Professional Sportsbetting

[mickeycrimm]

From adversaries to Mickey becoming Redietz' publicity and appearance agent, perhaps we can all find a way to get along here, after all. JK

Rediettz and I don't really have a disagreement. I'm not schooled enough on sports betting to have an educated opinion on whether or not "advantage players betting off-market lines and odds" and "taking advantage of weak numbers" can be done profitably.

Redietz' opinion is it can't be done profitably. That's his opinion and that's fine. But should we just take his word for it or further investigate? I think we should further investigate. We need more information and opinions than just redietz.

So far I've found Frank B and Spanky who say it's not just possible but they've been doing it for years.

So the score so far is....

Other Sports Bettors 2
Redietz 1

Now I'm investigating other professional sports bettors like Krakomberger, Denkelson, Fortuna, and anyone else I can find.

[tableplay]

[mickeycrimm]

Redietz, I have a response from Bob Dancer. I had sent him what you wrote about appearing on GWAE. I didn't change a word. I copied and pasted it. He's concerned about whether you intend to trash sports bettors who have previously appeared on the show. If you don't intend to do that then he will clear it with Richard.

If it's a go then I'll put you in email contact with Bob. I've been on the show 3 times so I know the drill. He will ask you for a list of things to talk about, and he may have some suggestions of his own, so he can formulate the questions. When the list of topics is agreed upon they will do the interview.

I also told him you appear to be a world class handicapper with a rich history in sportsbetting. So do us all a favor and don't trash us lowlife VCT AP's either.

It would be a go with the caveat that I would like to do "in studio" in Las Vegas in person. That way I get to meet the principals involved. I prefer doing these things in person when possible.

I have to get to LV a couple of times in the next four months or so anyway because I'm likely going to do a tour guide thing for a documentary filmmaker who is strictly an East Coast mob expert, but who is unfamiliar with details of Las Vegas. So hopefully I can dovetail the two. If not, I'll do the tour-guide thing later. I'd be doing Mafia Tour 101 while my better half could give the graduate course.

I'm not going to badmouth the LVA crew. They have some legitimacy. Fezzik is, arguably, the best NFL contest player ever, but the whole contest thing underscores that, as in poker, there are contest guys and betting guys.

You need to negotiate directly with Bob and Richard. Use gamblingwithanedge@gmail.com and rwmunchkin@gamil.com. Send the same email to both addresses. Keep us posted.

[coach belly]

It would be a go with the caveat

Here we go again with this phony and his caveats...sounds like the same shit he pulled to weasel out of an interview with Singer.

Next week, over the phone, like every other interview on that show, not good enough for queen bee ditz.

[mickeycrimm]

Redietz, I have a response from Bob Dancer. I had sent him what you wrote about appearing on GWAE. I didn't change a word. I copied and pasted it. He's concerned about whether you intend to trash sports bettors who have previously appeared on the show. If you don't intend to do that then he will clear it with Richard.

If it's a go then I'll put you in email contact with Bob. I've been on the show 3 times so I know the drill. He will ask you for a list of things to talk about, and he may have some suggestions of his own, so he can formulate the questions. When the list of topics is agreed upon they will do the interview.

I also told him you appear to be a world class handicapper with a rich history in sportsbetting. So do us all a favor and don't trash us lowlife VCT AP's either.

It would be a go with the caveat that I would like to do "in studio" in Las Vegas in person. That way I get to meet the principals involved. I prefer doing these things in person when possible.

I have to get to LV a couple of times in the next four months or so anyway because I'm likely going to do a tour guide thing for a documentary filmmaker who is strictly an East Coast mob expert, but who is unfamiliar with details of Las Vegas. So hopefully I can dovetail the two. If not, I'll do the tour-guide thing later. I'd be doing Mafia Tour 101 while my better half could give the graduate course.

