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Thread: When Weakness Prevails, Show Them The Meaning of Strength

  1. #2521
    Originally Posted by Garnabby View Post

    ---> The Earth Girls Are Easy (The O.C. episode)

    https://anagram-solver.net/I%20assum...0?partial=true
    Shouldn't quote but did it anyway.

    I should note that I was going to skip Avalanche Express but when I ran the preview on AppleTV my uncle got all excited and wanted to watch it.
    I read that its a pretty bad movie so instead of buying it for $9.99 I just rented it at $2.99.
    Either way I lose but I'll still watch it.
    I have 48 hours starting now.

  2. #2522
    The things being discussed is way above my pay grade. Much of it seems way over the line of legal advantage play into cheating and stealing to me. "Stealing" might be a hard case to win since technically there is no value to free play and that is what is being "stolen".

    Whatever anyone's comfort level is in doing this stuff, is it really something that should be being discussed on public, open forum?

    BTW, congrats monet. You always wanted all the shady and illegal things being done by AP's to be discussed and acknowledged.
    Rob Singer / Robert Argentino: Failed Advantage Player, lifelong degenerate losing gambler and now failed gambling forums troll.

  3. #2523
    Originally Posted by monet View Post
    Robert Shaw should stay off of trains...





    And fishing boats...

    Keep your friends close, keep your drinks closer...

  4. #2524
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    The things being discussed is way above my pay grade. Much of it seems way over the line of legal advantage play into cheating and stealing to me. "Stealing" might be a hard case to win since technically there is no value to free play and that is what is being "stolen".

    Whatever anyone's comfort level is in doing this stuff, is it really something that should be being discussed on public, open forum?

    BTW, congrats monet. You always wanted all the shady and illegal things being done by AP's to be discussed and acknowledged.
    NRS 465.085 Unlawful manufacture, sale, distribution, marking, altering or modification of equipment and devices associated with gaming; unlawful instruction. 1.
    Keep your friends close, keep your drinks closer...

  5. #2525
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    The things being discussed is way above my pay grade. Much of it seems way over the line of legal advantage play into cheating and stealing to me. "Stealing" might be a hard case to win since technically there is no value to free play and that is what is being "stolen".

    Whatever anyone's comfort level is in doing this stuff, is it really something that should be being discussed on public, open forum?

    BTW, congrats monet. You always wanted all the shady and illegal things being done by AP's to be discussed and acknowledged.
    That is because I live in the real world where it's all about Lie, Cheat and Steal.
    Whereas you live on Fantasy Island.
    For instance... Fake Daniel and Real Daniel...


  6. #2526
    Originally Posted by monet View Post
    Originally Posted by tableplay View Post
    Cheaters are fascinating, clever people - but, as you know, they'll throw you under a bus without batting an eye and everything that comes out of their mouth is an angle - it is almost impossible to become friends with people like that.
    I think it depends.
    I think the movie The Sting shows how some cheaters are different compared to others.
    I'd team up with Paul and Redford.
    Robert Shaw is way too good of an actor to of had to accept the role of the mark.
    One of the best poker scenes in movie history...
    I haven't met enough cheaters perhaps. Yes, great poker scene.
    Last edited by tableplay; 06-27-2022 at 01:13 PM.

  7. #2527
    Originally Posted by dannyj View Post
    He did a pirate movie in the mid 70ís, Swashbuckler, that was good if you havenít seen it.
    Thanks Danny, I have not seen it and will check it out.

  8. #2528
    Originally Posted by tableplay View Post
    I haven't met enough cheaters perhaps.
    I think our definitions of what cheaters are is different.

  9. #2529
    Originally Posted by Seedvalue View Post
    The LP play would work well in shops that require a certain amount of timed gaming activity to keep offers.
    Pop in your LP then go about your day. Still highly illegal and would definitely result in arrest if they catch you
    The guy that showed me the move hasn't been seen in three years (by me at least, I don't know if any one else has seen him)- maybe arrested, maybe not. What's for certain is he told me he had been banned from six casinos in the region (not necessarily for the LP) a couple of which involved "finding" large vouchers and cashing them out.

