Seedvalue

[redietz]

I know nothing about most of this and have no general opinion.

But yeah, I'm shocked that anyone's default mode is to assume "the wife" is Sergeant Schultz. That doesn't seem a reasonable assumption. So with Mission being an intelligent, somewhat worldly dude, I'm fascinated that that is his default.

Speculating out loud, my only conclusions are along the lines of (1) Mission knows a lot about the "community" as you guys call it, and I don't, so the "community" must be crawling with people who don't share much with their wives or (2) Mission himself wasn't into sharing much about his gambling with his significant other(s).

I'd work on the opposite premise -- in fact, I do work on the opposite premise. If I tell someone something, I work on the assumption the significant other will know it, too. I think that's a realistic appraisal of how most of American culture works.

[Mission146]

***AMENDED***

I just looked and the WoN account was created in July of 2015, so I might have something mistaken. I'm a little fuzzy on six years ago, but not as fuzzy as I will be in fifty years when you sanctimonious cunts are still bringing this up. Bunch of fucking Mother Teresas in the AP gambling world, I tell you what.

Anyway, he might have been posting as SAP when we exchanged numbers; I truly don't remember. Either way, he'd been posting as WoN for some time before I came to know that the two were the same, whether or not I was working with him.

The thing is that I can't remember if the play with Axel was 2015 or 2016. If I could remember that, then I would be able to tell you.

From reading the thread, 2016. I never talked to him outside of the forums until he was already posting as WoN. Quite a few people knew that SAP=WoN before I did.

[Mission146]

I know nothing about most of this and have no general opinion.

But yeah, I'm shocked that anyone's default mode is to assume "the wife" is Sergeant Schultz. That doesn't seem a reasonable assumption. So with Mission being an intelligent, somewhat worldly dude, I'm fascinated that that is his default.

Speculating out loud, my only conclusions are along the lines of (1) Mission knows a lot about the "community" as you guys call it, and I don't, so the "community" must be crawling with people who don't share much with their wives or (2) Mission himself wasn't into sharing much about his gambling with his significant other(s).

I'd work on the opposite premise -- in fact, I do work on the opposite premise. If I tell someone something, I work on the assumption the significant other will know it, too. I think that's a realistic appraisal of how most of American culture works.

Who the fuck is Sergeant Schultz?

In general terms, I've only met one AP whose wife is an active party to any casino plays, and even then, that's only because she travels with him anyway. I will also say that my experience is that WoN actively tried not to have his wife involved in these sort of affairs. On one occasion, when I had a few cards that I did pick ups on to drop off, I had to wait for her to leave. Further, in most other instances where I would go to his place, he would meet me outside.

For my part, my fiancee knows next to nothing about what I do because she genuinely has no interest in it. She'll take a trip to get cards from time to time, but generally prefers not to do that and has no interest in the ins and outs of what's going on. We also recently did an online casino thing where she got 100% of the profits, ended up being several hundred, but it required making a deposit in person and it was like pulling teeth to get her to go---and the casino is barely an hour from us!!!

Anyway, I will say that your speculation is correct on both counts. My ex-wife also had virtually zero interest in anything gambling-related and actively refused to participate in most things. Of course, the first casino visit of her entire life would see her having to talk to a supervisor and being asked questions that she had no way of knowing the answers to, so I think that soured her on it for life. She did like the hotel rooms at the local and enjoyed a little VP at The D, but that's about it.

In any event, her knowing about something and taking an active role in it are two different things---but I 100% doubt that his wife, or then-wife, knew about any of this stuff. Some of his stuff has clearly not gone very well, according to what the website said, so I seriously doubt he would be going out of his way to tell his wife, or then wife, about those things.

Crucially, the website also did not make a single accusation against her or do anything to suggest that she knew shit about anything.

[mcap]

According to the vows, man and wife become one so…save the sanctimonious bullspit.community property and all that, deserves if she stays involved with him. And mission of all people trying to play moral police now lmao. Btw you seem morose in you smoking column so don’t blame it on interacting with us.