I'm not going to badmouth the LVA crew. They have some legitimacy. Fezzik is, arguably, the best NFL contest player ever, but the whole contest thing underscores that, as in poker, there are contest guys and betting guys.

red, I just thought of something. You may not be able to do "in studio." My last interview they were both in their own homes, Bob in Vegas and Richard in California. It was a teleconference. Bob looked like he had just got out of bed. He was in his pajamas.

[coach belly]

You may not be able to do "in studio."

LOL...weasel room.

[Rob.Singer]

Redietz, I have a response from Bob Dancer. I had sent him what you wrote about appearing on GWAE. I didn't change a word. I copied and pasted it. He's concerned about whether you intend to trash sports bettors who have previously appeared on the show. If you don't intend to do that then he will clear it with Richard.

If it's a go then I'll put you in email contact with Bob. I've been on the show 3 times so I know the drill. He will ask you for a list of things to talk about, and he may have some suggestions of his own, so he can formulate the questions. When the list of topics is agreed upon they will do the interview.

I also told him you appear to be a world class handicapper with a rich history in sportsbetting. So do us all a favor and don't trash us lowlife VCT AP's either.

It would be a go with the caveat that I would like to do "in studio" in Las Vegas in person. That way I get to meet the principals involved. I prefer doing these things in person when possible.

I have to get to LV a couple of times in the next four months or so anyway because I'm likely going to do a tour guide thing for a documentary filmmaker who is strictly an East Coast mob expert, but who is unfamiliar with details of Las Vegas. So hopefully I can dovetail the two. If not, I'll do the tour-guide thing later. I'd be doing Mafia Tour 101 while my better half could give the graduate course.

I'm not going to badmouth the LVA crew. They have some legitimacy. Fezzik is, arguably, the best NFL contest player ever, but the whole contest thing underscores that, as in poker, there are contest guys and betting guys.

red, I just thought of something. You may not be able to do "in studio." My last interview they were both in their own homes, Bob in Vegas and Richard in California. It was a teleconference. Bob looked like he had just got out of bed. He was in his pajamas.

Isn't GWAE a podcast? If so, those are all pre-recorded. I wouldn't expect there's an actual "studio".

I was asked to be on the Larry Grossman show some years back, and like redietz, I immediately said I wanted an in-studio interview. There wasn't any choice though, because the show was on a real radio station and I had to go in-studio. There may not be a choice with GWAE.

[mickeycrimm]

It would be a go with the caveat that I would like to do "in studio" in Las Vegas in person. That way I get to meet the principals involved. I prefer doing these things in person when possible.

I have to get to LV a couple of times in the next four months or so anyway because I'm likely going to do a tour guide thing for a documentary filmmaker who is strictly an East Coast mob expert, but who is unfamiliar with details of Las Vegas. So hopefully I can dovetail the two. If not, I'll do the tour-guide thing later. I'd be doing Mafia Tour 101 while my better half could give the graduate course.

I'm not going to badmouth the LVA crew. They have some legitimacy. Fezzik is, arguably, the best NFL contest player ever, but the whole contest thing underscores that, as in poker, there are contest guys and betting guys.

red, I just thought of something. You may not be able to do "in studio." My last interview they were both in their own homes, Bob in Vegas and Richard in California. It was a teleconference. Bob looked like he had just got out of bed. He was in his pajamas.

Isn't GWAE a podcast? If so, those are all pre-recorded. I wouldn't expect there's an actual "studio".

I was asked to be on the Larry Grossman show some years back, and like redietz, I immediately said I wanted an in-studio interview. There wasn't any choice though, because the show was on a real radio station and I had to go in-studio. There may not be a choice with GWAE.

At one time they were in a studio. But Richard didn't like having to drive from California to do a show so they started recording from their homes. IIRC, it was Skype they used. I could see them and they could see me.

[accountinquestion]

I am going to refrain from being a jerk to Redietz because he deserves more respect and credit than I give him. Anyone on GWAE is worthy of respect IMO.

I am looking forward to see him talk about his life and such on GWAE. It will be interesting to hear how old school guys still do it.

Thank you for putting it together Mickey.

