Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: The First Counters

  1. #1
    I ran across this story about Edward Thorp and some associates in Las Vegas in 1962 to test his blackjack theory. A real eye opener about the rampant cheating at blackjack by the houses in the sixties.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...YE-465jxq9RGU3
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  2. #2
    Well, that explains it, Zenking is in a time machine.
    Keep your friends close, keep your drinks closer...

  3. #3
    Thanks mickey for that interesting read.

    A couple take-aways. The first 7 methods of cheating listed were all dealer sleight of hand type moves, because at the time it was all dealer held games. So that makes sense. The 8th was a shorting the shoe of multideck games in the 70's. we will get to this in a minute.

    So with the handheld games and all these dealers using sleight of hand cheating methods, is there anyone that thinks the casinos weren't part of that? Today we talk about this as in rouge dealers and maybe the casino is completely unknowing. Is there anyone that really thinks the casinos didn't hire (and probably train) these dealers back at that time? The reason I ask is because it goes to the idea that the casino industry has always cheated. The natural advantage they had was never enough for them. AND there was no one to stop them. Nevada Gaming Commision? Give me a break. Besides that they are undermanned and overmatched, they intentionally always looked the other way (were likely in cahoots). I will argue none of that has changed in 2022.

    So we fast forward to present and now we are into mostly shoe deal games and shuffle machines. Technological advancements. Based on the long history of this industry cheating, every chance they got, why would anybody think things have changed? Those of you that just dismiss the possibility of the casino industry or individual casinos cheating with any of the machines that shuffle and deal any of the various table games, I would like to know just what you base that on? And the Nevada Gaming commission is in no better position, nor has the desire to police anything any more than they did in the time of the article.

    Players need to be vigilant of these things. I am not saying every casino is cheating, nor every shuffle machine or machine that deals any game is crooked, just as not every hand held game (those that remain) is a dealer employing slight of hand. But as players, whether playing with an advantage or recreational, I would always be looking for something that doesn't seem right.

  4. #4
    Nevada Gaming Commision. Again what a joke. The only time in my time of following these things, which has been the last 15-20 years, the only time I have seen NGC act on anything was Mindplay. And that took a well organized effort and presentation that basically forced their hand. And the end result, if I remember correctly, no fines or disciplinary action to what was obvious cheating by the industry. Only a "you can't do that" (in real time).

  5. #5
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Nevada Gaming Commision. Again what a joke. The only time in my time of following these things, which has been the last 15-20 years, the only time I have seen NGC act on anything was Mindplay. And that took a well organized effort and presentation that basically forced their hand. And the end result, if I remember correctly, no fines or disciplinary action to what was obvious cheating by the industry. Only a "you can't do that" (in real time).
    Now is a good time to mention that Las Vegas is the magic capital of the world. Sleight of hand with mechanics is as old as the hills. The entire NGC as a review organization is kind of silly. The ACG did a story maybe 15 years ago, interviewing an NCG investigator, where it was clear the NGC was so slow in its alleged unannounced spot checking of machine chips that it was routinely running a year or more behind schedule. If the schedule was at all leaked (as if that can't happen), the entire process is worthless.

  6. #6
    Do the casinos cheat more on holiday weekends?
    FraudJ's word is worth less than the prop cash in Singer's safe...RIP

  7. #7
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Do the casinos cheat more on holiday weekends?
    If they do, then this wasn't any kind of holiday weekend.

    I am sure you take anything the GOAT card counter says with a grain of salt. Didn't he once talk about how he was trying to get back-roomed and roughed up by a casino so he could file a lawsuit, looking for a big payday?

    This guy seems to be searching for all the wrong things. Every time he loses he claims he was cheated. He has no concept of variance involved and that players sometimes lose. And it is not enough that he runs around Vegas, specifically playing any place that might be sketchy but then he takes to the Indian casinos of California, where the possibility is even greater. Why is he searching out casinos that might be cheating him? It is like everything he does as far as card counting is ass backwards.

  8. #8
    In Vegas of the sixties I don't think the mob had any problem with cheating the sucker gamblers.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  9. #9
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Do the casinos cheat more on holiday weekends?
    You sure the fuck wouldn't know. You were still in the 3rd grade when you got your driver's license. Dumb as fuck. And a 9 inch cocksucking stepanfetchit poser pro.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Do the casinos cheat more on holiday weekends?
    You sure the fuck wouldn't know. You were still in the 3rd grade when you got your driver's license. Dumb as fuck. And a 9 inch cocksucking stepanfetchit poser pro.
    Still waiting for you to collect on that 10k bounty for identifying this supposed slot team I stepandfetchit for. That's like a whole free month of work for your two bit self.

    But I won't hold my breath.
    FraudJ's word is worth less than the prop cash in Singer's safe...RIP

  11. #11
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Do the casinos cheat more on holiday weekends?
    You sure the fuck wouldn't know. You were still in the 3rd grade when you got your driver's license. Dumb as fuck. And a 9 inch cocksucking stepanfetchit poser pro.
    Still waiting for you to collect on that 10k bounty for identifying this supposed slot team I stepandfetchit for. That's like a whole free month of work for your two bit self.

    But I won't hold my breath.
    Quit hiding behind a phony screen name. Give me your real name and I'm sure I'll find a slot cheat. Whatever you are doing isn't legal.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •