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Thread: My Strategy For Cashman Bingo

  1. #81
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    What some are calling "gaffed" is nothing more than weighted randomness which is quite legal under gaming regulations.
    Distinction without a difference? If the weighting is sufficiently extreme, it becomes functionally equivalent to gaffing.

    Originally Posted by The Boz View Post
    Could it be similar to the Must Hits like River Dragon that are weighted to almost always run to the end, but theoretically can be hit on any spin?
    Good example.

    The regs include a few general safeguards such as the 75% minimum payout. Here's one from technical standard 2:

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    Generally though, designers are allowed to be very, very tricky. I'm looking at it from the perspective of accurate analysis. Some of these new games are very difficult. For a highly competent slot AP, this may be a good thing because it discourages competition.

  2. #82
    In a uniform random distribution, every outcome is equally likely. For example, each card in a 52 card deck has the same chance of being selected (assumes the deck is thoroughly shuffled). Another random distribution is the bell curve. Values at the tails of the distribution are less likely to occur and those at the center are more likely. Both are random distributions. And so it is with Cashman - in a grid at reset, the distribution used more closely resembles a uniform distribution. However as the grid becomes more populated other random distributions are used where it is more likely to select a populated square than an empty square. Without the par sheet, the slot AP must guestimate these distributions. But random they are - just not uniform.

  3. #83
    Originally Posted by The Boz View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by accountinquestion View Post
    I still feel this game seems so unnaturally gaffed that it won't get that much play and be removed. You go through a few bingo cycles where it is yanking you round with the nonsense and you're likely to not enjoy yourself IMO.

    Lots of games are like this, but you don't see the gaff in play every other spin and keeping you from what is CLEARLY the objective.
    Gaffing as defined by gaming regulations is illegal. What do you think is gaffed?
    Certainly no expert but I believe there is a way to legally do it but maybe “gaffing” isn’t the right word. Could it be similar to the Must Hits like River Dragon that are weighted to almost always run to the end, but theoretically can be hit on any spin?

    Could someone like this be done on a game like CB where it’s harder to fill the last spot?

    Again just a thought and no programming experience to back it up. But I agree with accounting that it appears something is up that isn’t totally random.
    IMO anything is gaffed when the graphics are not accurately showing you the randomness.

    Weirdly enough I can't even find the word in the dictionary in the way that we use it.

    There are tons of wheel spins that are gaffed. They're literally rigged.

    Say you have a carnival game and people in theory can beat it, but it is rigged. That's gaffed. Not sure how Cashman is any different?

    With a bingo card, it is the same deal. We all know what bingo is supposed to be like and this shit is clearly rigged ! This is why I don't think people will like the game much. They probably realized that if they made it more legitimate that the gameplay was less fun? Put up bingo coins far less, make them a bit larger.. but I'm sure game designers went through all that.
    I wander through the path of life. Wondering. Wondering what my next signature on VCT should be.

  4. #84
    Played 4 sessions of this game yesterday.

    First machine I checked had a major on the board, coordinated with the free space and also coordinated with 2 other spots.

    $1.50 denomination, took 84 spins to hit bingo, not connected to the major unfortunately. Lost 15.33 units.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  5. #85
    The next 3 plays were on a different machine in the same bank, all on the same machine (as each other).

    An old lady had been on it before me and had been jumping around from denomination to denomination. 10-20 spins at 0.75, then switch to 1.50 for another 10-20 spins, then back to 0.75, etc. I think she played 2.25 for awhile too. Maybe she jumped down in denomination due to running low on money. She dumped $200 into the machine while I was watching, not sure how much she put in before I got there. Because she was jumping around instead of sticking to one denomination, the 0.75, 1.50 and 2.25 boards were all mostly filled but she never actually hit bingo.

    0.75: no major or maxi, but ~95 units on the board. Took 181 spins to hit bingo, lost 10 units.

