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Thread: Handpays to rise to $5,000+?

  1. #1
    There's an attempt to pass the SLOT Act, which would change the $1200 machine reporting requirement to $5000. The justification comes from inflation, where $5000 today is equivalent to under $1200 in 1977, which was the last time there was an adjustment.

    https://twitter.com/#!/x/status/1499425234511929344



    Article: https://news3lv.com/news/local/congr...a-slot-act-irs


    I've seen these attempts before, and they've all failed, so I won't hold my breath.
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  2. #2
    Infinity to 1 it doesn't happen in our lifetimes.

  3. #3
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    Infinity to 1 it doesn't happen in our lifetimes.
    Exactly, wasn't just a year or so ago they were talking about lowering it $600?
    Keep your friends close, keep your drinks closer...

  4. #4
    Originally Posted by jpfromla View Post
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    Infinity to 1 it doesn't happen in our lifetimes.
    Exactly, wasn't just a year or so ago they were talking about lowering it $600?
    Yep. And with Democrats and their "tax anything" mentality still around, $5000 won't happen any time soon.

  5. #5
    Here's a "big brother" possibility that would obviate / end the need for W2/G forms for machine play: require all players of all machines to use a player's card from the casino; the casino has the player's identifying info including Social Security number.

    As now, the casino will track and retain a record on computer of all of the player's bets so that total money in / money out is accurately tracked.

    At the end of the year each casino sends to both the IRS and the player a summary of the player's yearly action; with this info the IRS and the player can both accurately determine whether a player managed to have a good year and made a profit.
    Last edited by MisterV; 03-05-2022 at 12:55 PM.
    What, Me Worry?

  6. #6
    Meh I am not sure who makes the law, but likely it is the legislature and not the IRS that changes this.

    I am a bit surprised because the tipping involved on all these small jackpots adds a lot to a slot-tech's hourly. That's $$ that a casino may need to make up? On the other hand, they don't need to staff as much.

    When all these people find out they had to pay taxes on a fake win - they're have a really negative view of it. Lose 10k, win 2k, pay taxes on 2k like you won it. lol. Great casino experience. All in all I think it is in the casino's interest.
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  7. #7
    If slot players get W2G's for whatever amount then so should table players and sports book winners for the same amount.

    Whatever the slot threshold may or may not be changed to, tough love to those who don't like it or know how to mitigate their liabilities. It's all part of the casino experience. Pro players should WELCOME AND LOOK FORWARD TO AS MANY SIGNERS AS THEY CAN GET. Others should read up on the tax laws before they sit down to play a denomination that could result in a taxable. But since most slot players aren't the sharpest tools in the shed, we get this chatter every time changing the threshold up or down gets official mention.

  8. #8
    Gold Don Perignom's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MisterV View Post
    At the end of the year each casino sends to both the IRS and the player a summary of the player's yearly action; with this info the IRS and the player can both accurately determine whether a player managed to have a good year and made a profit.
    They may regret opening that Pandora's box. I think comprehensive reporting would push them toward taxation of net wins only -- as indicated typically on a casino win/loss statement. The current arrangement generates tax revenue from many players who never sniff an annual net win.

    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    Pro players should WELCOME AND LOOK FORWARD TO AS MANY SIGNERS AS THEY CAN GET.
    That may be valid federally, but some of the states have weird impositions such as nonrefundable takeouts on jackpots, or disallowance of gambling loss deductions.

    Originally Posted by accountinquestion View Post
    I am a bit surprised because the tipping involved on all these small jackpots adds a lot to a slot-tech's hourly.
    They can still set the handpay threshold to anything they want. I believe many casinos are currently below $1200 on some or all machines.

  9. #9
    Originally Posted by Don Perignom View Post

    They may regret opening that Pandora's box. I think comprehensive reporting would push them toward taxation of net wins only -- as indicated typically on a casino win/loss statement. The current arrangement generates tax revenue from many players who never sniff an annual net win.



    That may be valid federally, but some of the states have weird impositions such as nonrefundable takeouts on jackpots, or disallowance of gambling loss deductions.

    Originally Posted by accountinquestion View Post
    I am a bit surprised because the tipping involved on all these small jackpots adds a lot to a slot-tech's hourly.
    They can still set the handpay threshold to anything they want. I believe many casinos are currently below $1200 on some or all machines.
    Anyone who tips on a hand pay is not a professional and has no business arguing for them. They are weak players in every sense of the word...and most probably weak in every aspect of their lives.

    If a player chooses to play as a "professional" while under the regulations of a suspect state, it's their responsibility to either get a regular job, or to move to a professional gambler-friendly state.

    Please wise up, and show some professional wherewithal.

  10. #10
    Gold Don Perignom's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    Please wise up, and show some professional wherewithal.
    I don't have those aspirations. I'm only a recreational fessional.

    I'm not a cruel enough person to adopt your no tipping policy. What I do is, the instant the attendant finishes counting out the cash, I shake my phone with the other hand and the call simulator app activates my ringtone. A glance at the caller ID, and "Sorry, I have to take this."

    This assures the attendant that I would have tipped if not for the inconvenient timing.

  11. #11
    Originally Posted by MisterV View Post
    Here's a "big brother" possibility that would obviate / end the need for W2/G forms for machine play: require all players of all machines to use a player's card from the casino; the casino has the player's identifying info including Social Security number.

    As now, the casino will track and retain a record on computer of all of the player's bets so that total money in / money out is accurately tracked.