  10. #2530
    Originally Posted by monet View Post
    Originally Posted by tableplay View Post
    I haven't met enough cheaters perhaps.
    I think our definitions of what cheaters are is different.
    That sounds reasonable.

  11. #2531
    Speaking of casino cheating. This is one of the best casino cheat moves in my opinion.

    Start it at 5 min 14 seconds.
    It's called the Savannah.
    He pulled it off in the 90's, so cameras weren't as high tech. He tells good stories on Gambling with an Edge.

    Bill Zender says it's the best cheat move he has ever seen. Even in his days as a gaming agent.

    Last edited by PositiveVariance; 06-27-2022 at 02:24 PM.

  12. #2532
    Originally Posted by tableplay View Post
    Originally Posted by dannyj View Post
    He did a pirate movie in the mid 70ís, Swashbuckler, that was good if you havenít seen it.
    Thanks Danny, I have not seen it and will check it out.
    Kind of a fun adventure comedy-drama if I recall. Hope you like it.

  13. #2533
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    The things being discussed is way above my pay grade. Much of it seems way over the line of legal advantage play into cheating and stealing to me. "Stealing" might be a hard case to win since technically there is no value to free play and that is what is being "stolen".

    Whatever anyone's comfort level is in doing this stuff, is it really something that should be being discussed on public, open forum?

    BTW, congrats monet. You always wanted all the shady and illegal things being done by AP's to be discussed and acknowledged.
    However, oftentimes points earn cash back, but I guess the cashback is usually given in free play, but sometimes it's cashable credits.

    I don't know how well the "free play has no cash value" defense works anyways.

  14. #2534
    The risk vs. reward for the card cloning gig seems very high. There are many cheating moves that a first, even a second offense will get you just a warning, like past posting, if you can make it look like a mistake, and not intentionally done. Something like using a cloned card will be hard to justify if caught. Apparently it must be a fine tuned craft. Or you can pull a DarkOZ and use a realistic looking mask lol.
    Last edited by PositiveVariance; 06-27-2022 at 03:02 PM.

  15. #2535
    Originally Posted by tableplay View Post
    Originally Posted by monet View Post
    Originally Posted by tableplay View Post
    I haven't met enough cheaters perhaps.
    I think our definitions of what cheaters are is different.
    That sounds reasonable.
    It can get messy.
    We run into some conundrums like is it ok to Cheat a Cheater?
    Lie to a Liar?
    Steal from a Thief?
    Can we take it as far as to say it's ok to Kill a Killer?
    etc. etc.

    The Remington Steele Pilot is a pretty darn good example of all of this.
    Aptly Named: License to Steele (1982)

  16. #2536
    Maybe the magnetic strip was Praxes advanced machine play lol

  17. #2537
    Originally Posted by monet View Post
    We run into some conundrums like is it ok to Cheat a Cheater?
    Lie to a Liar?
    Steal from a Thief?
    Can we take it as far as to say it's ok to Kill a Killer?
    etc. etc.
    The Remington Steele Pilot is a pretty darn good example of all of this.
    Aptly Named: License to Steele (1982)
    Indeed - the guy who showed me the LP at that shop may have felt that it was OK to try and make me think that security had my photo there with the justification being "I am just cheating a cheater". Which is to say Monet, that I may be the type of cheater that I would get along with.

    In addition to your nice Remington Steele pilot example, there was the A-team,Mission Impossible, and most recently Leverage (Timothy Hutton) to name a few others.

    P.S. What's funny is that Negreanu appears to have patched things up with Polk and Polk has even had him on his podcast as you know.

  18. #2538
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    The things being discussed is way above my pay grade. Much of it seems way over the line of legal advantage play into cheating and stealing to me. "Stealing" might be a hard case to win since technically there is no value to free play and that is what is being "stolen".