[jbjb]

***AMENDED***

I just looked and the WoN account was created in July of 2015, so I might have something mistaken. I'm a little fuzzy on six years ago, but not as fuzzy as I will be in fifty years when you sanctimonious cunts are still bringing this up. Bunch of fucking Mother Teresas in the AP gambling world, I tell you what.

Anyway, he might have been posting as SAP when we exchanged numbers; I truly don't remember. Either way, he'd been posting as WoN for some time before I came to know that the two were the same, whether or not I was working with him.

The thing is that I can't remember if the play with Axel was 2015 or 2016. If I could remember that, then I would be able to tell you.

From reading the thread, 2016. I never talked to him outside of the forums until he was already posting as WoN. Quite a few people knew that SAP=WoN before I did.

His postings of the numerous UX jackpots were a dead giveaway.

[Mission146]

***AMENDED***

I just looked and the WoN account was created in July of 2015, so I might have something mistaken. I'm a little fuzzy on six years ago, but not as fuzzy as I will be in fifty years when you sanctimonious cunts are still bringing this up. Bunch of fucking Mother Teresas in the AP gambling world, I tell you what.

Anyway, he might have been posting as SAP when we exchanged numbers; I truly don't remember. Either way, he'd been posting as WoN for some time before I came to know that the two were the same, whether or not I was working with him.

The thing is that I can't remember if the play with Axel was 2015 or 2016. If I could remember that, then I would be able to tell you.

From reading the thread, 2016. I never talked to him outside of the forums until he was already posting as WoN. Quite a few people knew that SAP=WoN before I did.

His postings of the numerous UX jackpots were a dead giveaway.

In retrospect, yes. It wasn’t long after I had been working with him that I came to discover that SAP=WoN and at no point did I deny knowing that at some point prior to 2018. I only maintain that I’d already been working with him before I came to know that. UX pictures, on their own, would have been a non-mover for me anyway. When I’d read threads, I’d mainly be looking for rules infractions, which some jackpot picture isn’t going to be, so I never paid much attention.

Also, I’d already been on record before working with him that I opposed SAP’s banning in the first place on the grounds that I don’t think it’s a good precedent for the forum to play bet police. As far as I know, that action was done by a Secret Admin (that part is 100% fact) and I believe he did it without consulting anyone. Upon finding out, I opposed the decision, but not aggressively. Keep in mind, the only known infraction at the time was a no pay on a small bet that he claimed was in dispute, for reasons I don’t remember.

Nobody could have known at the time, but things would have actually been better had he not been banned for that. If he hadn’t and continued to post as SAP, then anyone could see that the payment of that bet hadn’t been resolved.

Further, I was directly told that the two were the same and didn’t find out on my own. Since the two parties telling me directly asked me not to ban WoN (of which one was another Admin) and I didn’t ban him, I could no longer disclose that they were the same as it was now information I’d been told privately.

As everyone is aware, Wizard is pretty big on privacy rules.

[Mission146]

According to the vows, man and wife become one so…save the sanctimonious bullspit.community property and all that, deserves if she stays involved with him. And mission of all people trying to play moral police now lmao. Btw you seem morose in you smoking column so don’t blame it on interacting with us.

If the vows held any real weight, then divorces wouldn’t exist. Further, my position is that people are responsible for their own doings and not actions done by others. I guess I should be happy you don’t make the laws.

Anyway, I hold very few morals, so far be it from me to police anyone. End of the day, it remained an undeniable violation of Forum rules, so the only thing the wife being mentioned changed was whether or not I would be the one to personally do anything about it. Of my few morals, one is that you don’t do anything untoward to women, but apparently, I’m either alone or nearly alone in holding that as a near moral absolute.

You think that there are some cases in which it is justified, which is fine. Your moral positions are not my concern.

[mcap]

Fair. I will just say she probably doesn’t know specifics but it’s extremely unlikely she was not well aware of his character deficiencies and type of person in general.

[Mission146]

I tend to think women see their partners through rose-colored glasses. In any case, if WoN is everything that people say that he is, I doubt the full extent of that would have been his wife’s perspective. It surprises me, assuming everything everyone has ever said is true, that it doesn’t occur to any of you that someone who loves you could well be the easiest mark of all time.