[mcap]

From adversaries to Mickey becoming Redietz' publicity and appearance agent, perhaps we can all find a way to get along here, after all. JK

Rediettz and I don't really have a disagreement. I'm not schooled enough on sports betting to have an educated opinion on whether or not "advantage players betting off-market lines and odds" and "taking advantage of weak numbers" can be done profitably.

Redietz' opinion is it can't be done profitably. That's his opinion and that's fine. But should we just take his word for it or further investigate? I think we should further investigate. We need more information and opinions than just redietz.

So far I've found Frank B and Spanky who say it's not just possible but they've been doing it for years.

So the score so far is....

Other Sports Bettors 2
Redietz 1

Now I'm investigating other professional sports bettors like Krakomberger, Denkelson, Fortuna, and anyone else I can find.

Dink passed away last year Mick, also Krack is a tout.

[AxelWolf]

Famous Sports Bettors: Gadoon “Spanky” Kyrollos

"While Spanky does not give out picks, he has occasionally mentioned his gambling strategy. From the ways that he describes it, what Spanky does differently from other famous sports bettors is that he assumes that point spreads are somewhat accurate heading into a game. From there, Spanky uses breaking news and large line movements to gain a leg up on the sportsbooks. Kyrollos also focuses on a style of betting known as arbitrage betting. With arbitrage betting, Kyrollos finds betting lines that offer odds so different he can bet both sides of a matchup and win regardless. In order properly arbitrage bet, Gaddo “Spanky” Kyrollos must line shop extensively and sign up for multiple sportsbooks. That strategy is recommended for everyone, with Spanky just an example of how valuable it is.

Due to his constant winning, Gadon Kyrollos is banned from many casinos. The workaround to this, however, is Spanky using a system of “runners” to place his wagers. Runners are individuals who will place Kyrollos wagers on his behalf. They will go to the sportsbooks, place the bets that Kyrollos wants, then collect any winnings and return them to him. This is common practice not only for sports bettors who aren’t welcome but for celebrity bettors as well who wish to wager discretely. Thanks to runners, Spanky has managed to continue high stakes sports wagering all over. He has not missed a beat despite being unwelcome at several sportsbooks."

Mickey, you should probably watch the old movie, "The Runner." It's based on Billy Waters, with John Goodman playing the Walters character. It's a terrible movie, but it does capture the world of runners pretty well. Some famous actors in all the key roles.

By the way, the whole "running" thing is persona non grata unless you're an LLC these days in Las Vegas. So my suspicion is that anyone employing runners is probably doing so with the sports books' knowledge and blessing.

They had one of the best Blackjack scenes I have seen. That Asian dealer aspect was spot on from what many blackjack players thought.

[AxelWolf]

Meanwhile, the handicappers who have documented records stretching back decades

Documented records of what? Winning via just handicapping? Please show me someone who can show decades of legitimate documented records beating sports via only handicapping. (something like what DanDruff does, gives his picks and the line beforehand)

I believe I asked this question before and crickets.

[AxelWolf]

It appears that handicappers have long detested steam chasers like Frank B and Spanky that snipe the numbers. They call them bottomfeeders and leeches. Why would that be?

Well, it looks like plain and simple HUBRIS to me. The fundamental analysis that the handicapper does....takes a lot of work. But the guys sniping numbers are making money with very little work. I can see why redietz would be jealous.

Red, tell us about the good old days when you were hobnobbing with Bob Martin and Vic Salerno.

OMG -- "steam chasers!" There you go -- file that with "sharps" and "soft numbers" and you have a triumvirate of jargon every blue-blooded American AP can proudly wear into the sports book.

I don't call anyone a bottom-feeder, man. I'm sure Joe Lupo considered me a real flounder back in my youth.

Mickey -- this whole "making money with very little work" is hogwash. It's fantasy trash. It's a story people tell themselves to help them sleep at night.

