horse player is spewing typical losing horse player nonsense about cheating and everyone out to get him.

    That's my take. But I sure wouldn't put ANY stock in what this guy says. Mission, if you want to learn something, anything about horseracing or any other topic, go to a more relaible source than this nut.
    As you should already be aware, I'm in the habit of evaluating claims that other people make without commenting on how I feel about them (in terms of truthfulness) one way or another. It IMMEDIATELY occurs to me that Blackhole knows WAY more about horse racing than I do because I wasn't even aware of these basic terminologies. I can't declare that one person is not in a position to question another person, but then apply a different standard depending on who's doing the questioning.

    In other words, I don't think Blackhole is in any great position to call into question your claims re: card counting. I've said as much. By the same standard, I don't think you are in any position to call into question his claims on horse racing. He can correct me if I am wrong, but it sounds like he is claiming to have been in the game for five years and seems to portray himself as being on the lower end of horse owners---why would that be a difficult claim to believe? I've seen the racing book before, the names of the owners of the horses are listed right in there---and there are usually several owners, so it's not difficult for me to believe he was one of them.

    Anyway, you think things that are illegal don't routinely happen elsewhere in casinos? Both of us know that they do. Why should the horses be any different?

    Don't you know the speeding analogy? The analogy basically just says that if someone actually gets pulled over and ticketed for speeding, then it almost certainly wasn't the first time in that person's life that he or she ever sped. Even if that person never speeds again, then there were still speeders before that person and will be after. Besides, it's easy not to catch things that you're deliberately not looking for. It's like Blackhole said, when you get money involved, most things go out the window.

    I don't think that's a conspiracy theory. In fact, one of Blackhole's stories said the precise opposite...that he was told NOT to bet on a horse specifically because the, "Inside info," was bullshit.

    You have absolutely zero evidence to speculate that Blackhole was a degenerate horse bettor---much less to say there was, 'Probably,' no ownership of any kind.

    Anyway, I'm interested in what he has to say. As with anything else, I will decide for myself whether or not I believe it and will generally not express a hard opinion one way or another. I've certainly never demanded of you that you prove anything, so why should I apply a different standard to Blackhole?

  11. #71
    That is all well and good mission. You can beleive who you like. I did not say blackhole doesn't have the right to post his horse race stories. I found them interesting. Just not credible.

    You say how you feel about someone as far as truthfulness doesn't matter. I find that odd. It matters to me. THAT is what credibility is. So someone that has lied to your face and you KNOW they have lied to your face 100's of times, says something that is suspect and you beleive them unconditionally? Your call, but that is not how I operate.

    Bottom line: Blackhole has proven he is not a reliable source on anything, let alone something as suspect as what he claimed. I will close with reminding you of the definition of insanity.

  12. #72
    Originally Posted by Mission146 View Post
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by Mission146 View Post
    Yeah, let's just avoid any fighting in this thread, if you guys would be so kind this one time. I'm interested in this horse racing stuff---but Blackhole is going to have to essentially act like I'm a two-year old because I know nothing about it---hence all the questions.
    While blackhole's 2 posts on horseracing are easily his biggest contribution to the foum on topic of gambling, because he has contributed zero eles on topic, just trolled, I would advice against putting much value in anything he says. Like everything else, he relays an opinion that is very negative and jaded. While we have all heard of occasional races being "fixed" scandels, if what blackhole is saying was anywhere close to being true, image all the players that would be involved in the fixing of damn near every race as he tells it. Different jockeys, owners, trainers, grooms, race track officials like timers. That would be hundreds of people involved in these crimes, and then if this were industry wide....at how many tracks 50? 100?. Over how many years/decades now? That would be 10's of thousands of people involved, as blackhole tells it....as he says the industry is run.

    You don't think somewhere along the line these accusations would be made public? Give me a break. This is just a guy with conspiracy theories and nagativity about everything.

    The truth is probably something much closer to this. Perhaps blackhole was a horse owner at the lower level. They even have programs where people can own a 'share' of a horse. So perhaps he owned a share of a horse or two or even owned a horse outright. No doubt, at the low end, a low claimer. So blackhole's horse(s) didn't do very well. No surprise. So he has a conspiracy theory that everyone involved was cheating and out to get him.

