Accounting Lesson #1

[JSTAT]

Bonus coverage

[jdaewoo]

Someone let out that troll JSTAT.

[kewlJ]

let me put it this way: Show me one real AP, that isn't promoting some book, video, boot camp, ect that has used their real name. Everyone we both have mention promoted something at some time or another. So show me one real AP who's focus in entirely on winning money from casinos and not promoting anything that used their real name. If you are able to come up with someone, It will be it was someone from an era long gone. Doing this today for an AP is a death sentence to your AP career. Even if you play recreationally.

. NotGuilty

I beg to differ. You have been promoting this JSTAT count as long as I have been a part of these message boards.

I feel bad about hijacking this thread, but at this point I am hijacking the hijack several times over so, I'll just say "sorry redietz".

JSTAT, without turning up the heat and getting nasty by either party, can I ask what the purpose was of you promoting this JSTAT count for like 20 years now, first for blackjack and more recently as a count for baccarat? To your credit, I have never seen you actually market it, unless that was done behind the scenes. Or maybe your promotional efforts just didn't get off the ground to the point that you could market it for profit. Who knows?

I once knew but now forget the exact tags and all of your count. I suspect your count, just like a dozen or more others (probably 2 dozen) does identify some advantageous rounds at blackjack. Almost all (legitimate) counts do to different extents.

So I don't have a problem with you saying your count worked and promoting it. The problem occurred when you falsely claimed that all other counts didn't work, including hi-lo, which 90% of professional players throughout the years including almost all the known teams played.

Anyway, we will see if you want to discuss this civilly.

[accountinquestion]

I feel bad about hijacking this thread, but at this point I am hijacking the hijack several times over so, I'll just say "sorry redietz"..

You have got to be fucking kidding me.

[DGenBen]

Strictly In terms of APing (not life in general) I always thought the Ferengi were good role models.

Ben, as you'll recall, the writers really morphed the Ferengi from their first appearance in Star Trek The Next Generation compared to the Deep Space Nine incarnation of them - initially they acted like little impish cavemen and then, by Deep Space Nine, they were portrayed as wealthy merchants who's main priority was money.

You are right! I totally forgot about that.

When they first showed up they had electric whips or some s&*t like that.

Then towards the end some groups were complaining they were secretly anti-Semitic because they were wealthy merchants, greedy, and had big noses.

Completely forgot about all that stuff.

[AxelWolf]

Redietz,

Let me know when you're done giving good reasons why advantage should use their real names online. Other than to let your former acquaintances know that you're an AP, I haven't seen one yet. Others and I will compile a list of good reasons you shouldn't.

[tableplay]

Strictly In terms of APing (not life in general) I always thought the Ferengi were good role models.

Ben, as you'll recall, the writers really morphed the Ferengi from their first appearance in Star Trek The Next Generation compared to the Deep Space Nine incarnation of them - initially they acted like little impish cavemen and then, by Deep Space Nine, they were portrayed as wealthy merchants who's main priority was money.

You are right! I totally forgot about that.

When they first showed up they had electric whips or some s&*t like that.

Then towards the end some groups were complaining they were secretly anti-Semitic because they were wealthy merchants, greedy, and had big noses.

Completely forgot about all that stuff.

Just a slight difference as you know ;-) - LMFAO at the writers.
Before:
After:

[Treeshade]

When asked whether I feared casino execs and surveillance I always said I feared the cocktail waitresses, or persons pushing the change carts, or the floor attendents, or the low ranking jackoff security guards that think they are in slot operations, than the people upstairs. Those people working for peanuts get jealous of AP's raking in the cash and they will drop a dime on you in a heartbeat. It's one of the reasons I move around so much. Familiarity breeds comtempt.
I've even caught the assholes trying to get my name off the card reader when I stuck my card in a machine.

