My apologies to Rob Singer

[MisterV]

But are you atheists lobbying for the eradication of atheism like you are Christianity?

Christianity, and for that matter all religions, should be consigned to the slag heap.

Christianity has been a tremendously successful ongoing MINDFUCK for 2000 years, and all other religions play the same game.

Science and religion cannot coexist.

[accountinquestion]

I know the religous like to argue otherwise but I'd just like to point out that atheism is the lack of belief.

There is very little reason to think that I would share some views with someone else because we share the lack of belief in the supernatural. There is no book of shared belief but rather absence of belief.

Comparing it against any specific religion is silly. You can compare your religion to other religions because they are both that. Atheism or agnosticm is a different thing - call it what you want.

There is no way to eradicate atheism without believing in the supernatural. I went to church as a kid, but at some point you look at all and what motivates people. It is a very pleasant thought, the pearly gates and all that and not just wormfood for a few weeks and maybe a few memories lingering inside close ones - memories which will also disappear sooner than later.

I mean, TBH from an atheist's perspective the argument is just as valid lumping in all religions with others. If you want to compare vs atheists, you should probably include Muslims and Buddhists. Religous vs non-religous. These other comparisons are just bs imo.

[redietz]

It's the old game. Define a lack of belief as a belief.

[jbjb]

It's the old game. Define a lack of belief as a belief.

[mickeycrimm]

But are you atheists lobbying for the eradication of atheism like you are Christianity?

Christianity, and for that matter all religions, should be consigned to the slag heap.

Christianity has been a tremendously successful ongoing MINDFUCK for 2000 years, and all other religions play the same game.

Science and religion cannot coexist.

Atheism is the answer. The Soviets and Chi-Comms are some of the best atheists of all time. They graciously exterminated tens of millions of "counter-revolutionaries" so atheists could live in peace and harmony in their great utopian world. Other than the genocide they like to commit the atheists are real nice people.

[mickeycrimm]

A religious argument arguing against Christianity. Has there ever been a white trash-won argument on this?

This country's biggest mistake ever was boating all those mandingos over here. If their boats all sunk or they just stayed in their shantytowns, we wouldn't have lost hundreds of thousands of good Americans on both sides in the shameful Civil War. And there would be no need for this stupid Black Lives Matter when in fact, most of them really don't. Just check out inner city crime stats and the prisons populations.

When you're right, you're right.

We're charged with spreading the word and I deeply admire those who do, although admittedly, I'm pretty shitty about it.

I vaguely remember a movie from the mid 70's, Mandingo. Starring heavyweight champion Ken Norton. A topic for another thread I guess.

I remember the movie. Ken Norton got boiled in a pot for sleeping with a white woman.

[Mission146]

Atheists have a penchant for imprisonment, torture and murder of innocents. In the 20th century Soviet and Chi-Comm atheists tortured and killed tens of millions of their people. If Christianity is to be blamed for atrocities then so to must atheism. But are you atheists lobbying for the eradication of atheism like you are Christianity?

The organized Atheists? What would that church be called? You realize that I'm (mostly) differentiating between Christians as people and the organized churches themselves, yes?

Besides that, I'm Agnostic anyway. I don't KNOW that there's not a god that created the universe anymore than the Christians know that there is. In my opinion, what available evidence there is does not suggest a god. Based on being internally contradictory, I would say that the God as Christians describe him is extremely unlikely.

I'm also not lobbying for the eradication of anything. As I mentioned before, people are leaving the churches (particularly the Evangelical ones) on their own---and quickly.

[Mission146]

What the hell is Southern Pride? Why would they have pride? They existed as a nation for a few years and LOST their only war quite badly. Every male Confederate soldier should have been executed for treason---no surrender accepted otherwise. They should have let Sherman keep going; he was doing a fabulous job.

Every Union troop should have been executed for invading and making war in territory that didn't belong to them. The southern states legally seceded from the union.

THERE IS NOTHING IN THE CONSTITUTION THAT FORBIDS SECESSION.

AND THERE IS NOTHING IN THE CONSTITUTION THAT SANCTIFIED THE INVASION OF THE SOUTHERN STATES.

The Confederacy won almost all the major battles. The north lost 100,000 more troops than the south. Lincoln kept running thru generals until he found a drunk that would fight a war of attrition. He threw up men to the slaughter in order to win.

Why did the south fight so hard? They were invaded. 90% of Confederate troops were yeoman farmers that didn't own slaves. They fought to protect their homes and families from invasion by the northern aggressors.

With the elites the war was not fought over slavery. It was fought over disunion. Southerners wanted to rid themselves of the union (they had every right to) and the north wanted to preserve the union.

Sherman was a terrorist that committed many atrocities.

They legally seceded from the Union? Do you know why they legally seceded from the Union?

The entire Civil War comes down to slavery...even if that's not the company line. The main thing that the South was concerned about was that U.S.A. wanted to prohibit slavery in its newly acquired territories. Some people might ask, "Well, why would that be a problem for the South? Did they love slavery so much that they wanted to expand it?"

No, it's not so much that they wanted to expand slavery into the new territories specifically. What the South was mostly concerned about is that the new territories would eventually become states, so without getting the institution of slavery in those states, the South was concerned that there would ultimately come a time that Congress could vote to make slavery illegal in all of the land---even if it were to require a Constitutional Amendment. In other words, without expanding slavery (which only maybe would have worked), the South was going to lose the numbers game and the institution of slavery was going to go away.

Southern states didn't want to see that happen, so seceded. Lincoln being elected as POTUS also had a lot to do with it, despite the fact that he had somewhat toned down his anti-slavery rhetoric compared to before and originally intended just to try to keep the Union together.

What in the Constitution sanctified the invasion of the Southern States? Start with the fact that we can declare war on whoever the fuck we want to. It doesn't need to be sanctified.

Guess what, Mickey--=it's war, you do what it takes to win. They didn't fight to protect anything except for their own wallets---why do you think slavery was so important to them in the first place? As far as the, "90% of the Confederate troops," it's the same thing that it always is with the working class fighting the battles of the wealthy and political elites---that's pretty much any war.

The North had every right to try to preserve the Union by virtue of the fact that the USA can declare war on whomever the fuck it wants to.

As far as Sherman goes, Sherman is an example of a true hero and patriot who did what had to be done to bring us to a dominating victory over the South, "War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen; I say let us give them all they want." The South was just lucky that it didn't test Sherman's patience; he could have done far worse.

[Mission146]

Wrong again, long winded one! Perhaps you haven't heard but the internet has made amateur genealogists out of millions of Americans. We are all trading information as we speak. Ancestry.com revolutionized genealogy when they made billions of records available online. I've traced some of my ancestors back 12 generations. I've met scores of distant cousins online. Some where the common ancestor between us might be a 4X or 5X great-grandparent. I write biographical sketches of my ancestors and leave them online for posterity.

I have a huge collection of records. Here's an example. One of my 6X great-grandfathers, Laurence Corley. The house he lived in is preserved in Lexington, South Carolina:

Who gives a shit? Do you think that is, "More than a few short generations," in the Universal sense? We haven't even existed long enough to be a Universal rounding error, and probably won't exist long enough to do so. I guess Sherman must have missed that one, oh well, can't get them all I guess....didn't have Google Maps back then.

[Mission146]

It's the old game. Define a lack of belief as a belief.

An Atheist or Agnostic sermon certainly wouldn't take as long. "Brothers and sisters, we are gathered here today to...oh, right. Cookies and punch in the dining hall."

[Mission146]

But are you atheists lobbying for the eradication of atheism like you are Christianity?

Christianity, and for that matter all religions, should be consigned to the slag heap.

Christianity has been a tremendously successful ongoing MINDFUCK for 2000 years, and all other religions play the same game.

Science and religion cannot coexist.

Atheism is the answer. The Soviets and Chi-Comms are some of the best atheists of all time. They graciously exterminated tens of millions of "counter-revolutionaries" so atheists could live in peace and harmony in their great utopian world. Other than the genocide they like to commit the atheists are real nice people.

I know you're not this stupid. There is no, "Atheist group," that did that. The Marxists did that. Who was responsible for the Inquisition, Mickey? Was it or was it not the organized Roman Catholic Church as a formal entity? My point is that organized religion is terrible, that aside, I have very little concern with what people believe and do nothing to talk them off of it unless they are coming at me with their bullshit.

[Mission146]

We're charged with spreading the word and I deeply admire those who do, although admittedly, I'm pretty shitty about it.

I vaguely remember a movie from the mid 70's, Mandingo. Starring heavyweight champion Ken Norton. A topic for another thread I guess.

In the U.S.A., everyone knows where to find the fucking word, got it? Go spread it somewhere where there's not already a church for practically every city block.

[redietz]

It's the old game. Define a lack of belief as a belief.

An Atheist or Agnostic sermon certainly wouldn't take as long. "Brothers and sisters, we are gathered here today to...oh, right. Cookies and punch in the dining hall."

That was good. I need to hijack that (with proper credit given) sometime.

