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Thread: Laughlin Pioneer Hustlers Convention - 2002

  1. #21
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    So I go back and take a look at the quarter Game Kings. The sign said payouts between 50 and 250 coins pays double. The GK's were against a wall but were linked to machines out on the floor.

    For video poker they had 9/6 Jacks, Double Bonus, Double Double Bonus, etc. And there was a 4-Card Keno game. No Blackjack. The only thing that qualified for the double pay on video poker was the Four of a Kinds and the Straight Flush. And some of the Four of a Kinds on Double and Double Double didn't qualify. 9/6 Jacks would be the best game to play The max bet was $1.25. There were no Full Houses that payed 50 coins.

    Why in the hell were they playing video poker? 9/6 would be the best play but just a $25 wager in the double time with a 6% edge meant it was worth only about $2 per double time....and you had to keep the machine qualified. So that's not what they were doing.

    I was stumped on the video poker so I moved on to the 4-Card Keno.

    It was $1 max bet per card. I go thru the payscale and quickly see that a 2-Spot payed 60 coins. That would fit in the 50-250 parameters.

    I quickly did the math on the 2-Spot. Keno math is easy once you get the hang out of it. The 2-Spot math is easy to do on a pocket calculator.

    80X79/2X1 = 3160 possible two spots on the card.

    20X19/2X1 = 190 combinations where the 2-Spot hits.

    3160/190 means the frequency of the 2-Spot is 16.63158

    I set all 4 cards up with 2-Spots. Different numbers on every card. Then tested it to see how many games per minute. It was 10 games per minute. So that would be 10 X 4 cards at $1 per card = a wager of $40.

    The payback of the 2-Spot is pretty simple

    15/16.63158 = 90.19%. So in double time it would be 180.38%

    With an 80.38% edge the double time would be worth:

    $40 X .8038% = $32.15

    That was a much higher yield than the video poker I had been working.

    Then it was time to test keeping the machine qualified. I hit the 1-coin button. It cleared the other three cards of numbers and everything and left just the 1 coin bet on one card. Houston we have a problem.

    I set the cards up again and it took to long. The double time would be over by the time I got the cards set up again.

    Once I got the cards set up and hit the max bet button again I seen that the only way to keep the game set up and qualified was I had to play one coin on each card. It would be a $600 wager per hour with a 10% drop to keep the game qualified for the double times. No way, Jose.

    So I was sitting there thinking, thinking, thinking.....

    How in the hell?

    What in the hell were they doing?

    And they were playing video poker too?

    What the hell is the video poker for?

    All of a sudden it dawned on me. They must have been using the video poker to keep the machine qualified.

    I moved the game over to 9/6 Jacks played a hand then quickly hit the button to return to the game selection screen then hit the 4-Card Keno sensor. When the Keno game came up I quickly hit the max bet button.

    Yep, that was it. That's what they were doing.

    I timed it to see how much time was lost switching games. I could get out only 8 games in double time instead of 10. That was a little cut in pay, but not bad, about $25 per double time.

    The cost to stay qualified betting one coin was negligible on the 9/6, less than $5 an hour.

    So I was a happy camper at that point. I went into the gift shop and bought a hat. I got on the machine farthest away from the aisle. If I got made sitting on this bank the other hustlers would quickly pile in.

    Other hustlers on the bank meant the money pool would get sucked down....
    Terrific story Mickey. I take it that you could not just temporarily drop the denom size (with 4 cards active) to keep the machine qualified until double time since you were already at the minimum bet size.
    Here's something that might be considered hilarious:the DU bug was available in 2002 IIRC. Imagine exploiting the DU bug during double time - just a pipe dream obviously.

  2. #22
    I had the 4-Card Keno to myself for two days. Late in the 2nd day I hear a voice behind me "What's going on here, Mickey." I turn around and it's Randy.

    "Oh! Hey, Randy. You're not gonna rat me out are ya?"
    "How strong is it?"
    "Pretty strong."
    "Well, I'll let you have it to yourself for the rest of the day but tomorrow I have to put my guy on it."
    "Okay, thanks."

