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Thread: The History of Slavery

  1. #1
    Did you know the term "slave" is derived from enslaved Slavs owned by Muslims?

    Did you know that Africans became targets for slavery by Europeans only after European nations became better at protecting themselves from slave raids?

    Did you know that Africans practiced slavery?

    Did you know that thousands of free blacks owned slaves in the United States?

    Did you know that the Indians took their 1600 black slaves with them on the Trail of Tears?

    Here's a clinic on the history of slavery by Thomas Sowell:

    "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled is convincing people that sports betting is a contest of who knows the most about sports." Plus EV Analytics

  2. #2
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post

    Did you know that Africans practiced slavery?

    Did you know that thousands of free blacks owned slaves in the United States?

    Did you know that the Indians took their 1600 black slaves with them on the Trail of Tears?
    You struggle with the idea of concepts either being good concepts or bad concepts more than I thought you would.

  3. #3
    "The Civil War was fought over the immediate issue of secessation." Thomas Sowell
    "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled is convincing people that sports betting is a contest of who knows the most about sports." Plus EV Analytics

  4. #4
    Originally Posted by Mission146 View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post

    Did you know that Africans practiced slavery?

    Did you know that thousands of free blacks owned slaves in the United States?

    Did you know that the Indians took their 1600 black slaves with them on the Trail of Tears?
    You struggle with the idea of concepts either being good concepts or bad concepts more than I thought you would.
    You struggle with "I'm better than you" syndrome.

    What you don't seem to understand is that slavery was a universal evil. Asians practiced slavery, Semites practiced slavery, Africans practiced slavery, Polynesions practiced slavery. American Indians practiced slavery before the arrival of europeans.

    YOUR ANCESTORS practiced slavery.
    Last edited by mickeycrimm; 12-27-2021 at 07:21 AM.
    "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled is convincing people that sports betting is a contest of who knows the most about sports." Plus EV Analytics

  5. #5
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    "The Civil War was fought over the immediate issue of secessation." Thomas Sowell
    As in, what? That the war wouldn't have happened at the time that it did had the South not seceded? Yes, I agree completely. Now...why did the South secede, though?

    My advice to you is just to acknowledge that the Civil War is predominantly about slavery, then having done so, saying why else it was fought. Anything else just makes it look like you're desperate for it to be about something other than slavery, but of what consequence is it? You did not personally decide to fight in the Civil War and weren't alive at the time.

    I'm not suggesting that the South shouldn't have pride in something Southern, if it's absolutely necessary for them to do so. There is the disgusting combination of chicken and waffles that Southerners can take as a matter of pride, nasty ass white gravy, Southern Evangelicalism (of the same variety that supported and defended slavery, of course) or the fact that they have the worst sounding accents in all of known civilization, both English-speaking and not...take pride in one of those things.

    But, for Southerners to continue to try to defend that they had the right of it in the Civil War is just a bad look.

    Seriously, though, why chicken and waffles? Is it really that tough for people from the South to go just one meal without BOTH added sugars (syrup) and saturated fats?

  6. #6
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post

    You struggle with "I'm better than you" syndrome.

    What you don't seem to understand is that slavery was a universal evil. Asians practice slavery, Semites practiced slavery, Africans practiced slavery, Polynesions practiced slavery.

    YOUR ANCESTORS practiced slavery.
    Yes, I am a bit of an arrogant cunt with a massive intellectual superiority complex, aren't I?

    In any event, the history of slavery does nothing to make slavery morally right, which is why I am guessing we no longer have it.

  7. #7
    Oh, also NASCAR. Being transfixed by things moving around in circles also started in The South, so you guys can also be proud of that.

  8. #8
    Originally Posted by Mission146 View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    "The Civil War was fought over the immediate issue of secessation." Thomas Sowell
    As in, what? That the war wouldn't have happened at the time that it did had the South not seceded? Yes, I agree completely. Now...why did the South secede, though?

    My advice to you is just to acknowledge that the Civil War is predominantly about slavery, then having done so, saying why else it was fought. Anything else just makes it look like you're desperate for it to be about something other than slavery, but of what consequence is it? You did not personally decide to fight in the Civil War and weren't alive at the time.

    I'm not suggesting that the South shouldn't have pride in something Southern, if it's absolutely necessary for them to do so. There is the disgusting combination of chicken and waffles that Southerners can take as a matter of pride, nasty ass white gravy, Southern Evangelicalism (of the same variety that supported and defended slavery, of course) or the fact that they have the worst sounding accents in all of known civilization, both English-speaking and not...take pride in one of those things.

    But, for Southerners to continue to try to defend that they had the right of it in the Civil War is just a bad look.

    Seriously, though, why chicken and waffles? Is it really that tough for people from the South to go just one meal without BOTH added sugars (syrup) and saturated fats?
    Southern elites (slaveholders) had dominated politics on the national level since the founding. They left the Union because they could see that would no longer be the case in the future and it could possibly lead to the end of slavery. But its irrelevant. You and redietz don't really know your history other than what you've been brainwashed to believe.

