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Thread: Objective proof?

  1. #1
    KJ, it seems to me that you catch a lot of flak from people who claim not to believe your claims; it is the lack of objective proof the helps fuel the controversy.

    So then, maybe it's time for some objective proof?

    I understand your need to protect your actual identity from mean-spirited detractors.

    One method of objectively proving your claims initially come to mind, and it would involve using a trusted third party, if such an individual can be found and agreed upon: I nominate prominant LV attorney Robert Nersesian as he can keep a secret and he already knows you.

    You would show him all your tax returns and supporting documentation for the past seven to ten years; you claim to be a pro and IIRC you have filed tax returns for your BJ play, so if as you claim you've won every year and have had no other jobs / sources of income then this will be evident on your returns.

    You'd need to show him any correspondence from the IRS in order to help negate claims that you fabricated the returns: Mr. Nersesian should be able to sniff out a fraud were your to try to forge IRS letters, they're unique in style.

    Once he's reviewed it he could either post his findings and conclusions directly online if he chooses to open an account or (more likely) he'd write a letter to you and to whom it may concern on his letterhead summarizing his findings and conclusions and then you'd post the letter here.

    Not saying you need to do this but it would be quick, easy, and fairly definitive.

    Your thoughts?


    (I first posted this at GF but felt it deserved wider discussion)
    Last edited by MisterV; 04-10-2022 at 11:26 AM.
    What, Me Worry?

  2. #2
    I have to nominate this thread for dumbest of the month.

    If someone did something like that I would question that. I don't know any pro gamblers that pay taxes on all their income. Why would they? Especially a card counter that doesn't even receive w2-g's.
    FraudJ's word is worth less than the prop cash in Singer's safe...RIP

  3. #3
    Ah, I hadn't considered your felonious nature, i.e. not to report income as the law requires.

    So I guess you are claiming that ALL AP's, including KJ, are lying tax cheats such as yourself, eh?

    BTW, if you're an AP and do not report your gambling profits (and if you report no other source of income) the IRS will nail your lying ass to the cross if audited, like they did to Al Capone; hello, forensic accounting.

    Oh well ...so much for Diogenes holding out his lantern, searching for an honest man...I guess I shoulda read the room first.
    What, Me Worry?

  4. #4
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    I have to nominate this thread for dumbest of the month.

    If someone did something like that I would question that. I don't know any pro gamblers that pay taxes on all their income. Why would they? Especially a card counter that doesn't even receive w2-g's.

    How about the flip side?

    Another basic, fundamental problem with this is that somebody looking to pose as a professional blackjack player who has some foresight, would simply claim winnings that didn't happen. Why not? Trade off paying income taxes that don't need to be paid for a professional reputation. Now if this seems silly and irrational, ask yourself. If MDawg had some foresight, would he have done it and then afterwards made his splash on various forums?

    I don't get W2Gs, either. I could do it for sports or blackjack or poker, for that matter.

  5. #5
    Originally Posted by MisterV View Post
    Ah, I hadn't considered your felonious nature, i.e. not to report income as the law requires.

    So I guess you are claiming that ALL AP's, including KJ, are lying tax cheats such as yourself, eh?

    BTW, if you're an AP and do not report your gambling profits (and if you report no other source of income) the IRS will nail your lying ass to the cross if audited, like they did to Al Capone; hello, forensic accounting.

    Oh well ...so much for Diogenes holding out his lantern, searching for an honest man...I guess I shoulda read the room first.
    You're barking up the wrong tree. I am pretty sure over 90% of the population doesn't pay all their taxes. Even the president is under suspicion as all of his property holdings add up to way more than the income he has shown.
    FraudJ's word is worth less than the prop cash in Singer's safe...RIP

  6. #6
    That leads to another wrinkle. If you win money in one category of gambling, you could claim it was won in another. So winning money sports gambling could be claimed legitimately as gambling winnings, while being illegitimately promoted as having been won by being a baccarat phenom.

  7. #7
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    I have to nominate this thread for dumbest of the month.

    If someone did something like that I would question that. I don't know any pro gamblers that pay taxes on all their income. Why would they? Especially a card counter that doesn't even receive w2-g's.

