The Alan thread.

[coach belly]

If that makes me a terrible person, so be it.

LOL...yes, blame it on the math...it's the math.

[kewlJ]

If that makes me a terrible person, so be it.

LOL...yes, blame it on the math...it's the math.

It IS all about the math! The people I challenge and fight with are people making claims that defy the math. Claims of winning with "special plays" and progression systems. Claims of winning by "betting into streaks" and simply because they have a large bankroll that somehow magically overcomes negative expectation. Now Alan, to his credit didn't claim winning by these methods. To his credit, he was honest about being a losing player, but he still for years, decades even, promoted complete nonsense like "quitting while a head" as a winning strategy. And the single biggest thing that he is known for is a claim of 18 y.o in a row that completely defies the math.

90% of the people I fight with it IS about the math. Moses was the exception. My fights with Moses were not about the math. His math and application concerning blackjack was sound. I happened to disagree with it, in that his approach was overkill as far as current conditions, but a player could win using the approach moses believed in. It was within the math. The argument with moses was the place he claimed, just would not and does not allow players to play the stakes and time necessary to achieve what he claimed. So while 90% is strictly about the math, there is a small part that I argue is not the way it works...not the reality of the way the casino industry or a place like Reno works. And there is some of that going on with Mdawg too. What he claims is not the way Las Vegas works. That is the people I challenge and call out.

Now I do fight with people that challenge and call out me and other AP's. These people I call anti-AP. Some of them are the same people making the claims that defy math, but others like you, it is less clear why you spend your life trolling and trying to discredit, not just me, but all AP's. I suspect most are losing players that despise that there are players that actually win (long-term) using the math and AP techniques. There also may be some pro-casino industry people, including people that work for the casinos or have family members that work for the casinos within this anti-AP crowd.

But that too really comes back to the math, so yeah, it is ALL about the math.

[coach belly]

so yeah, it is ALL about the math.

Made up stories, scenarios and accusations about others, be they dead or alive, has nothing to do with math.

This includes falsely accusing other members of crimes.

From what I read on Wattenberg's forum, you've been doing that since long before you darkened Alan's forum.

You are mentally ill, suffering from a personality disorder, incapable of posting truthfully.

Deep down you are a terrible human. It shows through time and time again.

[mcap]

Kewlj:

When literally everyone is telling you the same thing, they just might have a point. Not sure how you would have enjoyed it if someone was continuously shoving the flaws of your deceased spouse in your face continuously shortly after he passed, but you deserve to know that feeling if you don't get it yet.

[kewlJ]

so yeah, it is ALL about the math.

Made up stories, scenarios and accusations about others, be they dead or alive, has nothing to do with math.

This includes falsely accusing other members of crimes.

From what I read on Wattenberg's forum, you've been doing that since long before you darkened Alan's forum.

You are mentally ill, suffering from a personality disorder, incapable of posting truthfully.

Deep down you are a terrible human. It shows through time and time again.

This is a perfect example of a hater, hating and lying.

My issue on Norm's forum were very singular. I challenged a guy who claimed up to a 5% advantage in card counting using his "super duper" count. It is impossible to gain such an advantage. Even if a player had a computer sitting right there on the felt of a blackjack table, it is impossible to gain such an advantage via card counting. So it was absolutely about the math! AND the person I challenged, the poster who went by Tthree or T3, several years later at BJinfo, admitted that his claims on Norm's forum were erroneous. His excuse was that the claims were based on a small sample size of part of his first year playing that "super duper" count and as time went on and he accumulated more play, his results came back down to earth. I accepted his excuse and apology.

Again, all my challenges, arguing and fighting are about the math. Maybe I am over-zealous about it, but that is what it is about.

Meanwhile YOU were banned from WoV for "years of lying and trolling", if I am not mistaken. And on this very forum, while you have not been banned, the owner, Dan Druff went out of his way to label you a liar, saying that you don't even believe the things you lie about.