    I would even go as far to say, there probably was no horse ownership of any kind involved. Blackhole is probably a degenerate horse player. Most of us figured he was a degenerate gambler of some kind. So this lifetime losing, degenerate horse player is spewing typical losing horse player nonsense about cheating and everyone out to get him.

    That's my take. But I sure wouldn't put ANY stock in what this guy says. Mission, if you want to learn something, anything about horseracing or any other topic, go to a more relaible source than this nut.
    As you should already be aware, I'm in the habit of evaluating claims that other people make without commenting on how I feel about them (in terms of truthfulness) one way or another. It IMMEDIATELY occurs to me that Blackhole knows WAY more about horse racing than I do because I wasn't even aware of these basic terminologies. I can't declare that one person is not in a position to question another person, but then apply a different standard depending on who's doing the questioning.

    In other words, I don't think Blackhole is in any great position to call into question your claims re: card counting. I've said as much. By the same standard, I don't think you are in any position to call into question his claims on horse racing. He can correct me if I am wrong, but it sounds like he is claiming to have been in the game for five years and seems to portray himself as being on the lower end of horse owners---why would that be a difficult claim to believe? I've seen the racing book before, the names of the owners of the horses are listed right in there---and there are usually several owners, so it's not difficult for me to believe he was one of them.

    Anyway, you think things that are illegal don't routinely happen elsewhere in casinos? Both of us know that they do. Why should the horses be any different?

    Don't you know the speeding analogy? The analogy basically just says that if someone actually gets pulled over and ticketed for speeding, then it almost certainly wasn't the first time in that person's life that he or she ever sped. Even if that person never speeds again, then there were still speeders before that person and will be after. Besides, it's easy not to catch things that you're deliberately not looking for. It's like Blackhole said, when you get money involved, most things go out the window.

    I don't think that's a conspiracy theory. In fact, one of Blackhole's stories said the precise opposite...that he was told NOT to bet on a horse specifically because the, "Inside info," was bullshit.

    You have absolutely zero evidence to speculate that Blackhole was a degenerate horse bettor---much less to say there was, 'Probably,' no ownership of any kind.

    Anyway, I'm interested in what he has to say. As with anything else, I will decide for myself whether or not I believe it and will generally not express a hard opinion one way or another. I've certainly never demanded of you that you prove anything, so why should I apply a different standard to Blackhole?
    Mission-I am going to jump into this discussion as I have been involved in horse racing for almost 50 years. I am pretty tied up today so there will be short installments starting with training costs.

    At a smaller track, you are looking at a training cost of $2200 to $3000 per month. At a larger track, you are looking at $3000 to $3500. However, it doesn't end there. You have the blacksmith, the stalls (some tracks the stalls are free), feed, supplements, vet bills, meds, licenses, entry fees, etc. It never ends and you never get a fair count from the trainer or vet on these added expenses. These expenses are pretty much the same for a big stakes horse as for the cheapest claiming horse.

    Just an FYI--Blackhole and I have had our issues and really don't converse with each other, but I also would love to hear his stories about racing without any malice back and forth.

    More to follow as time permits

  13. #73
    KewlJ,

    You'll forgive me for being direct, but I tried to be delicate about this and that didn't work. You have a habit of letting your personal vendettas with people cloud any attempts at objectivity that you would otherwise attempt to make. The fact that Blackhole has trolled you or has trolled me has no bearing, either positive or negative, on the potential veracity of his horse racing related claims. At this time, I lack sufficient information to make a determination as to whether Blackhole's stories are credible or not credible, and in fact, it's unlikely that I would ever go out of my way to make a determination one way or another. I find the subject interesting, but I don't expect that it will ever apply to me as I have no desire to ever own racehorses. (And, no, that doesn't mean I am envious of racehorse ownership.)

    I just think it's an interesting subject to learn more about, and as I have stated, Blackhole undoubtedly knows more about it than I do. For that reason, he's as good of a source for starting information as anyone.

