WSOP requiring entrants to be vaccinated

[redietz]

"best scientific and medical minds?" It's all about getting the money moving into big pharma's pockets kew.

The company that makes the drug, Merck is issuing repeated statements that the drug does not work in treating covid. That is an odd strategy for moving money into their own pockets.

The fact is there have been a few trials that show some promise. Some of them very small. The first one I read about was a trial in Pakistan, I think. 72 patients, were divided into 3 group and each group given a different "trial" medication to see if there was any effect. So the 2 dozen or so given Ivermectin fared slightly better. recovered in a little less time. Means nothing. Suppose that group had 1 or 2 less people with surpressed immune systems, or diabletes, or obese or whatever risk factors.

This is why we don't approve anything on results of a few trials, especially conducted in placed that we don't know how they were conducted. If extensive trials continue to show some benefit, then it might be approved as a treatment. Until then, it is nothing. Currently people are taking huge doses of the drug meant for horses and cows and coming down with all kinds of serious, in some cases ;life threatening side effects, tremers and heart issues among them.

It is amazing that the very same people screaming that the vaccines were not properly tested, when these vaccines aren't new....they have been working on this vaccine, before covid popped up, and it has been thoroughly tested. But the same people complaining that they haven't been thoroughly tested are willing to run out and take some horse and cow medicaation based on a few trials in some countries that we have no idea how they were conducted.

You people are simply retardted. The CDC and food and drug admin, is NOT out to get people. They are top people in their feilds who have devoted their lives to medicine. And it isn't even about money for these people. If it was about money, every one of them could make much more in the private sector, working for some big Pharma.

Seriously people, use your God given brains for something other than paranoia. Everyone isn't out to get you. Everything isn't a conspiracy.

Conspiracy? No.

Clusterfuck? Yes.

[kewlJ]

If it is true that having had covid provides more protection than the vaccine, then these vaccine mandates make little logical sense IF the subject previously had covid/can prove current antibodies.

No surprise that immunity from having had the virus provided more protection that an vaccine created to mimick that response. I had the virus, but it was 15 months ago. Antibodies from both having had the virus and vaccine begin to wane, in 6-8 months.

But here is the thing. Antibodies are only part of the defense. There is something called memory cells, sometimes referred to a "B" cells, and even if antibodies have disappeared, these memory cells immediately recognize and remember the virus, even different versions, and immediately ramp up production of of defenses, within 24 hours, when it took much longer for an initail infection. These memory cells may last for years. It's not clear. But the point is, just because antibodies are beginning to wane, does not mean you are not still protected.

Now, of course, I will get a booster as soon as I am eligible, 6 or 8 month, because I want as many layers of protection as I can get.

[monet]

The same people who put Fluoride in our water supply, pump Chickens full of growth hormones, dye our Beef red, dye Sick Grey Colored Salmon Pink, Wax our Apples, gas Green Tomatoes so they turn red... etc. etc. as the list is neverending.
Thanks... Trust the FDA and Big Pharma... I appreciate you edumacating me on the subject.
Time to run out and get the so called Free Jab!!

[kewlJ]

redietz, of course there will be a variant come along whether Delta 4 or some other name, that evades the vaccine, or protection is greatly reduced. That is what viruses do....they mutate to evade. And vacines will need to be updated, just like they are every year for the flu.

It didn't have to be that way. If we could have gotten 85-90% vaccinated or natural immunity from having had the virus, the virus would have died out....nowhere to go, not enough people to invect. But in this climate, politics having been injected into the vaccine deabate, that wasn't going to happen.

So we will deal with it like the flu, vaccines every year, and vaccines adjusted for new variants.

[kewlJ]

The same people who put Fluoride in our water supply, pump Chickens full of growth hormones, dye our Beef red, dye Sick Grey Colored Salmon Pink, Wax our Apples, gas Green Tomatoes so they turn red... etc. etc. as the list is neverending.
Thanks... Trust the FDA and Big Pharma... I appreciate you edumacating me on the subject.
Time to run out and get the so called Free Jab!!

