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Thread: Why donít more casinos have self pay for jackpots?

  1. #21
    I take that back. I just thought of a way that could get messy, and it has nothing to do with hacking or data breeches.

  2. #22
    Mr. V's idea of self pay being only for High Limit and letting the manual Handpay being only for the normal Casino area is a good idea in Theory, but self pay should be for EVERYBODY, considering how many Vultures there are in Casinos. I was playing a game and near me, I personally saw a crowd SWARM near a Machine when a Player just minding his business got like 8 or 9 Quick Hit Symbols on a Quick Hit Game and the Machine started BLARING his Winning business, flashing and basically screaming,"Big Winner! Big Winner!" He looked troubled as the crowd swarmed near him to see. He seemed to be thinking,"Great. Now a whole bunch of Random People I don't even know now know that I got a $5,000 win! I'm going to get harassed for this money!" He CLEARLY didn't want the crownld to now that he won $5,000. A machine that you can manually turn off the sound and self pay would be beyond ideal.
    Last edited by Tasha; 09-09-2021 at 11:29 AM.
    https://photos.app.goo.gl/Zk2WAFzDcrJ7pjNB7

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  3. #23
    That is not what we mean when we use the term, "Vulture."

  4. #24
    Originally Posted by MisterV View Post
    One stumbling block: how to generate and deliver the required W2-G to the bettor?

    I suppose the solution is to have the casino mail it to his LKA, as opposed to delivering it to him on the gaming floor.
    They mail it, or deliver electronically.

    You donít really need copies anyway for self pay since self pay is only available if you donít withhold taxes.

    When you file your taxes you only need to submit copies of W2Gs that have had taxes withheld.

    For W2Gs that have no taxes taken out, you need to know the total amount of payouts you received with W2Gs but you do not need to submit copies of these with your tax returns.

  5. #25
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    I don't know why self pay would have to be limited to situations where no taxes are taken out.

    Should be easy enough to have an option for tax withholding, and then allow the bettor to enter the dollar amount he wants withheld.
    What, Me Worry?

  6. #26
    Originally Posted by MisterV View Post
    I don't know why self pay would have to be limited to situations where no taxes are taken out.

    Should be easy enough to have an option for tax withholding, and then allow the bettor to enter the dollar amount he wants withheld.
    I don’t know why they couldn’t have models come out and pleasure us too whenever we hit a hand pay but for the moment I would just be happy if more casinos started offering self pay at all to avoid the tips and long waits.

  7. #27
    Self pay is always screwy. I don't think I've seen it ever offered on the main floor, only in high limit. Even in HL, a lot of machines are screwy and it doesn't even work on them. Of the machines where it does work, occasionally it'll just fuck up randomly. Even when it's advertised in HL, lots of people don't even do it. Hell, most people in HL aren't even playing "high" limit stuff where handpays are common. You'll see people playing shit like $1 5-play. They may hit one handpay (AWAK, RF, or dealt quads) for the session...2 if they're lucky.

    Only one place I've played where you are just automatically set to self-pay, the other places you have to tell them before you start your session that you want self pay enabled for your session. So it is or can be a hassle, especially if you don't hit any jackpots. You find a slot dog, tell them you want to do self-pay / fast-pay / whatever, half the time they're like, "what is that? huh?". Eventually they'll print out an empty w2g for you to sign. Then at the end of the session, you tell them to close you out and they'll print up your finalized w2g, you sign it, and you're on your way. The only place I've played where you're automatically setup for self-pay (not having to tell them before each session), they didn't even give me a fucking w2g. They were supposed to email one to me, but never did.