    Anyway, you're correct that how I feel about someone personally is irrelevant. More than that, I don't have any real opinion of Blackhole-the person. I know Blackhole to the extent of what he posts, and while it is true that he has posted a great many things that I disagree with and believe have been deliberately with intent to annoy, I don't believe that automatically says anything definitive about Blackhole-the person. You could argue that certain postings might point to things, and that would be difficult to dispute, but it does not prove those things conclusively.

    Facts are similar to coming up with solutions to a presented math problem. The solution to a math problem coming from a person is either correct or incorrect regardless of how I may feel about the person who did the solving. I look at stories the same way. I know that Blackhole is older than me and participates on gambling forums---from that much I can gather than Blackhole has more than zero gambling experience and knowledge. Simply put, Blackhole must have done SOMETHING in his life between when he was born and now, so why shouldn't that include being a lower-tier racehorse owner? There's no basis for you, or anyone, to make a factual objection that I can see---at this point. If you want to dispute all facts coming from a person whose character you don't like, then that's perfectly up to you. For me, facts are facts, regardless of any prior dealings I have had with a person.

    And, as always, Blackhole's claims will probably make no difference to me personally. They are of an interesting gambling-related subject that I do not know anything about, so are a good discussion topic which, in theory, is what we are here to do.

    Anyway, if someone who lied to me 100's of times says, "Two plus two equals four," then I have no reason not to believe that claim. Besides, what has Blackhole ever lied to me about? It seems most of his statements (on other issues) are statements of opinion, even if they may sometimes be dogmatically expressed as if they were fact.

    Even when we look at your Blackjack claims, I expressed to Blackhole/Singer that I found them, "Remarkably consistent," given the period of time covered. I never said I know one way or another for a 100% fact---how could I? We've never even met. People make claims and we each, individually, decide whether or not we believe them. Some people choose to call others liars, to say that everything that they say must be a lie, but that is not how I operate.

  14. #74
    Originally Posted by regnis View Post

    Mission-I am going to jump into this discussion as I have been involved in horse racing for almost 50 years. I am pretty tied up today so there will be short installments starting with training costs.

    At a smaller track, you are looking at a training cost of $2200 to $3000 per month. At a larger track, you are looking at $3000 to $3500. However, it doesn't end there. You have the blacksmith, the stalls (some tracks the stalls are free), feed, supplements, vet bills, meds, licenses, entry fees, etc. It never ends and you never get a fair count from the trainer or vet on these added expenses. These expenses are pretty much the same for a big stakes horse as for the cheapest claiming horse.

    Just an FYI--Blackhole and I have had our issues and really don't converse with each other, but I also would love to hear his stories about racing without any malice back and forth.

    More to follow as time permits
    That's excellent! I'll look forward to your continued participation in this thread and will be interested in both stories shared and any back-and-forth with Blackhole that you may have. Blackhole's statement on training costs seems consistent with the numbers that you have provided, and while Blackhole did not itemize other expenses, his post certainly did not imply that training is the only expense. For example, I assume that horses eat...which costs a non-zero amount of money, but I wouldn't know if food is included in training costs or not.

  15. #75
    Yes I don't like Blackhole. He has trolled me, called me a liar as to my blackjack experience about 1000 times, started threads trying to discredit me (where he has failed miserably) and repeatedly called me some pretty nasty shit. But that is not what I am basing my opinion on.

    The way blackhole tells it every race is fixed, with many jockeys, trainers, owners, track officials participating. That is just ridiculous. These are crimes! People would go to prison.

    Are there some fixing going on? Sure. And we hear about these incident occasionally. Just like there is an occasional cheating scandal with basketball and other sports, but does anyone believe that every game is fixed? That is basically what Blackhole is alleging.

    Look, the man has a history. I don't know what his gambling history exactly is, but he seems very angry and bitter with players that win. I see the same pattern here. Looks like a losing horse guy claiming the entire industry is corrupt and cheating (fixing every race) and out to get HIM. I don't buy it! Again that is not to say there isn't some shady stuff going on. But really...read what he wrote.

