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Thread: My apologies to Rob Singer

  1. #21
    Originally Posted by Mission146 View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by Mission146 View Post
    I'm just playing the numbers. There aren't as many Taoists likely to be reading this as there are Christians, for one thing.

    For the love of Tom Brady, my problem is with organized religion. Additionally, I have a very low tolerance for brainwashing or taking advantage of the weak-minded and stupid for cash. I also don't like indoctrinating children into belief systems that their minds haven't developed well-enough to understand the implications of.

    If you are looking at an individual person who has examined his beliefs and has arrived at that conclusion, then I don't really have a problem with that. They're likely wrong, of course, but the important thing is the willingness to have those beliefs challenged and, most importantly, the capacity and intellectual honesty to admit that they can't possibly know. I certainly can't know.
    Christians teach their kids Christianity from birth. Its not an evil thing. They don't want their kids to turn out to be heathens. Kids without Christ turn out to be fatherless, Godless and remorseless.
    My grandmothers were sunday school teachers. They grew up Christians. One's father was a Baptist Minister. Two of the best women I've ever met. These are not evil people. Their Christianity was not a crutch. Grass roots Christianity is a beutiful thing. I'm talking small rural Churches I attened in my youth. The greatest people in the world. It's a belief system far superior to athiesm. Athiests have never done anything for the world. Anyone can name universities in this country. Can anyone name one that wasn't started by Christians?

    This is not a flame war, Mission. I'm just giving you the Christian perspective. The teachings of Jesus never started a war. Not practicing the teachings of Jesus starts wars.
    Let me take this point by point:

    1.) I'm not saying that the brainwashing of the children is intended to be evil or is done out of any sort of deliberate malice---not by the parents, anyway. The people involved in the individual religions believe what they have been told by people whose job it is to be convincing, because doing a good job of being convincing keeps them fed and keeps the lights on in the churches. If you can be really convincing on TV, that really gets the donations rolling in.

    2.) The next sentence about the kids becoming, "Heathens," implies that some form of religion is necessary in order to have moral values. The only real moral value that I have is to treat other people well---and to be generous with money---whilst Christians are often known for being very poor tippers.

    And, stemming from what do these morals come from? The desire for a reward? The fear of punishment or reprimand? That's all those fuckers have to sell their brainwashed masses on, but they are failing---and quickly. People are starting to see through the facade and know that some individual Christians are some of the shadiest and most morally disreputable people out there. Children have been molested and some churches have covered for it. More than that, even to this day, the religion attempts (though this is where they are REALLY failing these days) to use Government as a tool to influence what other people may or may not do with their lives.

    And...for what? To force people to live by the beliefs that those of them with any sort of power within the religious institution do not even themselves uphold? HA!

    No, religion is not needed to prevent children from becoming heathens. Teaching people to find value in other people and in the act of charitableness for its own sake is all that is required.

    You don't need a God to treat other people well because, even if God does exist, God certainly hasn't treated everyone well.

    3.) The small rural churches with their uneducated masses who comprise some of the most socially restrictive voting blocs in this entire country. Basically Fascists, many of them. Consider the opposition to gay marriage---one of their many losing battles---why the hell would they care? I can tell you why---because they don't want such behavior to become socially acceptable, else, some of them might be compelled to engage in that behavior!

    Can you imagine? They have so little self-control when it comes to their own desires that, not only did a God have to be orchestrated, but worse than that, they feel the need to try to get the church's values applied to all of society because they don't trust their own to follow the supposed Word of God should it become socially acceptable not to do so.

    The avoidance of temptation is also a big thing with them, and why? Easy, they are feeble of the mind and lack the discipline needed to resist their impulses. It comes as no surprise that so many of them are infidels who cheat on their spouses. Do you really think religion is needed to not be an infidel---no, all you have to do is actually give a shit about your partner's feelings---no disposition to the effect handed down by a God who probably doesn't even exist necessary.

    4.) University started by an Atheist---would these be the same Universities that so many Christians despise and ridicule as liberal indoctrination centers? Should Christians really want to take credit for creating the very institutions that they seek to demonize? Those same institutions, I might remind you, which are home to any number of acts of debauchery that are considered profane in the eyes of God.

    No, I can't name one offhand. Do you know why? I'll tell you: Because unlike, "Humble," Christians, we actually don't see much of a need to advertise everything that we do that is positive for the entire world to know. Why would Atheists do such a thing? Making a big presentation of occasionally being (or portraying) fundamentally decent human beings who help those less fortunate is for Christians to do---not for me. I can't speak for other Agnostics, of course---unlike the different denominations of organized religion---we do not all think with the same mind.

    5.) The teachings of, "Jesus," are, themselves, fine. The Bible is mostly fine as a tool to use parables to teach. My problem is with organized religion, thinking with a hive mind, that can lead to any number of awful things. Start with that religion was used to defend the institution of slavery and so many more historical examples of the awful things done in the name of religion that I can rattle off, if you want me to.

    By being a part of the organized aspect of religion, the brainwashed are indirectly promoting and defending these things. They certainly contribute money to the church, in many cases, as demanded by the Bible. Better that they go out and just give the money to people directly.

    6.) I'm not saying that there are not good people within the religion-even the organized aspect. My Great-Grandmother, for example, is the best Christian and probably the best human being I've ever known---aside from also being a lousy tipper. She's legitimately the only one I've personally met who actually acknowledged and upheld the fact that it is not for Christians to judge the actions of others---God will sort out the good from the evil.
    You believe Christians are evil. I was raised in the Baptist and Methodist Churches. Best people in the world. You can brainwash kids to be either athiest or Christian. Christians don't think with a "hive mind." What you hear by the TV preachers is phony. Not representative of any Christians I know. Just because someone calls themselves a Christian doesn't make it so. There are hucksters in Christianity just like in everything else. Painting a broad brush of "Christians bad" because of the hucksters is what is bad.

    Funny you paint Christians as judgemental. They are the ones that preach "Judge not and you will also not be judged." You've obviously made a lot of judgements about Christians. Why is that okay?

    Money to the church is meant to pay the bills of that particular church.

    Rural uneducated Christians? Give me a break. Surely you don't believe that. If you do you are well off the mark.

    You might like the marxism/athiesm that is taught in universities today but I don't. Yes, in universities started by Christians but hijacked by evil marxists/athiests. Evil to the core.

    Christians are "known for being poor tippers" is nothing but a cheap shot. If you think Christians are poor tippers then go to England and work serving ale in a pub. You won't make one thin dime in tips. They don't tip the servers in the pubs in England. I hear England has quite a lot of athiests that are fond of ale.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  2. #22
    Originally Posted by Mission146 View Post
    I'm just playing the numbers. There aren't as many Taoists likely to be reading this as there are Christians, for one thing.

    For the love of Tom Brady, my problem is with organized religion. Additionally, I have a very low tolerance for brainwashing or taking advantage of the weak-minded and stupid for cash. I also don't like indoctrinating children into belief systems that their minds haven't developed well-enough to understand the implications of.

    If you are looking at an individual person who has examined his beliefs and has arrived at that conclusion, then I don't really have a problem with that. They're likely wrong, of course, but the important thing is the willingness to have those beliefs challenged and, most importantly, the capacity and intellectual honesty to admit that they can't possibly know. I certainly can't know.
    Organized religion, Christianity, etc. is all based on emotions. Nobody knows if there's some kind of all-powerful God or not. People choose to believe one way or the other. The one true reality is that most gay people are atheists because they are a bit less intelligent than normal people, and they have trouble making the right choices based on beliefs. Just look at the freaks among their ilk that make it into TV commercials.

    At the same time, it's very obvious that any sitting God who is the creator of all this would NEVER allow himself to intervene in anything. He simply put all this together to sit back and watch how his very special creation handled everything that's thrown at them. More proof that he's had nothing to do with my -EV strategy making money over 4 years, or my coming across the DU bug that served my family very very well. And for anyone expecting fucks like Hitler etc. to "burn in hell for an eternity"? I believe that's a non-starter. Our hell is right here. Just ask a tortured clown like kew. Even someone like me, who's made it thru a very chaotic and at times very dangerous time in my career, still gets tested more than I would like. There's so much pain and suffering in this world (think cruel killers or all the animals enduring being eaten alive by one another) that there's no reason to put us thru anything further once we pass on. The "hell" will be in the length of time we must sit and wait to be admitted into whatever heaven is.

    Tom Brady has nothing to do with any of it. Even with all the glory he possesses on earth, he may well end up everyone else's equal on whatever Judgement Day is comprised of.

    Good luck.

  3. #23
    Don't worry, I'm gonna baptize Mission146 in the Money-Go-Hella River if I ever get back to PA which I doubt as I'm drowning in responsibilites.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by monet; 12-19-2021 at 04:14 PM.

  4. #24
    All religions are FRAUDS!!!!

  5. #25
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post

    You believe Christians are evil. I was raised in the Baptist and Methodist Churches. Best people in the world. You can brainwash kids to be either athiest or Christian. Christians don't think with a "hive mind." What you hear by the TV preachers is phony. Not representative of any Christians I know. Just because someone calls themselves a Christian doesn't make it so. There are hucksters in Christianity just like in everything else. Painting a broad brush of "Christians bad" because of the hucksters is what is bad.

    Funny you paint Christians as judgemental. They are the ones that preach "Judge not and you will also not be judged." You've obviously made a lot of judgements about Christians. Why is that okay?

    Money to the church is meant to pay the bills of that particular church.

    Rural uneducated Christians? Give me a break. Surely you don't believe that. If you do you are well off the mark.

    You might like the marxism/athiesm that is taught in universities today but I don't. Yes, in universities started by Christians but hijacked by evil marxists/athiests. Evil to the core.