+10000000
I have an extra nameless junk card (not a casino card and not attached to any person) which I use to block the LCD rectangular displays (the ones that are located below the game screen) that can't be closed that is the size of a credit card, for those occasions where I run a card, in order to block off my name. I've seen other hustlers actually block off progressive meters with a card if the meter is small enough to block with a card and if gravity will hold it up there (obviously this is to deter other hustlers and is not a move I ever make) if it is at a place where the low level staff have been told not to kick people out for machine hustling.

Wait until you have to pay others to run your cards because the low level hustlers are so jelly they can’t wait to rat you out for nothing. All the information sharing has resulted in cannibalization. Far less plays for the low level slot hustler so they now turn into rats.

I had a casino hustling team try this on me a few years ago now. They told me if I continue to run cards in the casino they would go to management. I kindly responded that if they did this it would mark the end of their fragile perceived dominance over this local casino. I even tried to explain to them that my crew would be moving on from the area in a few months. They didn’t listen, and lost. I now have a permanent residency set up there until this day. That team is no longer together. Moral of the story don’t be a rat. Worry about yourself. Go make money

[Treeshade]

LOL.

Sometimes recognizing the obvious is very difficult for some people. In another thread, account let it be known that there are, in his opinion, no good reasons for an "AP" to post under his/her actual name on a forum. He also said that multiple sharp APs agreed with him. I gave him 48 hours to come to obvious conclusions. In lieu of waiting any longer, I'll break this down.

First, let's assume account is discussing "APs" in general and I'm not one. Now, and he can correct me if I'm wrong, I think he wanted to include me as an "AP." In my post that prompted his response, I explained that people wanting to dive into arbitrage wagering (called "auto-profit" in the old days, before people imported stock market terms to sports wagering circa late '90s) would have to deal with sports books exchanging information and easily seeing that was what the "arbitragers" were doing. Then the sports books would limit them. I assume, perhaps incorrectly, that account was implying that posting under one's name cripples one ability to get money down. I'll get into this in "Accounting Lesson #2."

For now, gee, why would an "AP" post under his own name when it limits his ability to make money? Take 30 seconds. Here's one answer:

1) Making maximum money hands-on "AP-ing" is not the optimal financial outcome as opposed to putting your name out there in public as an "AP." For example, if there were indeed dice influencers who were aging and losing skill level, or private game poker players who were aging (thus losing physical stamina, eyesight, and skill), or blackjack players who were aging and losing eyesight, stamina, and skill level, the optimal financial angle may be to put one's name out there and take on students, or sell books, or make videos. Another example would be our own mickey crimm, who grinds it out on the highways of America. Do you think mickey crimm would be better served having a movie made about his life, which would require his real name be public? There are any number of situations where an "AP" would make more money doing things that would require his name be public. It's not for other APs to say he shouldn't do it since he is, by definition, an AP by doing what the percentage move is.

Here's another:

2) More important than (1), why would you assume that making maximum money is every AP's top priority and motivation for doing what he/she does? If having a name out there in public decreases that person's income by 10% or 30% or 50%, so what? Perhaps that person has other interests, social needs or preferences, goals, and motivations. To put it in another context, borrowing mickey crimm again, if mickey crimm had some massive settlement from 20 years ago that initially funded all of his AP work, why should he be overly concerned if he wants to interact with people, teach people, have books published under his real name? He shouldn't.

3) More important than (1) or (2), why would you assume that someone who is an AP wants to be an AP in perpetuity? APing is going to die out. It's a matter of time until your eyeballs get scanned before every casino interaction. If you don't want to be an AP in perpetuity, why not get your name out there and try to make your mark on the world under your actual name? If posting under your actual name promotes you in the non-AP endeavors to which you want to transition, or that are more of a priority in your life, then you should post under your real name.

(4) Finally, and most important, I think, if APing is what you do best, but you want to make other contributions to society, then becoming expert and then using that expertise as a platform to do other things makes perfect sense. Unless you're a hacker or a porn star (and not really for the porn stars) being anonymous to make your mark on the world doesn't cut it.

Now all of these are obvious reasons why an AP would post under his or her own name. I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't recognize these reasons after 30 seconds of reflection.