"Sniping numbers?" LOL. You have to anticipate where numbers will move before you do any sniping. This assumption that numbers moves in all sports are advantageous a significant portion of the time is more fantasy. Now that Covid-based line moves are history, that stuff is of marginal value UNLESS YOU CAN ANTICIPATE THE MOVES.

Dan's been using those kinds of angles for the NBA and college hoops. It has not been pretty. And did you check the NFL playoffs' "soft numbers?"

Mickey, here's the thing. You are embarrassing yourself. And frankly, I'm embarrassing myself by spelling this stuff out to you. It's like I'm picking on special ed kids on this forum. You have a group of APs who are telling the world they win at sports betting. But there's no handicapping records. There's no day-to-day listing of "sniping numbers." There's just the AP narratives.

Now it's possible to have stellar handicapping records and to lose betting sports. Some people lack sport-specific discipline or just go to hell when the going gets tough. But do you really think people without solid handicapping records win betting sports because they exploit "soft numbers?" You're living in fantasyland, just making unverifiable claims about what people have done and can do.

I'll state it again -- Billy Walters had access to every expert in virtually every sport, he negotiated reduced vig, he had programmers out the ass, certainly better mathematicians than Mr. Shackleford, and even he had long losing stretches where he took good beatings. Yet your story is that the hard-scrabble APs betting 2G a game somehow use "AP" techniques to exploit "soft numbers" and consistently beat the sports books.

If that's your preference in beliefs, God bless you and good luck with it.

I doubt Walters ever had a mathematician as strong as Shackleford. You need to go over and take a look at the Wizard of Odds site. There has never been and never will be anything like it.

I didn't say he was a great gambler. But as a mathematician Shackleford will run circles around anyone you or Walters ever knew.

You are just showing more of your ignorance.

I swear whenever you google something gambling/LV related WOO/WOV comes up. LCB has to be raking it in. I don't know how all that CSO(is that what they call it?)works but it probably also linked up and tied into LCB.

[kewlJ]

red, I just thought of something. You may not be able to do "in studio." My last interview they were both in their own homes, Bob in Vegas and Richard in California. It was a teleconference. Bob looked like he had just got out of bed. He was in his pajamas.

Mickey, are you sure Munchkin was in California? He bought a house in Vegas about 6-7 years ago. At the time he said he wasn't ready to live in Vegas yet, that it was for some time down the road. He thought it was a good time to buy because housing prices were low. He was right.

I haven't communicated with Richard in several years, but I would have thought that time would have come, because I know he works on some plays with one of the top AP's here in Vegas. Does he still work or have ties to Hollywood? If that part of his career is over, I would think Vegas would be a lot cheaper to live that LA.

[kewlJ]

I swear whenever you google something gambling/LV related WOO/WOV comes up. LCB has to be raking it in. I don't know how all that CSO(is that what they call it?)works but it probably also linked up and tied into LCB.

Axel, have you or anybody (even Shackleford) figured out exactly how WoO/WoV was worth the money LCB paid for it? How have they gotten that kind of return on their investment? I am sure WoV wasn't what they wanted. That is just a forum with a few hundred (at best) members and most are AP's or serious gamblers, not the degen gambler types that would benefit their business. And while WoO is a worthwhile site, again, I would think it attracts, well not exactly the kind of losing players LCB would be interested in. Admittedly, I don't know that business, but it sure seems like they way overpaid for those sites, which was good for Shackleford.

[AxelWolf]

Redietz, I have a response from Bob Dancer. I had sent him what you wrote about appearing on GWAE. I didn't change a word. I copied and pasted it. He's concerned about whether you intend to trash sports bettors who have previously appeared on the show. If you don't intend to do that then he will clear it with Richard.

If it's a go then I'll put you in email contact with Bob. I've been on the show 3 times so I know the drill. He will ask you for a list of things to talk about, and he may have some suggestions of his own, so he can formulate the questions. When the list of topics is agreed upon they will do the interview.

I also told him you appear to be a world class handicapper with a rich history in sportsbetting. So do us all a favor and don't trash us lowlife VCT AP's either.

