Boyd Mailer

[kewlJ]

So This thread is in reference To Boyd Mailer offers in Las Vegas. I hope this is the right sub-section?

Last year when the casinos shutdown in March, I was at the top of my free play mailer cycle with Boyd getting $900 free play a month. Only got to use half of that month of March when casinos closed. When Casinos reopened in June, I received no offers, so I emailed them and they gave me what they had given me for March. But the cycle very quickly went downhill, July I got $450, August $100 and nothing after that.

Now I had sort of given up playing machines to focus on blackjack because free play mailer offers were drying up and I don't play blackjack at any Boyd property at the moment, so I don't beleive I have set foot in a Boyd Property for a solid year, since Last August. If I did, I am forgetting.

So today received $125 in free play for September. Small amount, but seems strange. I haven't played anything for a solid year. I am guessing Boyd (and probably other casinos) are hurting and trying to draw players back.

Anyone else get offers, even small offers, out of the blue like this?

[jpfromla]

So This thread is in reference To Boyd Mailer offers in Las Vegas. I hope this is the right sub-section?

Last year when the casinos shutdown in March, I was at the top of my free play mailer cycle with Boyd getting $900 free play a month. Only got to use half of that month of March when casinos closed. When Casinos reopened in June, I received no offers, so I emailed them and they gave me what they had given me for March. But the cycle very quickly went downhill, July I got $450, August $100 and nothing after that.

Now I had sort of given up playing machines to focus on blackjack because free play mailer offers were drying up and I don't play blackjack at any Boyd property at the moment, so I don't beleive I have set foot in a Boyd Property for a solid year, since Last August. If I did, I am forgetting.

So today received $125 in free play for September. Small amount, but seems strange. I haven't played anything for a solid year. I am guessing Boyd (and probably other casinos) are hurting and trying to draw players back.

Anyone else get offers, even small offers, out of the blue like this?

For the first part of the year, Boyd (and other Vegas companies) were focusing on what the Boyd CEO called the “unrated player” or aka stimulus money. Now that that money is spent, kids are in school, people need to go to work and that lockdown pent up demand is done (plus the required masking is back) they are going back to their old clients with “Oh, we miss you emails”. I was on the Strip every month this year and clearly July was crazy busy, but August was not.

[kewlJ]

I was on the Strip every month this year and clearly July was crazy busy, but August was not.

I probably shouldn't devulge this, but I have been playing the strip on weekend nights lately. With masks back and crowded conditions, it is an opportunity for me to bump up in stakes playing in the shadows of bigger weekend night bettor. The problem is the past few weekend nights I have played, have not been crowded, nor had as many of those bigger bettors, to play in their shadows.

This weekend is a holiday weekend, so maybe I can squeeze one more in, but I suspect after Labor Day, weekend traffic will slow even more. I think this strategy might be coming to an end for me for the time being. We will see. I sort of hate the strip anyway, but liked the added EV that higher stakes play affords me.

[jpfromla]

I was on the Strip every month this year and clearly July was crazy busy, but August was not.

I probably shouldn't devulge this, but I have been playing the strip on weekend nights lately. With masks back and crowded conditions, it is an opportunity for me to bump up in stakes playing in the shadows of bigger weekend night bettor. The problem is the past few weekend nights I have played, have not been crowded, nor had as many of those bigger bettors, to play in their shadows.

This weekend is a holiday weekend, so maybe I can squeeze one more in, but I suspect after Labor Day, weekend traffic will slow even more. I think this strategy might be coming to an end for me for the time being. We will see. I sort of hate the strip anyway, but liked the added EV that higher stakes play affords me.

Raider home games might add a boost.

[kewlJ]

Raider home games might add a boost.

Hadn't thought of that. Not sure that is the right crowd though. It is the southern Cali crowd that provides the money for the weekends. I don't think northern Cali is that same type. I remember last years home opener, which fans couldn't even go to the game drew mega crowds from Oakland. All those crazies wanted to do was drink and party, not so much gamble. But worth a look to see what happens.

[The Boz]

I was on the Strip every month this year and clearly July was crazy busy, but August was not.

I probably shouldn't devulge this, but I have been playing the strip on weekend nights lately. With masks back and crowded conditions, it is an opportunity for me to bump up in stakes playing in the shadows of bigger weekend night bettor. The problem is the past few weekend nights I have played, have not been crowded, nor had as many of those bigger bettors, to play in their shadows.

This weekend is a holiday weekend, so maybe I can squeeze one more in, but I suspect after Labor Day, weekend traffic will slow even more. I think this strategy might be coming to an end for me for the time being. We will see. I sort of hate the strip anyway, but liked the added EV that higher stakes play affords me.