    How about the flip side?

    Another basic, fundamental problem with this is that somebody looking to pose as a professional blackjack player who has some foresight, would simply claim winnings that didn't happen. Why not? Trade off paying income taxes that don't need to be paid for a professional reputation. Now if this seems silly and irrational, ask yourself. If MDawg had some foresight, would he have done it and then afterwards made his splash on various forums?

    I don't get W2Gs, either. I could do it for sports or blackjack or poker, for that matter.
    I guess they could but I don't know anyone that voluntarily would pay more under any circumstances.

    Personally I pay all required taxes. But when in doubt I always rule in my favor as to whether or not those questionable dollars in the gray area may be relevant or not. Just like everyone else.

    If a blackjack player has 50k a year in verifiable expenses (money that flows thru checking account to pay bills) then it would be advisable to claim that income. But if he has a 100k income who's going to know if it never hits an auditable account? How many people in that situation are going to pay taxes to some corrupt government on that excess 50k, just so it can be redistributed to some transgender freak to pay their rent? I literally know no one that would. But I know a bunch that claim they do...lol

    This is why governments want to get rid of cash and go to a Blockchain system that they oversee.
    Last edited by MaxPen; 04-10-2022 at 12:50 PM.
    FraudJ's word is worth less than the prop cash in Singer's safe...RIP

  8. #8
    In my post I mentioned that it was my belief that KJ said he did file taxes; if so, then "game on."

    Otherwise, "no soap radio" and his claims would continue to be suspect, absent objective proof.
    What, Me Worry?

  9. #9
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    I have to nominate this thread for dumbest of the month.

    If someone did something like that I would question that. I don't know any pro gamblers that pay taxes on all their income. Why would they? Especially a card counter that doesn't even receive w2-g's.

    How about the flip side?

    Another basic, fundamental problem with this is that somebody looking to pose as a professional blackjack player who has some foresight, would simply claim winnings that didn't happen. Why not? Trade off paying income taxes that don't need to be paid for a professional reputation. Now if this seems silly and irrational, ask yourself. If MDawg had some foresight, would he have done it and then afterwards made his splash on various forums?

    I don't get W2Gs, either. I could do it for sports or blackjack or poker, for that matter.
    I guess they could but I don't know anyone that voluntarily would pay more under any circumstances.

    Personally I pay all required taxes. But when in doubt I always rule in my favor as to whether or not those questionable dollars in the gray area may be relevant or not. Just like everyone else.

    If a blackjack player has 50k a year in verifiable expenses (money that flows thru checking account to pay bills) then it would be advisable to claim that income. But if he has a 100k income who's going to know if it never hits an auditable account? How many people in that situation are going to pay taxes to some corrupt government on that excess 50k, just so it can be redistributed to some transgender freak to pay their rent? I literally know no one that would. But I know a bunch that claim they do...lol

    This is why governments want to get rid of cash and go to a Blockchain system that they oversee.

    Give his family's money, I suspect MDawg would be more than happy to donate 20K or 30K to have an IRS certified record of his "gambling winnings."

    There are all kinds of other angles, too. For example, it's not uncommon for horse players who nail a big score to recruit other people in lower tax brackets to claim the winnings. Suddenly Joe Citizen is a certified expert winning gambler.

  10. #10
    For horses, there were a couple of moves. In a state like Illinois, where you are taxed on the gross (unless filing as a pro), the guy cashing the ticket would have to charge the winner an amount equal to the Illinois tax plus a fee for the overall transaction. If the guy cashing it was a pro, he could also get the tax taht had been withheld returned after he filed a return.
    Usually, rather than being a pro, he just had fake ID and didn't get a refund. if there was a W-2G and withholding, it was better to have a pro cash it.

    That all being said, I had one guy that I defended that was charged with tax fraud for cashing someone else's tickets.

  11. #11
    Originally Posted by regnis View Post
    For horses, there were a couple of moves. In a state like Illinois, where you are taxed on the gross (unless filing as a pro), the guy cashing the ticket would have to charge the winner an amount equal to the Illinois tax plus a fee for the overall transaction. If the guy cashing it was a pro, he could also get the tax taht had been withheld returned after he filed a return.
    Usually, rather than being a pro, he just had fake ID and didn't get a refund. if there was a W-2G and withholding, it was better to have a pro cash it.

