Like fucking clockwork

[AxelWolf]

Haleluju!!! Only took me stating it a dozen time for you to understand.

there is no reason in the world why he would not throw every penny he has at this plus solicit cash from as many people as it takes to have accepted my original "significant" (again, his word) bet amount, if he supposedly knows he will win. It make no sense that he wouldn't do that.

There is a reason actually and I hinted to it. I didn't want to spell it out because I didn't want to offend anyone that might be involved as an arbitrator. The single word explanation is 'collusion'. What is stopping either party, you or I with colluding with the arbitrator and splitting the proceeds should he rule in our favor? That is a scenario that I could lose, while knowing that I have actually won. And thus I weighed what I was willing to risk.

But again, moot point at the moment.

All you're showing here is more paranoia nonsense muddying up what should be an otherwise very simple endeavor. And why all the obfuscating? Because you know your collar does not match your cuffs.

If what he has said comes close to matching up (let's say within a 15% margin ) would you not agree that for the most part what he has been saying regarding what he makes per year is credible? Yes or no?

Someome reread what MR.V said... Something like that seem like it would solve any tomfoolery issues. For that amount of money, I would also request that JK somehow shows proof that it's actually his documents and him.


Whatever the case, this is all moot because we have a one-sided situation. If KJ can't prove it, he won't make the bet, he would only be willing to make the bet if he is 100% certain he could prove it, and you would never take him up on the bet if he did in fact agreed to it, since you know that's the case as well. So it seems now the only place to go is for one of you to make up one or more conditions that you know the other person won't accept.

[MisterV]

Have the escrow redact your SS number and address from the returns / IRS summaries, then let Singer briefly view the redacted documents.

That should satisfy the concerns of the two of you.

[coach belly]

Have the escrow redact your SS number and address from the returns / IRS summaries, then let Singer briefly view the redacted documents.

Or tewlj could post photos of the redacted documents on this forum today, and Singer can view them here.

[kewlJ]

Look, here is the situation. For 20+ years Rob Singer has trolled the AP community on numerous forums. He has had all kinds of claims during that time. 10 years worth of progressive wagering wins totaling millions. Later amended to 4 years to make room for the double up bug claim which he stole from a news account. I don't even know all the claims.

During that time, again 20 years mind you, Rob resisted any and all calls to show anything colaborating his claims. He had no reason not to like it would put his AP career in danger as he claimed not to even be an AP and second at that time machine players, weren't as scrutinized, and revealing identity wouldn't be as big a deal as say a blackjack player. Today things have changed and machine players are in as much danger, but back then, he had no excuse.

BUT he NEVER showed anything colaborating anything! And that is fine....that is his right. No one is on trial, nor need prove anything. These are anonymous message boards. But I will be damned if he even has the right to ask, let alone demand as he does that of others.

Now it is true, that I was considering showing proof of my claims to a third party, like Dan Druff, although it was never discussed with dan Druff if he even wanted to be involved. I had 2 stipulations. 1) that Singer at no time have access to my personal information and that 2) A financial agreement, basically a bet, so that I could profit which would offer me some protection in the event that my identy was revealed and it hampered my ability to play and earn money.

The first stipulation was never ever agreed to, not even close to an agreement, no where near even on the same page. So there is no renegging involved. The second stipulation now appears to be out of the question as there is no means to enfporce and agreement or contract to insure collection of money due.

End of story.

Now if Rob wants to link to any thread discussion when he EVER colaborated any of his many claims, I guess we can talk. I am not sure exactly what there is to talk about because the facts will remain that we are miles apart on stipulation #1 and stipulation #2 simply can't not be met to my satifaction based on what the attorney has stated.

But I am NOT going to be bullied and pressure by a guy who refused to show anything for decades, and the one time he did have an agreement with Arci, he completely renegged.

[kewlJ]

Axelwolf, MisterV, I am sure you know as I do and everyone else right now, just what Rob's play is. He set the stipulation that he must see my taxes and personal information because he knows I will not agree to that. and if I don't he will claim victory.

Now if some compromise position were reached where he could see tax documents, with my information redacted, he will never accept that and you know it, I know it, everyone knows it. He will say no proof that information belongs to me.

And finally, if I agreed to let him see documents unredacted, he will simply claim they are falsified, while getting access to my personal information, which is what he really wants.

So there is no way for me to win the wager. Besides such a wager being illegal and uncollectable because any agreement, contract can not be enforced.