    At the end of the year each casino sends to both the IRS and the player a summary of the player's yearly action; with this info the IRS and the player can both accurately determine whether a player managed to have a good year and made a profit.
    No because the casino can't actually confirm the card holder and slot player were the same person all the time.

  12. #12
    The IRS is well aware that slot cards can easily be manipulated to show less than actual coin-out on a lot of slot games.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  13. #13
    Originally Posted by Don Perignom View Post
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    Please wise up, and show some professional wherewithal.
    I don't have those aspirations. I'm only a recreational fessional.

    I'm not a cruel enough person to adopt your no tipping policy. What I do is, the instant the attendant finishes counting out the cash, I shake my phone with the other hand and the call simulator app activates my ringtone. A glance at the caller ID, and "Sorry, I have to take this."

    This assures the attendant that I would have tipped if not for the inconvenient timing.
    Up until 2000 I too always found myself intimidated into handing over free, unearned money to the floor personnel who hand-paid my jackpots. Then I woke up and realized these people aren't doing anything special or that I asked them to do--they're simply doing their jobs. Nothing different than any store clerk, bank teller, mechanic, etc. does as they perform their duties.

    Those who tip handpays are weak individuals who become nervous when they believe others may not think very highly of them unless they hand over some free cash. When a player receives a handful of cash they are at their most vulnerable, giddy point....and the floor people know this like the backs of their hands. So most just blindly hand it over. All for what? And if you play a lot it adds up. It cuts into some of the tiny edges of AP's.

    Players need to be smart and stay vigilant if they want to continue to survive in their battle with casinos. Casinos have zero feelings for players' financial dispositions, nor should they. It's easy to return the favor.

  14. #14
    Gold Don Perignom's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    The IRS is well aware that slot cards can easily be manipulated to show less than actual coin-out on a lot of slot games.
    I must be missing out. I've seen players pull their card when a bonus round triggers, but afaik the modern tracking systems aren't fooled.

  15. #15
    Originally Posted by Don Perignom View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    The IRS is well aware that slot cards can easily be manipulated to show less than actual coin-out on a lot of slot games.
    I must be missing out. I've seen players pull their card when a bonus round triggers, but afaik the modern tracking systems aren't fooled.
    I remember a Poster named Krava on WOV basked something like,"If I pull out my Player's Club Card when a Bonus hits, can I circumvent getting a W-2G Form if the Bonus hits more than $1200? The reply was something like,"The Casino can tell if a Player's Club Card has been pulled before a Bonus. Zcore who works for a Casino said something similar.
    https://photos.app.goo.gl/Zk2WAFzDcrJ7pjNB7

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  16. #16
    Gold Don Perignom's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Tasha View Post
    Zcore who works for a Casino said something similar.
    Thanks. I can tolerate the W2-Gs, but if I could conceal some of my smaller wins, I think I'd be more popular with the casino.

    Some slots are structured so you know the win is coming. If my $500 must-hit machine runs up to 499, I'll play the remaining spins uncarded because I know the payoff is imminent. But that doesn't come up very often.

  17. #17
    Originally Posted by Don Perignom View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    The IRS is well aware that slot cards can easily be manipulated to show less than actual coin-out on a lot of slot games.
    I must be missing out. I've seen players pull their card when a bonus round triggers, but afaik the modern tracking systems aren't fooled.
    Correct. They need to be pulled before you spin and hit the bonuses. Example would be having a 99 green on Regal Riches and you're down a significant amount. Take the card out and play unrated until you hit and leave. Some players even resort to cashing out and reloading with different money.
    Last edited by jbjb; 03-07-2022 at 11:41 AM.

  18. #18
    Gold Don Perignom's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    Example would be having a 99 green on Regal Riches
    Oh yes, because the feature auto-triggers at 100.

    Another possible example, the Scarab-type games with 10-spin cycles. And I'm sure there are others I don't know about. But in the big picture of total slot volume, this is a tiny loophole. It's not obvious to me that the IRS would be conscious of it.

  19. #19
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    Originally Posted by Don Perignom View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    The IRS is well aware that slot cards can easily be manipulated to show less than actual coin-out on a lot of slot games.
    I must be missing out. I've seen players pull their card when a bonus round triggers, but afaik the modern tracking systems aren't fooled.
    Correct. They need to be pulled before you spin and hit the bonuses. Example would be having a 99 green on Regal Riches and you're down a significant amount. Take the card out and play unrated until you hit and leave. Some players even resort to cashing out and reloading with different money.
    Some places say "carded session" until you cashout. One can only assume what is required...
    It is official. Redietz will never be on Dan Druff's podcast. "too much integrity"

  20. #20
    Originally Posted by Don Perignom View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    The IRS is well aware that slot cards can easily be manipulated to show less than actual coin-out on a lot of slot games.
    I must be missing out. I've seen players pull their card when a bonus round triggers, but afaik the modern tracking systems aren't fooled.
    You play a Regal where the green is on 87. The game has a big drop. You are racing against the drop to get to 100 wilds with the 10 free games. The cost is generally about 8 units per green wild. So you are looking at being behind by about 104 units when you get it up to 100. The average pay on the 100 greens is about 140 units.

    In most casinos when you get to the bonus round your card is locked into recording that round even if you pull it. But if you pull the card when the total is 98 the card is not locked in once you go to the next spin. At that point you are usually stuck about 90 units. So you show a loss on the card.

    You finish popping the last two wilds in without the card in the machine. You showed about a 90 unit loss but you actually won about 50 units.

    You can use these type games to offset the recorded win on games you can't pull the card on.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

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