Haven’t you learned the casinos CHEAT on Holiday weekends yet???

As for offers, my experience has been the same, offer amounts were down this year but are coming back higher for fall at places I play on a semi regular basis. But the other thing at play is the attempt to get players who haven’t played in a while back. I am seeing this in AC since I haven’t been there is over a year, they are sending larger offers. I would think this might be what you are seeing at Boyd, an attempt to get you back. Then future offers will go back to based on your play volume.

[Rob.Singer]

So This thread is in reference To Boyd Mailer offers in Las Vegas. I hope this is the right sub-section?

Last year when the casinos shutdown in March, I was at the top of my free play mailer cycle with Boyd getting $900 free play a month. Only got to use half of that month of March when casinos closed. When Casinos reopened in June, I received no offers, so I emailed them and they gave me what they had given me for March. But the cycle very quickly went downhill, July I got $450, August $100 and nothing after that.

Now I had sort of given up playing machines to focus on blackjack because free play mailer offers were drying up and I don't play blackjack at any Boyd property at the moment, so I don't beleive I have set foot in a Boyd Property for a solid year, since Last August. If I did, I am forgetting.

So today received $125 in free play for September. Small amount, but seems strange. I haven't played anything for a solid year. I am guessing Boyd (and probably other casinos) are hurting and trying to draw players back.

Anyone else get offers, even small offers, out of the blue like this?

Why are you posting a story like this? Don't you realize how many times you've stated that you don't spend a lot of time playing machines? Now suddenly you claim you're getting $450-$900/month "mailers" for freeplay. Do you even have any idea how much play is required to attain those kind of numbers? In the spring I ran over $200k thru Circa's machines in less than 2 days because I play up to $25 machines, and the most they've sent me is $300. GVR just sent me $400 as a result of some similar play earlier. And Boyd's sending out higher offers of freeplay to a BJ player?

You never think things thru before you write them kew. Now let's see you concoct your way out of this one.

[jpfromla]

Raider home games might add a boost.

Hadn't thought of that. Not sure that is the right crowd though. It is the southern Cali crowd that provides the money for the weekends. I don't think northern Cali is that same type. I remember last years home opener, which fans couldn't even go to the game drew mega crowds from Oakland. All those crazies wanted to do was drink and party, not so much gamble. But worth a look to see what happens.

I’m thinking in terms of the away teams that will come to Vegas. I predict the Vegas will be the most traveled NFL destination and the out-of-Towners will be coming in to see their team, courtesy of their casino market.

[Mission146]

Why are you posting a story like this? Don't you realize how many times you've stated that you don't spend a lot of time playing machines? Now suddenly you claim you're getting $450-$900/month "mailers" for freeplay. Do you even have any idea how much play is required to attain those kind of numbers? In the spring I ran over $200k thru Circa's machines in less than 2 days because I play up to $25 machines, and the most they've sent me is $300. GVR just sent me $400 as a result of some similar play earlier. And Boyd's sending out higher offers of freeplay to a BJ player?

You never think things thru before you write them kew. Now let's see you concoct your way out of this one.

You think getting $450-$900 a month in mail is a lot?

I don't know how aggressive they are about killing cards at Boyd, but if they're not super aggressive (and you're not maintaining your mail), then it likely wouldn't cost very much. There are locals casinos (outside of Vegas) where getting $450/month mail is a pretty trivial affair.

Anyway, I can't speak to the truth or falsity of KewlJ's claim because I don't know what Boyd mail looks like. That said, if you think the mere fact that he said $450-$900 a month in mail is discrediting, then that just proves that you either completely have no idea what you're talking about or are completely baffled by the notion that one casino might market differently from another.

KewlJ also referred to, "Top of my cycle," which implies (to me) that he's not continuously maintaining the mail. He's probably generating good mail offers, picking up the free play, waiting for the card to, "Reset," and then doing it all over again. I imagine that he's probably doing the same thing with the cards of his brother, partner and perhaps deceased partner. (No offense is meant, but why wouldn't you use the card?)

[Mission146]

One other thing, I assume he wouldn't have generated the Free Play playing Blackjack. At least, not live Blackjack.

Sorry, the rest of your argument was so inane that I forgot to make that minor point.

[kewlJ]

Big mouth Singer chiming in again when he has no clue what he is talking about. Mission understood exactly what I was saying and is exactly right. I was at the top of my cycle, meaning that is my top amount after a big coin in. When I get to that point I simply play through the free play for 4 or 5 months, until the amount dwindles and then hit another big coin in.