    1.50: no major or maxi, but ~133 units on the board. Took 153 spins to hit bingo, lost 72.5 units. Only hit 1 set of free games. I believe the bingo line that hit was the worst possible bingo pay-wise.

    2.25: no major or maxi but ~68 units on the board. Board was almost completely full. I should have taken a photo to be certain, but I believe there were only 7 open spaces on the board, and 5 would have completed a bingo. I hemmed and hawed about playing this since 68u is a little light. I decided to play it under the guise of 'doing research' but to be honest it was probably partially due to the tilt of having lost 3 straight plays that were all quite good. Discipline has always been one of my biggest strengths when it comes to AP stuff so I'm quite disappointed in myself in retrospect. Took 192 spins to hit bingo, lost 17.5 units. On the third spin a $9.00/4u coin came out to push the board over 70u, so 189 of the 192 spins were over the 70u threshold, so I do feel like I had an edge over the course of this play but still annoyed with myself. Incredibly, a maxi (around $150/67u) was added to the board over the course of play and was included in the bingo I hit and I still managed to lose 17.5 units. Without it I would have gotten absolutely murdered.

    Of these last 3 plays, it seemed to take an inordinate amount of spins to hit a bingo, given how much time/spins/money I saw the old lady put into the machine prior to me getting on it in addition to my own.

    Then again the casino where I played it is an Indian casino whose closest competition is probably an hour away so they pretty much have a monopoly in the area. I've always felt like the machines there might have a much lower RTP than similar machines elsewhere because of this. In the past I've tried to set my thresholds for playing higher than the traditional guidelines because of this and have probably missed out on some plays because of it. I might end up doing that here. Possibly set my minimum board value to 80 or even 90 units instead of 70 or something like that.


    Originally Posted by accountinquestion View Post
    I still feel this game seems so unnaturally gaffed that it won't get that much play and be removed. You go through a few bingo cycles where it is yanking you round with the nonsense and you're likely to not enjoy yourself IMO.
    I can definitely see this as well given what I've observed. Hopefully we're wrong.


    Mickey, it's been about 2 months since you've posted in this thread. Assuming you've been playing and collecting more data in the interim, do you still use 70u as the threshold for board value assuming no major or maxi?

  6. #86
    Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    Of these last 3 plays, it seemed to take an inordinate amount of spins to hit a bingo, given how much time/spins/money I saw the old lady put into the machine prior to me getting on it in addition to my own.

    Then again the casino where I played it is an Indian casino whose closest competition is probably an hour away so they pretty much have a monopoly in the area. I've always felt like the machines there might have a much lower RTP than similar machines elsewhere because of this.
    Thanks for the data. I've only played a few times and never from reset, but in post #53 I recapped estimates from this thread and also WOV forum.

    Spins to achieve a 1-away: 37
    Spins to bingo after achieving a 1-away: 78
    Total spins from reset to bingo: 115

    If you're on tight machines, maybe those numbers would go up.

    From the design perspective, they want players to be invested, so it's logical to allow the 1-away very quickly -- even if it seems dishonest to my sensibility.

  7. #87
    Originally Posted by Don Perignom View Post
    Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    Of these last 3 plays, it seemed to take an inordinate amount of spins to hit a bingo, given how much time/spins/money I saw the old lady put into the machine prior to me getting on it in addition to my own.

    Then again the casino where I played it is an Indian casino whose closest competition is probably an hour away so they pretty much have a monopoly in the area. I've always felt like the machines there might have a much lower RTP than similar machines elsewhere because of this.
    Thanks for the data. I've only played a few times and never from reset, but in post #53 I recapped estimates from this thread and also WOV forum.

    Spins to achieve a 1-away: 37
    Spins to bingo after achieving a 1-away: 78
    Total spins from reset to bingo: 115

    If you're on tight machines, maybe those numbers would go up.
    Yeah, I did see that. Only time will tell if I'm running bad or the machines are tight here (or both).