    Christians are "known for being poor tippers" is nothing but a cheap shot. If you think Christians are poor tippers then go to England and work serving ale in a pub. You won't make one thin dime in tips. They don't tip the servers in the pubs in England. I hear England has quite a lot of athiests that are fond of ale.
    1.) I don't believe that Christians are evil; I believe that Christianity, as an organized religion, is evil. Personal experiences are irrelevant as an evidentiary basis for the overall case, besides, World History and American History make my side of the argument winning on this one, anyway. However, if you want to get into individual experiences...well, the one pastor cheated on his wife---I mean, it still counts as cheating even if it should happen to be with his own daughter, right? Then, you go to the Assembly of God and they ended up moving that guy for cheating on his wife...but at least it was with an adult woman that time. Unfortunately, it was with the wife of one of the high-ranking civilians.

    So, does the church fire him? Nah. They gave him the same job in a bigger church in a bigger city.

    And, then you go and look at this Apostolic Church where the wives and daughters might as well be slaves, because when it comes to personal choice, there's really no difference.

    And, those are my experiences.

    Matthew 18:20, anyway.

    You have people teaching the word of God as a salaried position in these large Cathedrals with the statues, ornaments and stained glass windows that they profess are giving glory to God? HA HA and HA!!! All of this pie in the sky opulent bullshit with high ceilings and ornate archways and you think that these Towers of Babel where the babblers babble on to their brainwashed babies represent anything that Jesus would have wanted? What God wants? If there was one thing that Jesus would have detested, it would be extravagance carried out in his name. Had Jesus existed (well, at all) today and built a church, it would probably be just a flat rectangular building made as cheaply as possible so that more money could be given to help the poor.

    It's all a big cash grab, you see, some of them are just better at it than others.

    What are people doing putting on their, "Sunday Best," does wearing a suit and a tie give glory to God? From some of the same denominations that also think that wearing jewelry is a sin because it's a way of ornamenting the self as well as to show off wealth!? Hahaha!!! It doesn't surprise me that they would be inconsistent, once again.

    How do you show respect to God? Well, assuming you believe he exists...then to as much of an extent as possible, you just let them live their own lives and God will sort everything out in the end. Wearing a tie doesn't suddenly make you a good person who is worthy in the eyes of God and I am sure, if he did exist, that he could see through the subterfuge.

    2.) I don't brainwash kids to do anything because I refuse to have the discussion with them until they are adults. They are free to look into whatever religions they may or may not want to. For my part, I've never taught my kids to believe or disbelieve anything...they are independent human beings and it's not my place to dictate beliefs into them; they can observe the world and reach their own conclusions.

    3.) The Christians do think with a hive mind because the organizational structure is Fascist in its very nature. What do you do with a place full of people who all agree and where you have some guy that you anointed as being above the other guys, who stands up on the stage and literally looks down on all of them and tells them what they should believe for an hour? It's not a discussion; nothing is up for debate. To even entertain any notion to the contrary of God's existence would be sinful; didn't you listen to any of the sermons?

    4.) It's okay for me to be judgmental because I never claimed not to be. I did not declare not being judgmental as a personal, much less religious, value. My take on it is that I should go out into the world and be polite, friendly, helpful and giving...but I can judge whoever the hell I want to much like they can (and do) judge me. Do you know what the difference is vis-a-vis judgment between myself and the Christians? I don't deny that I'm judging them. That's the only real difference, in that regard.

    5.) Yes, rural uneducated Christians. The statistics support that assertion, but you would not be a fan of those particular statistics. You can just look at various places by average educational attainment.

    Simply, you can break it down by states. To nobody's surprise, the most religious states:

    https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...?state=alabama

    Are also the most poorly educated, for the most part:

    https://worldpopulationreview.com/st...ducated-states

    You're usually a numbers guy, but I'll give you a one-time pass if you choose not to believe the numbers on this one.

    6.) I don't like what is being taught in Universities today because I am objective. I can see that both political sides are awful in their own ways. The Left is terrible on Economic issues---especially if your philosophy, like mine, is cost management focus. That said, the Right is awful on social issues because they are mostly comprised of religious idiots who want to use the Government to essentially force even the non religious to live according to their moral standards, which, again, they often do not make any real attempt to uphold.

    7.) What is the overall tipping culture in England? I wouldn't know or care, but it might have something to do with that.

    Also, I don't know how that's a cheap shot, but implying that morality is impossible without God is somehow not a cheap shot? No, people can have morals just by virtue of not being total pieces of shit. Myself, I'm mostly a piece of shit, but not a total piece of shit. If a person feels like they need a God else lose any sense of morality, then they're likely either a cultist or a sociopath.
    Last edited by Mission146; 12-19-2021 at 05:04 PM.

  6. #26
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    Organized religion, Christianity, etc. is all based on emotions. Nobody knows if there's some kind of all-powerful God or not. People choose to believe one way or the other. The one true reality is that most gay people are atheists because they are a bit less intelligent than normal people, and they have trouble making the right choices based on beliefs. Just look at the freaks among their ilk that make it into TV commercials.

