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Thread: Accounting Lesson #1

  1. #21
    Originally Posted by DGenBen View Post
    Strictly In terms of APing (not life in general) I always thought the Ferengi were good role models.
    Ben, as you'll recall, the writers really morphed the Ferengi from their first appearance in Star Trek The Next Generation compared to the Deep Space Nine incarnation of them - initially they acted like little impish cavemen and then, by Deep Space Nine, they were portrayed as wealthy merchants who's main priority was money.

  2. #22
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    I see you (redietz) have started a second thread with almost the same title. I have no idea why you would do that.
    Could it be attention whoring !?!? Could it be?!
    It is official. Redietz will never be on Dan Druff's podcast. "too much integrity"

  3. #23
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    The debate isn't whether all or most APs should be anonymous on forums. The question is whether there are reasons for SOME APs to NOT be anonymous on forums. Look no further than Jean Scott or Bob Dancer, both of whose real names are widely known. They've charted a hybrid course through pen names but no real anonymity. Look at Billy Walters. He's employed beards and all that, but his wagers have not exactly been anonymous. And neither is he.
    LOL at you moving the goalposts. A couple of specific APs asked why they should use their name. You didn't give an answer. Yes, it is very possible that some APs somewhere who have something to sell should use their real name. Whoever the fuck that is. But what about the specific generic APs who asked you for a reason? You haven't given one. It would seem using a pseudonym is the proper default play.

    You mention 2 guys who are selling a brand. Then one guy who made it to the very top of the game (Walters) and became famous because of it. Billy Walters isn't posting on forums AFAIK. He is known for totally different reasons. Stupid analogy.

    And you Redietz? You're no Billy Walters.
    Last edited by accountinquestion; 10-31-2022 at 07:19 PM.
    It is official. Redietz will never be on Dan Druff's podcast. "too much integrity"

  4. #24
    Who is William Granoff for 1k Alex !

  5. #25
    Bob Dancer has never published his real name. He was outed by others. Jean Scott was also outed by others. But she did finally publish her real name when she "retired" and moved to Georgia a couple of years ago.

    Which brings up the point that you don't have to fear just casino execs. Other people in the forums would stick a knife in you if they could. Remember what happened to LarryS. MDawg intended to put an end to KJ's blackjack career. That was a viscious move.

    When asked whether I feared casino execs and surveillance I always said I feared the cocktail waitresses, or persons pushing the change carts, or the floor attendents, or the low ranking jackoff security guards that think they are in slot operations, than the people upstairs. Those people working for peanuts get jealous of AP's raking in the cash and they will drop a dime on you in a heartbeat. It's one of the reasons I move around so much. Familiarity breeds comtempt.

    I've even caught the assholes trying to get my name off the card reader when I stuck my card in a machine.
    Last edited by mickeycrimm; 11-01-2022 at 01:39 AM.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  6. #26
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    When asked whether I feared casino execs and surveillance I always said I feared the cocktail waitresses, or persons pushing the change carts, or the floor attendents, or the low ranking jackoff security guards that think they are in slot operations, than the people upstairs. Those people working for peanuts get jealous of AP's raking in the cash and they will drop a dime on you in a heartbeat. It's one of the reasons I move around so much. Familiarity breeds comtempt.
    I've even caught the assholes trying to get my name off the card reader when I stuck my card in a machine.
    +10000000
    I have an extra nameless junk card (not a casino card and not attached to any person) which I use to block the LCD rectangular displays (the ones that are located below the game screen) that can't be closed that is the size of a credit card, for those occasions where I run a card, in order to block off my name. I've seen other hustlers actually block off progressive meters with a card if the meter is small enough to block with a card and if gravity will hold it up there (obviously this is to deter other hustlers and is not a move I ever make) if it is at a place where the low level staff have been told not to kick people out for machine hustling.
    Last edited by tableplay; 11-01-2022 at 02:51 AM.