I am not familiar with you on other forums (outside of WoV, here and GF), but am told it is more of the same, lies and attacks directed at AP's. So I am not sure what your deal is, nor care. You are just another anti-AP, angry dude. My guess life long losing player.

And now I am off to bed. And I will not bother with you when I wake up.

[coach belly]

My issue on Norm's forum were very singular.

KJ falsely accused four people of criminal fraud over 800 times on nine forums based on zero evidence simply because he doesn't like the way they play. He has sworn that he will continue to post his attacks for 50 years after the death of two forum admins that barred him.

The man talks about the death of two forum admins who have banned him. Who does that?

He's been doing this for years hundreds of times on sites where the victims of his hate are not allowed or don't even know about. He even slandered another admin on the Las Vegas paper editor's page and sent crap to a house where he thought he lived. He posted vast numbers of false accusations of federal crimes on ZZ (an extremist anti-Semitic site) claiming that we could answer. A lie.

He viciously attacked, for years, multiple people claiming that they committed fraud. Shack has contributed more to newbies than just about anyone in the field, and has been a KJ victim in hundreds of posts.

His posts in this thread are all outright, fantastical lies.

He has caused more damage to the AP community than any other person, including the Fight Club group in the days of the AP forum wars. The damage continues to this day, after years.

[smurgerburger]

I wonder if anyone has broken the unfortunate news to Alan's paralegal yet?

I do hope he continues his participation in the forum.

[kewlJ]

KJ falsely accused four people of criminal fraud over 800 times on nine forums based on zero evidence simply because he doesn't like the way they play. He has sworn that he will continue to post his attacks for 50 years after the death of two forum admins that barred him.

The man talks about the death of two forum admins who have banned him. Who does that?.....

Seriously?!? You want to get into Norm and force me to respond? Are you even familiar with Norm Wattenberger and what this was really all about or did you just go searching for someone that had something negative to say about me? I am guessing the latter because you look really stupid and silly in the eyes of any real blackjack players and real members of the blackjack community that are familiar with Norm and know what this is all about.

This quote is a microcosm of Norman. He has feuded with many prominent blackjack players and authors over the years, so I am in good company. Norman always thinks everyone is out to get him. Everyone is always committing this crime or that felony against him. He threatens to sue everyone for slander and liable and copyright this and that and every other thing under the sun, including other forum owners. At Gambling Forums, back when myself and mickey and some of the other AP's were there, Norm showed up posting very fittingly as "victim". By the time Victim was finished posting he had threatened to sue several members and the owner of the forum. Very, very typical Norm. If you want to know the truth about Norm, I suggest you ask some real blackjack players, past or present, that were members of his forum. There are even a few here, you could ask. JBJB, want to weigh in on Norm? James, if you are reading? Mickeycrimm even participated at Norm's forum for a bit.

Again, my issues with Norm were really very singular. It was about the guy T3 making claims that defied the math. I felt, and still do and have been very consistent that forum owners or administrators such as Norm or Shackleford, or even Dan Druff here, people that aren't just some guy running a forum, but blackjack and/or gambling math guys, people that know, understand and have made a name for themselves based on the mathematics of gambling, have a responsibility to call out members of their forum making Bullshit claims and or promoting BS and voodoo gambling theories. They are providing the platform, they have that responsibility.

But there is a conflict with these guys, because once they get into running forums there is the issue of traffic generated. And these BS claims and guys draw traffic and views, so the forum owner part of these guys doesn't want to shut it down. In the case of Norms forum this guy making the claims that defied math had 15,000 posts, when no one else on the forum had 4000. So the forum owner (Norm) doesn't want to shut down the leading poster, even though he KNOWS the claims are BS. I believe similar is currently going on at WoV currently with this Mdog. Wizard knows! He even violated the agreement not to say anything once and told everyone exactly what he thought of Mdawg's claims. He had to delete it as per agreement, but he got it out there.