    Originally Posted by Don Perignom View Post
    From the design perspective, they want players to be invested, so it's logical to allow the 1-away very quickly -- even if it seems dishonest to my sensibility.
    Yeah, I agree with that.

  8. #88
    Originally Posted by The Boz View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by accountinquestion View Post
    I still feel this game seems so unnaturally gaffed that it won't get that much play and be removed. You go through a few bingo cycles where it is yanking you round with the nonsense and you're likely to not enjoy yourself IMO.

    Lots of games are like this, but you don't see the gaff in play every other spin and keeping you from what is CLEARLY the objective.
    Gaffing as defined by gaming regulations is illegal. What do you think is gaffed?
    Certainly no expert but I believe there is a way to legally do it but maybe “gaffing” isn’t the right word. Could it be similar to the Must Hits like River Dragon that are weighted to almost always run to the end, but theoretically can be hit on any spin?

    Could someone like this be done on a game like CB where it’s harder to fill the last spot?

    Again just a thought and no programming experience to back it up. But I agree with accounting that it appears something is up that isn’t totally random.
    I have yet to see a River Dragon hit before 491 and 4990. Sample base of nearly 500, played and observed.

  9. #89
    Originally Posted by accountinquestion View Post
    Originally Posted by The Boz View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post

    Gaffing as defined by gaming regulations is illegal. What do you think is gaffed?
    Certainly no expert but I believe there is a way to legally do it but maybe “gaffing” isn’t the right word. Could it be similar to the Must Hits like River Dragon that are weighted to almost always run to the end, but theoretically can be hit on any spin?

    Could someone like this be done on a game like CB where it’s harder to fill the last spot?

    Again just a thought and no programming experience to back it up. But I agree with accounting that it appears something is up that isn’t totally random.
    IMO anything is gaffed when the graphics are not accurately showing you the randomness.

    Weirdly enough I can't even find the word in the dictionary in the way that we use it.

    There are tons of wheel spins that are gaffed. They're literally rigged.

    Say you have a carnival game and people in theory can beat it, but it is rigged. That's gaffed. Not sure how Cashman is any different?

    With a bingo card, it is the same deal. We all know what bingo is supposed to be like and this shit is clearly rigged ! This is why I don't think people will like the game much. They probably realized that if they made it more legitimate that the gameplay was less fun? Put up bingo coins far less, make them a bit larger.. but I'm sure game designers went through all that.
    Plops love this game. Big plus that the Cashman name is legendary. Over 20 years old if memory serves me right. One of the first penny slots that came on the floors.

  10. #90
    Originally Posted by Ozzy View Post
    Originally Posted by accountinquestion View Post
    Originally Posted by The Boz View Post

    Certainly no expert but I believe there is a way to legally do it but maybe “gaffing” isn’t the right word. Could it be similar to the Must Hits like River Dragon that are weighted to almost always run to the end, but theoretically can be hit on any spin?

    Could someone like this be done on a game like CB where it’s harder to fill the last spot?

    Again just a thought and no programming experience to back it up. But I agree with accounting that it appears something is up that isn’t totally random.
    IMO anything is gaffed when the graphics are not accurately showing you the randomness.

    Weirdly enough I can't even find the word in the dictionary in the way that we use it.

    There are tons of wheel spins that are gaffed. They're literally rigged.

    Say you have a carnival game and people in theory can beat it, but it is rigged. That's gaffed. Not sure how Cashman is any different?

    With a bingo card, it is the same deal. We all know what bingo is supposed to be like and this shit is clearly rigged ! This is why I don't think people will like the game much. They probably realized that if they made it more legitimate that the gameplay was less fun? Put up bingo coins far less, make them a bit larger.. but I'm sure game designers went through all that.
    Plops love this game. Big plus that the Cashman name is legendary. Over 20 years old if memory serves me right. One of the first penny slots that came on the floors.
    I noticed that this weekend. Game is fairly popular. People just tapping away. Game bugs me the way it is so gaffed but what doesn't bug me?
    I wander through the path of life. Wondering. Wondering what my next signature on VCT should be.