Conspiricy theorist #1 on this forum. You do what you got to do Porkchop. But being overweight and probably diabetic or pre-diabetic, which are two of the higher risk factors, your conspiracy theories may not end well for you. Not hoping that. I hope you live a long time to share your bitterness and negativity.

[mcap]

redietz, of course there will be a variant come along whether Delta 4 or some other name, that evades the vaccine, or protection is greatly reduced. That is what viruses do....they mutate to evade. And vacines will need to be updated, just like they are every year for the flu.

It didn't have to be that way. If we could have gotten 85-90% vaccinated or natural immunity from having had the virus, the virus would have died out....nowhere to go, not enough people to invect. But in this climate, politics having been injected into the vaccine deabate, that wasn't going to happen.

So we will deal with it like the flu, vaccines every year, and vaccines adjusted for new variants.

The thing is, they knew from the polls they were never going to get 85% of the people to take the vaccine, so why the faux outrage finger pointing after the fact when they already KNEW not enough people were going to take it to eradicate it. It was ALWAYS entirely a hypothetical, non real world theory.

[kewlJ]

The thing is, they knew from the polls they were never going to get 85% of the people to take the vaccine, so why the faux outrage finger pointing after the fact when they already KNEW not enough people were going to take it to eradicate it. It was ALWAYS entirely a hypothetical, non real world theory.

Probably right. There are some legitimate antivaxers that really don't beleive in vaccinations and many forms of modern medicine. Thses folks were always going to be a problem.

BUT Most of the resistance is purely political and it should have never been made political. The very people that made it political got their vaccines.

[kewlJ]

Anyway, I don't care. You folks do what you want. Don't get the vaccine. Take some anti-worm horse and cow medication. Jump off the Golden Gate Bridge for all I care.

[redietz]

redietz, of course there will be a variant come along whether Delta 4 or some other name, that evades the vaccine, or protection is greatly reduced. That is what viruses do....they mutate to evade. And vacines will need to be updated, just like they are every year for the flu.

It didn't have to be that way. If we could have gotten 85-90% vaccinated or natural immunity from having had the virus, the virus would have died out....nowhere to go, not enough people to invect. But in this climate, politics having been injected into the vaccine deabate, that wasn't going to happen.

So we will deal with it like the flu, vaccines every year, and vaccines adjusted for new variants.

No, what you're saying is the party line Disney version.

To eradicate the virus, what would have been (or can be) required would be a stiff 90-120 day complete lockdown with mandatory vaccination. Without the lockdown, and with people still interacting, unless everyone is vaccinated at once, more or less, the virus is driven by the presence of vaccines to hyper-evolve immunity to them. Now that Delta has the same viral load in vaccinated as in unvaccinated, eradication is almost impossible without a lockdown.

This is why Osterholm compared what the U.S. is trying to do to "painting a train going 180 miles an hour." If you don't stop the train, painting it is a clusterfuck.

If a country is unwilling or unable to execute a lockdown for whatever reasons, then it risks trying to vaccinate during a pandemic, which (from the beginning) many evolutionary biologists said was a real bad idea. Which is why evolutionary biologists don't get invited to White House press briefings.

There are now 14 or 15 variants in the U.S. The idea that every three months, there will be a new vaccine to deal with a new variant is very optimistic. And all of these vaccines will be experimental. And while they hold off a particular variant for the next five or six months, there will, by that time, be another dozen variants circulating, any one of which may evade the current vaccine and you can catch and die from, vaccine or not. It'll be a constant Russian roulette. New vaccines dealing with this variant or that one every four or five months, and a dozen or more new variants popping up and circulating all the time.

As I said, a clusterfuck.

