Is this the "advatnage players definition of winning"??

[Alan Mendelson]

Do you mean the Frank who doesn't play with his own money and hasn't for the past 14 years?

[Alan Mendelson]

If you have 9/6 JOB combined with .9% CB and .6% freeplay that comes out to a 1% edge. In fact, that is exactly what one could play at SouthPoint on triple point days when I was in Vegas.

Sounds to me like the authors were providing valuable information to people who know how to comprehend English. However, I've noted several times that you have a problem in that area. Instead of attacking these people I think you should be taking a close look in the mirror. Sorry to be blunt, but that is reality.

I couldn't resist the chance to reveal the truth. So I just got off the phone with South Point. Current free play offers are limited to $75 PER MAILER. That's it. $75. Cash back is 0.3%. I'm sorry to be blunt, Arc, but that is reality.

[redietz]

As far as my own tax bracket is concerned (as someone who will not pump 200K on up per month at one property), it appears as if various Stations properties have 25 cent FPDW, and points are limited or none. The Palms, I heard recently, reinstated their 25 cent FPDW. Now you're only going to make, what, $6 to $8 an hour playing these, but it's better than losing.

So you can win, but unless you have one helluva bankroll and a history that puts you in the top 50 players in the city so as to get top cashback at Coast, for example, you're going to have to settle for doing it the old fashioned way -- $1.25 at a time on single play quarter machines.

Now if you're one of the top 50 and can generate mega-entries in various drawings, I suppose you can fill your days pounding six digits through the machines while keeping your fingers crossed that various and sundry on-the-ropes or bankruptcy-emerging companies don't rig their drawings for specific players.

This is why Frank isn't playing.

[Alan Mendelson]

As far as my own tax bracket is concerned (as someone who will not pump 200K on up per month at one property), it appears as if various Stations properties have 25 cent FPDW, and points are limited or none. The Palms, I heard recently, reinstated their 25 cent FPDW. Now you're only going to make, what, $6 to $8 an hour playing these, but it's better than losing.

So you can win, but unless you have one helluva bankroll and a history that puts you in the top 50 players in the city so as to get top cashback at Coast, for example, you're going to have to settle for doing it the old fashioned way -- $1.25 at a time on single play quarter machines.

Now if you're one of the top 50 and can generate mega-entries in various drawings, I suppose you can fill your days pounding six digits through the machines while keeping your fingers crossed that various and sundry on-the-ropes or bankruptcy-emerging companies don't rig their drawings for specific players.

This is why Frank isn't playing.

From what Frank was saying he's still playing on a regular basis. So, it does exist. What's your next excuse for whining?

I am going to have to side with redietz on this one. When I had lunch with Frank several months ago he told me he hasn't played in a long, long time and when he did it was ONLY WOPM (with other people's money).

Arc, care to comment? And don't forget to let me know if you have or have not read the books by the video poker authors?

[Rob.Singer]

Well now Alan, if you're gonna start cheating and quote actual points spoken by a real live Frank IN PERSON, then you'll have to give arci a little more time to collect himself and make up more nonsense on the go. You can bet he won't sleeping well, as he HAS TO put a different spin on it or an altogether different set of made up lies.

You caught him with his pants down. That was GREAT!!

[arcimede$]

Do you mean the Frank who doesn't play with his own money and hasn't for the past 14 years?

Frank's been playing for more than 14 years. In addition, I assume his pay was likely close to the average expectation so what he did was smartly cut his variance which would eliminate big wins (and losses). He likely didn't make more money that he would have otherwise over the total time, but all I referring to was he probably had a few big years that were better than the one you quoted.

[arcimede$]

I couldn't resist the chance to reveal the truth. So I just got off the phone with South Point. Current free play offers are limited to $75 PER MAILER. That's it. $75. Cash back is 0.3%. I'm sorry to be blunt, Arc, but that is reality.

Cashback was always .3%. I was referring to 3x point days. Did you ask about those? As for freeplay it used to be $100 at the level I played so that hasn't changed much. I would play at SP on their 3x days and collect the mailer. With that limited play it worked out to exactly what I said.

This is another reason why I played at multiple casinos. I only played at SP the amount of time to give me a 1% edge. That was it. If I had played more my edge would have dropped. This is the way you need to think if you want to be an AP. The lies wheels tells you about APers just jumping on a machine and playing forever are not true.

I've also mentioned my play at Tuscany before as well. Same approach. I played their on 5x and 10x days only. I collected freeplay and CB that gave me about a 1.5% edge. I also played at Palms, Fiestas, Sams Town, Stations, Circus Circus, Skyline and other places when promotions or games went in where I had an advantage. No one said it was easy to be a winner.

[arcimede$]

I am going to have to side with redietz on this one. When I had lunch with Frank several months ago he told me he hasn't played in a long, long time and when he did it was ONLY WOPM (with other people's money).

Frank mentioned he was playing quite regularly (more than he wanted) when he was commenting on LVA and VP.com (he'd even make comments about having to leave to go play). I have a feeling you're not being completely honest here.