    At the same time, it's very obvious that any sitting God who is the creator of all this would NEVER allow himself to intervene in anything. He simply put all this together to sit back and watch how his very special creation handled everything that's thrown at them. More proof that he's had nothing to do with my -EV strategy making money over 4 years, or my coming across the DU bug that served my family very very well. And for anyone expecting fucks like Hitler etc. to "burn in hell for an eternity"? I believe that's a non-starter. Our hell is right here. Just ask a tortured clown like kew. Even someone like me, who's made it thru a very chaotic and at times very dangerous time in my career, still gets tested more than I would like. There's so much pain and suffering in this world (think cruel killers or all the animals enduring being eaten alive by one another) that there's no reason to put us thru anything further once we pass on. The "hell" will be in the length of time we must sit and wait to be admitted into whatever heaven is.

    Tom Brady has nothing to do with any of it. Even with all the glory he possesses on earth, he may well end up everyone else's equal on whatever Judgement Day is comprised of.

    Good luck.
    The key is in the first paragraph, "Nobody knows," but the preachers/ministers/pastors would have it be a doctrinal sin for anyone to even question the existence of God, much less the open expressing of doubt. As an Agnostic, I don't have any beliefs either way, other than what I look at as a probability question. I think the God as expressed by Christianity is highly improbable because the notion of God is not even self-consistent, but as KewlJ points out, many things have been changed over the centuries...so maybe the notion of the God of Abraham was at least cohesive and not self-contradictory, once upon a time.

    What are you talking about TV commercials? Are they the same as Youtube commercials? I sometimes see a commercial during NFL games, but I couldn't even remember a recent commercial if I tried.

    I don't think our hell is right here, or anywhere else, but it's not material at the present time, in either case. I think that the sum of human existence has no inherent meaning and our lives only have meaning to the extent that we do things and behave in ways that we consider meaningful. On the cosmic scale, I think you and I would agree that neither of us matter. We probably don't matter on any scale, really, except to the extent that we matter to other people.

    That's why the feeble-minded are so easily led, in addition to the fact that many were brainwashed as children, of course. Their minds aren't strong enough to handle the notion that probably none of existence matters, except in the pragmatic sense. The notion of the afterlife has its philosophical placebo effect, as probably intended...well, it's mostly for the social control...but also a bit to make people feel better.

    They should just accept that the most likely scenario is that the Universe doesn't care about us as a whole, much less us as individuals. For most of us, we will die and eventually be forgotten. Cosmically, might as well have never existed in the first place. The most likely case is that there's nothing after this, not even blackness, because blackness would at least be experienced...you will be non-existent...it would be like asking someone if they remember the year before they were born. Nothing to remember. You didn't exist. I find a certain peace in that and think it would be much preferable to any possible Heaven...eternity is a long fucking time and I don't see any reason to believe that the supposed, "Soul," wouldn't still experience what it would perceive as the passing of time.
    Last edited by Mission146; 12-19-2021 at 05:29 PM.

  7. #27
    Part 1 and 2... None of you have the balls cause what if!?



    Last edited by monet; 12-19-2021 at 05:31 PM.

  8. #28
    Originally Posted by monet View Post
    Part 1 and 2... None of you have the balls cause what if!?
    I don't, "Have the balls," because I prefer living to dying, for the moment. Make no mistake, I've seen enough nursing homes and hospices to know that my most likely cause of death will be suicide followed by accident. Cancer? No thanks. I'm going to die sooner or later, anyway, might as well do it without the suffering...not to mention the costs associated with treatment.

  9. #29
    Originally Posted by Mission146 View Post
    I don't, "Have the balls," because I prefer living to dying, for the moment. Make no mistake, I've seen enough nursing homes and hospices to know that my most likely cause of death will be suicide followed by accident. Cancer? No thanks. I'm going to die sooner or later, anyway, might as well do it without the suffering...not to mention the costs associated with treatment.
    I wish you would make up your mind.
    One post you tell us you don't care about anything and nothing matters.
    Now you tell us you prefer living to dying.
    Bah!

  10. #30
    Originally Posted by monet View Post
    Originally Posted by Mission146 View Post
    I don't, "Have the balls," because I prefer living to dying, for the moment. Make no mistake, I've seen enough nursing homes and hospices to know that my most likely cause of death will be suicide followed by accident. Cancer? No thanks. I'm going to die sooner or later, anyway, might as well do it without the suffering...not to mention the costs associated with treatment.
    I wish you would make up your mind.
    One post you tell us you don't care about anything and nothing matters.
    Now you tell us you prefer living to dying.
    Bah!
    There's a difference between the cosmic sense of the notion, the philosophical sense and the pragmatic sense. Pragmatically, our own existence and experience is the ONLY thing that matters. The choice between life and death, even with any sense of current obligation aside, mostly comes down to whether I think my remaining experiences will be net positive, or net negative, as opposed to simply dying immediately. The trajectory I am on would suggest that my remaining experiences are likely going to be net positive, and again, that's even if I were to put aside the obligations that I presently have to others.