So that is all I have to say about Norm. I am over the Norm feud. My issue was a guy making claims that couldn't be and Norm not doing enough to challenge those claims. Claims by the way that the guy who made them has since admitted were wrong. End of my Norm comments. I hope he is well and somehow happy, although he seems like a guy to me that is never happy.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now I will address these ZZ charges. When Blackjackinfo was owned by Ken Smith (I joined in 2006, it shut down in 2011), there was a member that went by Zengrifter. I am sure the blackjack guys know all about Zengrifter. Full disclosure, he went to Fed prison for some kind of white collar crime in which he made millions. I don't know the details of that, but know a lot of people held it against him. So Zengrifter was a very knowledgeable blackjack player. I don't think he ever played professionally, but I don't even know. All I know is I learned some valuable things from him. Things like opposition wagering and spreading both ways which makes a player very hard to track as far as raising bets. Things that I have used here in Vegas that really contributed greatly to my longevity.

Anyway, besides his blackjack knowledge, Zengrifter was quite an odd character. He had unpopular opinions about almost everything under the sun. Rather than clog up the blackjack discussion with all Zengrifter's non-blackjack opinions and thoughts, Ken created a subsection called the Zenzone which Zengrifter was free to share all his weirdness. It would be like if Dan Druff created a subsection for mickeycrimm and his non-AP thoughts or Monet or accountinquestion and their off topic thoughts and opinions. That is what Zenzone was.

When Ken Smith shutdown blackjackinfo in 2011, he either sold or gave the zenzone section to Zengrifter and it became a seperate forum. There was a blackjack section at the zenzone forum, which is the only section I ever participated at. There was a nasty guy, I forget his name that posted anti-semitic rants in some of the other sections, but that had nothing to do with me. But Norm likes to repeatedly say, I was a member of an anti-semetic hate forum. It would be like calling this a racist forum and anyone that participates here a racist because Singer has made some racist rants at times. It is and or was very dishonest of Norm.

But again, don't take my word for it, ask any real blackjack players or players that were members of Norm's forum and ask what they think of him, excluding Shackleford and Don Schlesinger who call Norm a friend.

Now I don't suppose this will change anything. You, coach belly will never stop lying digging things up out of context trying with all your might to discredit me. Your hate has no boundaries.

[jbjb]

[Treeshade]

Kew People may mess with you for the Lolz, but deep down you are a terrible human. It shows through time and time again.

Seedvalue, I make a living based on the math, just as you and many other AP's do. I believe that this forum run by a professional poker player who is all about the math and WoV, run by a guy who is supposed to be a gambling math expert and these two forums populated by players that are AP's at different levels, should be different than youtube and the other sites that have all those people outright scamming and promoting BS and gambling voodoo that defy the math. The truth and the math has to matter at some point and at some place.

If that makes me a terrible person, so be it.

The man is dead it’s not about the math anymore. Let it go

[coach belly]

You, coach belly will never stop lying digging things up out of context

I didn't lie about you, or search, or dig anything up...I just clicked onto a link from GF.

The false accusations, slander and lies are things that you did, not me.

I notice that you didn't deny any of it.

And that's just one example of your perversion,
you continue making things up about other members, dead or alive, across multiple forums.

You're a sicko, incapable of posting truthfully.

[kewlJ]

If you don't like the accusations, stop hosting sleepovers with the Jr High boys basketball team.

[monet]

Seriously?!? You want to get into Norm and force me to respond? Are you even familiar with Norm Wattenberger and what this was really all about or did you just go searching for someone that had something negative to say about me? I am guessing the latter because you look really stupid and silly in the eyes of any real blackjack players and real members of the blackjack community that are familiar with Norm and know what this is all about.