And it has nothing to do with blackjack. I already stated I don't play blackjack at Boyd. Haven't for a couple years. no decent games. And places I do play blackjack I mostly play unrated, so blackjack never has anytghing to do with my mailer offers.

Rob jumps in with his offers from Circa and stations for playing a similar amount. Well Circa / the D where I play also has different lower offers for that amount. And stations reduced their offers for any amount of decent play several years ago. So you are comparing apples to oranges. One of the things about free play mailer offers was to find the places that still give decent amounts for not all that much play. Unfortunately like I have been saying, fewer and fewer now do. That is why I have all but stopped the whole free play angle.

[Ozzy]

Why are you posting a story like this? Don't you realize how many times you've stated that you don't spend a lot of time playing machines? Now suddenly you claim you're getting $450-$900/month "mailers" for freeplay. Do you even have any idea how much play is required to attain those kind of numbers? In the spring I ran over $200k thru Circa's machines in less than 2 days because I play up to $25 machines, and the most they've sent me is $300. GVR just sent me $400 as a result of some similar play earlier. And Boyd's sending out higher offers of freeplay to a BJ player?

You never think things thru before you write them kew. Now let's see you concoct your way out of this one.

You think getting $450-$900 a month in mail is a lot?

I don't know how aggressive they are about killing cards at Boyd, but if they're not super aggressive (and you're not maintaining your mail), then it likely wouldn't cost very much. There are locals casinos (outside of Vegas) where getting $450/month mail is a pretty trivial affair.

Anyway, I can't speak to the truth or falsity of KewlJ's claim because I don't know what Boyd mail looks like. That said, if you think the mere fact that he said $450-$900 a month in mail is discrediting, then that just proves that you either completely have no idea what you're talking about or are completely baffled by the notion that one casino might market differently from another.

KewlJ also referred to, "Top of my cycle," which implies (to me) that he's not continuously maintaining the mail. He's probably generating good mail offers, picking up the free play, waiting for the card to, "Reset," and then doing it all over again. I imagine that he's probably doing the same thing with the cards of his brother, partner and perhaps deceased partner. (No offense is meant, but why wouldn't you use the card?)

Getting 800-900$ month has been getting increasingly difficult at most stores the last few years. Not so long ago getting multiple times that amount was fairly pedestrian with little risks involved. Times have changed for better and worse, adapting to changing environments is necessary in order to prosper in today's changing market.

[Mission146]

Getting 800-900$ month has been getting increasingly difficult at most stores the last few years. Not so long ago getting multiple times that amount was fairly pedestrian with little risks involved. Times have changed for better and worse, adapting to changing environments is necessary in order to prosper in today's changing market.

I agree with that. I guess I should have also specified that I was referring to pre-Covid numbers.

Just prior to Covid, I was working mail (mostly maintaining at one, because it was profitable even maintaining) at two casinos, personally.

1.) One casino required a greater amount of coin-in than did the other, but the mail made up for it. At one casino, you'd run through $10,000 on a Video Poker game that had a return north of 98% and would see something in the neighborhood of two grand in Free Play (per card) over the next six months. I did not maintain offers at this casino as it would not have been profitable.

What ended up happening at this casino is that the overall value of mail didn't really change, but the terms of what I call, "Supplemental," offers did. When I say, "Supplemental," I mean the Free Play offers that were in addition to the normal, "Range," of dates. The change in the terms is that most of them started to become a little section that had one of two, "Pull Tabs," or some such, to decide the amount of Free Play...before that, it was usually some kiosk thing you did. The problem is that the casino actually did check ID on that, so that's what ended any card running there. It would have still had an expected profit, but not such that it would have been worth the time with those offers gone.

2.) The other casino would be over $400/month in mail, all included, with only $1,000 coin-in at 98% Video Poker needed to maintain. "Maintain," means you do $1,000 coin-in every time you do a Free Play pick up on a card. I maintained two cards at this casino and just let any other cards taper off the amounts by the normal (and very predictable) schedule. I haven't done any cards there post-Covid because I used to practically live on the casino's doorstep, but now I am farther away from it, so I don't want to have to commit to picking up each mail within a fairly tight date range. For cards not being maintained, the $1,000 would actually get you more than $1,000 in total mail! LOL. That's over a six-month period, though. The best part about maintaining cards is that a multiplier day almost always fell in the date ranges, which added 2% to the Video Poker and made it +EV by itself.