To think that all APs are about maximizing what's right in front of them, micro financial transaction after micro financial transaction in perpetuity, makes APs sound like the Ferengi from Star Trek Deep Space Nine. Hyper-capitalists so focused on what they do today that they confuse what they do today for who they are.

Conversely, maybe an AP gets bored with anonymity, or wants to get laid via recognition, or wants to be recognized for having done something difficult as the walls close in on APing. Those are the more profane reasons to use one's real name, but they are still pretty good reasons.

Unless you want to be a gambling influencer then none of your points make much sense. A successful AP can take their winnings and invest in many different things. Real estate, or small businesses startups. I like hard money lending, and real estate. I also invest in small businesses. I can do all this through trust, and different business structures that keep you pretty anonymous. Not everyone wants to be a TikTok star, or sell picks.

[AxelWolf]

LOL.

Sometimes recognizing the obvious is very difficult for some people. In another thread, account let it be known that there are, in his opinion, no good reasons for an "AP" to post under his/her actual name on a forum. He also said that multiple sharp APs agreed with him. I gave him 48 hours to come to obvious conclusions. In lieu of waiting any longer, I'll break this down.

First, let's assume account is discussing "APs" in general and I'm not one. Now, and he can correct me if I'm wrong, I think he wanted to include me as an "AP." In my post that prompted his response, I explained that people wanting to dive into arbitrage wagering (called "auto-profit" in the old days, before people imported stock market terms to sports wagering circa late '90s) would have to deal with sports books exchanging information and easily seeing that was what the "arbitragers" were doing. Then the sports books would limit them. I assume, perhaps incorrectly, that account was implying that posting under one's name cripples one ability to get money down. I'll get into this in "Accounting Lesson #2."

For now, gee, why would an "AP" post under his own name when it limits his ability to make money? Take 30 seconds. Here's one answer:

1) Making maximum money hands-on "AP-ing" is not the optimal financial outcome as opposed to putting your name out there in public as an "AP." For example, if there were indeed dice influencers who were aging and losing skill level, or private game poker players who were aging (thus losing physical stamina, eyesight, and skill), or blackjack players who were aging and losing eyesight, stamina, and skill level, the optimal financial angle may be to put one's name out there and take on students, or sell books, or make videos. Another example would be our own mickey crimm, who grinds it out on the highways of America. Do you think mickey crimm would be better served having a movie made about his life, which would require his real name be public? There are any number of situations where an "AP" would make more money doing things that would require his name be public. It's not for other APs to say he shouldn't do it since he is, by definition, an AP by doing what the percentage move is.

Here's another:

2) More important than (1), why would you assume that making maximum money is every AP's top priority and motivation for doing what he/she does? If having a name out there in public decreases that person's income by 10% or 30% or 50%, so what? Perhaps that person has other interests, social needs or preferences, goals, and motivations. To put it in another context, borrowing mickey crimm again, if mickey crimm had some massive settlement from 20 years ago that initially funded all of his AP work, why should he be overly concerned if he wants to interact with people, teach people, have books published under his real name? He shouldn't.

3) More important than (1) or (2), why would you assume that someone who is an AP wants to be an AP in perpetuity? APing is going to die out. It's a matter of time until your eyeballs get scanned before every casino interaction. If you don't want to be an AP in perpetuity, why not get your name out there and try to make your mark on the world under your actual name? If posting under your actual name promotes you in the non-AP endeavors to which you want to transition, or that are more of a priority in your life, then you should post under your real name.

(4) Finally, and most important, I think, if APing is what you do best, but you want to make other contributions to society, then becoming expert and then using that expertise as a platform to do other things makes perfect sense. Unless you're a hacker or a porn star (and not really for the porn stars) being anonymous to make your mark on the world doesn't cut it.

Now all of these are obvious reasons why an AP would post under his or her own name. I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't recognize these reasons after 30 seconds of reflection.