    Even on the main floor -- look around. A vast majority of people are not playing something where they can even realistically get a w2g. Are they going to setup self-pay just for that one time a year, if that, that they hit a monster bonus round on $0.50/spin and trigger a w2g? No.
    #FreeTyde

  8. #28
    Originally Posted by RS__ View Post
    Self pay is always screwy. I don't think I've seen it ever offered on the main floor, only in high limit. Even in HL, a lot of machines are screwy and it doesn't even work on them. Of the machines where it does work, occasionally it'll just fuck up randomly. Even when it's advertised in HL, lots of people don't even do it. Hell, most people in HL aren't even playing "high" limit stuff where handpays are common. You'll see people playing shit like $1 5-play. They may hit one handpay (AWAK, RF, or dealt quads) for the session...2 if they're lucky.

    Only one place I've played where you are just automatically set to self-pay, the other places you have to tell them before you start your session that you want self pay enabled for your session. So it is or can be a hassle, especially if you don't hit any jackpots. You find a slot dog, tell them you want to do self-pay / fast-pay / whatever, half the time they're like, "what is that? huh?". Eventually they'll print out an empty w2g for you to sign. Then at the end of the session, you tell them to close you out and they'll print up your finalized w2g, you sign it, and you're on your way. The only place I've played where you're automatically setup for self-pay (not having to tell them before each session), they didn't even give me a fucking w2g. They were supposed to email one to me, but never did.


    Even on the main floor -- look around. A vast majority of people are not playing something where they can even realistically get a w2g. Are they going to setup self-pay just for that one time a year, if that, that they hit a monster bonus round on $0.50/spin and trigger a w2g? No.
    Valid points, but a lot of higher rollers the most profitable customers for the casino play stuff like $1 Ainsworth’s & Konami's or $5 denom machines with $10 to $20 bets or more standard & these are the people that hit a lot of handpays.

    Sure people who do .30 cent bets aren’t going to need self pay, but outside of the high limit rooms even most of the new penny machines now are coming out with $6, $7.50, $8.80 or more max bets so even regular players that like to max bet are hitting a lot more handpays now.

    The casinos that jump on self pay first are going to have an edge in both attracting bigger bet players and reducing labor costs.

  9. #29
    Originally Posted by Mission146 View Post
    That is not what we mean when we use the term, "Vulture."
    I was using "Vultures," as in "Leeches." I know that "Vultures," is more like People who wait for Ploppies who will leave a bunch of multipliers open on a Ultimate X machine and take advantage of that or worse trick them off the machine in the first place. I remember a Culture in that term saying something like,"A Ploppy had a bunch of Multipliers on an Ultimate X machine. I claimed that another Machine was hot and had been giving out at least 5 Jackpots just that day and he should try it." He took my "good advice," and went to the other machine. I sat down and played his Multipliers and won big money off of his Multipliers.
    https://photos.app.goo.gl/Zk2WAFzDcrJ7pjNB7

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  10. #30
    Originally Posted by Tasha View Post

    I was using "Vultures," as in "Leeches." I know that "Vultures," is more like People who wait for Ploppies who will leave a bunch of multipliers open on a Ultimate X machine and take advantage of that or worse trick them off the machine in the first place. I remember a Culture in that term saying something like,"A Ploppy had a bunch of Multipliers on an Ultimate X machine. I claimed that another Machine was hot and had been giving out at least 5 Jackpots just that day and he should try it." He took my "good advice," and went to the other machine. I sat down and played his Multipliers and won big money off of his Multipliers.
    That would still not usually be considered a vulture, though I'm sure you know that.

  11. #31
    I suspect a casino knows how much money this will cost their attendants in tips and they're afraid of employee loss and other unintended consequences. On a higher level, we also don't know if the IRS will be happy. Truthfully with this system, abuse and fraud could happen. I'm not personally aware of the real world details of the system, so I am speculating based on what and how the system works to my assumptions. I'd predict people would pay to use another's card just to avoid tax headaches. People would 100% be committing a crime and a conspiracy, but if a casino didn't care, they wouldn't care. Then things would get out of hand.