  16. #76
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Yes I don't like Blackhole. He has trolled me, called me a liar as to my blackjack experience about 1000 times, started threads trying to discredit me (where he has failed miserably) and repeatedly called me some pretty nasty shit. But that is not what I am basing my opinion on.

    The way blackhole tells it every race is fixed, with many jockeys, trainers, owners, track officials participating. That is just ridiculous. These are crimes! People would go to prison.

    Are there some fixing going on? Sure. And we hear about these incident occasionally. Just like there is an occasional cheating scandal with basketball and other sports, but does anyone believe that every game is fixed? That is basically what Blackhole is alleging.

    Look, the man has a history. I don't know what his gambling history exactly is, but he seems very angry and bitter with players that win. I see the same pattern here. Looks like a losing horse guy claiming the entire industry is corrupt and cheating (fixing every race) and out to get HIM. I don't buy it! Again that is not to say there isn't some shady stuff going on. But really...read what he wrote.

    While I don`t know if there is cheating going on in every race, every day, cheating certainly runs rampant in this sport. I don`t know if you know the major players involved, but the biggest fish out there, Bob Baffert is under investigation for illegal substances to his horses and is currently banned from racing in Kentucky. 2 other pretty well known trainers (Jason Servis and Jorge Navarro) had their barns raided by the FBI and may do jail time. These 3 are all high profile, that train at major tracks. Can you imagine the funny business at bush tracks with no name trainers just scrounging to eke out a living?

    Add to that the vets that may be promised a percentage of winnings if they can somehow get the horse to run faster, stewards who may make disqualifications to the winner and jockeys who I`ve heard from several people carry electric shock buzzers or will throw a race on purpose.....All these parties involved can bet along with the general public, so if you think people arent breaking the rules, you`re nuts

    There`s also big time CPU teams that can hack into the betting totes and manipulate odds after the race has already started.

    There is no central governing body in horse racing which pretty much means anyone can just run amok with the rules

    Add all that up KJ, and Blackhole`s claims aren`t as far fetched as you may think

  17. #77
    "Win if you can, lose if you must, but ALWAYS cheat!

  18. #78
    I wonder which sport, historically, was more crooked: horse racing or boxing?
    What, Me Worry?

  19. #79
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Yes I don't like Blackhole. He has trolled me, called me a liar as to my blackjack experience about 1000 times, started threads trying to discredit me (where he has failed miserably) and repeatedly called me some pretty nasty shit. But that is not what I am basing my opinion on.

    The way blackhole tells it every race is fixed, with many jockeys, trainers, owners, track officials participating. That is just ridiculous. These are crimes! People would go to prison.

    Are there some fixing going on? Sure. And we hear about these incident occasionally. Just like there is an occasional cheating scandal with basketball and other sports, but does anyone believe that every game is fixed? That is basically what Blackhole is alleging.

    Look, the man has a history. I don't know what his gambling history exactly is, but he seems very angry and bitter with players that win. I see the same pattern here. Looks like a losing horse guy claiming the entire industry is corrupt and cheating (fixing every race) and out to get HIM. I don't buy it! Again that is not to say there isn't some shady stuff going on. But really...read what he wrote.
    What the hell? He said, "Colluding on certain wins," he never came anywhere close to saying that every single race is rigged.

    Blackhole is alleging no such thing even close to every race being fixed. Also, people often base statements on their observations, so the possibility that perhaps Blackhole's track(s) had more cheating than average occurs to me.

    Anyway, here's a story you might not read:

    When I worked at the telemarketing place, we sold credit cards and/or credit card fee products for one of the big four. When I say, "Big Four," I mean that we sold contracted by them directly, not that we sold for one of the banks who had a licensing agreement to issue their cards. You might think, "One of the big four credit card issuers isn't going to perpetrate fraud," and you would be WRONG!

    The ironic part is that we (the call center contracted) weren't even the ones engaging in fraud. In fact, the reason that the credit card issuer was found to have been acting fraudulently was something we weren't even doing!