I haven't had cookies and punch in a while. I did attend a Penn and Teller (famous atheists) party once -- it was a "Bacon and Donuts" party. I learned something very deep and almost religious -- Heineken and Krispy Kreme donuts are not a great combination. I feel like I should spread the word about that. I'm not saying that combo should be a sin, but it might be something a snake would talk you into.

[mickeycrimm]

Atheists have a penchant for imprisonment, torture and murder of innocents. In the 20th century Soviet and Chi-Comm atheists tortured and killed tens of millions of their people. If Christianity is to be blamed for atrocities then so to must atheism. But are you atheists lobbying for the eradication of atheism like you are Christianity?

The organized Atheists? What would that church be called? You realize that I'm (mostly) differentiating between Christians as people and the organized churches themselves, yes?

Besides that, I'm Agnostic anyway. I don't KNOW that there's not a god that created the universe anymore than the Christians know that there is. In my opinion, what available evidence there is does not suggest a god. Based on being internally contradictory, I would say that the God as Christians describe him is extremely unlikely.

I'm also not lobbying for the eradication of anything. As I mentioned before, people are leaving the churches (particularly the Evangelical ones) on their own---and quickly.

Church attendance is down because of the pandemic. There are a billion Christians on the planet. They're not going anywhere. But even if they disappear what are we going to do about the genocidal atheists?

[mickeycrimm]

What the hell is Southern Pride? Why would they have pride? They existed as a nation for a few years and LOST their only war quite badly. Every male Confederate soldier should have been executed for treason---no surrender accepted otherwise. They should have let Sherman keep going; he was doing a fabulous job.

Every Union troop should have been executed for invading and making war in territory that didn't belong to them. The southern states legally seceded from the union.

THERE IS NOTHING IN THE CONSTITUTION THAT FORBIDS SECESSION.

AND THERE IS NOTHING IN THE CONSTITUTION THAT SANCTIFIED THE INVASION OF THE SOUTHERN STATES.

The Confederacy won almost all the major battles. The north lost 100,000 more troops than the south. Lincoln kept running thru generals until he found a drunk that would fight a war of attrition. He threw up men to the slaughter in order to win.

Why did the south fight so hard? They were invaded. 90% of Confederate troops were yeoman farmers that didn't own slaves. They fought to protect their homes and families from invasion by the northern aggressors.

With the elites the war was not fought over slavery. It was fought over disunion. Southerners wanted to rid themselves of the union (they had every right to) and the north wanted to preserve the union.

Sherman was a terrorist that committed many atrocities.

They legally seceded from the Union? Do you know why they legally seceded from the Union?

The entire Civil War comes down to slavery...even if that's not the company line. The main thing that the South was concerned about was that U.S.A. wanted to prohibit slavery in its newly acquired territories. Some people might ask, "Well, why would that be a problem for the South? Did they love slavery so much that they wanted to expand it?"

No, it's not so much that they wanted to expand slavery into the new territories specifically. What the South was mostly concerned about is that the new territories would eventually become states, so without getting the institution of slavery in those states, the South was concerned that there would ultimately come a time that Congress could vote to make slavery illegal in all of the land---even if it were to require a Constitutional Amendment. In other words, without expanding slavery (which only maybe would have worked), the South was going to lose the numbers game and the institution of slavery was going to go away.

Southern states didn't want to see that happen, so seceded. Lincoln being elected as POTUS also had a lot to do with it, despite the fact that he had somewhat toned down his anti-slavery rhetoric compared to before and originally intended just to try to keep the Union together.

What in the Constitution sanctified the invasion of the Southern States? Start with the fact that we can declare war on whoever the fuck we want to. It doesn't need to be sanctified.

Guess what, Mickey--=it's war, you do what it takes to win. They didn't fight to protect anything except for their own wallets---why do you think slavery was so important to them in the first place? As far as the, "90% of the Confederate troops," it's the same thing that it always is with the working class fighting the battles of the wealthy and political elites---that's pretty much any war.

The North had every right to try to preserve the Union by virtue of the fact that the USA can declare war on whomever the fuck it wants to.

As far as Sherman goes, Sherman is an example of a true hero and patriot who did what had to be done to bring us to a dominating victory over the South, "War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen; I say let us give them all they want." The South was just lucky that it didn't test Sherman's patience; he could have done far worse.

War was never declared on the south. You sent hundreds of thousands down to slaughter in conducting an illegal war.

But I see you agree that might makes right, we had a right to conquer the Indians across the continent....and the Mexicans in the southwest. It was our right, correct?

[Mission146]

That was good. I need to hijack that (with proper credit given) sometime.