PA Skill Games have also been spreading and represent 100% risk-free money. There's also been some decent online casino stuff. I do some vulturing here and there, but I don't really want to be committed to doing anything inside of the date ranges. I also don't like being in the first casino (which is now the closer one) as long as running the coin-in requires.

In total, the beginning of the cycle for both of these casinos was either just north of $450 or just South of $450. The second of the two casinos even had much better mail to get than that, and relatively easily (but requiring more coin-in), but it only worked if the card belonged to someone well out of the area. They were obviously trying to attract people to come back to the casino when they were in town, but not really giving those offers expecting that there would be someone picking them up every time.

I'd be surprised if the mail at Casino #2 has changed a ton, but I don't really know. The coin-in/offer levels I am aware of are no longer justified by the travel unless I do more cards each cycle point than I am comfortable doing or want to do.

Anyway, compared to what some other guys are doing on the card running front, I am a rank amateur. Even as a rank amateur, I still know that $450 mail is readily achievable...you just have to know that the mail at a place is good to begin with and, "Test," to find the sweet spots on the coin-in side of the equation.

Also, with six figures coin-in required for $400 a month (as Singer reported), anyone even remotely in the know would simply say, "The mail there sucks."***

***CLARIFICATION---The mail there might not always suck if one finds the best sweet spot coin-in:free play, but $400/month mail on six figures coin-in isn't what anyone would consider a promising sign. On the other hand, if the $400/month represents the top-tier of offers and the coin-in required to get that is extremely well under six figures, then maybe it's good. I definitely wouldn't want to test it, though.

[kewlJ]

The above is an excellent post by mission. Explains pretty much everything and much of what I did was along the same lines.

I don't like video poker play or machine play, or "chasing mailer offers". I am a blackjack card counter AP and that is what I enjoy. The only reason I got into this supplemental for me, chasing mailer freeplay was because when I relocated to Las vegas a fellow AP, convinced me that not doing so was leaving money on the table. He was right. At the time Vegas casinos, especially the local type places were really competeing for that local player and offering real strong mailer free play offers for just a moderate amount of coin in.

The fellow AP also shared with me some of the top places to get me started. At the time, Hard Rock, Westgate (might have been LVH at the time), Boyd, Stations, Silver7, and even Arizona Charlies were offering real strong mailers for a fairly small amount of coin in. Club Fortune, was pretty good too. Again, I am talking fairly small or moderate coin in. 6 figure coin in to get back $400 in free play that Singer is talking about wouldn't even make my play list. That is garbage. That is for suckers, which explains why Singer is playing that.

Now for the most part all these places have cut back.....some to almost nothing. And that started before Covid came along. And I haven't kept up with what is really good and what isn't. I just wanted to get away from that whole chasing mailers thing after my partner passed. I have just wanted to focus on my blackjack play. I get 3-4 mailers a month now, when I used to get 30.

[jbjb]

Sorry, but i have to laugh when someone that only does blackjack card counting talks about "leaving money on the table".

Card counting is a waste of time and a "minimum wage" AP pursuit.

[kewlJ]

Sorry, but i have to laugh when someone that only does blackjack card counting talks about "leaving money on the table".

Card counting is a waste of time and a "minimum wage" AP pursuit.

I think you have made it clear that is how you feel.

Are you aware I have participated in many other forms of AP. Holecarding blackjack one summer after I moved to Vegas, even did some hole-carding of a non blackjack game last week with an out of town AP that shared the opportunity. I also played the big six wheel for 6 months and did real well.

But in the end, I like card counting. in my 17th year, I still enjoy playing the game (and even the game within the game) and enjoy supporting myself in this manner.

I don't know why, you and others like "King James" give me such a hard time about that? I am doing what I enjoy and am very happy with the money I make.

[Ozzy]

Sorry, but i have to laugh when someone that only does blackjack card counting talks about "leaving money on the table".

Card counting is a waste of time and a "minimum wage" AP pursuit.

I think you have made it clear that is how you feel.

Are you aware I have participated in many other forms of AP. Holecarding blackjack one summer after I moved to Vegas, even did some hole-carding of a non blackjack game last week with an out of town AP that shared the opportunity. I also played the big six wheel for 6 months and did real well.

But in the end, I like card counting. in my 17th year, I still enjoy playing the game (and even the game within the game) and enjoy supporting myself in this manner.

I don't know why, you and others like "King James" give me such a hard time about that? I am doing what I enjoy and am very happy with the money I make.

Your missing out you can be making the big bucks like "King Big John".