[redietz]

redietz, of course there will be a variant come along whether Delta 4 or some other name, that evades the vaccine, or protection is greatly reduced. That is what viruses do....they mutate to evade. And vacines will need to be updated, just like they are every year for the flu.

It didn't have to be that way. If we could have gotten 85-90% vaccinated or natural immunity from having had the virus, the virus would have died out....nowhere to go, not enough people to invect. But in this climate, politics having been injected into the vaccine deabate, that wasn't going to happen.

So we will deal with it like the flu, vaccines every year, and vaccines adjusted for new variants.

The thing is, they knew from the polls they were never going to get 85% of the people to take the vaccine, so why the faux outrage finger pointing after the fact when they already KNEW not enough people were going to take it to eradicate it. It was ALWAYS entirely a hypothetical, non real world theory.

Again, correct. The height of irresponsibility. You can't vaccinate without a stringent shutdown anyway, if you want to truly eliminate the virus.

[kewlJ]

No, what you're saying is the party line Disney version.

To eradicate the virus, what would have been (or can be) required would be a stiff 90-120 day complete lockdown with mandatory vaccination. Without the lockdown, and with people still interacting, unless everyone is vaccinated at once, more or less, the virus is driven by the presence of vaccines to hyper-evolve immunity to them. Now that Delta has the same viral load in vaccinated as in unvaccinated, eradication is almost impossible without a lockdown.

This is why Osterholm compared what the U.S. is trying to do to "painting a train going 180 miles an hour." If you don't stop the train, painting it is a clusterfuck.

If a country is unwilling or unable to execute a lockdown for whatever reasons, then it risks trying to vaccinate during a pandemic, which (from the beginning) many evolutionary biologists said was a real bad idea. Which is why evolutionary biologists don't get invited to White House press briefings.

Polio. Rubella. Whooping Cough. Tetnus. Measles. These have all been eraticated or controlled by vaccine, and we never had to lockdown.

The idea of lockdown is ridiculous. In hindsight, it was a knee jerk, panic move last March based on fear. I wasn't opposed at the time and I can admit that in hindsight I was wrong. Now individual people, can choose to lockdown if they are higher risk or for whatever reason they choose. And I chose to not lockdown but remove myself from the casino environment (which I decided was too risky for my situation) several times last year and even earlier this year, while waiting for the vaccine. I still went out, just elimintaed that casino environment, which happens to be where I earn my living.

You just can't lock down. You destroy economies that will take years even a decade to recover. Children are permanately damaged by sub par online education. That is not eductation....that was babysitting. And their social developement completely damaged.

[mickeycrimm]

Since this is important...regarding the "we" in the sentence above, I have my doubts. The case is not nearly a slam dunk against Ivermectin, and not nearly a slam dunk for vaccine efficacy.

Ivermectin is NOT hydroxychloroquine. Just because anti-science Republicans are for something doesn't make it wrong.

Suggested reading:


https://www.newswars.com/now-is-the-...o-treat-covid/

The above sounds like a right wing hype job, but appearing on a right wing hype job website does not make the article itself a right wing hype job. This is a very important rule to remember.


And then we have this:


https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/med...?ocid=msedgntp


This was not a close contest. Having had the original Covid strain is much, much more effective against getting Delta than the vaccine.


I will tackle this in my blog in days ahead, not from the medical perspective because I am unqualified, but from an analysis of American media coverage (I was a journalism major originally, and have worked for small newspapers), and my degree is in Writing. I will absolutely eviscerate a piece CNN did regarding Ivermectin. And after you read what I have to say, you will agree with me.

So stay tuned.

KewlJ, I love you. You sound like my friends in academia, who are turning a blind eye to the fact that Republican-bad, Progressive-good is not really a way to evaluate sources.

That republicans are "anti-science" is socialist bullshit propaganda, comrade.

[mickeycrimm]

And finally, read it and weep (to use a poker line):

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/med...?ocid=msedgntp

And in other news, frogs could avoid bumping their asses when they land if they develop wings.