    That all being said, I had one guy that I defended that was charged with tax fraud for cashing someone else's tickets.
    That sounds interesting. What happened and how did he get charged in the first place?

  12. #12
    Just tell it the way it really is: if any non-professional gambler who never gets a signer wins $100k net, they are not gonna report any of it as income. If it's a machine player who accumulates W2G's and they've really won net $100k, then they will always claim gambling losses equal to $100k on schedule A, and the smartest one create a trackable comprehensive gambling log that ties into it. The difference is, the machine player may have to pay the piper because of their higher AGI....or not, depending how smart they are.

    For a true professional gambler who plays table games and never sees a signer, only a doofus would report real net profit numbers. Similarly, pro machine players who collect tax forms fairly regularly will ALWAYS directly write off as many gambling related expenses as humanly possible, keeping net income to as low a level as possible inorder to meet the IRS requirements for filing as a pro gambler.

    The most important aspect of all this is not any casino won/loss statements -- auditors know this is only a function of if and when you used a player's card, which they also know is not a requirement. The only "word of God" is the gambler's personal comprehensive gambling log.
    While I of course have always and only very accurately filled in my yearly logs with the utmost honesty I'm aware that most don't.

  13. #13
    So then Rob, if in fact KJ filed returns and reported income as claimed, and you had verification from Nersesian, would that satisfy your concern that he made it all up about his winnings?

    Follow up question, for KJ: have you in fact filed income tax returns reflecting the earnings / winnings you've previously claimed to have received?
    What, Me Worry?

  14. #14
    MrV, can I ask why you would think I would ever have any interest in this? How many times have you advised me to stop feeding the trolls. And then you propose this?

    First, I have always said no one is required to prove anything on these forums. No one is on trial. And that includes people like Singer and Mdog that I don't believe their claims. Requiring players/member to prove anything only serves to make it much less likely that any legitimate players will participate. We have already had way too many disappear. I don't want to give the trolls any more power.

    Look there are claims made on gambling forums. People can believe or not believe whatever they choose. Personally for me, it all starts with the math. If a player or person claims whatever winnings at gambling, over the long run, overcoming the house advantage, they should be able to tell you what they are doing to overcome that house advantage....what they are doing to play with an advantage that makes their claims even possible. That is the very lowest of bars.

    I mean if a person is coming up with "special plays" or machines teleporting information, or in the case of this Mdog betting into streaks, That is just recycled, many times disproven voodoo gambling nonsense.

    Very much related to this is something I have said many times now. "It just doesn't take that much to figure out who knows what they are talking about and who is just talking". With advantage play a player needs to figure some things out on their own. Well same with the forums. I think I have gone way beyond in proving I know what I am talking about as to what I do. Way beyond! I know some of the detractors say I recite things from books. Well, yeah, I did read a lot of books early on. And have been privileged to read and interact with many successful players on forums and privately as well.

    But I have gone into pretty good detail about what I do and how I do it, probably way more than I ever should have. To these detractors, I say, show me any blackjack book that talks about tracking multiple tables, spreading both ways, meaning starting with a medium wager, rather than the small minimum wager and literally spreading both way (which makes your spread smaller unless someone sees both parts). Very little mention of chip inventory in any book and how that works and what advantages it gives a player. Card counter basic strategy is another real important part of my play that allows me to avoid detection. You don't see that mentioned many places.

    So I have gone way beyond explaining what I do and how I do it, in great detail. Anybody that has decided I don't know what I am talking about is someone not very smart or objective. So No, MrV, I will pass at putting myself on trial to prove anything to the likes of 20 year troll, Rob Singer or any of the other trolls or haters. But thanks for thinking of me.

  15. #15
    Before Rob even responds with the stupid thing he is about to about me not being willing to prove anything.

    Players do NOT have to prove they win. They have to prove they are doing something (mathematically) that can allow or enable them to win. And machines talking to you, telling you when they are hot or cold is not such a REAL thing.