To think that all APs are about maximizing what's right in front of them, micro financial transaction after micro financial transaction in perpetuity, makes APs sound like the Ferengi from Star Trek Deep Space Nine. Hyper-capitalists so focused on what they do today that they confuse what they do today for who they are.

Conversely, maybe an AP gets bored with anonymity, or wants to get laid via recognition, or wants to be recognized for having done something difficult as the walls close in on APing. Those are the more profane reasons to use one's real name, but they are still pretty good reasons.

Unless you want to be a gambling influencer then none of your points make much sense. A successful AP can take their winnings and invest in many different things. Real estate, or small businesses startups. I like hard money lending, and real estate. I also invest in small businesses. I can do all this through trust, and different business structures that keep you pretty anonymous. Not everyone wants to be a TikTok star, or sell picks.

You DON'T have to use your god-given name to achieve any of that, it can all be done with an alias/penname. Again, I haven't seen a legit reason, other than what I pointed out, and that's a super lame reason.

[tableplay]

When asked whether I feared casino execs and surveillance I always said I feared the cocktail waitresses, or persons pushing the change carts, or the floor attendents, or the low ranking jackoff security guards that think they are in slot operations, than the people upstairs. Those people working for peanuts get jealous of AP's raking in the cash and they will drop a dime on you in a heartbeat. It's one of the reasons I move around so much. Familiarity breeds comtempt.
I've even caught the assholes trying to get my name off the card reader when I stuck my card in a machine.

+10000000
I have an extra nameless junk card (not a casino card and not attached to any person) which I use to block the LCD rectangular displays (the ones that are located below the game screen) that can't be closed that is the size of a credit card, for those occasions where I run a card, in order to block off my name. I've seen other hustlers actually block off progressive meters with a card if the meter is small enough to block with a card and if gravity will hold it up there (obviously this is to deter other hustlers and is not a move I ever make) if it is at a place where the low level staff have been told not to kick people out for machine hustling.

Wait until you have to pay others to run your cards because the low level hustlers are so jelly they can’t wait to rat you out for nothing. All the information sharing has resulted in cannibalization. Far less plays for the low level slot hustler so they now turn into rats.

I had a casino hustling team try this on me a few years ago now. They told me if I continue to run cards in the casino they would go to management. I kindly responded that if they did this it would mark the end of their fragile perceived dominance over this local casino. I even tried to explain to them that my crew would be moving on from the area in a few months. They didn’t listen, and lost. I now have a permanent residency set up there until this day. That team is no longer together. Moral of the story don’t be a rat. Worry about yourself. Go make money

Great points. Along those lines of information sharing, I noticed someone put up a youtube channel called Advantage Slots, the content of which is about all the low level stuff you are referring to which really adds fuel to the fire. Some of these guys even offer to buy you a burner phone and offer to pay you to let them know about plays. No phones, no names, no phone numbers. For people that can blaze their own path, it is the worst fucking idea in the world to give away one's identity.

[DGenBen]

Ben, as you'll recall, the writers really morphed the Ferengi from their first appearance in Star Trek The Next Generation compared to the Deep Space Nine incarnation of them - initially they acted like little impish cavemen and then, by Deep Space Nine, they were portrayed as wealthy merchants who's main priority was money.

You are right! I totally forgot about that.

When they first showed up they had electric whips or some s&*t like that.

Then towards the end some groups were complaining they were secretly anti-Semitic because they were wealthy merchants, greedy, and had big noses.

Completely forgot about all that stuff.

Just a slight difference as you know ;-) - LMFAO at the writers.
Before:
After:

LMAO!

Best Trek Gambling scene.

Tex “Heyyyy, yer not one of them card countin’ fellars are ya?”

Data “The number of cards and their values remain quite constant. What would be the purpose in counting them?”

[tableplay]

LMAO!

Best Trek Gambling scene.

Tex “Heyyyy, yer not one of them card countin’ fellars are ya?”

Data “The number of cards and their values remain quite constant. What would be the purpose in counting them?”

It was nice of the dealer to let Data handle the deck of cards used in the game. Thanks for the link to the funny scene Ben.