    So what happens then? Patrons become criminals inside the casino and the casino has to have crime occur at the casino. Then casinos would be barring their own good customers who were too greedy to just be greedy enough to gamble in the casino. I assume it would be perjury the gamblers would commit hitting a button on a screen to self-pay the jackpot. People could even commit this crime not knowing it is a crime. People always want to have someone else claim a jackpot usually for financial reasons(such as owing child support or taxes and also possibly be excluded.) They also want the money to go to the other they are "playing for". Since the casino considers the button pusher the winner, the IRS would not like not knowing who actually won.

    I just don't see how casinos can pull this off on a wide scale because there 99 many problems, but a bitch ain't one.

  12. #32
    Originally Posted by Tasha View Post
    Originally Posted by Mission146 View Post
    That is not what we mean when we use the term, "Vulture."
    I was using "Vultures," as in "Leeches." I know that "Vultures," is more like People who wait for Ploppies who will leave a bunch of multipliers open on a Ultimate X machine and take advantage of that or worse trick them off the machine in the first place. I remember a Culture in that term saying something like,"A Ploppy had a bunch of Multipliers on an Ultimate X machine. I claimed that another Machine was hot and had been giving out at least 5 Jackpots just that day and he should try it." He took my "good advice," and went to the other machine. I sat down and played his Multipliers and won big money off of his Multipliers.
    So if I get this right, Tasha is a creator? That's how the word is used, right? Really low-level scummy moves Tasha. Worse than credit hustling TBH.
    God bless this forum. You people are precious.

  13. #33
    Originally Posted by theywontpayontuesday View Post
    I suspect a casino knows how much money this will cost their attendants in tips and they're afraid of employee loss and other unintended consequences. On a higher level, we also don't know if the IRS will be happy. Truthfully with this system, abuse and fraud could happen. I'm not personally aware of the real world details of the system, so I am speculating based on what and how the system works to my assumptions. I'd predict people would pay to use another's card just to avoid tax headaches. People would 100% be committing a crime and a conspiracy, but if a casino didn't care, they wouldn't care. Then things would get out of hand.

    So what happens then? Patrons become criminals inside the casino and the casino has to have crime occur at the casino. Then casinos would be barring their own good customers who were too greedy to just be greedy enough to gamble in the casino. I assume it would be perjury the gamblers would commit hitting a button on a screen to self-pay the jackpot. People could even commit this crime not knowing it is a crime. People always want to have someone else claim a jackpot usually for financial reasons(such as owing child support or taxes and also possibly be excluded.) They also want the money to go to the other they are "playing for". Since the casino considers the button pusher the winner, the IRS would not like not knowing who actually won.

    I just don't see how casinos can pull this off on a wide scale because there 99 many problems, but a bitch ain't one.
    Since many casinos are already doing this, doubtful the IRS has a problem with it or it wouldn’t be allowed in the first place.

    Sure it could be abused, but when a casino doesn’t have self pay the system can still easily be abused by having someone else claim the jackpot (assuming the casino doesn’t check with surveillance on handpays) or having someone else spin. All the IRS cares about from a legal standpoint is that if a $1200 or more handpay is hit is that the tax form is issued and assigned to someone so they can tax that income.

    The tips thing is very valid though. I’ve asked some casinos if they are planning to get it and the loss of tip income is a big concern to them.

    It’s a poor excuse though because making a customer wait 20 minutes or more for a handpay and then have to tip on top of the wait solely to keep that revenue stream is short sighted and bad customer service.

    The more casinos that get self pay, customers will vote with their feet and prefer to play with no tips and no wait on jackpots.

    Also I’m only talking about players that play high limits and casinos that have a lot of high limit machines.

    Most machine players rarely get a handpay and don’t care about tipping or waiting. Not a big deal to them either way.

    For bigger players that typically get several handpays a week the difference between having self pay or not is huge in terms of both lost time waiting and money spent in tips. And these players are the most profitable for casinos.