    The credit card issuer had lawyers prepare certain, "Scripts," that were to act as presentations when you got the customer on the phone. Most of these scripts would talk about the features and benefits of a certain service on the card, but they wouldn't talk about the monthly cost of the service. The monthly cost of the service wasn't stated (in the script) until the recorded disclosure and consent.

    You couldn't sell anything with this script because, by the time you got to the disclosure, the people would know that the service had a monthly price...and the script basically led them to believe that it didn't. You had to actually say, "XX dollars and ninety-nine cents per month," no saying $XX.99 the quick way. They were going to catch that no matter how fast you read.

    Instead, at the call center, if the credit card provider was not on a, "Client Session," (listening to calls directly with me as a supervisor, for example) we WOULD state the price in our presentation, but would also quickly say that it would be fully refunded in the event that they call and cancel within the first thirty days of enrollment. When we did that, nothing in the disclosure came as a surprise to them and we got sales.

    In other words, we were deviating from the presentation, which the credit card issuer KNEW we were doing, but wanted to have deniability.

    Anyway, there ended up being a whole thing with the FTC and FCC over some complaints that would ultimately result in the credit card issuer having to fully refund every single person who was ever charged for the service. Why? The answer is because they noted that the price was never mentioned until the disclosure and that agents would read the disclosure as fast as humanly possible.

    We DID read it as fast as possible, but not because we were hiding anything. The reason why is because, if the customer objected during the disclosure, we could no longer rebut the objection on recording. Therefore, we just wanted to read it, get the, "YES," and get out.

    It's ironic because the credit card issuer was killed by their own script---the one that they thought covered all of their legal bases, that we did not use AND that they pretended to act like they thought we were using all the time.

    Anyway, just about everything is shady---in one way or another---in my experience. I tend to think that everyone operates just as close to the laws/codes as they think is necessary not to get into trouble. If anyone gets caught for anything, I assume:

    1.) Blatency:

    ---They simply did it too blatantly such as to be undeniable.

    2.) Frequency:

    ---If you do it enough, then you will eventually get caught as long as someone is looking for it.

    3.) Dollar Amount:

    ---More people tend to look for shenanigans the larger the amount of money involved.

    Newspaper Delivery---Honest, but I did know of one dishonest thing happening---though it was high-level and had nothing to do with me.
    Grocery Store---Routinely Violated Health, Safety, Food Service and Fire Codes. Owner liked to sexually harass young girls.
    Parks Department---Mostly Honest, some deliberate health and fire codes ignored.
    Bartender---Health and Fire Codes Ignored, Misreporting of Cash Sales
    Grocery Store (Again)---Same. Health, Safety, Fire frequently ignored. On the grocery supervisor end, we'd often over-inflate refundable damages.
    Furniture Store---Oh my God, all we ever did was lie. The only thing anyone could have ever honestly sold was mattresses.
    Hotel #1---Health, Safety, Fire.
    Telemarketing---Above, and more. Some disclosures (usually actual cards) we'd blaze through BECAUSE we didn't want the customer catching some of it. If there was a way to cheat, we did it.
    Hotel #2---Health, Safety, Fire, Labor Laws, Liquor Laws, Owner also liked Sexually Harassing Women
    Food Distribution Center----Hahahahahaha. You don't even want to know.

    Honestly, writing for the sites is my most honest employer. We advertise for offshore online casinos, that's what we do. We're not trying to hide anything.
    Last edited by Mission146; 08-12-2021 at 12:02 PM.

  20. #80
    Keystone corroborating Blackhole again in addition to Regnis! More support for Blackhole. I think we can all learn some valuable lessons on not challenging things that we don't know about ourselves and on not calling people liars.

    I don't think these people are in the Blackhole cult anymore than I think there is a KewlJ cult, or anyone in it.

    If anyone is in the Mission cult, then you have chosen your messiah VERY badly and should pick a different one at once.

    Anyway, the point of my post above is that there is cheating and lying anywhere. I think that if a person assumes anything is 100% honest, then that person has already made a mistake. I think people only avoid cheating and lying to the extent of what they don't think they will be able to get away with.

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