[smurgerburger]

This thread literally gives me a headache.

[DGenBen]

I’ve noticed that generally speaking women who haven’t been gamblers don’t like being around casinos.

Women that have been gamblers that try to AP with their significant others often struggle with transitioning from a carefree recreational activity (particularly if they like drinking) to something that is more like a job,

Again generally speaking, I’ve seen exceptions too.

Asian women - whole different set of rules than the above.

[mickeycrimm]

Word is hustlers are camping on the Ascensions.

Indeed. Aristocrat's answer to Hexbreaker . . .

I've seen only one bank so far so the game isn't spreading like wildfire. At least not yet.

[mickeycrimm]

Who the fuck is Sergeant Schultz?

[tableplay]

Word is hustlers are camping on the Ascensions.

Indeed. Aristocrat's answer to Hexbreaker . . .

I've seen only one bank so far so the game isn't spreading like wildfire. At least not yet.

thanks - yes it will be interesting to see how popular this game ends up being.

[smurgerburger]

Indeed. Aristocrat's answer to Hexbreaker . . .

I've seen only one bank so far so the game isn't spreading like wildfire. At least not yet.

thanks - yes it will be interesting to see how popular this game ends up being.

I think it's quite a bit worse than Hexbreaker because:

1. It only has 3 notches above reset whereas hexbreaker has 5,
2. The 2 and 4 column "orbs" are worth more than the average hexbreaker orbs,
3. The 1 and 5 columns don't ascend.

All of those things taken together mean that a high center column doesn't skew the payback as much as it would in hexbreaker... Barring some severe cheating by Aristocrat the payback of a max center column (including the final jackpot) must be higher than a random state, but I think not as severely as it is in hexbreaker.

Idk though just my speculations. I have played it a bit. When it first came in you would find maxed center columns left on every machine and occasionally all three columns maxed. After a week it looked more like hexbreaker looks now.

I actually never hit the center column jackpot when I played. I did notice that in typical Buffalo fashion the line pays can be huge.

[tableplay]

I've seen only one bank so far so the game isn't spreading like wildfire. At least not yet.

thanks - yes it will be interesting to see how popular this game ends up being.

I think it's quite a bit worse than Hexbreaker because:

1. It only has 3 notches above reset whereas hexbreaker has 5,
2. The 2 and 4 column "orbs" are worth more than the average hexbreaker orbs,
3. The 1 and 5 columns don't ascend.

All of those things taken together mean that a high center column doesn't skew the payback as much as it would in hexbreaker... Barring some severe cheating by Aristocrat the payback of a max center column (including the final jackpot) must be higher than a random state, but I think not as severely as it is in hexbreaker.

Idk though just my speculations. I have played it a bit. When it first came in you would find maxed center columns left on every machine and occasionally all three columns maxed. After a week it looked more like hexbreaker looks now.

I actually never hit the center column jackpot when I played. I did notice that in typical Buffalo fashion the line pays can be huge.

It seems very popular among recreational players. The infrequency of the arrow symbols which cause ascensions of the columns make this game more marginal than many other offerings as far as my early impressions of the game go.

[jbjb]

[tableplay]

I agree JBJB - I'm down for some spins if I find the game with 9/20 more real estate and free games as the column 2 and 4 reel prizes upstairs. You are 9/20 more likely to get into a bonus round from the coin scatter symbols versus no expanded reels (I am not clear on how much more or less likely expansion arrows are on the fully expanded board versus the non-expanded board). Once you are in the bonus game, you've got 9/20 more of a chance for retriggers versus no expanded reels from the coin scatter symbols. The other source of retriggers - the expansion arrows, are in play since the 2 and 4 reels are maxed out (and reels 2 and 4 are free games prizes). And of course you are retriggering into a game that is 9/20 larger than no expansion. Recursion, gotta love it.

[Don Perignom]

Mission seems to be, in the words of Jay, one morose motherfucker.