[mickeycrimm]

If it is true that having had covid provides more protection than the vaccine, then these vaccine mandates make little logical sense IF the subject previously had covid/can prove current antibodies.

No surprise that immunity from having had the virus provided more protection that an vaccine created to mimick that response. I had the virus, but it was 15 months ago. Antibodies from both having had the virus and vaccine begin to wane, in 6-8 months.

But here is the thing. Antibodies are only part of the defense. There is something called memory cells, sometimes referred to a "B" cells, and even if antibodies have disappeared, these memory cells immediately recognize and remember the virus, even different versions, and immediately ramp up production of of defenses, within 24 hours, when it took much longer for an initail infection. These memory cells may last for years. It's not clear. But the point is, just because antibodies are beginning to wane, does not mean you are not still protected.

Now, of course, I will get a booster as soon as I am eligible, 6 or 8 month, because I want as many layers of protection as I can get.

I'm also on top of the booster shot situation will be taking it as soon as available to me.

[mickeycrimm]

No, what you're saying is the party line Disney version.

To eradicate the virus, what would have been (or can be) required would be a stiff 90-120 day complete lockdown with mandatory vaccination. Without the lockdown, and with people still interacting, unless everyone is vaccinated at once, more or less, the virus is driven by the presence of vaccines to hyper-evolve immunity to them. Now that Delta has the same viral load in vaccinated as in unvaccinated, eradication is almost impossible without a lockdown.

This is why Osterholm compared what the U.S. is trying to do to "painting a train going 180 miles an hour." If you don't stop the train, painting it is a clusterfuck.

If a country is unwilling or unable to execute a lockdown for whatever reasons, then it risks trying to vaccinate during a pandemic, which (from the beginning) many evolutionary biologists said was a real bad idea. Which is why evolutionary biologists don't get invited to White House press briefings.

Polio. Rubella. Whooping Cough. Tetnus. Measles. These have all been eraticated or controlled by vaccine, and we never had to lockdown.

The idea of lockdown is ridiculous. In hindsight, it was a knee jerk, panic move last March based on fear. I wasn't opposed at the time and I can admit that in hindsight I was wrong. Now individual people, can choose to lockdown if they are higher risk or for whatever reason they choose. And I chose to not lockdown but remove myself from the casino environment (which I decided was too risky for my situation) several times last year and even earlier this year, while waiting for the vaccine. I still went out, just elimintaed that casino environment, which happens to be where I earn my living.

You just can't lock down. You destroy economies that will take years even a decade to recover. Children are permanately damaged by sub par online education. That is not eductation....that was babysitting. And their social developement completely damaged.

Reidietz is a doom and gloom wingnut on this covid issue. I can just hear him all thru the years of smallpox, a disease that was around for 10,000 years. They developed vaccines. "No good" said redietz "it's still going to spread." Less and less people were getting smallpox. "No, good" said redietz "its going to mutate." When they announced in 1979 that the disease had been eradicated from the planet by vaccines redietz popped up and said "No good. You are all still going to die. Just from something else."

I got the smallpox vaccine when I was a kid. But no one gets it anymore because it's not needed. However, the vaccine is being stored in case of bioterrorism or biowarfare.

[MaxPen]

Some of you guys are freaking geniuses. You won't take a vaccine created by the best medical and scientific experts that reduces severe illness, hospitalizations and deaths significantly, because you have decided that these medical and science experts are out to get you, when most don't have a political bone in their body. (I suspect many are republicans). But instead you listen to nut jobs on social media, with zero medical expertise, now telling people to take animal medication meant to de-worm cows and other such nonsense. Good luck with that! At least you won't have cow worms when you die of covid.

Not surprised at some of you, but a few I am surprised as you are smarter than this. We have the smartest and best scientific minds in the world. Means nothing if you don't trust them.