  11. #91
    Originally Posted by accountinquestion View Post
    Originally Posted by Ozzy View Post
    Originally Posted by accountinquestion View Post

    IMO anything is gaffed when the graphics are not accurately showing you the randomness.

    Weirdly enough I can't even find the word in the dictionary in the way that we use it.

    There are tons of wheel spins that are gaffed. They're literally rigged.

    Say you have a carnival game and people in theory can beat it, but it is rigged. That's gaffed. Not sure how Cashman is any different?

    With a bingo card, it is the same deal. We all know what bingo is supposed to be like and this shit is clearly rigged ! This is why I don't think people will like the game much. They probably realized that if they made it more legitimate that the gameplay was less fun? Put up bingo coins far less, make them a bit larger.. but I'm sure game designers went through all that.
    Plops love this game. Big plus that the Cashman name is legendary. Over 20 years old if memory serves me right. One of the first penny slots that came on the floors.
    I noticed that this weekend. Game is fairly popular. People just tapping away. Game bugs me the way it is so gaffed but what doesn't bug me?
    Used to bother me too until I realized that all a slot machine can really offer to a regular player is the illusion of almost winning or being close to winning.

    They are going to hold 10% - 15% of player’s money no matter what. If they just kept that amount of each spin it would be pretty obvious & boring to the players.

    So they have to constantly come up with ever more creative ways of making people think they are so close to winning or they almost won while still being able to hold 10%-15% of the money.

    Any ethical considerations aside, you really almost have to admire how slot manufacturers can keep successfully pulling this off year after year.
    The secret to success is quitting while you’re ahead or quitting while you’re behind, especially at some arbitrary preselected number.

  12. #92
    As long as you're tracking the relevant data, or more likely piggybacking off someone like Mickey who is, who cares how gaffed it is?

  13. #93
    Originally Posted by smurgerburger View Post
    As long as you're tracking the relevant data, or more likely piggybacking off someone like Mickey who is, who cares how gaffed it is?
    Exactly.

    Or you can also just quit once your up a certain amount or down a certain amount regardless of the number, positions, & values of the bingo coins.
    The secret to success is quitting while you’re ahead or quitting while you’re behind, especially at some arbitrary preselected number.

  14. #94
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Originally Posted by accountinquestion View Post
    Curiously have any player-posters with credibility seen the whole screen get hit at once?

    I've heard of it, but not sure if anyone I know has personally seen it, so I have to wonder....

    Also I have a sample of a few plays I can throw into the pile, but I have to look at phone pics and I'm lazy.

    I have numerous times. Once I had it happen twice on the same bank. Not same machine though.
    This is revealing.

    Do you remember maxie telling us he doesn't vulture?
    Do you remember maxie telling us he made far superior money on super advanced stuff that only a few know?
    Do you remember him telling us that slot AP's are slugs.
    Do you remember him telling us he wished they pulled those machines to get rid of the lightweight slot AP's?Do you remember him telling us slot AP wasn't worth his time?
    Do you remember him telling us he had to ask a friend how much slot AP was worth?

    Well, his statement here "I have numerous times" about the whole screen hit tells a story. Cashman is a relatively new game. I have about 70 plays. I've yet to hit the whole screen pay. It's a rare hit.

    Do you know what that means? The only way maxiepunk could have hit the whole screen pay "NUMEROUS TIMES" is if he put in literally several hundred plays.

    The only way he could get that many plays in since that game has been out is if he is out there walking the casinos from dawn till dusk everyday for months.

    In other words, maxiepuke is just another run of the mill vegas slot vulture speed walking the casinos for plays. Most likely a bottomfeeder to. Eating dollar hot dogs. Checking garbage cans for coupons. Checking the machines for credits. Looking on the floor for money. A seaguller from hell.