    A locals joint that has a lot of low rollers and very few big players probably won’t need to worry about self pay.

    Large places though that have high bet & or high denom machines and a lot of bigger players could find themselves losing a lot of their most profitable customers if competitors start offering self pay & players see the convenience of no wait and the tip savings.

    If a player is hitting several hand pays a week, just the savings in tips could amount to several hundred dollars or more a week.

    No way a bigger player is not going to take that into consideration if they have an option between a casino with self pay and a casino without it.

  14. #34
    Originally Posted by accountinquestion View Post
    Originally Posted by Tasha View Post
    Originally Posted by Mission146 View Post
    That is not what we mean when we use the term, "Vulture."
    I was using "Vultures," as in "Leeches." I know that "Vultures," is more like People who wait for Ploppies who will leave a bunch of multipliers open on a Ultimate X machine and take advantage of that or worse trick them off the machine in the first place. I remember a Culture in that term saying something like,"A Ploppy had a bunch of Multipliers on an Ultimate X machine. I claimed that another Machine was hot and had been giving out at least 5 Jackpots just that day and he should try it." He took my "good advice," and went to the other machine. I sat down and played his Multipliers and won big money off of his Multipliers.
    So if I get this right, Tasha is a creator? That's how the word is used, right? Really low-level scummy moves Tasha. Worse than credit hustling TBH.
    I wasn't the one who tricked the Ploppy off of a game with Multipliers. A guy said he did that, not me...
    https://photos.app.goo.gl/Zk2WAFzDcrJ7pjNB7

    Take comfort in the fact that no one is actually backing up his wishes to have you permanantly banned.


    Smart is knowing a Tomato is a fruit.

    Wise is knowing a Tomato doesn't belong in a fruit salad.



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  15. #35
    Originally Posted by Tasha View Post
    Originally Posted by accountinquestion View Post
    Originally Posted by Tasha View Post

    I was using "Vultures," as in "Leeches." I know that "Vultures," is more like People who wait for Ploppies who will leave a bunch of multipliers open on a Ultimate X machine and take advantage of that or worse trick them off the machine in the first place. I remember a Culture in that term saying something like,"A Ploppy had a bunch of Multipliers on an Ultimate X machine. I claimed that another Machine was hot and had been giving out at least 5 Jackpots just that day and he should try it." He took my "good advice," and went to the other machine. I sat down and played his Multipliers and won big money off of his Multipliers.
    So if I get this right, Tasha is a creator? That's how the word is used, right? Really low-level scummy moves Tasha. Worse than credit hustling TBH.
    I wasn't the one who tricked the Ploppy off of a game with Multipliers. A guy said he did that, not me...
    YOU ARE THE PLOPPY.

  16. #36
    Originally Posted by Ozzy View Post
    Originally Posted by Tasha View Post
    Originally Posted by accountinquestion View Post

    So if I get this right, Tasha is a creator? That's how the word is used, right? Really low-level scummy moves Tasha. Worse than credit hustling TBH.
    I wasn't the one who tricked the Ploppy off of a game with Multipliers. A guy said he did that, not me...
    YOU ARE THE PLOPPY.
    I was not the Ploppy either in that anecdote! I promise!
    Last edited by Tasha; 09-16-2021 at 09:13 AM.
    https://photos.app.goo.gl/Zk2WAFzDcrJ7pjNB7

    Take comfort in the fact that no one is actually backing up his wishes to have you permanantly banned.


    Smart is knowing a Tomato is a fruit.

    Wise is knowing a Tomato doesn't belong in a fruit salad.



    Sorry, can't help you, reached my Posting Limit!

  17. #37
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    Originally Posted by Tasha View Post
    I was not the Ploppy either! I promise!
    There are two kinds of slot players: AP's and ploppies.

    So Tasha, if you aren't a ploppy you must be an AP?

    Is that correct?

    What strategy do you employ to achieve a positive expectation?
    What, Me Worry?

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