    Randy was talking about Alan M. Alan had been around the gambling world for 20 years. He was an old slot cheat. He quit the cheat when Gaming was hot on his trails. But he HAD been introduced to the basement of the Horseshoe for stringing. They asked him if he wanted them to call Gaming or take as ass whooping. He told them to go ahead and kick his ass. That's what they did.

    He tried to make it as a straight up gambler but had to many leaks. He was a compulsive gambler. He couldn't keep a bankroll. So he worked for Randy.

    The next day Alan shows up and says "Are you going to tell me how it works or do I have to sit here and watch you till I figure it out."

    So I showed him what to do. My pay went down but at least I had someone to talk too.

    Alan had an apartment across the River in Old Bullhead City. Right down the hill from there was the Arizona Clearwater Hotel. It was a daily/weekly/monthly. Except everyone had to clear out of the hotel in the last weekend in April because the Hell's Angels rented the whole building for the Laughlin River Run every year. And they put sentry's on every door.

    The conversation between Alan and I got on the shootout.

    "I knew there was going to be trouble this year" Alan said.
    "How did you know" I asked.
    "Because I watched the Angels ride in this year with their colors on. They never done that before. The River Run has always been neutral ground with the clubs. But not this year. The Angels and Mongols were both wearing their colors."

    "It's got to be a patch war" I said. "They're probably fighting over what territory they have listed on the bottom rockers of their patches."

    Alan and I finished out the day by ourselves. The next day would bring more competition onto the bank which lead to the demise of the Game Kings as a profit center on the double time.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  3. #23
    Alan M, what are the odds LOL. It's REALLY SAFE to say it's not VCT 18 yo Alan

  4. #24
    The next day on the Game King bank brought Axel and his girlfriend to the play. Hustlers on the River had talked about Axel in the past. I've known axel's last name since 1997. However, I never told anyone. If he wanted it out there he would do it himself.

    I first heard his name in 1997. In the high roller room of the Riverside there were two linked $5 8/5 Jacks progressives with a 2% meter. It was way over my bankroll at the time. I was told that Axel and his crew would lock it up when it hit 43K. So I kept an eye on it. When it hit 43K they showed up.

    At the Pioneer in 2002 Axel had been on a Game Maker doing something but that play must have dried up because he moved over to the Game King bank.

    Someone was definitely keeping an eye on that bank because one morning we came in and the parameters had been changed. It WAS 50 to 250 coins payouts were doubled. But they changed it to 100 to 250 coin payouts doubled to knock us out of the 60 coin payouts on the two-spot.

    Up until that time we had all been playing different numbers on the two-spots. For instance, on the 1st card I played 1 and 2, on the 2nd card I played 3 and 4, on the 3rd card I played 5 and 6 and on the 4th card I played 7 and 8.

    So we changed our cards. I changed my cards to where the 1st and 2nd cards played the numbers 1 and 2, and the 3rd and 4th cards played 3 and 4. This meant that hitting the two-spot would pay 120 coins and thus get doubled. A little more variance but what the hell.

    And we all had a good laugh at the brain surgeon of a casino employee that thought he was going to knock us off the bank.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  5. #25
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    The next day on the Game King bank brought Axel and his girlfriend to the play. Hustlers on the River had talked about Axel in the past. I've known axel's last name since 1997. However, I never told anyone. If he wanted it out there he would do it himself.

    I first heard his name in 1997. In the high roller room of the Riverside there were two linked $5 8/5 Jacks progressives with a 2% meter. It was way over my bankroll at the time. I was told that Axel and his crew would lock it up when it hit 43K. So I kept an eye on it. When it hit 43K they showed up.

    At the Pioneer in 2002 Axel had been on a Game Maker doing something but that play must have dried up because he moved over to the Game King bank.

    Someone was definitely keeping an eye on that bank because one morning we came in and the parameters had been changed. It WAS 50 to 250 coins payouts were doubled. But they changed it to 100 to 250 coin payouts doubled to knock us out of the 60 coin payouts on the two-spot.