It would be a go with the caveat that I would like to do "in studio" in Las Vegas in person. That way I get to meet the principals involved. I prefer doing these things in person when possible.

I have to get to LV a couple of times in the next four months or so anyway because I'm likely going to do a tour guide thing for a documentary filmmaker who is strictly an East Coast mob expert, but who is unfamiliar with details of Las Vegas. So hopefully I can dovetail the two. If not, I'll do the tour-guide thing later. I'd be doing Mafia Tour 101 while my better half could give the graduate course.

I'm not going to badmouth the LVA crew. They have some legitimacy. Fezzik is, arguably, the best NFL contest player ever, but the whole contest thing underscores that, as in poker, there are contest guys and betting guys.

Assuming no actual studio there's a simple solution. Just set up a meet and greet with them for lunch or whatever before doing the interview.
------------------------------------------------------------------
A solo interview with them will be as meaningless as Mike's last interview with Rob. Mike was too quick to just get the interview going with no real investigation or preparation. I asked him to wait, but he didn't want to. I was quite peeved off since I facilitated it, but whatever. I would've surprised Rob with a double-up bugged machine and had him do it, or guide someone through it. I had a lead on someone who possibly owned some. Theres other things I would've done as well. I wouldn't have played softball. Mike was never going to play hard ball he just wanted content.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyways, an interview won't shed much light on anything regarding all this. Bob and Richard are not there to call people out, or prove, or disprove anything. They just ask questions, listen and then discuss. There would have to be a few expert advisories to debate.

I know some experts in the field and they wouldn't ever blatantly call anyone such as yourself out, they would just state there are multiple ways to beat sports blah blah blah.

Perhaps after the interview, someone could quote some of your posts here over to LVA, etc, and then ask people to chime in.

[AxelWolf]

I swear whenever you google something gambling/LV related WOO/WOV comes up. LCB has to be raking it in. I don't know how all that CSO(is that what they call it?)works but it probably also linked up and tied into LCB.

Axel, have you or anybody (even Shackleford) figured out exactly how WoO/WoV was worth the money LCB paid for it? How have they gotten that kind of return on their investment? I am sure WoV wasn't what they wanted. That is just a forum with a few hundred (at best) members and most are AP's or serious gamblers, not the degen gambler types that would benefit their business. And while WoO is a worthwhile site, again, I would think it attracts, well not exactly the kind of losing players LCB would be interested in. Admittedly, I don't know that business, but it sure seems like they way overpaid for those sites, which was good for Shackleford.

Membership is meaningless, WOV is meaningless, and they don't really care about WOV.

I believe WOV is a net negative for them. Sure they probably make a good profit from WOV, but WOV probably drives off more potential customers than it captures. I think that's impossible to know. Most posts related to online gambling on WOV are negative. And "systems are bad" talk isn't good for online affiliate crap either.

Did you read the part where just about anything LV and gambling-related pops up WOV/WOO?

I don't think they overpaid for WOO. The calculators, all the different games, paytables, articles, and detailed gambling information are worth a shit-ton. I don't know the details, but I believe his contract was up a while ago. I would guess they are still paying him well to continue making content or he/they wouldn't continue.

They make a fuck ton. Imagine having a piece of thousands of casinos, and god only knows how many players (Hundreds of thousands).

[kewlJ]

A solo interview with them will be as meaningless as Mike's last interview with Rob. Mike was too quick to just get the interview going with no real investigation or preparation. I asked him to wait, but he didn't want to. I was quite peeved off since I facilitated it, but whatever. I would've surprised Rob with a double-up bugged machine and had him do it, or guide someone through it. I had a lead on someone who possibly owned some. Theres other things I would've done as well. I wouldn't have played softball. Mike was never going to play hard ball he just wanted content.

I don't want to hijack mickey's thread about sports betting and redietz on GWAE, which I look forward to, so I will make this one post about the topic above. I think you are not giving your friend Shackleford enough credit concerning the Rob Singer interview. Had Mike done what you suggest, it would have scared Rob off and the interview wouldn't have gone far. Mike lobbed softball questions, as you put it, to make Rob feel at ease and not like he was being attacked or challenged. Then Mike asked the question that everyone asks and should ask: Did Rob have any proof to this double up bug claim.