Thanks mcap. I've been using that word all week now. Knew what it meant, but it wasn't active in my vocabulary.

[Treeshade]

For the record...are you denying that the WOV Seedvalue is you?

How much are you willing to pay to see the fight?

Coach do realize how many fucking narcs and darksiders are on these forums ? You got to use a jailbroken Burner with ghost sims and leech off other peoples wifi and all types of shit Just to communicate with them. If not they all try to data base you narc you out to casinos, sue you, and all types of shit. AP online community is made up mostly of cons , trolls, cops, and wannabe successful gamblers. Including most forum owners who won’t confirm or deny their involvement with lawsuits and doxing. Pathetic because they don’t have the stamina, work ethic, or intellect to succeed at the highest level. So they cuck out and become narcs.

I would pay a lot to watch that fight. I used to respect mission until that fiasco over at WOV. He’s a tuff guy also I hear. Everyone who does business with cons are sus and not to be trusted in my book.

Alan is harmless but he is sticking to the 18 yos it looks like.

I truly wish people wouldn't bring these things to my attention; did it not occur to you that I almost never post here?

Also, I am not the Mission146 from WoV; it's not like I have a trademark on the name, or anything.

Anyway, this is the last that I am going to address events from half a decade ago, so I would be quite happy if you would content yourself with more orgies and less bringing me up for no reason.

1.) I don't know who you are, but even if I did, I almost certainly wouldn't care whether I have your respect or not. In fairness, there's probably no great reason that I should have anyone's respect, if you want to know the truth. You can respect my intellect without respecting me; Mission, the person, leaves a great deal to be desired.

2.) Supposing that everything ever said about WoN is true--why would I have known about any of that? You seem like an intelligent-enough person, but maybe I have a bad read on you. Either way, cons usually don't make a habit of explaining their nefarious dealings with other people to potential marks...might be something you weren't aware of.

3.) Of course, I did hear various murmurings about the guy, but they were all wanting for specifics. By, 'Specifics,' I mean anything other than base allegations. I wasn't involving anyone from the forums with him anyway and never vouched for him, so what difference does it make what I do in my personal dealings?

You'd have it that KewlJ is a male escort; am I supposed to take you at face value? Besides, I didn't risk anything in my dealings with WoN, time aside.

4.) Evidently, some people claim that he conned them into this thing or that thing and were separated from some major money accordingly. Everyone needs someone or something to blame, so I guess it might as well be me. If I were in the situation where I put massive amounts of my money into someone else's hands and got bilked in one way or another, then perhaps I would be a bit more introspective and wonder if I am at fault due to my own greed and naivety.

5.) I don't know what anyone might have said about me outside of the public view related to anything along these lines, but I assure you that I spend a huge majority of my time around the area where I live. If someone claims that I did or said anything, then my advice would be to just come ask me about it as I never vouched for WoN to anyone and, as far as I know, was never asked if I would do so. Perhaps anyone who had something untoward happen to them would do well to assume that everything that they are being told is a lie...which is mostly what I assume.

My approach to life is to look at the worst possible outcome of taking a certain action, assume said outcome is exactly what will happen and then move forward accordingly.

Absent specific questions (within the next 24 hours) which I may or may not answer with specificity, I am done with this. I'll be back at 14:15 EST tomorrow. Thank you, fuck you, bye. Have a wonderful weekend.

ADDED: Finally, with what I am presently doing, I work alone. I see no reason for that to ever change. I'll take 5% of the expected earn to be by myself than ever work with anyone again other than a one day thing, or what have you. That being the case, I have no want, much less need, for anyone to trust me. I'm also not particularly reliable, so I would advise people not to trust me.

You don’t owe me or anyone an explanation. With that said I’m glad you posted this. Perhaps my judgment of you was wrong. I did and still do respect mission the AP, and if I’m completely honest I do recognize WON to be one of the top APs around. He’s just not the richest or the best as he would have everyone believe.

Events around this topic are seeming to be getting a bit too serious. Spilling over into dangers unhealthy territory for some. So I won’t be commenting further.

Mission thanks again for the clarification.