Originally Posted by
mickeycrimm
Originally Posted by
Mission146
I'm just playing the numbers. There aren't as many Taoists likely to be reading this as there are Christians, for one thing.
For the love of Tom Brady, my problem is with organized religion. Additionally, I have a very low tolerance for brainwashing or taking advantage of the weak-minded and stupid for cash. I also don't like indoctrinating children into belief systems that their minds haven't developed well-enough to understand the implications of.
If you are looking at an individual person who has examined his beliefs and has arrived at that conclusion, then I don't really have a problem with that. They're likely wrong, of course, but the important thing is the willingness to have those beliefs challenged and, most importantly, the capacity and intellectual honesty to admit that they can't possibly know. I certainly can't know.
Christians teach their kids Christianity from birth. Its not an evil thing. They don't want their kids to turn out to be heathens. Kids without Christ turn out to be fatherless, Godless and remorseless.
My grandmothers were sunday school teachers. They grew up Christians. One's father was a Baptist Minister. Two of the best women I've ever met. These are not evil people. Their Christianity was not a crutch. Grass roots Christianity is a beutiful thing. I'm talking small rural Churches I attened in my youth. The greatest people in the world. It's a belief system far superior to athiesm. Athiests have never done anything for the world. Anyone can name universities in this country. Can anyone name one that wasn't started by Christians?
This is not a flame war, Mission. I'm just giving you the Christian perspective. The teachings of Jesus never started a war. Not practicing the teachings of Jesus starts wars.
Let me take this point by point:
1.) I'm not saying that the brainwashing of the children is intended to be evil or is done out of any sort of deliberate malice---not by the parents, anyway. The people involved in the individual religions believe what they have been told by people whose job it is to be convincing, because doing a good job of being convincing keeps them fed and keeps the lights on in the churches. If you can be really convincing on TV, that really gets the donations rolling in.
2.) The next sentence about the kids becoming, "Heathens," implies that some form of religion is necessary in order to have moral values. The only real moral value that I have is to treat other people well---and to be generous with money---whilst Christians are often known for being very poor tippers.
And, stemming from what do these morals come from? The desire for a reward? The fear of punishment or reprimand? That's all those fuckers have to sell their brainwashed masses on, but they are failing---and quickly. People are starting to see through the facade and know that some individual Christians are some of the shadiest and most morally disreputable people out there. Children have been molested and some churches have covered for it. More than that, even to this day, the religion attempts (though this is where they are REALLY failing these days) to use Government as a tool to influence what other people may or may not do with their lives.
And...for what? To force people to live by the beliefs that those of them with any sort of power within the religious institution do not even themselves uphold? HA!
No, religion is not needed to prevent children from becoming heathens. Teaching people to find value in other people and in the act of charitableness for its own sake is all that is required.
You don't need a God to treat other people well because, even if God does exist, God certainly hasn't treated everyone well.
3.) The small rural churches with their uneducated masses who comprise some of the most socially restrictive voting blocs in this entire country. Basically Fascists, many of them. Consider the opposition to gay marriage---one of their many losing battles---why the hell would they care? I can tell you why---because they don't want such behavior to become socially acceptable, else, some of them might be compelled to engage in that behavior!
Can you imagine? They have so little self-control when it comes to their own desires that, not only did a God have to be orchestrated, but worse than that, they feel the need to try to get the church's values applied to all of society because they don't trust their own to follow the supposed Word of God should it become socially acceptable not to do so.
The avoidance of temptation is also a big thing with them, and why? Easy, they are feeble of the mind and lack the discipline needed to resist their impulses. It comes as no surprise that so many of them are infidels who cheat on their spouses. Do you really think religion is needed to not be an infidel---no, all you have to do is actually give a shit about your partner's feelings---no disposition to the effect handed down by a God who probably doesn't even exist necessary.
4.) University started by an Atheist---would these be the same Universities that so many Christians despise and ridicule as liberal indoctrination centers? Should Christians really want to take credit for creating the very institutions that they seek to demonize? Those same institutions, I might remind you, which are home to any number of acts of debauchery that are considered profane in the eyes of God.
No, I can't name one offhand. Do you know why? I'll tell you: Because unlike, "Humble," Christians, we actually don't see much of a need to advertise everything that we do that is positive for the entire world to know. Why would Atheists do such a thing? Making a big presentation of occasionally being (or portraying) fundamentally decent human beings who help those less fortunate is for Christians to do---not for me. I can't speak for other Agnostics, of course---unlike the different denominations of organized religion---we do not all think with the same mind.
5.) The teachings of, "Jesus," are, themselves, fine. The Bible is mostly fine as a tool to use parables to teach. My problem is with organized religion, thinking with a hive mind, that can lead to any number of awful things. Start with that religion was used to defend the institution of slavery and so many more historical examples of the awful things done in the name of religion that I can rattle off, if you want me to.
By being a part of the organized aspect of religion, the brainwashed are indirectly promoting and defending these things. They certainly contribute money to the church, in many cases, as demanded by the Bible. Better that they go out and just give the money to people directly.
6.) I'm not saying that there are not good people within the religion-even the organized aspect. My Great-Grandmother, for example, is the best Christian and probably the best human being I've ever known---aside from also being a lousy tipper. She's legitimately the only one I've personally met who actually acknowledged and upheld the fact that it is not for Christians to judge the actions of others---God will sort out the good from the evil.
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Not even worth responding to. Just more Singer nonsense. Rob, seriously, even if you convince a couple people of some of your nonsense, what does that get you. It doesn't change the real truth and that is at the end of your life, you essentially broke and live off your kids. I mean not broke (hopefully) as real poor people are waiting for their SS check each month. Hopefully you have SS and some sort of retirement to enjoy life a bit, but you are not very well off and have to live off your kids. Your stories don't change that.