Singer gave his standard answer about having throw away tax information and when Mike pressed him further, Rob said he had purchased a Newell RV with the money, which isn't and never was the least bit believable. Realizing the interview didn't go well, it was like 2 days later that Singer posted pictures of an RV from the dealership that he didn't own, completely exposing himself.

I was on speaking terms with Mike at that time, and I congratulated him via PM on exposing Rob. Mike said something like he knew Rob would take the bait and do something along the lines that he did. Honestly, I don't know whether Mike really planned that out in advance, or it just fell into place and worked out, but either way, Rob ended up exposing himself. And I give Shackleford credit for that. Nothing Rob said or excuses he came up with mattered after that.

[mickeycrimm]

Mickey, are you sure Munchkin was in California? He bought a house in Vegas about 6-7 years ago. At the time he said he wasn't ready to live in Vegas yet, that it was for some time down the road. He thought it was a good time to buy because housing prices were low. He was right.

I haven't communicated with Richard in several years, but I would have thought that time would have come, because I know he works on some plays with one of the top AP's here in Vegas. Does he still work or have ties to Hollywood? If that part of his career is over, I would think Vegas would be a lot cheaper to live that LA.

I remember Bob talking about why they quit doing in studio. Can't say about whether Richard is now living in Nevada. But the last time I did the show they were on split screen with different backgrounds.

A little secret. It was funny to me at the time. I was sitting there on my laptop waiting for Bob and Richard to appear in the screen. When they appeared on split screen Richard was dressed and looked like he had been up for awhile. But it was obvious Bob had just crawled out of bed. He was in pajamas. He still had the sleep in his eyes and....I'm sure you know how your hair gets pushed out of whack from sleeping. Bob's hair was all out of whack. He hadn't tried to comb it or anything. Just crawled out of bed, went to his computer and started the interview. Didn't have a care in the world about Richard and me seeing him that way. Hope he doesn't get pissed about me writing about it. LOL

[Rob.Singer]

Kew, the fact that you're still bringing your same lies up tells me you still haven't convinced yourself I didn't do exactly as I said. You give yourself and your envy away every time you feel the need to hi-jack nearly every thread with your obsession over me. From deep inside your twisted mind, that meat I pack really must make you masturbate every day.

You keep trying to concoct this story about my being forced by Mike into saying what I did with the money won. I did buy the Newell with some of it, but he also was aware I could have bought that thing without DU money. So it was no big deal to Shack--he was just interested if it was as life-changing as it would be for most of his watchers. And we did talk about the IRS filings prior to the interview. He understood I no longer had them and why; there's zero reason to keep them beyond what the law stipulates. Anyone would understand that but you--you want the world to think I needed to keep them for some kind of proof which was never an important issue with me, and I'd never produce them anyway because I have someone called a WIFE involved--because there's not a lot in real life that you DO understand. These stupid things you say and have to keep saying, and act like they're real just because you say them, are why people laugh at you.

Axel--Mike never asked me to appear in-person, but if he did I would certainly have. If there were a machine available I would have easily been able to replicate the play--handpay winner or not. As you remember, it was me who detailed the correct sequence and identified the version in Wired as wrong, which prompted several people here to contact them and ask about why they weren't truthful about it. I believe their answer had to do with not wanting to publicly get the correct sequence out there or they had an agreement with IGT or law enforcement or attorneys or something. Either way, there's no one alive who knows the play as I do, and if anyone ever wants me to prove the play to them and I'm still able to do so, just ask.

Oh---I imagine you'll need a machine and the right software pack to install. Maybe someone with a home machine could work it because as you all know and contrary to more lies kew needs everyone to believe, I HAVE NO HOME MACHINE, NO EXERCISE EQUIPMENT, AND NO BASEMENT.