Dealer Angels BJ

[kewlJ]

I think I can talk about this without anyone getting up in arms. It has been years since this was really a legitimate play.

So back in the day, which for me was only 10 years ago or so, the first versions of the Dealer Angel 5-seat BJ set up were very countable. It quickly became commonly known that the shuffle was at dealer change. Back in the day, I was playing half dozen or so of these machines around vegas. Slots of Fun (circus cicrus), the old Imperial Palace before it became The Link, downtown @ El Cortez and The Plaza, Terribles casino (now Silver7) and somewhere else on the lower strip. was it MGM? (that one didn't last long)

Anyway, most of these places had a minimum bet of $2 or $3 dollars and maximum of $100. A couple had max bet of $200. This made for an EV of bewteen $75 and $150 per 100 hands depending on which max bet the machine had. This wasn't a big thing for me, but I would try to hit these once a week for a session when in the area. Lots of people knew about it as I would see the same people at El Co, Slots of Fun, Lucky Club. Oh yeah, add Lucky Club in N. Vegas to the list.

So anyway with the updated models this sort of went away. The shuffle could be programmed anywhere. I suppose guys smarter than me could still figure out things that would give an advantage, but I was mostly done with this play when the newer versions or models came out. Which by the way were less realistic as far as dealer graphics if you are into that sort of thing.

So 3 months ago, while looking for something else, I stumbled upon one of these older, early version set-ups. It was a small location on the outskirts of Vegas, miles from strip or downtown. The casino didn't even have table games except for this electronic set up. So I have been hitting it 3-4 times a week for 90 minutes to 2 hours or so. And have done pretty well. Problem is I never or rarely saw anyone else playing. So I figured even trying to slow milk it as I was, it wouldn't be long before someone noticed a change in the numbers the machine was bringing in.

That happened today as they were actually in the process of removing the game when I arrived. I am trying to think if I could have milked in any slower extending the play, but really don't think I could have. What if I played 4 hours a week instead of 8ish. Maybe it last twice as long, but still the same money. Because this was such a small place and the real problem, there wasn't a lot of play (at least that I saw) I don't think anything I did would have extended it much. Anyway, it was fun while it lasted and brough back a little bit of the not so long ago, past for me. Plus I made a little money.

[kewlJ]

One thing I will add. Playing this machine is exactly like card counting. Well it IS card counting, just an electronic table rather than live dealer. But both on this 80 hour run (which is short term) and thinking back to earlier years (which could involve selective memory), I just have never experienced much variance on these machines. Just seemed to win fairly close to EV or expectation.

In my regular BJ play with live dealers I do things that invite or increase variance as the cost to something else I am trying to achieve. Things like using multiple bet spreads, ramps and max bets, as well as any king of cover plays like spreading both ways. These things increase or invite larger variance. So maybe because I didn't have to do any of that with these electronic machines and could just straight up count with impunity, is why the variance was less than I sometimes experience. Or maybe I was just lucky with less variance. Who knows? But it was fun while it lasted.

[mickeycrimm]

Deadwood Mountain Grand still has Dealer Angels. Max $100 bet. I worked it with some major same day cashback a few years ago. Then they squashed the card benefits.

Tony Bigcharles worked the DA's everywhere across the country until they were taken out. I used to tell him when I spotted them. The only one he couldn't get to was at Dancing Eagle Casino at Paraje, New Mexico on I-40 in the middle of nowhere.

[kewlJ]

Tony Bigcharles worked the DA's everywhere across the country until they were taken out. I used to tell him when I spotted them. The only one he couldn't get to was at Dancing Eagle Casino at Paraje, New Mexico on I-40 in the middle of nowhere.

Yeah, I know he did. He was camped out at Lucky Club up in North Las Vegas for weeks, maybe a month back in the day. I don't really know him, only of him. I don't know if I would want to be holed up at a place like Lucky Club in N Las Vegas for a month though.

[Don Perignom]

I just have never experienced much variance on these machines.

Is the penetration comparable to a live game? I would have expected worse pen at the e-tables.