    But he wants you to think he's some sort of advanced gambler well above everyone else. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
    Maxpen.Is.The.Forum.Bitch

  15. #95
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Originally Posted by accountinquestion View Post
    Curiously have any player-posters with credibility seen the whole screen get hit at once?

    I've heard of it, but not sure if anyone I know has personally seen it, so I have to wonder....

    Also I have a sample of a few plays I can throw into the pile, but I have to look at phone pics and I'm lazy.

    I have numerous times. Once I had it happen twice on the same bank. Not same machine though.
    This is revealing.

    Do you remember maxie telling us he doesn't vulture?
    Do you remember maxie telling us he made far superior money on super advanced stuff that only a few know?
    Do you remember him telling us that slot AP's are slugs.
    Do you remember him telling us he wished they pulled those machines to get rid of the lightweight slot AP's?Do you remember him telling us slot AP wasn't worth his time?
    Do you remember him telling us he had to ask a friend how much slot AP was worth?

    Well, his statement here "I have numerous times" about the whole screen hit tells a story. Cashman is a relatively new game. I have about 70 plays. I've yet to hit the whole screen pay. It's a rare hit.

    Do you know what that means? The only way maxiepunk could have hit the whole screen pay "NUMEROUS TIMES" is if he put in literally several hundred plays.

    The only way he could get that many plays in since that game has been out is if he is out there walking the casinos from dawn till dusk everyday for months.

    In other words, maxiepuke is just another run of the mill vegas slot vulture speed walking the casinos for plays. Most likely a bottomfeeder to. Eating dollar hot dogs. Checking garbage cans for coupons. Checking the machines for credits. Looking on the floor for money. A seaguller from hell.

    But he wants you to think he's some sort of advanced gambler well above everyone else. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
    Or you have a place that was dumping enough progressive money into it to make it significantly worthwhile. But I understand some 2 bit hobo crossing the country scavenging these machines for $2 ev plays overlooking that..RIP

    Charge your scooter battery and get back to work. Plug in your brain while you're at it.
    Last edited by MaxPen; 05-12-2022 at 07:35 PM.

  16. #96
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post


    I have numerous times. Once I had it happen twice on the same bank. Not same machine though.
    This is revealing.

    Do you remember maxie telling us he doesn't vulture?
    Do you remember maxie telling us he made far superior money on super advanced stuff that only a few know?
    Do you remember him telling us that slot AP's are slugs.
    Do you remember him telling us he wished they pulled those machines to get rid of the lightweight slot AP's?Do you remember him telling us slot AP wasn't worth his time?
    Do you remember him telling us he had to ask a friend how much slot AP was worth?

    Well, his statement here "I have numerous times" about the whole screen hit tells a story. Cashman is a relatively new game. I have about 70 plays. I've yet to hit the whole screen pay. It's a rare hit.

    Do you know what that means? The only way maxiepunk could have hit the whole screen pay "NUMEROUS TIMES" is if he put in literally several hundred plays.

    The only way he could get that many plays in since that game has been out is if he is out there walking the casinos from dawn till dusk everyday for months.

    In other words, maxiepuke is just another run of the mill vegas slot vulture speed walking the casinos for plays. Most likely a bottomfeeder to. Eating dollar hot dogs. Checking garbage cans for coupons. Checking the machines for credits. Looking on the floor for money. A seaguller from hell.

    But he wants you to think he's some sort of advanced gambler well above everyone else. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
    Or you have a place that was dumping enough progressive money into it to make it significantly worthwhile. But I understand some 2 bit hobo crossing the country scavenging these machines for $2 ev plays overlooking that..RIP

    Charge your scooter battery and get back to work. Plug in your brain while you're at it.
    Here's maxie finally admitting he's nothing but a lowly vegas vulture scratching with the rest of the chickens. But he's stupid enough he wants us to believe they dumped progressive money hundreds of times into just one bank. Hahahahahahaha! Mental midget.
    Maxpen.Is.The.Forum.Bitch

  17. #97
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post

    This is revealing.