    Now I am in the middle of a few fairly busy days. I am not going to be able to go back and forth with this right now. I will try to respond to anything further in a couple days.

  16. #16
    Hey look ma, there goes V stirring (and probably smoking) the pot again.

  17. #17
    Originally Posted by mcap View Post
    Hey look ma, there goes V stirring (and probably smoking) the pot again.
    *sigh*

    I tried to find a way to end the endless bickering: epic fail.

    It looks like trying get objective proof from an AP about his claims is about as possible as getting objective proof that Jesus was the son of god, born to a virgin mother.
    What, Me Worry?

  18. #18
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    Originally Posted by regnis View Post
    For horses, there were a couple of moves. In a state like Illinois, where you are taxed on the gross (unless filing as a pro), the guy cashing the ticket would have to charge the winner an amount equal to the Illinois tax plus a fee for the overall transaction. If the guy cashing it was a pro, he could also get the tax taht had been withheld returned after he filed a return.
    Usually, rather than being a pro, he just had fake ID and didn't get a refund. if there was a W-2G and withholding, it was better to have a pro cash it.

    That all being said, I had one guy that I defended that was charged with tax fraud for cashing someone else's tickets.
    That sounds interesting. What happened and how did he get charged in the first place?
    The way I understand it, there were a few guys that you could go to. But they had to have a bit of discretion. You didn’t want everyone to know what you were doing. My guy had a big mouth. I used to constantly warn him to tone it down a little. People have a bad loss or are jealous and make a phone call.
    At the same time, some of the old time tellers who had been doing it for years got in trouble. So I don’t know how my guy got caught but I think it was a phone call.
    My main argument in defense was that there was no tax fraud because there was no tax due. We showed enough losses to negate any taxes. He got slapped with a small Illinois tax and penalty. Biggest win of his life!!!

  19. #19
    Originally Posted by regnis View Post
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    Originally Posted by regnis View Post
    For horses, there were a couple of moves. In a state like Illinois, where you are taxed on the gross (unless filing as a pro), the guy cashing the ticket would have to charge the winner an amount equal to the Illinois tax plus a fee for the overall transaction. If the guy cashing it was a pro, he could also get the tax taht had been withheld returned after he filed a return.
    Usually, rather than being a pro, he just had fake ID and didn't get a refund. if there was a W-2G and withholding, it was better to have a pro cash it.

    That all being said, I had one guy that I defended that was charged with tax fraud for cashing someone else's tickets.
    That sounds interesting. What happened and how did he get charged in the first place?
    The way I understand it, there were a few guys that you could go to. But they had to have a bit of discretion. You didn’t want everyone to know what you were doing. My guy had a big mouth. I used to constantly warn him to tone it down a little. People have a bad loss or are jealous and make a phone call.
    At the same time, some of the old time tellers who had been doing it for years got in trouble. So I don’t know how my guy got caught but I think it was a phone call.
    My main argument in defense was that there was no tax fraud because there was no tax due. We showed enough losses to negate any taxes. He got slapped with a small Illinois tax and penalty. Biggest win of his life!!!

    Well done, regnis. I hope he learned his lesson.

  20. #20
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Before Rob even responds with the stupid thing he is about to about me not being willing to prove anything.

    Players do NOT have to prove they win. They have to prove they are doing something (mathematically) that can allow or enable them to win. And machines talking to you, telling you when they are hot or cold is not such a REAL thing.

    Now I am in the middle of a few fairly busy days. I am not going to be able to go back and forth with this right now. I will try to respond to anything further in a couple days.
    And you have never proved even that. Anyone can post how they supposedly "count cards" at a tiny advantage. But that anonymous person must also at the very least be able to prove they actually do it. They also have to be able to radiate a certain level of intelligence, discipline, and honesty while garnering a decent amount of respect. Judging from your constant and continual erratic and foolish behavior on so many different forums, as well as your propensity to argue with anyone who comes along and suggests the smallest doubt as to the veracity of your claims, you sir do not come close to passing the sniff test.

    Not to beleaguer the point, but your constant lying about me claiming telepathic connections with machines along with the "hot & cold cycles".....the more intelligent among us have already understood I used that nonsense as a diversion in order to help keep what I was really doing, covert.

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