  7. #27
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Bob Dancer has never published his real name. He was outed by others. Jean Scott was also outed by others. But she did finally publish her real name when she "retired" and moved to Georgia a couple of years ago.

    Which brings up the point that you don't have to fear just casino execs. Other people in the forums would stick a knife in you if they could. Remember what happened to LarryS. MDawg intended to put an end to KJ's blackjack career. That was a viscious move.

    When asked whether I feared casino execs and surveillance I always said I feared the cocktail waitresses, or persons pushing the change carts, or the floor attendents, or the low ranking jackoff security guards that think they are in slot operations, than the people upstairs. Those people working for peanuts get jealous of AP's raking in the cash and they will drop a dime on you in a heartbeat. It's one of the reasons I move around so much. Familiarity breeds comtempt.

    I've even caught the assholes trying to get my name off the card reader when I stuck my card in a machine.
    And Redietz doesn't get any of this shit.

    The stuff Mickey mentions above is probably also the strongest reason to tip the guys who bring you a taxform. Especially if you are a regular.

    THere are so many reasons to not use your name. When asked why we should use our name the best Redietz can proffer is we might want to have a movie made about us.

    This suggests delusions on a grand scale btw.
    It is official. Redietz will never be on Dan Druff's podcast. "too much integrity"

  8. #28
    Nothing suggests nonchalance like opening your own thread with "LOL".

  9. #29
    Originally Posted by accountinquestion View Post
    The stuff Mickey mentions above is probably also the strongest reason to tip the guys who bring you a taxform. Especially if you are a regular.
    I'll tip them for actually helping me out instead of bringing a tax form. In fact, I indeed did this yesterday. I was in a rush to play off free play, but while waiting wanted to cash out a $1027 voucher. I shoved it into a machine with the intention of adding an extra $13 to make it an even $1040 but the panel and display screen was froze up. A first slot attendant called up a tech but I waited over 30 minutes for one to show up. Finally a second slot attendant showed up and just rebooted the machine and was able to cash out.

    Those are reasons for tipping, not hitting jackpots. I even told him that and tossed him a $10 bill.

  10. #30
    I'm steadfast and proud of being a No Tip Bundy. It's been several months now ! Hell I give less then Singer does

  11. #31
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    LOL.

    Sometimes recognizing the obvious is very difficult for some people. In another thread, account let it be known that there are, in his opinion, no good reasons for an "AP" to post under his/her actual name on a forum. He also said that multiple sharp APs agreed with him. I gave him 48 hours to come to obvious conclusions. In lieu of waiting any longer, I'll break this down.

    First, let's assume account is discussing "APs" in general and I'm not one. Now, and he can correct me if I'm wrong, I think he wanted to include me as an "AP." In my post that prompted his response, I explained that people wanting to dive into arbitrage wagering (called "auto-profit" in the old days, before people imported stock market terms to sports wagering circa late '90s) would have to deal with sports books exchanging information and easily seeing that was what the "arbitragers" were doing. Then the sports books would limit them. I assume, perhaps incorrectly, that account was implying that posting under one's name cripples one ability to get money down. I'll get into this in "Accounting Lesson #2."

    For now, gee, why would an "AP" post under his own name when it limits his ability to make money? Take 30 seconds. Here's one answer:

    1) Making maximum money hands-on "AP-ing" is not the optimal financial outcome as opposed to putting your name out there in public as an "AP." For example, if there were indeed dice influencers who were aging and losing skill level, or private game poker players who were aging (thus losing physical stamina, eyesight, and skill), or blackjack players who were aging and losing eyesight, stamina, and skill level, the optimal financial angle may be to put one's name out there and take on students, or sell books, or make videos. Another example would be our own mickey crimm, who grinds it out on the highways of America. Do you think mickey crimm would be better served having a movie made about his life, which would require his real name be public? There are any number of situations where an "AP" would make more money doing things that would require his name be public. It's not for other APs to say he shouldn't do it since he is, by definition, an AP by doing what the percentage move is.