    Up until that time we had all been playing different numbers on the two-spots. For instance, on the 1st card I played 1 and 2, on the 2nd card I played 3 and 4, on the 3rd card I played 5 and 6 and on the 4th card I played 7 and 8.

    So we changed our cards. I changed my cards to where the 1st and 2nd cards played the numbers 1 and 2, and the 3rd and 4th cards played 3 and 4. This meant that hitting the two-spot would pay 120 coins and thus get doubled. A little more variance but what the hell.

    And we all had a good laugh at the brain surgeon of a casino employee that thought he was going to knock us off the bank.
    I was hopping around from section to section after the bonus pools dried up. That Game maker had $1keno, the hourly was good and the bonus coin requirements were perfectly suited, but there were times I hit it and it didn't register.... which was super annoying. I was Also playing the Odyssey Blackjack for I think 100 a hand(That was the Nuts). I'm fairly certain I was the last AP in there when I finally cleared out of the pioneer. FYI You did a write-up on this over at WOV. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gamb...il-may-2002/2/

  6. #26
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    The next day on the Game King bank brought Axel and his girlfriend to the play. Hustlers on the River had talked about Axel in the past. I've known axel's last name since 1997. However, I never told anyone. If he wanted it out there he would do it himself.

    I first heard his name in 1997. In the high roller room of the Riverside there were two linked $5 8/5 Jacks progressives with a 2% meter. It was way over my bankroll at the time. I was told that Axel and his crew would lock it up when it hit 43K. So I kept an eye on it. When it hit 43K they showed up.

    At the Pioneer in 2002 Axel had been on a Game Maker doing something but that play must have dried up because he moved over to the Game King bank.

    Someone was definitely keeping an eye on that bank because one morning we came in and the parameters had been changed. It WAS 50 to 250 coins payouts were doubled. But they changed it to 100 to 250 coin payouts doubled to knock us out of the 60 coin payouts on the two-spot.

    Up until that time we had all been playing different numbers on the two-spots. For instance, on the 1st card I played 1 and 2, on the 2nd card I played 3 and 4, on the 3rd card I played 5 and 6 and on the 4th card I played 7 and 8.

    So we changed our cards. I changed my cards to where the 1st and 2nd cards played the numbers 1 and 2, and the 3rd and 4th cards played 3 and 4. This meant that hitting the two-spot would pay 120 coins and thus get doubled. A little more variance but what the hell.

    And we all had a good laugh at the brain surgeon of a casino employee that thought he was going to knock us off the bank.
    I was hopping around from section to section after the bonus pools dried up. That Game maker had $1keno, the hourly was good and the bonus coin requirements were perfectly suited, but there were times I hit it and it didn't register.... which was super annoying. I was Also playing the Odyssey Blackjack for I think 100 a hand(That was the Nuts). I'm fairly certain I was the last AP in there when I finally cleared out of the pioneer. FYI You did a write-up on this over at WOV. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gamb...il-may-2002/2/
    I don't know if you knew Tom S. and his brother Butch but they had their eye on that $1 Oddyssey machine for when it came online. I know Frank was on it when they made it ineligible for double time. That's the machine that the house really got shellacked on.

    Frank said he took 12K out of it in a matter of hours. I seen why after he explained to me what was going on. When you won a hand where you bet 100 coins it would payback 200 coins then double that. So winning hands were getting paid 4 for 1. And on pushes it paid back the 100 coins then double that. So pushes were getting paid 2 for 1.

    I quit the Pioneer play when Tom S. caught me in the Belle and told me Randy McKay had just gotten pitched out. He was on $1 five-play Super Aces in the bartops at the River Bar going from 1 coin bet to 25 coin bet in double time. I can see how they would get sore over that. LOL!

    I left Laughlin, went to Northern Nevada where it was still pretty good. That is until Skip Hughes, in that rag of his, named Reno as the number one video poker destination in the world. It started a slow decline until practically nothing was left by 2007.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

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