    Whatever anyone's comfort level is in doing this stuff, is it really something that should be being discussed on public, open forum?

    BTW, congrats monet. You always wanted all the shady and illegal things being done by AP's to be discussed and acknowledged.
    However, oftentimes points earn cash back, but I guess the cashback is usually given in free play, but sometimes it's cashable credits.

    I don't know how well the "free play has no cash value" defense works anyways.

    There was a criminal case against someone that was hacking PINs of player's cards that had been left around at the casino and taking the FP.

    The case wound up being dismissed because the specific charge (fraud? I'm not sure) required the thing taken to be something of value, and the casino (an Indian casino iirc) was unwilling to declare that FP had value.

    But the reason they were unwilling to declare that it had value had something to do with the state tax law that they were subject to.

    My guess is the face value of the FP was tax deductible as a business expense only if it had no value (to the recipient). Then it was a marketing cost. If it had value it was a gift and not tax deductible.

    But I'm not sure about the legalities at all, I may have that wrong. There was a case that hinged on this point that perhaps KJ is alluding to.

    The other important caveat is it wouldn't necessarily apply in all jurisdictions.

  19. #2539
    Originally Posted by tableplay View Post
    P.S. What's funny is that Negreanu appears to have patched things up with Polk and Polk has even had him on his podcast as you know.
    Since they both have 10 and 60 Million in the bank I suppose its easy to turn it on and off at will.
    You have to wonder about how much is done for show or staged.
    And when you get into it you will find that its rare that these players are using their own money as they have sponsors and side action.
    I believe Polk and Ivey will use their Bankroll over what I think Negreanu and Hellmuth would use.
    Which brings us to what Ivey did with Baccarat.
    Should we classify Ivey as a Cheater and a Liar?
    Obviously players like kewlJ does not approve nor would he ever use an advantage like marked cards.
    By his standards we are all crazy on this board and should not discuss these real world topics.
    Heck, he stated that he stopped playing at certain shops (Circus Circus) because he could see the dealers hole cards.
    LOL, Honest Abe.

  20. #2540
    Originally Posted by monet View Post
    Originally Posted by tableplay View Post
    P.S. What's funny is that Negreanu appears to have patched things up with Polk and Polk has even had him on his podcast as you know.
    Since they both have 10 and 60 Million in the bank I suppose its easy to turn it on and off at will.
    You have to wonder about how much is done for show or staged.
    And when you get into it you will find that its rare that these players are using their own money as they have sponsors and side action.
    I believe Polk and Ivey will use their Bankroll over what I think Negreanu and Hellmuth would use.
    Which brings us to what Ivey did with Baccarat.
    Should we classify Ivey as a Cheater and a Liar?
    Obviously players like kewlJ does not approve nor would he ever use an advantage like marked cards.
    By his standards we are all crazy on this board and should not discuss these real world topics.
    Heck, he stated that he stopped playing at certain shops (Circus Circus) because he could see the dealers hole cards.
    LOL, Honest Abe.
    Great points. Ivey's (and his accomplice's) edge sorting move was fair and square in my book - I would classify him as an advantage player and not a cheat nor a liar. We were told we should not always be trolling one another and move on to more fruitful discussions (I'm paraphrasing here). But then, when Seed Value requested that we get the ball rolling with some real world advantage play discussion, starting it off with his interesting ghost card play (followed by me mentioning a dangerous move, the LP, that someone showed me), it was then decided that we should not be discussing real world topics.

    P.S. With regard to cheaters cheating cheaters, you'll recall from one of our previous discussions that this is so common that the Aussies even have a name for someone that robs robbers - a Standover Man.

    P.P.S. I'm glad next-hand UX multipliers aren't considered to have value with regard to the law.

    Edit:Your Hot Sucker thread and the many times Mickey has provided extremely useful AP info were previous examples of outstanding discussions - I didn't mean to imply that this was first time such discussions have occurred.

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