    Here's another:

    2) More important than (1), why would you assume that making maximum money is every AP's top priority and motivation for doing what he/she does? If having a name out there in public decreases that person's income by 10% or 30% or 50%, so what? Perhaps that person has other interests, social needs or preferences, goals, and motivations. To put it in another context, borrowing mickey crimm again, if mickey crimm had some massive settlement from 20 years ago that initially funded all of his AP work, why should he be overly concerned if he wants to interact with people, teach people, have books published under his real name? He shouldn't.

    3) More important than (1) or (2), why would you assume that someone who is an AP wants to be an AP in perpetuity? APing is going to die out. It's a matter of time until your eyeballs get scanned before every casino interaction. If you don't want to be an AP in perpetuity, why not get your name out there and try to make your mark on the world under your actual name? If posting under your actual name promotes you in the non-AP endeavors to which you want to transition, or that are more of a priority in your life, then you should post under your real name.

    (4) Finally, and most important, I think, if APing is what you do best, but you want to make other contributions to society, then becoming expert and then using that expertise as a platform to do other things makes perfect sense. Unless you're a hacker or a porn star (and not really for the porn stars) being anonymous to make your mark on the world doesn't cut it.

    Now all of these are obvious reasons why an AP would post under his or her own name. I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't recognize these reasons after 30 seconds of reflection.

    To think that all APs are about maximizing what's right in front of them, micro financial transaction after micro financial transaction in perpetuity, makes APs sound like the Ferengi from Star Trek Deep Space Nine. Hyper-capitalists so focused on what they do today that they confuse what they do today for who they are.

    Conversely, maybe an AP gets bored with anonymity, or wants to get laid via recognition, or wants to be recognized for having done something difficult as the walls close in on APing. Those are the more profane reasons to use one's real name, but they are still pretty good reasons.
    Because they are not good reasons since all this can be done under a penname/alias/Handel. There's No need or good reason to use your real name on a public forum or social media, for instance, Bob Dancer and Anthony Curtis, Stanford Wong, and many others are not their real names. No one really cares what their real names are. I would say it's actually better to have a catchy name if you're trying to go the public route, kinda like when movie stars change their names.

    I'm all but certain using you're real name vs a pen name/Alias/ Handle isn't going to have much effect on you getting laid, that just some silly grasping-at-straws filler because you can't actually come up with good reasons.


    I can only think of one reason someone(with issues) would want to use their real name and that's because they would be in fear/upset if they thought the kids and friends from high school, childhood and old girlfriends, etc didn't recognize them with an alias.

    I bet if you asked all the former APs who went into the various other gambling ventures if they could've kept their Identity private and continued to do both AP and their public gig they absolutely wished they would've.

    Since the 90's I have been hearing how Advantage Play was soon ending for a bunch of nonsense reasons.

    Every time something new comes along like facial recognition, better slot card tracking, this that, or the other thing. Everyone gets all freaked out and panics.

    Sure, there's been some lulls in various areas at various times, but it always bounces back even better sometimes it's the same type of stuff and sometimes it's something totally different. If you're a one-trick pony then yeah, that person needs to be afraid of various changes, but I doubt that person will have much success in the public sector using his real name or not.

    Whatever technology the casino industries come up with, people will just use that against them. Chances are it's the APs that will use that technology first and by the time the casinos use it, APs will be onto the next thing.

    I think I understand why you're so adamant that people can't make much money via sports betting without some fancy handicrapping and years of targeted experience. That might render your services useless/business model useless.

  12. #32
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Bob Dancer has never published his real name. He was outed by others. Jean Scott was also outed by others. But she did finally publish her real name when she "retired" and moved to Georgia a couple of years ago.

    Which brings up the point that you don't have to fear just casino execs. Other people in the forums would stick a knife in you if they could. Remember what happened to LarryS. MDawg intended to put an end to KJ's blackjack career. That was a viscious move.

    When asked whether I feared casino execs and surveillance I always said I feared the cocktail waitresses, or persons pushing the change carts, or the floor attendents, or the low ranking jackoff security guards that think they are in slot operations, than the people upstairs. Those people working for peanuts get jealous of AP's raking in the cash and they will drop a dime on you in a heartbeat. It's one of the reasons I move around so much. Familiarity breeds comtempt.

    I've even caught the assholes trying to get my name off the card reader when I stuck my card in a machine.
    Agreed.
    Rat Fink Boz admitted to writing letters to Casino Executives.
    I'm sure he is willing to do far worse things to forum members and players alike.

  13. #33
    Originally Posted by monet View Post

    Agreed.
    Rat Fink Boz admitted to writing letters to Casino Executives.
    I'm sure he is willing to do far worse things to forum members and players alike.
    What was in the letters? Where is the source of this accusation? Boz seemed like one of hte more level-headed guys on here. I don't get this.

    BTW IMO Redietz should nap it out on here as agreed for the rest of the year. It is the only right thing to do if he can't come up with one reason.
    It is official. Redietz will never be on Dan Druff's podcast. "too much integrity"

  14. #34
    Originally Posted by monet View Post
    Rat Fink Boz admitted to writing letters to Casino Executives.
    I'm sure he is willing to do far worse things to forum members and players alike.
    Ya know, people tell me that I take these forums too seriously. Monet if you seriously think Boz wrote letters to casino execs "ratting out" Mdog, then YOU are taking these forums way too seriously. AND I don't think you really believe any such thing. Boz was just playing to make a point.

    Boz as much as anyone, well equally as much as some of us, doesn't believe for a second any of the Mdog fantasy story. Mdog isn't winning the money he claims. He is a losing player getting comped accordingly. At best he plays the comp game well. So no winnings, no threat to the casinos, no need for a stockholder in the casinos to be concerned and bring it to anyone's attention.

    Boz was simply just pointing out how absolutely absurd it would be if there was some high limit, whale or mini whale type player, winning as much as Mdog claimed to post all that in such detail, right down to the properties he stays at (comped) and plays in the high limit rooms. Boz was just pointing out how absolutely ridiculous it would be to think this was going on without the casinos involved being aware of it.

    Boz most certainly didn't write letters warning the casinos of something he knew was not real or really happening.

  15. #35
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by monet View Post
    Rat Fink Boz admitted to writing letters to Casino Executives.
    I'm sure he is willing to do far worse things to forum members and players alike.
    Ya know, people tell me that I take these forums too seriously. Monet if you seriously think Boz wrote letters to casino execs "ratting out" Mdog, then YOU are taking these forums way too seriously. AND I don't think you really believe any such thing. Boz was just playing to make a point.

    Boz as much as anyone, well equally as much as some of us, doesn't believe for a second any of the Mdog fantasy story. Mdog isn't winning the money he claims. He is a losing player getting comped accordingly. At best he plays the comp game well. So no winnings, no threat to the casinos, no need for a stockholder in the casinos to be concerned and bring it to anyone's attention.

    Boz was simply just pointing out how absolutely absurd it would be if there was some high limit, whale or mini whale type player, winning as much as Mdog claimed to post all that in such detail, right down to the properties he stays at (comped) and plays in the high limit rooms. Boz was just pointing out how absolutely ridiculous it would be to think this was going on without the casinos involved being aware of it.

    Boz most certainly didn't write letters warning the casinos of something he knew was not real or really happening.
    lol this is one of the better posts you've made Kewlj. Of course it had to be mdawg related I may have heard this before but forgot.

    If Mdawg is winning and comped they know it. At the limits he plays they may very well know if he plays unrated(?) Writing a letter is kinda a waste of time but funny. Doubtful true.