[Rob.Singer]

It's so meaningful that kew's forum apologists are willing to offer the obvious without explaining the only point that has anything to do with his claim. Let's see you do less pontificating and show more insight to him continuously announcing for years that he plays machines very little, if any, and now somehow comes up with freeplay numbers that are more out of whack than he is. $400/mo. with $1000 through? Apparently you don't play. And I love the stupid comment that kew plays bj and no freeplay is generated thru that. Thank you McFly.

[Rob.Singer]

Getting 800-900$ month has been getting increasingly difficult at most stores the last few years. Not so long ago getting multiple times that amount was fairly pedestrian with little risks involved. Times have changed for better and worse, adapting to changing environments is necessary in order to prosper in today's changing market.

I agree with that. I guess I should have also specified that I was referring to pre-Covid numbers.

Just prior to Covid, I was working mail (mostly maintaining at one, because it was profitable even maintaining) at two casinos, personally.

1.) One casino required a greater amount of coin-in than did the other, but the mail made up for it. At one casino, you'd run through $10,000 on a Video Poker game that had a return north of 98% and would see something in the neighborhood of two grand in Free Play (per card) over the next six months. I did not maintain offers at this casino as it would not have been profitable.

What ended up happening at this casino is that the overall value of mail didn't really change, but the terms of what I call, "Supplemental," offers did. When I say, "Supplemental," I mean the Free Play offers that were in addition to the normal, "Range," of dates. The change in the terms is that most of them started to become a little section that had one of two, "Pull Tabs," or some such, to decide the amount of Free Play...before that, it was usually some kiosk thing you did. The problem is that the casino actually did check ID on that, so that's what ended any card running there. It would have still had an expected profit, but not such that it would have been worth the time with those offers gone.

2.) The other casino would be over $400/month in mail, all included, with only $1,000 coin-in at 98% Video Poker needed to maintain. "Maintain," means you do $1,000 coin-in every time you do a Free Play pick up on a card. I maintained two cards at this casino and just let any other cards taper off the amounts by the normal (and very predictable) schedule. I haven't done any cards there post-Covid because I used to practically live on the casino's doorstep, but now I am farther away from it, so I don't want to have to commit to picking up each mail within a fairly tight date range. For cards not being maintained, the $1,000 would actually get you more than $1,000 in total mail! LOL. That's over a six-month period, though. The best part about maintaining cards is that a multiplier day almost always fell in the date ranges, which added 2% to the Video Poker and made it +EV by itself.

PA Skill Games have also been spreading and represent 100% risk-free money. There's also been some decent online casino stuff. I do some vulturing here and there, but I don't really want to be committed to doing anything inside of the date ranges. I also don't like being in the first casino (which is now the closer one) as long as running the coin-in requires.

In total, the beginning of the cycle for both of these casinos was either just north of $450 or just South of $450. The second of the two casinos even had much better mail to get than that, and relatively easily (but requiring more coin-in), but it only worked if the card belonged to someone well out of the area. They were obviously trying to attract people to come back to the casino when they were in town, but not really giving those offers expecting that there would be someone picking them up every time.

I'd be surprised if the mail at Casino #2 has changed a ton, but I don't really know. The coin-in/offer levels I am aware of are no longer justified by the travel unless I do more cards each cycle point than I am comfortable doing or want to do.

Anyway, compared to what some other guys are doing on the card running front, I am a rank amateur. Even as a rank amateur, I still know that $450 mail is readily achievable...you just have to know that the mail at a place is good to begin with and, "Test," to find the sweet spots on the coin-in side of the equation.

Also, with six figures coin-in required for $400 a month (as Singer reported), anyone even remotely in the know would simply say, "The mail there sucks."***

***CLARIFICATION---The mail there might not always suck if one finds the best sweet spot coin-in:free play, but $400/month mail on six figures coin-in isn't what anyone would consider a promising sign. On the other hand, if the $400/month represents the top-tier of offers and the coin-in required to get that is extremely well under six figures, then maybe it's good. I definitely wouldn't want to test it, though.

Here's another "clarification" but obvious only to those who actually know something: some properties either severely cut back or do not offer freeplay to winning players.

[kewlJ]

It's so meaningful that kew's forum apologists are willing to offer the obvious without explaining the only point that has anything to do with his claim. Let's see you do less pontificating and show more insight to him continuously announcing for years that he plays machines very little, if any, and now somehow comes up with freeplay numbers that are more out of whack than he is. $400/mo. with $1000 through? Apparently you don't play. And I love the stupid comment that kew plays bj and no freeplay is generated thru that. Thank you McFly.

The $450 amount from Boyd was 13 months ago, LAST July (2020), idiot. The amount I just got out of the blue was $125. You can't seem to get anything right.