    Why can't you admit the south wanted out of the Union so the north invaded. That was the reason for the war. Was slavery wrong? Of course. Am I happy it ended when it did? Of course. But the south wanted out of the Union and the north didn't want to let them go. That was the reason for the war. My advice to you is go back and research the situation to relieve yourself of the brainwashing you took.

    Chicken and waffles? You need to do your research, sonny boy. Hey, I'm not making this shit up. Chicken and waffles came from Pennsylvania. Now....let's see....do we know anyone that lives in Pennsylvania....Oh!....That's right!....YOU LIVE IN PENNSYLVANIA!!!! What's for dinner, mish? Chicken and waffles? LOLOL!!!

    Chicken and waffles is primarily eaten by blacks. What you need to do is quit pretending you're not racist. Everyone, including blacks, are on to you. They are not going to like the way you make fun of them and their chicken and waffles.
    Last edited by mickeycrimm; 12-27-2021 at 08:08 AM.
    "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled is convincing people that sports betting is a contest of who knows the most about sports." Plus EV Analytics

  9. #9
    Originally Posted by Mission146 View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post

    You struggle with "I'm better than you" syndrome.

    What you don't seem to understand is that slavery was a universal evil. Asians practice slavery, Semites practiced slavery, Africans practiced slavery, Polynesions practiced slavery.

    YOUR ANCESTORS practiced slavery.
    Yes, I am a bit of an arrogant cunt with a massive intellectual superiority complex, aren't I?

    In any event, the history of slavery does nothing to make slavery morally right, which is why I am guessing we no longer have it.
    I never said slavery was morally correct. I'm glad it ended in the U.S when it did. However, slavery carried on in the world well into the 20th century. And that included the enslavement of whites.
    "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled is convincing people that sports betting is a contest of who knows the most about sports." Plus EV Analytics

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by Mission146 View Post
    Oh, also NASCAR. Being transfixed by things moving around in circles also started in The South, so you guys can also be proud of that.
    Never been to a NASCAR race. But I did know moonshiners and rumrunners when I was a kid. Shade tree mechanics souping up their cars. Moonshiners with their hot cars are how NASCAR got it's start. Amazing how they could drive, especially on dirt roads, to shake off the law dogs.
    "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled is convincing people that sports betting is a contest of who knows the most about sports." Plus EV Analytics

  11. #11
    Originally Posted by Mission146 View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    "The Civil War was fought over the immediate issue of secessation." Thomas Sowell
    As in, what? That the war wouldn't have happened at the time that it did had the South not seceded? Yes, I agree completely. Now...why did the South secede, though?


    I'm not suggesting that the South shouldn't have pride in something Southern, if it's absolutely necessary or the fact that they have the worst sounding accents in all of known civilization, both English-speaking and not...

    ?
    Hard disagree. Southern accent isnít attractive, but the American northeast like Philly/NJ, NY, Boston has BY FAR the most annoying accent ever known to civilization. And then they have to go about moving all around the damn country but bringing their stupid accents with them rather than getting speech therapy. Somalians come in second, sound like someone is trying to hock a loogie.

  12. #12
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post

    Southern elites (slaveholders) had dominated politics on the national level since the founding. They left the Union because they could see that would no longer be the case in the future and it could possible lead to the end of slavery. But its irrelevant. You and redietz don't really know your history other than what you've been brainwashed to believe.
    Dude, I tried, but I'm done. It is becoming increasingly evident that, despite having quoted them on several occasions, you are not actually reading any of my posts. I have to look at it in the light most favorable to you and suggest you are not reading them, otherwise, the only possible conclusion is that you are reading them, but are failing to comprehend them.

    I have already stipulated that is precisely why they seceded from the Union. Specifically, I said that it was because slavery was looking like it would not be expanded to any of the new territories, which would eventually themselves become states, which could theoretically lead to enough Congressional support that slavery would be eliminated even from the Southern states---perhaps even by Constitutional Amendment.

    Why can't you admit the south wanted out of the Union? The north invaded. That was the reason for the war. Was slavery wrong? Of course. Am I happy it ended when it did? Of course. But the south wanted out of the Union and the north didn't want to let them go. That was the reason for the war. My advice to you is go back and research the situation to relieve yourself of the brainwashing you took.
    Further proof that this conversation is pointless. Of course the South wanted out of the Union. Do you think that I believe that the Southern states seceded because they did not want out of the Union? I would say that the goal of leaving the Union was to, you know, leave the Union.

    The direct event that started the actual war was the attack on Fort Sumter. The matter of the legality of secession, as I have already pointed out, was still on the table in the Senate. In fact, the Southern Senators could have been in the Senate to represent their own positions vis-a-vis this matter, but they chose not to be and instead returned to their home states. As I have also already pointed out, it wasn't until three months AFTER the attack on Fort Sumter that the remaining Senators officially declared that the Southern Senate seats had been vacated.

    You can assume that the North would not have permitted the secession...and I can agree that it's likely they wouldn't have...but neither of us can know because the South did not exhaust all of the options that they had available to them prior to the attack on Fort Sumter.