    Cosmically and Philosophically, nothing matters. Pragmatically, we're always making a choice by simply continuing to remain alive.
    Last edited by Mission146; 12-19-2021 at 06:18 PM.

  11. #31
    Philosophically, none of this matters in any fundamental sense because the very notion of anything, "Mattering," is itself subjective. That's why I use the qualifier, "Inherently," when I say nothing matters. In other words, there's nothing that matters as an absolute default because someone else might think that thing doesn't matter. Our interactions with other people, for example, someone else might think that those don't matter. I think they matter to the extent that our experiences can be improved or made worse by these interactions, but someone else might not see it that way. Also, that brings us to what matters in the cosmic sense.

    Nothing matters in the cosmic sense. A look to the Universe reveals only, at least as a most likely case, cold indifference. At some point in the future, humanity will be gone as will all evidence that there ever was such a thing as humanity. It will be as if we never existed in the first place, other than a few small changes here and there that are nothing more than a rounding error from the perspective of the cosmos---which itself is probably non-sentient and therefore lacks perspective. We, as a whole, are simply not relevant, except to one another...much less any individual person being Universally relevant. We don't matter.
    Last edited by Mission146; 12-19-2021 at 06:25 PM.

  12. #32
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by Mission146 View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post

    Christians teach their kids Christianity from birth. Its not an evil thing. They don't want their kids to turn out to be heathens. Kids without Christ turn out to be fatherless, Godless and remorseless.
    My grandmothers were sunday school teachers. They grew up Christians. One's father was a Baptist Minister. Two of the best women I've ever met. These are not evil people. Their Christianity was not a crutch. Grass roots Christianity is a beutiful thing. I'm talking small rural Churches I attened in my youth. The greatest people in the world. It's a belief system far superior to athiesm. Athiests have never done anything for the world. Anyone can name universities in this country. Can anyone name one that wasn't started by Christians?

    This is not a flame war, Mission. I'm just giving you the Christian perspective. The teachings of Jesus never started a war. Not practicing the teachings of Jesus starts wars.
    Let me take this point by point:

    1.) I'm not saying that the brainwashing of the children is intended to be evil or is done out of any sort of deliberate malice---not by the parents, anyway. The people involved in the individual religions believe what they have been told by people whose job it is to be convincing, because doing a good job of being convincing keeps them fed and keeps the lights on in the churches. If you can be really convincing on TV, that really gets the donations rolling in.

    2.) The next sentence about the kids becoming, "Heathens," implies that some form of religion is necessary in order to have moral values. The only real moral value that I have is to treat other people well---and to be generous with money---whilst Christians are often known for being very poor tippers.

    And, stemming from what do these morals come from? The desire for a reward? The fear of punishment or reprimand? That's all those fuckers have to sell their brainwashed masses on, but they are failing---and quickly. People are starting to see through the facade and know that some individual Christians are some of the shadiest and most morally disreputable people out there. Children have been molested and some churches have covered for it. More than that, even to this day, the religion attempts (though this is where they are REALLY failing these days) to use Government as a tool to influence what other people may or may not do with their lives.

    And...for what? To force people to live by the beliefs that those of them with any sort of power within the religious institution do not even themselves uphold? HA!

    No, religion is not needed to prevent children from becoming heathens. Teaching people to find value in other people and in the act of charitableness for its own sake is all that is required.

    You don't need a God to treat other people well because, even if God does exist, God certainly hasn't treated everyone well.

    3.) The small rural churches with their uneducated masses who comprise some of the most socially restrictive voting blocs in this entire country. Basically Fascists, many of them. Consider the opposition to gay marriage---one of their many losing battles---why the hell would they care? I can tell you why---because they don't want such behavior to become socially acceptable, else, some of them might be compelled to engage in that behavior!

    Can you imagine? They have so little self-control when it comes to their own desires that, not only did a God have to be orchestrated, but worse than that, they feel the need to try to get the church's values applied to all of society because they don't trust their own to follow the supposed Word of God should it become socially acceptable not to do so.

    The avoidance of temptation is also a big thing with them, and why? Easy, they are feeble of the mind and lack the discipline needed to resist their impulses. It comes as no surprise that so many of them are infidels who cheat on their spouses. Do you really think religion is needed to not be an infidel---no, all you have to do is actually give a shit about your partner's feelings---no disposition to the effect handed down by a God who probably doesn't even exist necessary.

    4.) University started by an Atheist---would these be the same Universities that so many Christians despise and ridicule as liberal indoctrination centers? Should Christians really want to take credit for creating the very institutions that they seek to demonize? Those same institutions, I might remind you, which are home to any number of acts of debauchery that are considered profane in the eyes of God.