This quote is a microcosm of Norman. He has feuded with many prominent blackjack players and authors over the years, so I am in good company. Norman always thinks everyone is out to get him. Everyone is always committing this crime or that felony against him. He threatens to sue everyone for slander and liable and copyright this and that and every other thing under the sun, including other forum owners. At Gambling Forums, back when myself and mickey and some of the other AP's were there, Norm showed up posting very fittingly as "victim". By the time Victim was finished posting he had threatened to sue several members and the owner of the forum. Very, very typical Norm. If you want to know the truth about Norm, I suggest you ask some real blackjack players, past or present, that were members of his forum. There are even a few here, you could ask. JBJB, want to weigh in on Norm? James, if you are reading? Mickeycrimm even participated at Norm's forum for a bit.

Again, my issues with Norm were really very singular. It was about the guy T3 making claims that defied the math. I felt, and still do and have been very consistent that forum owners or administrators such as Norm or Shackleford, or even Dan Druff here, people that aren't just some guy running a forum, but blackjack and/or gambling math guys, people that know, understand and have made a name for themselves based on the mathematics of gambling, have a responsibility to call out members of their forum making Bullshit claims and or promoting BS and voodoo gambling theories. They are providing the platform, they have that responsibility.

But there is a conflict with these guys, because once they get into running forums there is the issue of traffic generated. And these BS claims and guys draw traffic and views, so the forum owner part of these guys doesn't want to shut it down. In the case of Norms forum this guy making the claims that defied math had 15,000 posts, when no one else on the forum had 4000. So the forum owner (Norm) doesn't want to shut down the leading poster, even though he KNOWS the claims are BS. I believe similar is currently going on at WoV currently with this Mdog. Wizard knows! He even violated the agreement not to say anything once and told everyone exactly what he thought of Mdawg's claims. He had to delete it as per agreement, but he got it out there.

So that is all I have to say about Norm. I am over the Norm feud. My issue was a guy making claims that couldn't be and Norm not doing enough to challenge those claims. Claims by the way that the guy who made them has since admitted were wrong. End of my Norm comments. I hope he is well and somehow happy, although he seems like a guy to me that is never happy.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now I will address these ZZ charges. When Blackjackinfo was owned by Ken Smith (I joined in 2006, it shut down in 2011), there was a member that went by Zengrifter. I am sure the blackjack guys know all about Zengrifter. Full disclosure, he went to Fed prison for some kind of white collar crime in which he made millions. I don't know the details of that, but know a lot of people held it against him. So Zengrifter was a very knowledgeable blackjack player. I don't think he ever played professionally, but I don't even know. All I know is I learned some valuable things from him. Things like opposition wagering and spreading both ways which makes a player very hard to track as far as raising bets. Things that I have used here in Vegas that really contributed greatly to my longevity.

Anyway, besides his blackjack knowledge, Zengrifter was quite an odd character. He had unpopular opinions about almost everything under the sun. Rather than clog up the blackjack discussion with all Zengrifter's non-blackjack opinions and thoughts, Ken created a subsection called the Zenzone which Zengrifter was free to share all his weirdness. It would be like if Dan Druff created a subsection for mickeycrimm and his non-AP thoughts or Monet or accountinquestion and their off topic thoughts and opinions. That is what Zenzone was.

When Ken Smith shutdown blackjackinfo in 2011, he either sold or gave the zenzone section to Zengrifter and it became a seperate forum. There was a blackjack section at the zenzone forum, which is the only section I ever participated at. There was a nasty guy, I forget his name that posted anti-semitic rants in some of the other sections, but that had nothing to do with me. But Norm likes to repeatedly say, I was a member of an anti-semetic hate forum. It would be like calling this a racist forum and anyone that participates here a racist because Singer has made some racist rants at times. It is and or was very dishonest of Norm.

But again, don't take my word for it, ask any real blackjack players or players that were members of Norm's forum and ask what they think of him, excluding Shackleford and Don Schlesinger who call Norm a friend.

Now I don't suppose this will change anything. You, coach belly will never stop lying digging things up out of context trying with all your might to discredit me. Your hate has no boundaries.

998 word reply.
You couldn't fit in 2 more words??
You are losing your mind today with your posting at the Hate Site that you Swore Off multiple times.