So Axelwolf, MisterV, please stop playing into Rob's trolling games. The mistake I made yesterday was even considering getting involved in these troll games. I have seen it all before. We all have seen it all before. I should have known better.

[AxelWolf]

If this was all legit and you could get 505k, I think you would be foolish not to. With over 5 years of income all at once, I'm certain you could figure out how to manage card counting and not get blown out of the water. Obviously, you would have him sign a confidentiality agreement with some type of penalty if he were to break it.

[Rob.Singer]

I have absolutely no interest in that. I have never had an interest in that. All your bullying don't change that. If Arci did that, that is on him. I think he was stupid for doing so. And frankly what did that get him? You have never accepted what the arbitrator (former owner here) said. Even if for some odd reason I wanted to do that, had some bizarre thing about proving myself to an anonymous internet forum....I still wouldn't do it out of principal.

The only reason arci was foolish is because his records in no way matched his claims here. And that's exactly why you have no interest in doing so.

I wish you would stop lying. Stop your lying or "spoofing" or whatever narcissistic nonsense you spend your days touting.


If "his records in no way matched his claims here," then dig up the claims. Where's the quotes? Where's the specifics? What, people are supposed to think you're the forum historian with an eidetic memory? You're on this forum. Go find some arci quotes where's he's claiming specific numbers for the years he sent in his tax returns.

Just stop bullshitting about arci, how about it? Go ahead -- dig up the posts with arci's alleged monetary claims for the years he sent in his taxes. Let's see them. If you're too lazy to do it, maybe Alan Mendelson can help out and explain what specific figures arci used in his alleged forum claims.

Note: "Singer" will now go out to dinner. For three or four days.

I have a great memory red, something you lack. I remember arci lost his wife to renal failure because he chose to keep dragging his wife into +EV vp situations in Nevada rather than allow her to rest. I also remember his 30-yr. old son couldn't take it and chose to end it all with a narcotics overdose. And this once fine family became the poster child for what addictive AP play in LV can actually do to some.

[Rob.Singer]

Haleluju!!! Only took me stating it a dozen time for you to understand.




There is a reason actually and I hinted to it. I didn't want to spell it out because I didn't want to offend anyone that might be involved as an arbitrator. The single word explanation is 'collusion'. What is stopping either party, you or I with colluding with the arbitrator and splitting the proceeds should he rule in our favor? That is a scenario that I could lose, while knowing that I have actually won. And thus I weighed what I was willing to risk.

But again, moot point at the moment.

All you're showing here is more paranoia nonsense muddying up what should be an otherwise very simple endeavor. And why all the obfuscating? Because you know your collar does not match your cuffs.

If what he has said comes close to matching up (let's say within a 15% margin ) would you not agree that for the most part what he has been saying regarding what he makes per year is credible? Yes or no?

Someome reread what MR.V said... Something like that seem like it would solve any tomfoolery issues. For that amount of money, I would also request that JK somehow shows proof that it's actually his documents and him.


Whatever the case, this is all moot because we have a one-sided situation. If KJ can't prove it, he won't make the bet, he would only be willing to make the bet if he is 100% certain he could prove it, and you would never take him up on the bet if he did in fact agreed to it, since you know that's the case as well. So it seems now the only place to go is for one of you to make up one or more conditions that you know the other person won't accept.

Within 15% is fine.

I'm not going into this blind and kew knows it. When I offered a bet amount it's because I know I won't lose. He OTOH obviously knows what I know-- that he's been lying many times over for the sake of his internet forum character concoction. The proof? He didn't ask you or anybody else to help him put up a whole lot more cash. There are no more conditions than we e already brought up, and most of them are his.

[AxelWolf]

Have the escrow redact your SS number and address from the returns / IRS summaries, then let Singer briefly view the redacted documents.

Or tewlj could post photos of the redacted documents on this forum today, and Singer can view them here.

And why would he want to do that? There is no real upside unless he cares more about what his haters think than any possible downsides and the trouble. Then there is no guarantee people won't claim it's doctored somehow. The haters will just move on to something else to harass him about.

[AxelWolf]

All you're showing here is more paranoia nonsense muddying up what should be an otherwise very simple endeavor. And why all the obfuscating? Because you know your collar does not match your cuffs.

If what he has said comes close to matching up (let's say within a 15% margin ) would you not agree that for the most part what he has been saying regarding what he makes per year is credible? Yes or no?