    Anyway, once again, why did the South want out of the Union? You said it in your first paragraph? Fundamentally, I'm not certain we actually have a disagreement, at this point.

    Chicken and waffles? You need to do your research, sonny boy. Hey, I'm not making this shit up. Chicken and waffles came from Pennsylvania. Now....let's see....do we know anyone that lives in Pennsylvania....Oh!....That's right!....YOU LIVE IN PENNSYLVANIA!!!! What's for dinner, mish? Chicken and waffles? LOLOL!!!
    Dinner? I thought it was a breakfast item. The origin of chicken and waffles is in dispute:

    https://www.myrecipes.com/extracrisp...hern-invention

    But, there's little question that it has been most embraced in the South.

    For my part, I've never had it. It was just part of the cheap shot I was taking against the region.

    What you need to do is quit pretending you're not racist. Everyone, including blacks, are on to you.
    Huh? I just do what I do and say what I say. If someone wants to take from anything that I do or say that I'm a racist, then that's for them to decide. Short of the notion of, "Implicit bias," (which is quite a Far Left concept, by the way) I would find it very difficult for anyone to come to the conclusion that I'm racist...but if that's the conclusion they reach, that's fine.

  13. #13
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post

    I never said slavery was morally correct. I'm glad it ended in the U.S when it did. However, slavery carried on in the world well into the 20th century. And that included the enslavement of whites.
    It wouldn't have ended when it did (would have been much later) except as an indirect consequence of the Civil War, so pick your poison.

  14. #14
    Originally Posted by mcap View Post
    Hard disagree. Southern accent isn’t attractive, but the American northeast like Philly/NJ, NY, Boston has BY FAR the most annoying accent ever known to civilization. And then they have to go about moving all around the damn country but bringing their stupid accents with them rather than getting speech therapy. Somalians come in second, sound like someone is trying to hock a loogie.
    I would put Boston/New York/New Jersey/Philly region as a very close second. They have a very unfortunate accent particularly in that it's one that you hear and are immediately disinclined from trusting that person...but that could tie into the fact that the politics of those regions has historically been so corrupt.

    I make no claims to any familiarity with the Somalian accent, so admit that I should have prefaced my earlier statement with, "Of all of the accents I'm familiar with."

  15. #15
    It is also a fact that multiple of the Southern generals did not have a position, in particular, vis-a-vis slavery. Furthermore, a few of the Southern Generals...and I'd have to look again to recall which ones...were not even necessarily in favor of secession, but felt that their loyalty to their individual states trumped their loyalty to the Union (This would be a very common position for people on both sides of the Mason-Dixon to hold at that time).

    I think Longstreet might be one of the better examples of a Southern General who just felt that his loyalties were, first and foremost, to his state--regardless of what he, personally, would have wanted. As I understand Longstreet, he was no personal fan of secession.

  16. #16
    Originally Posted by Mission146 View Post
    Originally Posted by mcap View Post
    Hard disagree. Southern accent isn’t attractive, but the American northeast like Philly/NJ, NY, Boston has BY FAR the most annoying accent ever known to civilization. And then they have to go about moving all around the damn country but bringing their stupid accents with them rather than getting speech therapy. Somalians come in second, sound like someone is trying to hock a loogie.
    I would put Boston/New York/New Jersey/Philly region as a very close second. They have a very unfortunate accent particularly in that it's one that you hear and are immediately disinclined from trusting that person...
    If that is true perhaps that is part of the problem with making Fauci the face of “trustworthy science.”

  17. #17
    They say, "Perception is reality," but we also know that stereotypes (obviously) don't always apply to specific individuals---so, who the hell knows?

  18. #18
    Whipping is an efficiency question.
    Slavery was great in Civ IV until it gets abolished.
    They abolished Slavery for good after Civ IV Beyond the Sword.
    Hopefully, they bring it back in Civ VII.


  19. #19
    What I find to be absent from the discussion, and not surprisingly given both mickey and Mission's America-centric perspectives, is the international context in which the North and South found themselves. In most countries, slavery was eliminated in steps -- first the auctions went, but people could own and trade slaves. It was step by step, and the British Empire had different transitions in different places, for example.

    The U.S. was behind much of the westernized world in phasing out slavery, as evidenced by those Star Spangled banner lyrics from years previous. Slaves going over to the Brit side could become free men.

    By the time the Civil War began, the South was becoming (or had already become) an international anachronism still dependent on slave labor.

  20. #20
    The basic problem with mickey's argument that the South was no worse than central Africa or Greece or Mesopotamia or anywhere/when that had slaves is that without an international historical context, you can take that argument to its logical conclusion to justify anything. There were undoubtedly times when this tribe ate that tribe and various genetic strains of humans ate each other, so you can say, "See, the Donner Party was just carrying on a tradition that once existed in central Africa and Mesopotamia and...." Perfectly normal, natural behavior, traditional human behavior. And since humans may have eaten each for longer than they haven't, everything gets justified.

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