    No, I can't name one offhand. Do you know why? I'll tell you: Because unlike, "Humble," Christians, we actually don't see much of a need to advertise everything that we do that is positive for the entire world to know. Why would Atheists do such a thing? Making a big presentation of occasionally being (or portraying) fundamentally decent human beings who help those less fortunate is for Christians to do---not for me. I can't speak for other Agnostics, of course---unlike the different denominations of organized religion---we do not all think with the same mind.

    5.) The teachings of, "Jesus," are, themselves, fine. The Bible is mostly fine as a tool to use parables to teach. My problem is with organized religion, thinking with a hive mind, that can lead to any number of awful things. Start with that religion was used to defend the institution of slavery and so many more historical examples of the awful things done in the name of religion that I can rattle off, if you want me to.

    By being a part of the organized aspect of religion, the brainwashed are indirectly promoting and defending these things. They certainly contribute money to the church, in many cases, as demanded by the Bible. Better that they go out and just give the money to people directly.

    6.) I'm not saying that there are not good people within the religion-even the organized aspect. My Great-Grandmother, for example, is the best Christian and probably the best human being I've ever known---aside from also being a lousy tipper. She's legitimately the only one I've personally met who actually acknowledged and upheld the fact that it is not for Christians to judge the actions of others---God will sort out the good from the evil.
    You believe Christians are evil. I was raised in the Baptist and Methodist Churches. Best people in the world. You can brainwash kids to be either athiest or Christian. Christians don't think with a "hive mind." What you hear by the TV preachers is phony. Not representative of any Christians I know. Just because someone calls themselves a Christian doesn't make it so. There are hucksters in Christianity just like in everything else. Painting a broad brush of "Christians bad" because of the hucksters is what is bad.

    Funny you paint Christians as judgemental. They are the ones that preach "Judge not and you will also not be judged." You've obviously made a lot of judgements about Christians. Why is that okay?

    Money to the church is meant to pay the bills of that particular church.

    Rural uneducated Christians? Give me a break. Surely you don't believe that. If you do you are well off the mark.

    You might like the marxism/athiesm that is taught in universities today but I don't. Yes, in universities started by Christians but hijacked by evil marxists/athiests. Evil to the core.

    Christians are "known for being poor tippers" is nothing but a cheap shot. If you think Christians are poor tippers then go to England and work serving ale in a pub. You won't make one thin dime in tips. They don't tip the servers in the pubs in England. I hear England has quite a lot of athiests that are fond of ale.
    Christians have been persecuted for 2000 years. Yet, thru it all, they've done far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far more for the world than any group that has ever been. There is no group that is even a distant second.

    Christians established human rights. The right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness was brought on by the actions and beliefs of Christians. Christian industriousness created great wealth in the world that they freely shared. All the good in the world is because of Christianity.

    But persecution of Christians is a sickness that will never be cured.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  13. #33
    You think some asshole offering his stupid opinion on an obscure gambling forum qualifies as, “Persecution?” Do you think I ask servers before tipping, people wanting to be fed at the soup kitchen, people who are begging that I sometimes buy a sandwich or someone who I do a small favor for what religion they are first?

    Negative. This is just an open discussion not unlike if the group of us was just sitting on a porch. Frankly, I don’t really care that much what religion people are or are not as long as I never have to hear about it.

    You take the good and the bad, of course. Again, my problem is mainly with the concept of organized religion and not so much Christianity, or individual Christians. Historically speaking, the Inquisition sufficiently demonstrates that they didn’t need outside groups to persecute them anyway; they’ll do it to themselves sooner or later.

    Anyway, it’s not like I’m saying any of this in a church. This is neutral territory. Even if it rises to the level of persecution, that’s fine, because they have a tendency of demonizing other groups, anyway.

  14. #34
    Originally Posted by Mission146 View Post
    You think some asshole offering his stupid opinion on an obscure gambling forum qualifies as, “Persecution?” Do you think I ask servers before tipping, people wanting to be fed at the soup kitchen, people who are begging that I sometimes buy a sandwich or someone who I do a small favor for what religion they are first?

    Negative. This is just an open discussion not unlike if the group of us was just sitting on a porch. Frankly, I don’t really care that much what religion people are or are not as long as I never have to hear about it.

    You take the good and the bad, of course. Again, my problem is mainly with the concept of organized religion and not so much Christianity, or individual Christians. Historically speaking, the Inquisition sufficiently demonstrates that they didn’t need outside groups to persecute them anyway; they’ll do it to themselves sooner or later.

    Anyway, it’s not like I’m saying any of this in a church. This is neutral territory. Even if it rises to the level of persecution, that’s fine, because they have a tendency of demonizing other groups, anyway.
    4:10 in this video...


  15. #35
    Everyone in this country owes their freedom to Christianity and Christians. You, your parents, your kids, your grandkids are free because of Christianity. Christians conceived the idea of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Christians fought and died to establish and maintain life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

    Christianity is a belief system far superior to any other belief system that has ever been created. Constantine converted the Roman Empire to Christianity because it was a force for moral good. Because it taught people to love one another.