Someome reread what MR.V said... Something like that seem like it would solve any tomfoolery issues. For that amount of money, I would also request that JK somehow shows proof that it's actually his documents and him.


Whatever the case, this is all moot because we have a one-sided situation. If KJ can't prove it, he won't make the bet, he would only be willing to make the bet if he is 100% certain he could prove it, and you would never take him up on the bet if he did in fact agreed to it, since you know that's the case as well. So it seems now the only place to go is for one of you to make up one or more conditions that you know the other person won't accept.

Within 15% is fine.

I'm not going into this blind and kew knows it. When I offered a bet amount it's because I know I won't lose. He OTOH obviously knows what I know-- that he's been lying many times over for the sake of his internet forum character concoction. The proof? He didn't ask you or anybody else to help him put up a whole lot more cash. There are no more conditions than we e already brought up, and most of them are his.

I really haven't been reading each and every post fully, so I'm not sure who said what and what's been changed or the exact conditions. You might both be bluffing knowing full well this will never take place.

[kewlJ]

If this was all legit and you could get 505k, I think you would be foolish not to. With over 5 years of income all at once, I'm certain you could figure out how to manage card counting and not get blown out of the water. Obviously, you would have him sign a confidentiality agreement with some type of penalty if he were to break it.

First there is no way for me to guarantee I will get paid.

And second, are you seriously suggesting that I have Rob Singer sign a confidentiality agreement and trust him to keep his word? And with no less than my career on the line?

Come on man. I know you love the drama, but get real.

[Rob.Singer]

Look, here is the situation. For 20+ years Rob Singer has trolled the AP community on numerous forums. He has had all kinds of claims during that time. 10 years worth of progressive wagering wins totaling millions. Later amended to 4 years to make room for the double up bug claim which he stole from a news account. I don't even know all the claims.

During that time, again 20 years mind you, Rob resisted any and all calls to show anything colaborating his claims. He had no reason not to like it would put his AP career in danger as he claimed not to even be an AP and second at that time machine players, weren't as scrutinized, and revealing identity wouldn't be as big a deal as say a blackjack player. Today things have changed and machine players are in as much danger, but back then, he had no excuse.

BUT he NEVER showed anything colaborating anything! And that is fine....that is his right. No one is on trial, nor need prove anything. These are anonymous message boards. But I will be damned if he even has the right to ask, let alone demand as he does that of others.

Now it is true, that I was considering showing proof of my claims to a third party, like Dan Druff, although it was never discussed with dan Druff if he even wanted to be involved. I had 2 stipulations. 1) that Singer at no time have access to my personal information and that 2) A financial agreement, basically a bet, so that I could profit which would offer me some protection in the event that my identy was revealed and it hampered my ability to play and earn money.

The first stipulation was never ever agreed to, not even close to an agreement, no where near even on the same page. So there is no renegging involved. The second stipulation now appears to be out of the question as there is no means to enfporce and agreement or contract to insure collection of money due.

End of story.

Now if Rob wants to link to any thread discussion when he EVER colaborated any of his many claims, I guess we can talk. I am not sure exactly what there is to talk about because the facts will remain that we are miles apart on stipulation #1 and stipulation #2 simply can't not be met to my satifaction based on what the attorney has stated.

But I am NOT going to be bullied and pressure by a guy who refused to show anything for decades, and the one time he did have an agreement with Arci, he completely renegged.

That's a lot of blah blah blah kew. I've ready offered right here to go over my financials with you on a computer as a freebie part of the bet.. All I get is silence. And those who remember my "GT Columnist Lays Down The Gauntlet" bet with Fezzik/the HP crowd remain with unforgettable hate.

You're using your paranoia about your "personal information" as an escape clause. What personal info are you so worried about? You've already got most or all of my same info and it doesn't matter at all. Your address? Who cares? Your ss#? WTF would you be worried about, especially if everything you claim is true? But it ISNT true is it!

Please wise....and man up.

[kewlJ]

You might both be bluffing knowing full well this will never take place.

I wasn't bluffing. I know that I can prove my claims, and was thinking a guaranteed chance to make money. BUT, then you consider who you are dealing with and not only are there no guarantees of anything, but it becomes a real longshot. And at the expense of my identity and jeopardising my career.