The Covid 19 vax is already expired. Doesn't do anything against Delta. Get in line for your next shot. In 5 years after your 9th dose come back and tell me who the retard is.....lol

[monet]

Polio. Rubella. Whooping Cough. Tetnus. Measles. These have all been eraticated or controlled by vaccine, and we never had to lockdown.

You are talking about real vaccines with your listed analogy.
One Shot and Done.
That's a vaccine.
Covid Flu Shots are not Vaccines.
They don't work the same way and do not have the same type of efficacy.
They lied to all of us about how they work inside the body.
That is your trusted FDA, CDC, WHO, Big Pharma and any other 3 letter agency you want to add into the mix.
And the Fucking complication ratio is off the charts.
They harm more people than all the real vaccines put together which used to be unacceptable in the Science and Medical Community until now because of Risk Assessment.
Enjoy your heart growth on your next booster shot.
People are taking the Horse Medication because our government won't allow doctors to prescribe the correct Ivermectin and other medications that can help.
You are taking a shot that doesn't clear trials till the year 2023.
Talk about gambling.
I'm done with the conversation for awhile though because nobody on here is going to change each others mind.
We all already have our minds made up on this issue.
And don't worry, your side is winning as they are and will continue to force everyone to get the shot if they want to work or buy food.

[redietz]

Since this is important...regarding the "we" in the sentence above, I have my doubts. The case is not nearly a slam dunk against Ivermectin, and not nearly a slam dunk for vaccine efficacy.

Ivermectin is NOT hydroxychloroquine. Just because anti-science Republicans are for something doesn't make it wrong.

Suggested reading:


https://www.newswars.com/now-is-the-...o-treat-covid/

The above sounds like a right wing hype job, but appearing on a right wing hype job website does not make the article itself a right wing hype job. This is a very important rule to remember.


And then we have this:


https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/med...?ocid=msedgntp


This was not a close contest. Having had the original Covid strain is much, much more effective against getting Delta than the vaccine.


I will tackle this in my blog in days ahead, not from the medical perspective because I am unqualified, but from an analysis of American media coverage (I was a journalism major originally, and have worked for small newspapers), and my degree is in Writing. I will absolutely eviscerate a piece CNN did regarding Ivermectin. And after you read what I have to say, you will agree with me.

So stay tuned.

KewlJ, I love you. You sound like my friends in academia, who are turning a blind eye to the fact that Republican-bad, Progressive-good is not really a way to evaluate sources.

That republicans are "anti-science" is socialist bullshit propaganda, comrade.

"Socialist" has nothing to do with it. Trump was blatantly anti-science because being anti-science dovetailed with his short-term goals. What's happening now is more subtle, but only slightly, and it's because spin and editing dovetail with short-term goals. The U.S. has the stingiest social safety net of the Western democracies, so a lockdown is like a seizure to the U.S. economy, while other countries, either smaller and more nimble or authoritarian like China, can handle it with aplomb.

The U.S. does more poorly with Covid than other countries because we're structurally incapable of an effective shutdown. Everything takes a back seat to maintenance of commerce, and competition between states for commerce is some of what drives the inability to shut down. The inability to lock down will be, in part, the grease that enables China to slide by us economically permanently. China is structurally designed to deal with Covid better than the U.S. The difference in coping is stark.

Republicans aren't, per se, anti-science. That's a side effect of being, in general, what appears to be anti-rational, but may not be. If the majority of Republicans claim that Biden lost the election, that's anti-reality and appears to be irrational, but it may be rational from a purely political perspective, which is what I've argued recently in my blog.

[Rob.Singer]

redietz, of course there will be a variant come along whether Delta 4 or some other name, that evades the vaccine, or protection is greatly reduced. That is what viruses do....they mutate to evade. And vacines will need to be updated, just like they are every year for the flu.

It didn't have to be that way. If we could have gotten 85-90% vaccinated or natural immunity from having had the virus, the virus would have died out....nowhere to go, not enough people to invect. But in this climate, politics having been injected into the vaccine deabate, that wasn't going to happen.