    Monet stop being such a weirdo. Up there with Redietz.
    It is official. Redietz will never be on Dan Druff's podcast. "too much integrity"

  16. #36
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by monet View Post
    Rat Fink Boz admitted to writing letters to Casino Executives.
    I'm sure he is willing to do far worse things to forum members and players alike.
    Ya know, people tell me that I take these forums too seriously. Monet if you seriously think Boz wrote letters to casino execs "ratting out" Mdog, then YOU are taking these forums way too seriously. AND I don't think you really believe any such thing. Boz was just playing to make a point.

    Boz as much as anyone, well equally as much as some of us, doesn't believe for a second any of the Mdog fantasy story. Mdog isn't winning the money he claims. He is a losing player getting comped accordingly. At best he plays the comp game well. So no winnings, no threat to the casinos, no need for a stockholder in the casinos to be concerned and bring it to anyone's attention.

    Boz was simply just pointing out how absolutely absurd it would be if there was some high limit, whale or mini whale type player, winning as much as Mdog claimed to post all that in such detail, right down to the properties he stays at (comped) and plays in the high limit rooms. Boz was just pointing out how absolutely ridiculous it would be to think this was going on without the casinos involved being aware of it.

    Boz most certainly didn't write letters warning the casinos of something he knew was not real or really happening.
    You are in the same boat as you change your name more times than spiderman and you call the internet police on people.
    Who knows what kind of shady shit you are capable of!?

  17. #37
    Originally Posted by monet View Post
    You are in the same boat as you change your name more times than spiderman and you call the internet police on people.
    Who knows what kind of shady shit you are capable of!?
    well, I don't know what you are talking about with the "changed your name" comment. Assuming you mean "handle", I have used a couple sock puppets on forums I was unable to post as KJ or Kewlj. Is that what you are referring to? I hesitate to use sock puppet because people that creates sockpuppets like Singer and Tasha, do so to deceive and also to support the original poster like Singer did with Girlfriday here and Jerry Logan at WoV. I never try to deceive anyone. I go out of my way to make it clear who I am. I just have something I want to say and can't do so under my regular handle. In the case of spiderman, which you frequently bring up I wanted to warn players of a casino that was cheating. Once that was occomplished, I made sure people, including forum owners admin knew who I was. I had no intention of deceiving anyone.

    Now recently at WoV, I created a sock puppet or second identity, fantasylover to comment on Mdogs growing bizarre story. I thought that was funny. I didn't even have to create a second identity, as I was not banned. I did so because I don't give a fuck. That forum is dead as far as a legit gambling forum and I have no intention to return to contribute anything positive. If I have something to say, I will still say it....my way.

    And finally, your comment about internet police. It wasn't the internet police. It was Metro Police here in Vegas. A forum member (from this forum at the time) threatened to find me. He was banned from this forum where you can't be banned. And then two months later showed up at my building trying to get past security. This rises above forum hijinks. This is criminal stuff. AND it wasn't even me that contacted Metro, it was my building security.

  18. #38
    I really don't wish to rehash this incident, especially since the person is now deceased, but it does tie in perfectly as to why no one, should use their real name on such a forum. And that goes 10 x for AP's.

  19. #39
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    let me put it this way: Show me one real AP, that isn't promoting some book, video, boot camp, ect that has used their real name. Everyone we both have mention promoted something at some time or another. So show me one real AP who's focus in entirely on winning money from casinos and not promoting anything that used their real name. If you are able to come up with someone, It will be it was someone from an era long gone. Doing this today for an AP is a death sentence to your AP career. Even if you play recreationally.
    . NotGuilty


    Last edited by JSTAT; 11-01-2022 at 03:49 PM.
    JSTAT on casinos, poker, and blackjack/baccarat card counting without charge. Saying what needs to said at https://twitter.com/Casino_Examiner

  20. #40
    Very fitting that the first 4 words of the JSTAT video are "being a postal worker".

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