[jbjb]

Seriously?!? You want to get into Norm and force me to respond? Are you even familiar with Norm Wattenberger and what this was really all about or did you just go searching for someone that had something negative to say about me? I am guessing the latter because you look really stupid and silly in the eyes of any real blackjack players and real members of the blackjack community that are familiar with Norm and know what this is all about.

This quote is a microcosm of Norman. He has feuded with many prominent blackjack players and authors over the years, so I am in good company. Norman always thinks everyone is out to get him. Everyone is always committing this crime or that felony against him. He threatens to sue everyone for slander and liable and copyright this and that and every other thing under the sun, including other forum owners. At Gambling Forums, back when myself and mickey and some of the other AP's were there, Norm showed up posting very fittingly as "victim". By the time Victim was finished posting he had threatened to sue several members and the owner of the forum. Very, very typical Norm. If you want to know the truth about Norm, I suggest you ask some real blackjack players, past or present, that were members of his forum. There are even a few here, you could ask. JBJB, want to weigh in on Norm? James, if you are reading? Mickeycrimm even participated at Norm's forum for a bit.

Again, my issues with Norm were really very singular. It was about the guy T3 making claims that defied the math. I felt, and still do and have been very consistent that forum owners or administrators such as Norm or Shackleford, or even Dan Druff here, people that aren't just some guy running a forum, but blackjack and/or gambling math guys, people that know, understand and have made a name for themselves based on the mathematics of gambling, have a responsibility to call out members of their forum making Bullshit claims and or promoting BS and voodoo gambling theories. They are providing the platform, they have that responsibility.

But there is a conflict with these guys, because once they get into running forums there is the issue of traffic generated. And these BS claims and guys draw traffic and views, so the forum owner part of these guys doesn't want to shut it down. In the case of Norms forum this guy making the claims that defied math had 15,000 posts, when no one else on the forum had 4000. So the forum owner (Norm) doesn't want to shut down the leading poster, even though he KNOWS the claims are BS. I believe similar is currently going on at WoV currently with this Mdog. Wizard knows! He even violated the agreement not to say anything once and told everyone exactly what he thought of Mdawg's claims. He had to delete it as per agreement, but he got it out there.

So that is all I have to say about Norm. I am over the Norm feud. My issue was a guy making claims that couldn't be and Norm not doing enough to challenge those claims. Claims by the way that the guy who made them has since admitted were wrong. End of my Norm comments. I hope he is well and somehow happy, although he seems like a guy to me that is never happy.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now I will address these ZZ charges. When Blackjackinfo was owned by Ken Smith (I joined in 2006, it shut down in 2011), there was a member that went by Zengrifter. I am sure the blackjack guys know all about Zengrifter. Full disclosure, he went to Fed prison for some kind of white collar crime in which he made millions. I don't know the details of that, but know a lot of people held it against him. So Zengrifter was a very knowledgeable blackjack player. I don't think he ever played professionally, but I don't even know. All I know is I learned some valuable things from him. Things like opposition wagering and spreading both ways which makes a player very hard to track as far as raising bets. Things that I have used here in Vegas that really contributed greatly to my longevity.

Anyway, besides his blackjack knowledge, Zengrifter was quite an odd character. He had unpopular opinions about almost everything under the sun. Rather than clog up the blackjack discussion with all Zengrifter's non-blackjack opinions and thoughts, Ken created a subsection called the Zenzone which Zengrifter was free to share all his weirdness. It would be like if Dan Druff created a subsection for mickeycrimm and his non-AP thoughts or Monet or accountinquestion and their off topic thoughts and opinions. That is what Zenzone was.

When Ken Smith shutdown blackjackinfo in 2011, he either sold or gave the zenzone section to Zengrifter and it became a seperate forum. There was a blackjack section at the zenzone forum, which is the only section I ever participated at. There was a nasty guy, I forget his name that posted anti-semitic rants in some of the other sections, but that had nothing to do with me. But Norm likes to repeatedly say, I was a member of an anti-semetic hate forum. It would be like calling this a racist forum and anyone that participates here a racist because Singer has made some racist rants at times. It is and or was very dishonest of Norm.