    But I don't expect the arrogant bashing of Christians to ever end. What the persecutors don't realize is that Christianity established the right of people to do that.
    Last edited by mickeycrimm; 12-20-2021 at 05:13 AM.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  16. #36
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Everyone in this country owes their freedom to Christianity and Christians. You, your parents, your kids, your grandkids are free because of Christianity. Christians conceived the idea of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Christians fought and died to establish and maintain life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

    Christianity is a belief system far superior to any other belief system that has ever been created. Constantine converted the Roman Empire to Christianity because it was a force for moral good. Because it taught people to love one another.

    But I don't expect the arrogant bashing of Christians to ever end. What the persecutors don't realize is that Christianity established the right of people to do that.
    I think you mean we all owe everything we have to Jesus.

  17. #37
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Everyone in this country owes their freedom to Christianity and Christians. You, your parents, your kids, your grandkids are free because of Christianity. Christians conceived the idea of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Christians fought and died to establish and maintain life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

    Christianity is a belief system far superior to any other belief system that has ever been created. Constantine converted the Roman Empire to Christianity because it was a force for moral good. Because it taught people to love one another.

    But I don't expect the arrogant bashing of Christians to ever end. What the persecutors don't realize is that Christianity established the right of people to do that.
    Do you know why freedom of Religion was established in the Constitution? One of the reasons for that to be part of the First Amendment is because Christianity/Catholicism had historically been in bed with the Government directly for hundreds of years. Specifically, many ministers left their ministries during the Revolutionary War as ministers in the Church of England had all been made to swear an oath of loyalty to the crown.

    From a social standpoint, Freedom of Religion was necessary for two reasons:

    1.) In order to ensure that the Government would restrict religion as little as possible.

    AND:

    2.) In order to ensure that religion, never again, would be in a position to influence what the Government does.

    In other words, you are claiming that everyone in this country owes their freedom to Christians---but the Founders of this country were liberating themselves from other fucking Christians! You can't give a group too much credit for being the liberator when that group is also the oppressor.

    What is superior about Christianity as a belief system? A useful belief system would rely on proof and WOULD NOT need to rely on the threat of eternal punishment, or promise of eternal reward, to convince people to behave one way or another way. Why can't they compel people to be decent to others for its own sake?

    Why are so many Christians racists? Why are so many of them anti, "Illegal," immigration, even now when we are having a shortage on the labor supply side of the market? Why do so many of them want to restrict what the Government will allow people to do on the social level of things? Wouldn't they be operating AGAINST the very freedoms that you claim that they are singularly responsible for?

    Also, no disrespect meant, but do you know anything about Thomas Jefferson?

    Christianity did not establish the right to do anything. Even Christianity doesn't think that Christianity predates human existence. If Christianity is responsible for liberating people from anything, then what it has liberated people from is Christianity itself. In order for Christianity to liberate anything, freedoms would have to be restricted in the first place, and they were---largely by Christianity.
    Last edited by Mission146; 12-20-2021 at 07:47 AM.

  18. #38
    Yes, Christians separated church from state. Excellent move....made by Christians. Christians also wrote the cConstitution and the Bill of Rights. Every American owes their freedom to Christians and nothing derogatory written about them can change that. Christians led the fight against racism. They've been doing so for hundreds of years.

    I'm not allowed to cross borders illegally. Nor should anyone else have that right. Yes, I know alot about Thomas Jefferson. He coined the phrase, "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness." A Christian tenet.

    Yes, there have been negative things done by Christians. But the positive they've done far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far outweighs the negative. Haters of Christians never acknowledge this.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  19. #39
    In other words, you are claiming that everyone in this country owes their freedom to Christians---but the Founders of this country were liberating themselves from other fucking Christians! You can't give a group too much credit for being the liberator when that group is also the oppressor.
    That's like, wife-beater logic, right? I guess that would be fitting, coming from Christianity. After all:

    https://worldpopulationreview.com/st...lence-by-state

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...by_religiosity

    The top ten states for domestic violence against women also tend to be the more religious states---with Washington and Nevada being the only notable exceptions.

    And Vermont, relatively Godless Vermont, down near the bottom of the domestic violence rankings. It surprises me to see Georgia on the list, but the wives there probably just don't report it under threat of death, or alternatively, maybe the White Christians down there are just too busy killing black people in cold blood.

    Is this persecution? I'm a persecutor? Don't make me laugh. How can you suddenly decide that you don't like generalizations, seemed like you were fine with them before. Besides, my generalizations come with statistics to back them up! The least educated states are also the most Christian states---FACT! Do you suppose that the Atheists/Agnostics in those states just happen to be stupider than in others?

    I mean, it's all cause and effect, if you really think about it. They didn't want the schools teaching evolution, and some of them still don't, so that immediately causes a rejection of science. They promote the notion---even to children---that a woman's place is in the home, so as a result, there's really no need for the women to focus much on education since they won't be going into the workforce anyway.