    Do you remember maxie telling us he doesn't vulture?
    Do you remember maxie telling us he made far superior money on super advanced stuff that only a few know?
    Do you remember him telling us that slot AP's are slugs.
    Do you remember him telling us he wished they pulled those machines to get rid of the lightweight slot AP's?Do you remember him telling us slot AP wasn't worth his time?
    Do you remember him telling us he had to ask a friend how much slot AP was worth?

    Well, his statement here "I have numerous times" about the whole screen hit tells a story. Cashman is a relatively new game. I have about 70 plays. I've yet to hit the whole screen pay. It's a rare hit.

    Do you know what that means? The only way maxiepunk could have hit the whole screen pay "NUMEROUS TIMES" is if he put in literally several hundred plays.

    The only way he could get that many plays in since that game has been out is if he is out there walking the casinos from dawn till dusk everyday for months.

    In other words, maxiepuke is just another run of the mill vegas slot vulture speed walking the casinos for plays. Most likely a bottomfeeder to. Eating dollar hot dogs. Checking garbage cans for coupons. Checking the machines for credits. Looking on the floor for money. A seaguller from hell.

    But he wants you to think he's some sort of advanced gambler well above everyone else. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
    Or you have a place that was dumping enough progressive money into it to make it significantly worthwhile. But I understand some 2 bit hobo crossing the country scavenging these machines for $2 ev plays overlooking that..RIP

    Charge your scooter battery and get back to work. Plug in your brain while you're at it.
    Here's maxie finally admitting he's nothing but a lowly vegas vulture scratching with the rest of the chickens. But he's stupid enough he wants us to believe they dumped progressive money hundreds of times into just one bank. Hahahahahahaha! Mental midget.

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Views: 120
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  18. #98
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post

    Or you have a place that was dumping enough progressive money into it to make it significantly worthwhile. But I understand some 2 bit hobo crossing the country scavenging these machines for $2 ev plays overlooking that..RIP

    Charge your scooter battery and get back to work. Plug in your brain while you're at it.
    Here's maxie finally admitting he's nothing but a lowly vegas vulture scratching with the rest of the chickens. But he's stupid enough he wants us to believe they dumped progressive money hundreds of times into just one bank. Hahahahahahaha! Mental midget.

    Name:  IMG6895852966192593010.jpg
Views: 120
Size:  41.5 KB
    Maxie standing by at attention until I make a post. He can't wait for me to post. He's spending all his time making meme's.

    I own the mental midget.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

    Now go wash your cumsack ass, maxie.
    Maxpen.Is.The.Forum.Bitch

  19. #99
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post

    Here's maxie finally admitting he's nothing but a lowly vegas vulture scratching with the rest of the chickens. But he's stupid enough he wants us to believe they dumped progressive money hundreds of times into just one bank. Hahahahahahaha! Mental midget.

    Name:  IMG6895852966192593010.jpg
Views: 120
Size:  41.5 KB
    Maxie standing by at attention until I make a post. He can't wait for me to post. He's spending all his time making meme's.

    I own the mental midget.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

    Now go wash your cumsack ass, maxie.
    I am pretty much done with you. I was hoping for a battle of wit. But you really are completely unarmed. The only thing you have is some sort of weird shit and ass fixation.
    Last edited by MaxPen; 05-12-2022 at 11:30 PM.

  20. #100
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    I am pretty much done with you. I was hoping for a battle of wit. But you really are completely unarmed. The only thing you have is some sort of weird shit and ass fixation.
    So now maxie is crying uncle. Hahahahahaha!!! That didn't take much. Harass him back and the little crybaby bitch heads for the hills.

    maxie started the homo shit with his nine inch bullshit.
    Maxpen.Is.The.Forum.Bitch

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