I haven't had cookies and punch in a while. I did attend a Penn and Teller (famous atheists) party once -- it was a "Bacon and Donuts" party. I learned something very deep and almost religious -- Heineken and Krispy Kreme donuts are not a great combination. I feel like I should spread the word about that. I'm not saying that combo should be a sin, but it might be something a snake would talk you into.

Thank you and don't forget to tip your waitress. Does this mean we're friends again? We should really get into the discussion of scamming as relates both material and non-material advantages...I'm legitimately interested in hearing an expansion on your point of view of that.

[redietz]

That was good. I need to hijack that (with proper credit given) sometime.

I haven't had cookies and punch in a while. I did attend a Penn and Teller (famous atheists) party once -- it was a "Bacon and Donuts" party. I learned something very deep and almost religious -- Heineken and Krispy Kreme donuts are not a great combination. I feel like I should spread the word about that. I'm not saying that combo should be a sin, but it might be something a snake would talk you into.

Thank you and don't forget to tip your waitress. Does this mean we're friends again? We should really get into the discussion of scamming as relates both material and non-material advantages...I'm legitimately interested in hearing an expansion on your point of view of that.

It's cultural anthropology 101. I'm actually serious. This is something you learn in cultural anthropology 101.

In many cultures, scamming non-materially would be considered more egregious than scamming materially. In Star Trek terms, Americans are Ferengi. Many other cultures have been more Klingon. What's worth more -- your word or your bank account?

Will discuss sometime. Hopefully, by the end of 2022, this pandemic is all cleared up, and I can pack up the van and move to LV (cement ponds, movie stars).

[Mission146]

Church attendance is down because of the pandemic. There are a billion Christians on the planet. They're not going anywhere. But even if they disappear what are we going to do about the genocidal atheists?

I'm not even an Atheist and, as far as I am aware, there is no body, "Atheist," that works in a concerted way to effectuate anything. Even if there were, I certainly wouldn't seek it out and would probably find all sorts of reasons not to like the group even if I did.

Church attendance may be down, but I'm not speaking to church attendance alone...I'm speaking to the trend of declared religious affiliation, which has been trending towards Atheism/Agnosticism/Non-Affiliated for a long time and trending away from Christianity---particularly Christianity of the, "Born Again," Evangelical variety.

I don't think that your rank-and-file Christians tend to be genocidal maniacs. Like your boy Trump said, "Some, I assume, are good people," even.

You're simply not going to get it through your head that my problem is with organized religion, not with any particular faith of one variety or another. Granted, I think faith in God is both stupid and illogical, but I don't think there's anything about the mere act of having faith that is inherently malignant. In fact, if all Christians strictly adhered to the teachings of Jesus, (and I'm certain that many Christians wish the others would) then I believe that the popular opinion of the faith would improve. The Catholic Church covering for massively widespread child molestation certainly didn't help, nor do the social positions of the church vis-a-vis trying to get the Government to enact (or not enact) one socially restrictive measure or the other help.

Again, Jesus would simply let individuals make their own decisions on how to behave and, being Jesus, would probably be quite confident of God's ability to sort out the good from the wicked in the end.

So, why should the churches have ever been opposed to the Government recognizing gay marriage, for example? In my opinion, as long as the churches themselves are not being forced to perform the ceremonies or sign anything recognizing people as married, then they really shouldn't care. If homosexuality is indeed a sin, then God will punish both those who act on it (i.e. gay people) and those who would help them act on it in a fashion that is seen as an abomination in the eyes of the Lord. They don't need to use the Government to stop anything.

Beyond that, the Bible indicates that they must adhere to the laws of the land anyway. That's pretty much the entirety of Romans Chapter 13.

[Mission146]

War was never declared on the south. You sent hundreds of thousands down to slaughter in conducting an illegal war.

But I see you agree that might makes right, we had a right to conquer the Indians across the continent....and the Mexicans in the southwest. It was our right, correct?

The Supreme Court disagrees with your opinion. The Supreme Court establishes that the day that Lincoln authorized the naval blockade is the day that the war began and the day that the war was declared over is the day that it ended.

That said, you are correct that Congress did not declare war against the Confederacy. My understanding is that the U.S.A. never officially recognized them as a country. As a result, it was tantamount to treason.

Also, they obviously wouldn't have seceded---at least not right away---had a pro-slavery nominee won the election. I guess, even with all of the crying, the South has at least learned to take it a little better when one of their boys loses.

[redietz]

I just want to insert a little Confederate black humor here. I live at:

1412 Forrest Dale Lane

The street is named, as mickey helped me figure out, for a Civil War Confederate general, whose statue and bust were just yanked out of state buildings this past year. You see, General Forrest was known for two things. One was being the first Grand Dragon of the Klan, and Tennessee-born at that. The other is much worse, so look it up.