Tony Bigcharles worked the DA's everywhere across the country until they were taken out.

From what I've seen of his blog posts, he may not adhere rigorously to card counting fundamentals.

[mickeycrimm]

I just have never experienced much variance on these machines.

Is the penetration comparable to a live game? I would have expected worse pen at the e-tables.

Tony Bigcharles worked the DA's everywhere across the country until they were taken out.

From what I've seen of his blog posts, he may not adhere rigorously to card counting fundamentals.

Tony is a card counter but I don't know how good he is. Trouble is, he plays the uncountable games to. The Dealer Angels are 4 decks with 80 cards dealt before shuffling.

[kewlJ]

Yeah the penetration sucks, but you can go straight to maxbet at ANY +EV count, which would be a little better that tc +1. (Maybe +1.5 to be safe).

That SHOULD increase variance but like I said earlier, I personally haven't experienced that. Maybe still too small of a sample size.

[Don Perignom]

That SHOULD increase variance but like I said earlier, I personally haven't experienced that.

Yeah, maybe you were due for some variance, but I guess we'll never know.

Deadwood Mountain Grand still has Dealer Angels. Max $100 bet. I worked it with some major same day cashback a few years ago. Then they squashed the card benefits.

Nevada casinos are majorly paranoid about e-table card benefits. Some places, everything is restricted including the 00 roulette units. I wonder if they give any thought to their policies. I know some managers hate opposites bettors, but if the house edge is 5%, maybe you can still afford to give points regardless.

[mickeycrimm]

Over the years card benefits got cut to nothing on the BJ consoles and ecraps games all around the country. Freeplay got disallowed on them too.

There was a lot of things one could do. Take the ecraps with 3X odds, a .4% house house edge. You bet both sides and give up the .4% but are getting 1% cashback. It's no variance/rake in the cash. That sort of thing.

I tried to get Tony to sign up here and talk about the Blackjack consoles. He said KJ got some things wrong. I didn't question him on it. But he said KJ was talking about Hoover Dam Lodge, a place Tony got 86'd out of. I don't know if it was related to the BJ game or not. But Tony said the console at Hoover Dam Lodge had a $2500 max bet.

He said the Lucky Club wasn't Dealer Angel, but a Shufflemaster that dealt 4 out of 6 decks but didn't show the shuffle point. Tony once said something about using red 7's on these machines.

He said he worked the Lucky Club because he was getting 2% cashback.

He also mentioned playing the game at Riviera, El Cortez and Ellis Island.

[jbjb]

Tony will forever be living on the same bankroll amount. No future I'd want.

[Ozzy]

BigChucky should be nicknamed 50k for life.

[kewlJ]

I tried to get Tony to sign up here and talk about the Blackjack consoles. He said KJ got some things wrong. I didn't question him on it. But he said KJ was talking about Hoover Dam Lodge, a place Tony got 86'd out of. I don't know if it was related to the BJ game or not. But Tony said the console at Hoover Dam Lodge had a $2500 max bet.

He said the Lucky Club wasn't Dealer Angel, but a Shufflemaster that dealt 4 out of 6 decks but didn't show the shuffle point. Tony once said something about using red 7's on these machines.

He said he worked the Lucky Club because he was getting 2% cashback.

He also mentioned playing the game at Riviera, El Cortez and Ellis Island.

No, it wasn't Hoover Dam Lodge that I was playing. Four trip out there a week would have eaten up half my profits in gas at current prices.

How is Tony doing? Wasn't there a report of a health problem recently that may have been false or mistaken identity or something? (I didn't follow that closely).

It would have been fun to have him post here and share some of his experiences. But I suspect it wouldn't have been long before the trolls jumped on him.

I don't remember Dealer Angels consoles at Ellis Island and the specific time I am speaking of just a couple years after I moved to Vegas, I was living in a condo at the Platinum bout 100 yards away from Ellis Island and stopped in there regularly. Maybe it was gone by that point.

[kewlJ]

Tony will forever be living on the same bankroll amount. No future I'd want.

BigChucky should be nicknamed 50k for life.

While his "existence" wouldn't appeal to me either or most AP's, at least for more than a couple weeks, if it appealed to him, and it obviously did, it is a fascinating tale of a journey and existence from an grind it out AP standpoint.

[jbjb]

He's grinding nothing but a stalemate and getting nowhere fast.

[kewlJ]

He's grinding nothing but a stalemate and getting nowhere fast.

I understand that from YOUR viewpoint.

But he doesn't seem to have gone through his bankroll in all these years and there are one hell of a lot of people in this world that their existence is making enough to barely keep a roof over their head and a little chow in their stomach, sort of on a day to day basis.

[kewlJ]

A lot of low limit poker players in this town live like that, including the guy I took in for a number of years. And for you pervs, No there was no sex involved. for

I met a dude in his mid 20's about same age as me, shortly after I moved to Vegas, over in the little sportsbook cafe or food outlet at Rio. His story was that he played poker for a living. He earned free rooms at the lower ceasar's properties, like Imperial Palace, Harrahs', Flamingo on weekdays and slept in his car on Friday and Saturday nights. Very occasionally when he had a good run, he would stay in one of those Siegle suites places for a week.

Eventually I told him he could crash at my place on weekends so he didn't have to sleep in his car. It took me 7 years and before I finally got rid of him. During that time, he was always building his BR and always had just experienced a bad beat that set him back. He did everything from working at the fright dome thing at Circus Circus, to the Gondola boats at Venicia to one summer selling bottled water on the strip 8 hours a day to keep fueling his bankroll.

All the while, he told people he played poker for a living. And he did play poker most days, but....

I still find these stories of living on the fringe of Vegas and gambling interesting. Wouldn't want it, but I find it interesting, what people will do.

[Don Perignom]

No, it wasn't Hoover Dam Lodge that I was playing.

Hoover Dam Lodge is the former Hacienda. It's basically a big Dotty's. As I understand, Nevada has a 15 machine limit on its restricted license category. Usually the establishments were bars, but then Dotty's came along and set up fake plants to attract women. Another similar property is Laughlin River Lodge, which removed most of its e-table units iirc.

The 15-machine places are too small to have multi-seater e-tables, but anywhere with about 50+ is possible, and there are a lot of them. Vegas for example has a chain of Wildfire casinos owned by Stations/Red Rock.

[jbjb]

He's grinding nothing but a stalemate and getting nowhere fast.

I understand that from YOUR viewpoint.

But he doesn't seem to have gone through his bankroll in all these years and there are one hell of a lot of people in this world that their existence is making enough to barely keep a roof over their head and a little chow in their stomach, sort of on a day to day basis.

He doesn't even have his own roof. He uses rip offs like AB&B. As Rob would say, the guy needs to "wise up".

[kewlJ]

He doesn't even have his own roof.

He has his roof for THAT night or the next couple nights. That is the lifestyle he chose. If it appeals to him, what is so terrible. Nobody says you have to do it.

When I moved to Vegas in late 2009 after wearing out my welcome in Atlantic City, I explored several options, one being traveling around the midwest for a couple years playing the Indian Casinos, one being establishing a home base, but traveling around the rest of the U.S. and even world playing blackjack, living out of a suitcase. What was left of the blackjack only AP's, mostly traveled extensively playing.

I wanted no part of that travel / living out of hotels and casinos kind of life. Just spending 2-3 nights in casino hotels in AC for my final couple years was enough for me. That gets old very fast. I wanted a nice home, that I return to most nights and the only place I could do that was Vegas.

So I can look at these nomad traveling "AP's' living off the casinos at even the lowest end and find it fascinating, but like you, I would want no part of it.

[Ozzy]

I can completely relate to the nomadic AP lifestyle. I went more then a decade without paying a mortgage and ended up banking a decent sum over the years. Far from wealthy, but a solid amount to live well for the next 40-45 years. I really enjoy travelling so for me it came naturally. I've never been a domestic stay in one area guy.