But again, don't take my word for it, ask any real blackjack players or players that were members of Norm's forum and ask what they think of him, excluding Shackleford and Don Schlesinger who call Norm a friend.

Now I don't suppose this will change anything. You, coach belly will never stop lying digging things up out of context trying with all your might to discredit me. Your hate has no boundaries.

998 word reply.
You couldn't fit in 2 more words??
You are losing your mind today with your posting at the Hate Site that you Swore Off multiple times.

I thought ZenZone was kaput?

[jdaewoo]

KJ might be wrong on this, but Coach Cunt is wrong on literally everything he's ever posted here. He knows absolutely nothing about gambling.

[coach belly]

KJ might be wrong on this

Get off my dick, faggot...you're a nobody here, there and everywhere.

I've won more money gambling than you can possibly fathom.

I could buy and sell you, just like any other piece of trash.

Try me, if you have any doubts or the courage.

[kewlJ]

KJ might be wrong on this

Get off my dick, faggot...you're a nobody here, there and everywhere.

I've won more money gambling than you can possibly fathom.

I could buy and sell you, just like any other piece of trash.

Try me, if you have any doubts or the courage.

Yeah right, YOU have won more money gambling than he could possibly fathom. What a joke! You have never on any forum as far as I know demonstrated even the slightest bit of knowledge that would lend to you being a winning player. You have done nothing except troll legitimate advantage players and winning players for...ever. I strongly suspect you are just another very bitter life long losing player.

And that is exactly my point with Alan. These guys are anti-AP. Alan was a member of that club. They spend years attacking and trying to discredit legitimate AP's. Yes, Alan was a little better, a little less attacking in his attempts to discredit than some of these guys. And he was honest about his own results. I always give him that. But he still was very anti-AP, seemed to dislike and tried very hard to discredit winning advantage players.

Just because there was a somewhat likeable quality to Alan, and I even liked him to some extent, doesn't change this. He attempted to discredit me since the day I joined this forum. I am sorry he passed. But that doesn't change these facts.

Rob Singer attacked at least 3 different spouses of members of this forum after they had passed, Arci, Redietz and myself, saying some of the most vile things I have ever seen and nobody said much, including you Dan Druff. But I point out that Alan was anti-AP and did everything in his power to discredit players and I am the bad guy. Give me a fucking break!

But since my mentioning this has so many upset that want to pretend Alan was a great and fair guy, I will not mention it again. Rest in Peace Alan.

[coach belly]

You have never on any forum as far as I know demonstrated even the slightest bit of knowledge that would lend to you being a winning player

That means that I'm smart, I keep my mouth shut.

But that doesn't make me anti-AP, and I'm not.

I've never attacked or discredited anyone for their casino action,
I question and criticize their forum actions...the tone and veracity of what they have written.

Another difference that your mental illness prevents you from understanding.

[coach belly]

He attempted to discredit me since the day I joined this forum.

Another disparaging lie about a deceased member.

Alan initially wrote this...

I'm glad kewlj is posting here.

Then, he dutifully tried to confirm what you had written, and you attacked his credibility.

So it was you that attempted to discredit him since the day you joined this forum.

This is another example of how you make up scenarios, and present them as truth.

I got all this from a link that you provided earlier in this thread...

https://vegascasinotalk.com/forum/sh...-Rebate/page18

Read it and weep...you'll see who the bad guy is.

[acescracked_1210]

Just a quick reminder that after all the blather, there's only ONE poster in this thread who takes himself so seriously that he felt the need to fake his own death on a gambling forum. Perfectly reasonable thing to do, of course, and he has a *perfectly reasonable* explanation for it, just as he has air-tight explanations for all the other bad behavior he's engaged in in these spaces over a VERY long period of time.