    They home school and have private schools with no need for any actual academic standards whatsoever as long as they don't take Government money---which is fine, but just because you can doesn't mean you should---and consequently, aren't even legally required to only employ teachers certified in education.

    They allocate part of the school day to Bible studies, which is immediately a total waste of time, unless they are going to be Theologists. Clay sculpting class would be a better use of time...and that's coming from the guy who would cut 100% of Government art funding beyond the elementary school level.

    It's not going to matter anymore. You're barking up a dead tree. The numbers are falling fast and the reign of the Christians is fucking over. They have, after hundreds of years, lost their social control. Now, they are losing their numbers. People are beginning to take notice of the fact that the philosophy of Jesus is terrific, but that the church itself is terrible and evil. Trying to control people is evil.

    If you're going to influence a person's actions, then you should be able to do it by having the more compelling argument---not through the use of threats or promises, eternal or otherwise. It's a shame that I won't be around to see it, but I think, 500 years from now, Christianity will be considered nothing more than an insignificant little cult.

    Just in the last 25 years:

    https://news.gallup.com/poll/1690/religion.aspx

    Protestants had and lost 20% of the country. Guess where about half of the ones they lost went. Atheist/Agnostics are one in five now---and our numbers are only going to grow. I have to admit, we probably owe a lot of that to the Protestants throwing in with Trump so heavily...that did a lot to reveal who they are as people. Seriously, what was wrong with Marco Rubio or Jeb Bush? As fucking insane as his ideas are, at least Santorum is a nice guy.

    More of the US---probably for the first time---is NOT a member of a church than do consider themselves a member of a church. Read it and weep. More than two out of three do not go to church weekly.

    Barely one in three consider themselves, "Born again," Christians, as compared 45% just twenty years ago.

    Isn't it ironic? The very freedoms that you think Christians are solely responsible for people are using to, well, not be Christians anymore. They are fleeing the church in droves!

    Most recently, we have:

    https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/

    Nearly one in four who are Atheist, Agnostic or Unaffiliated. I hope you live to see that number eclipse 50%---at the current rate, it's not going to take that long. I think that I will live to see it.

    We're not even doing anything---the churches are doing this to themselves by virtue of being awful on social positions. What eternal promises can an Agnostic make? We promise nothing; we offer nothing. In other words, people are increasingly seeing NOTHING as a better alternative to the churches.

    The reign of terror, peer pressure, tribalism and social control is coming to a swift end. These are the beginning of the end times, just not those prophesied in the Book of Revelations.
    Last edited by Mission146; 12-20-2021 at 08:41 AM.

  20. #40
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Yes, Christians separated church from state. Excellent move....made by Christians. Christians also wrote the cConstitution and the Bill of Rights. Every American owes their freedom to Christians and nothing derogatory written about them can change that. Christians led the fight against racism. They've been doing so for hundreds of years.

    I'm not allowed to cross borders illegally. Nor should anyone else have that right. Yes, I know alot about Thomas Jefferson. He coined the phrase, "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness." A Christian tenet.

    Yes, there have been negative things done by Christians. But the positive they've done far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far outweighs the negative. Haters of Christians never acknowledge this.
    They liberated themselves from their own control, then. Besides that, it's pretty easy to give them credit when nearly 100% of Western society were some form of Christians or another, at a time. Others would have faced the threat of actual persecution---not just somebody speaking ill of the church.

    Christianity was used to defend the institution of slavery!!! Here are some Jefferson Davis quotes:

    African slavery, as it exists in the United States, is a moral, a social, and a political blessing.
    My own convictions as to negro slavery are strong. It has its evils and abuses...We recognize the negro as God and God's Book and God's Laws, in nature, tell us to recognize him - our inferior, fitted expressly for servitude...You cannot transform the negro into anything one-tenth as useful or as good as what slavery enables them to be.
    If slavery be a sin, it is not yours. It does not rest on your action for its origin, on your consent for its existence. It is a common law right to property in the service of man; its origin was Divine decree.
    Nothing fills me with deeper sadness than to see a Southerner apologizing for the defense we made of our inheritance.
    Let the gentleman go to Revelation to learn the decree of God - let him go to the Bible. . . . I said that slavery was sanctioned in the Bible, authorized, regulated, and recognized from Genesis to Revelation. . . . Slavery existed then in the earliest ages, and among the chosen people of God; and in Revelation we are told that it shall exist till the end of time shall come. You find it in the Old and New Testaments - in the prophecies, psalms, and the epistles of Paul; you find it recognized - sanctioned everywhere.
    Is that how one leads the fight against racism for hundreds of years?

    Again, when almost everyone in a country is some kind of Christian (at the time), then that necessitates that most good things will have been done, in those times, by Christians. That's like saying that humans are responsible for the good things that humans have done.

    You seem to know a good bit about Thomas Jefferson, perhaps you can enlighten yourself as to more by checking out the Jefferson Bible.
    Last edited by Mission146; 12-20-2021 at 08:48 AM.

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