So we will deal with it like the flu, vaccines every year, and vaccines adjusted for new variants.

NOW you're getting it kew. Boosters, recurring vaccinations, "delta variant" scares....on and on. Just what the pharmaceutical companies ordered--and on a golden platter.

I don't believe in any conspiracy or whatever. I simply want to be in charge of whether or not I choose to have medicine put into my body. And that answer is usually NO. I've been around a lot longer than you have, and my choice has served me well. You don't always listen to so-called "experts" in order to thrive and survive. It's why we have these incredibly complex computers attached to our necks.

[mickeycrimm]

Since this is important...regarding the "we" in the sentence above, I have my doubts. The case is not nearly a slam dunk against Ivermectin, and not nearly a slam dunk for vaccine efficacy.

Ivermectin is NOT hydroxychloroquine. Just because anti-science Republicans are for something doesn't make it wrong.

Suggested reading:


https://www.newswars.com/now-is-the-...o-treat-covid/

The above sounds like a right wing hype job, but appearing on a right wing hype job website does not make the article itself a right wing hype job. This is a very important rule to remember.


And then we have this:


https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/med...?ocid=msedgntp


This was not a close contest. Having had the original Covid strain is much, much more effective against getting Delta than the vaccine.


I will tackle this in my blog in days ahead, not from the medical perspective because I am unqualified, but from an analysis of American media coverage (I was a journalism major originally, and have worked for small newspapers), and my degree is in Writing. I will absolutely eviscerate a piece CNN did regarding Ivermectin. And after you read what I have to say, you will agree with me.

So stay tuned.

KewlJ, I love you. You sound like my friends in academia, who are turning a blind eye to the fact that Republican-bad, Progressive-good is not really a way to evaluate sources.

That republicans are "anti-science" is socialist bullshit propaganda, comrade.

"Socialist" has nothing to do with it. Trump was blatantly anti-science because being anti-science dovetailed with his short-term goals. What's happening now is more subtle, but only slightly, and it's because spin and editing dovetail with short-term goals. The U.S. has the stingiest social safety net of the Western democracies, so a lockdown is like a seizure to the U.S. economy, while other countries, either smaller and more nimble or authoritarian like China, can handle it with aplomb.

The U.S. does more poorly with Covid than other countries because we're structurally incapable of an effective shutdown. Everything takes a back seat to maintenance of commerce, and competition between states for commerce is some of what drives the inability to shut down. The inability to lock down will be, in part, the grease that enables China to slide by us economically permanently. China is structurally designed to deal with Covid better than the U.S. The difference in coping is stark.

Republicans aren't, per se, anti-science. That's a side effect of being, in general, what appears to be anti-rational, but may not be. If the majority of Republicans claim that Biden lost the election, that's anti-reality and appears to be irrational, but it may be rational from a purely political perspective, which is what I've argued recently in my blog.

Trump being anti-science is just a dem slogan you use. He's the one that got us the vaccine in record time. Save your breath with the bullshit that he didn't.

You've been damn quiet about Joe Talibiden's complete assclown incompetence as President. Cancelling drilling and pipeline projects then begging the Saudi's to produce more oil. Flooding the country with millions of uneducated covid infected migrants. Pulling the troops out of Afghanistan before pulling out the civilians. He's a complete idiot.

You routinely elevate the Chi-Comm's to hero status. You love the Chinese model, they allow their citizens to work and produce but maintain complete dictatorship over them. Perhaps, comrade, you will be one of the first to renounce your American rights and move to China where you can enjoy complete domination by the government.

The Chi-Comms are better able to deal with the virus because they have complete dictatorial control over a people that are no better than slaves. WHEN THE CHI-COMMS SAY SHIT THE PEOPLE START SQUATTING!!!

The Chi-Comms are your hero's redietz. Blessed are the dictator's. Right?