[Rob.Singer]

BINGO! Right on queue!! Notice the multiple responses arci needed to come up with what he wants to believe are face-saving answers to Frank's actual statements? Lies never do make it past those pesky little facts though.

[Alan Mendelson]

Arc let me set you straight. Frank managed teams. He sometimes would sit in on a team playing with someone else's money, when team was short. He hasn't put one quarter of his own into a machine in more than fourteen years, and he told me to my face while he chomped on a $38 steak at Central at Caesars that he wouldn't put even a quarter into a video poker machine today ANYWHERE.

If he wants to change that and post it here he's invited and he's a member of the Forum.

I addressed the multiplier days in another post. Yes there are multiplier days but for the real world recreational gambler who does not live in Vegas or live in a casino, whether or nut there is a multiplier day when we play is just a matter of luck. Many casinos do not have multiplier days -- it's really something in the "locals market."

And regarding his comments on the various message boards about "leaving" -- I think they referred to him going out on a date. LOL

[arcimede$]

Alan, you stated he wasn't playing any VP ("When I had lunch with Frank several months ago he told me he hasn't played in a long, long time"). So you need to make up your mind.

Alan, I've never said anything about Frank not playing with other people's money. He's stated that many times. However, as I said before Frank has played for over 20 years and he did play with his own money when he started. Why do you constantly fight what is extremely simple to understand.

In many ways it doesn't matter. If Frank was playing with someone elses money and he was losing don't you think they'd stop paying him? I mean, come on ... use your brain. So, I suspect Frank earned big dollars for the team for many, many years. Some years he did better by playing with on the team's money, some years he did worse. This is really just simple logic.

So, none of your silly claims means VP machines can't be beat or that Frank wasn't earning big money for the team when he played.

[Alan Mendelson]

Arc, I concede that playing with other people's money is indeed playing. So let me just go back and say this: he hasn't played with his own money in 14 years.

And I also don't know what he was paid as a manager, how often he was paid, what his pay rate is, or how much money he has in the bank.

But it tells me reams when he says he hasn't played with his own money in 14 years and he wouldn't play with his own money today. And here's a guy in Vegas who is only a ten minute drive from any of the "advantage plays" in town that you covet so much.

[Rob.Singer]

Check with Frank arci if he'll talk to you (which is doubtful because he does not like conflict-driven people). He just told me he was LOSING this year, which he of course caveated with the usual AP feel-good line that he has always won for his teams in the past.

After watching arci tell so many bold faced lies, I have no idea why anyone would believe anything these people try to get others to believe. They all have their own agendas and needs they wish to portray to the public.

[arcimede$]

I thought wheels was off travelling and yet Frank "just" told him ....

I think we know who is telling "bold faced lies".

[arcimede$]

But it tells me reams when he says he hasn't played with his own money in 14 years and he wouldn't play with his own money today. And here's a guy in Vegas who is only a ten minute drive from any of the "advantage plays" in town that you covet so much.

Why would that tell you anything? Didn't you ever listen to what Frank was saying. He told us all that he hates playing VP. Why would it surprise you that he doesn't play?

[Alan Mendelson]

Gee Arc, I would expect that a professional video poker player would play video poker -- and he would use his own money too. But, what the heck do I know.

Yes, Frank said he hates to play, but he said that's his job and how he earns his living. What we know now -- or the last time I saw a post of his and the last time I spoke with him over the table at Caesars -- was that he hasn't used his own money in 14 years to play and he wouldn't use his own money today.

I'll add one more thing about Frank and VP. He hates VP so much he would love for others to learn about the grief it caused him so they would stop playing also. You know Arc, that doesn't sound like something that a big video poker winner would say. And Frank says that based on current conditions you can't win big anymore. Of course, Frank doesnt know about your magic One Eyed Jacks machine in Minnesota, does he?

[arcimede$]

I don't know if Frank knows anything about gambling in MN and I doubt he'd consider moving away from LV to play VP. Not exactly something a person does who hates to play VP and loves the nightlife in Vegas.

You keep rambling about Frank not using his own money even after I've explained the logic to you many times. But then, you don't want to understand so I'm not surprised. If I were in Frank's shoes and I was given a set income instead of dealing with the ups and downs of normal play I have to consider it seriously. It would all depend on how much I'd have to give up on average. If it was small, then it would be a no-brainer. Of course, Frank is good at math so he'd know ... Alan ... not so much.

[Alan Mendelson]

Hey Arc, how's this for math:

When I go to work, I get 100% return on my effort. When I go into a casino, I stand a chance of losing it all. LOL

[Rob.Singer]

I thought wheels was off travelling and yet Frank "just" told him ....

I think we know who is telling "bold faced lies".

Always looking for more conflict arci, than you have to deal with there?
Ever heard of the new technology called "e-mail"? Or are you still dreaming in the punch card era!!

[Alan Mendelson]

I think we know who is telling "bold faced lies".

Just to keep this discussion educational, the correct term is bald faced lies, as if to say the lies are prominent as a man's face without hair to cover it up.