[Rob.Singer]

If this was all legit and you could get 505k, I think you would be foolish not to. With over 5 years of income all at once, I'm certain you could figure out how to manage card counting and not get blown out of the water. Obviously, you would have him sign a confidentiality agreement with some type of penalty if he were to break it.

First there is no way for me to guarantee I will get paid.

And second, are you seriously suggesting that I have Rob Singer sign a confidentiality agreement and trust him to keep his word? And with no less than my career on the line?

Come on man. I know you love the drama, but get real.

Kew, I'll adopt you if I lost and refused to pay. Besides, you gotta know such a career is a going nowhere career.

[kewlJ]

I guess all I have done is make Mr Irrelevent, relevant again. He is full of wind again.

[coach belly]

And why would he want to do that?

For the same reasons he made the winning claims in the first place.

He offered unsolicited winning claims...why did he do that?

And why bother making the claims if unwilling to corroborate them with something?

Especially since posting the redacted documents carries no risk, and very little effort.

Unless the documents don't match the story he's been telling...that's the downside.

[redietz]

The only reason arci was foolish is because his records in no way matched his claims here. And that's exactly why you have no interest in doing so.

I wish you would stop lying. Stop your lying or "spoofing" or whatever narcissistic nonsense you spend your days touting.


If "his records in no way matched his claims here," then dig up the claims. Where's the quotes? Where's the specifics? What, people are supposed to think you're the forum historian with an eidetic memory? You're on this forum. Go find some arci quotes where's he's claiming specific numbers for the years he sent in his tax returns.

Just stop bullshitting about arci, how about it? Go ahead -- dig up the posts with arci's alleged monetary claims for the years he sent in his taxes. Let's see them. If you're too lazy to do it, maybe Alan Mendelson can help out and explain what specific figures arci used in his alleged forum claims.

Note: "Singer" will now go out to dinner. For three or four days.

I have a great memory red, something you lack. I remember arci lost his wife to renal failure because he chose to keep dragging his wife into +EV vp situations in Nevada rather than allow her to rest. I also remember his 30-yr. old son couldn't take it and chose to end it all with a narcotics overdose. And this once fine family became the poster child for what addictive AP play in LV can actually do to some.

And you should therefore be able to pull up those specific "claims" with specific numbers without delay then, eh? You don't have any numbers do you, Rob? You don't have any posts with specific numbers for those tax years of arci's, do you? Do you really think "Rob Remembers" substitutes for evidence?

You just make crap up, and then you get called on it, and you have nothing. Like right now. Go get the "claims." Get the numbers. Try not to take too many weeks for dinner.

Take your time. I'll wait.

[MaxPen]

Axelwolf, MisterV, I am sure you know as I do and everyone else right now, just what Rob's play is. He set the stipulation that he must see my taxes and personal information because he knows I will not agree to that. and if I don't he will claim victory.

Now if some compromise position were reached where he could see tax documents, with my information redacted, he will never accept that and you know it, I know it, everyone knows it. He will say no proof that information belongs to me.

And finally, if I agreed to let him see documents unredacted, he will simply claim they are falsified, while getting access to my personal information, which is what he really wants.

So there is no way for me to win the wager. Besides such a wager being illegal and uncollectable because any agreement, contract can not be enforced.

So Axelwolf, MisterV, please stop playing into Rob's trolling games. The mistake I made yesterday was even considering getting involved in these troll games. I have seen it all before. We all have seen it all before. I should have known better.

Exactly,,,,

You should have known better.

[mcap]

I wonder how much money Rob would have to borrow from his children in order to settle up if he had actually agreed to Kewlj’s terms.

[MisterV]

KJ, maybe you should play Rob like a fly fisherman plays a brookie.

Easy does it, then reel him in.

I'd consult with a Nevada attorney (hello, Bob N.) before committing, and if you want to move forward have the attorney draft a betting agreement (if legal: may not be, then forget it) for the two of you to sign as well as escrow instructions.

Singer has no basis to insist that the IRS mail him your tax info: he should be satisfied by merely viewing it at the escrow's office.

Of course he insists on this knowing full well you wouldn't agree; maybe you should call his bluff?

You could have the agreement cover this; e.g. you will disclose the info to him AFTER the money has been paid into escrow by the two of you, and if he loses and balks at paying then the agreement says he forfeits his bet as the agreed price you charge him to view your info.

Stated differently: let the guy have it IF it guarantees you a life-changing pay day.

But of course we know this rocket will never leave the launching pad ...