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Thread: Professional Sportsbetting

  1. #3341
    Originally Posted by accountinquestion View Post
    There are specific reasons I asked to verification.
    That is so funny...Ozzy must be spinning in his grave laughing.

    Is English your second language, or are you just an ignorant dumbass like everybody says you are?

  2. #3342
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    I spent college football seasons in Las Vegas. If that's "snowbirding," I suggest you buy better calendars.
    Did I say YOU were a snowbird? Or did I compare you spending 3 months a year in Vegas to that of our snowbirds?
    Dan Druff: "there's no question that MDawg has been an obnoxious braggart, and has rubbed a ton of people the wrong way. There's something missing from his stories. Either they're fabricated, grossly exaggerated, or largely incomplete".

  3. #3343
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    Originally Posted by accountinquestion View Post
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    LOL. You should have introduced yourself. I watched the final table of one WSOP while it was held in the back of Binion's. Couldn't really tell what was going on but watched it anyway. Also watched a bit of the second Ungar title head-to-head held outside of Binion's in the tent. By that time, Ungar's nose was falling off, which is why he wore the shades, really, but everyone knew who he was.

    I have not read one single account anywhere that even suggested Ungar lost overall playing poker. Considering how little money was involved and how few tournaments there were in those days, I sincerely doubt that Ungar lost money playing live poker. He lost a fortune betting sports, which everyone knew and even he admitted, and which has been written about in multiple books.

    McManus, the author of Positively Fifth Street and a final table participant with Ungar the year he wrote it, did not like Ungar at all. Thought he was a bad look for poker and resembled (if I remember the quote correctly) "an emaciated praying mantis in his chair." He did not mean that as a compliment. But McManus never suggested that Ungar lost money playing live games. In fact, he passed along some stories of how lethal Ungar's eyesight was, pulling a KewlJ in a way. Ungar attended to action at adjacent tables to such a degree that some pros would occasionally ask him, from a table away, if they had made the right move in a cash game.

    I likely spent more time in Binion's than you did, mickey, and knew the folks staying there, because many people staying there were camped at the behest of families scattered around the country so they could make the appropriate lay-offs of sports betting money when requested. That's why Binion's had, at the time, arguably the highest sports betting volume in the city until the Mirage opened. Their sports betting limits were as high as any book, at least as posted. And they undoubtedly had higher "un-posted" arrangements with some people.
    Redietz went from telling us how he barely fucks with poker and gets off playing $100 daily tournaments at the local casino to being some knowledgeable about cash games of Unger's day. I'll go by Mickey's accounts over Redietz's 100%.

    Redietz starting off his posts with LOL. You know thats when he is really feeling threatened.

    Indubitably (as opposed to LOL).

    1) I have not read (as opposed to "heard") a single account of Ungar getting his ass kicked playing live cash poker. I could, of course, be wrong. I'm sure there may have been a slope -- in other words, the worse he got at the end vis-a-vis coke and everything else, he may have been losing the last year or two of his life, but I haven't read any accounts of him taking a poker beating. I'm trying to remember if I had stayed at the particular place he was found dead. I don't think so (although I may have stayed next door). It was raggedy.

    2) I'm sure Todd has a better feel for this topic than either myself or mickey, although I did spend more time in Binion's than anyone on this forum -- or WoV -- or (name a forum). So hopefully Todd chimes in.

    3) I guess folks could peek at Wikipedia or something and try to discern who's likely more on top of this.

    4) I find it telling that this anonymous account poster thinks mickey's stories somehow are more accurate than mine. I spent 90-100 days in LV for 20+ years. I probably spent a third of that time staying downtown. I certainly spent more time in Binion's than mickey. And...drum roll...I wasn't drinking heavily.

    I commend account for his consistent and stellar judgement.
    Todd came up in poker on the internet. He has never been much of a live player. Mickey was actually there. Mickey would know more than any of us. Correct me if I am wrong, Todd. Also this stuff occurred before Todd found internet poker anyway. Get a grip with reality man.

    I met Mickey and talked to him. We exchanged our Johnny Chan stories. He told me the drink pouring story after I told him something. You are some goofball who reneges on all sorts of things. One of them going on a radio show. You stiff some orphanage of $100 charity. (Gee you must be broke) Why would it make any sense for me to believe you more than him? You've said before you know almost nothing about the poker world.

    You're such a goof. I'm sure in circles of non-gamblers or certain types of gamblers people could listen to you and think 'oh man that guy was cool'. Even I would find many of your stories interesting. Yet for actual factual anything you've fell on your face repeatedly.

    Funnily enough you almost never tell stories. ALl you do it try to brag because in the end you are more tout than gambler.

    My impression of Mickey's stories involving Unger seem more on target with what I understood the situation to be but I'm not going to make any claims one way or another because I really don't know.

  4. #3344
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    By the way, I wanted to underline something the inestimable account had to say. He suggested that my poor self, having almost never played in a poker tournament costing more than $100, therefore shouldn't be rendering opinions different from his. Now, last I checked, Negreanu said there were as many lifetime tournament overall-money winners as "birds with teeth." So it would seem to me that no self-respecting "AP" should be playing tournament poker and should especially not be playing for any serious amounts. Thus, I am hard pressed to understand how account can be bragging so much on playing negative expectation stuff. Unless...wait for it...he's better than Negreanu. Of course he is -- that's the ticket.
    Bro you know nothing about the poker world. Who cares what Negreanu said at one point. Nice guy and all but geez you're losing it. Something I said must have hit way to close to home.

    Negreanu. Birds with teeth? huh. lol. It took me a bit. I remember kid poker from RGP. I used to interact with him on usenet. See, here I can do the same thing.

    Thats all you can do is pull up little quotes from people you've read because you know so little.

    I can promise you there are tons of guys who are up on those $100 tourneys I accused you of playing. Negreanu is likely quite wrong but it is not near as easy as it seems given the way taxes work and traveling expenses. There is a huge difference between someone who plays tournaments at the local casino vs someone traveling around playing 10ks. I am sure there are plenty of +EV in both category but it is hard to realize the EV in the latter.

    The reason an AP wouldn't play them is just because the hourly sucks. THat requires an EV calculation and such. The sort of thing you dismiss. So why even have this conversation?

  5. #3345
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Did I say YOU were a snowbird?
    Is this your weak amateur/immature hour attempt at a gotcha?...the "just sayin" quip gives you away.

    There is nothing genuine about you whatsoever...your rating is 100% douchebag.

  6. #3346
    Originally Posted by accountinquestion View Post
    Todd came up in poker on the internet. He has never been much of a live player.
    Is this another one of your attempts at being funny?

    Dan Druff can speak for himself, but his Wikipedia page says the following...

    "Witteles is primarily a cash game player."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Witteles

  7. #3347
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    Also watched a bit of the second Ungar title head-to-head held outside of Binion's in the tent. By that time, Ungar's nose was falling off, which is why he wore the shades, really, but everyone knew who he was.
    First, it wasn't Unger's 2nd main event win, it was his 3rd.

    2nd, it was played outside. There was no tent as you can obviously see in the video.

    It looks like your "facts" on Unger are a little shaky.



    PS: You spent more time in Binions than me. I spent more time in the poker world than you.
    Challenge to redietz. We bet every NFL regular season game. You make the picks. If you lay the fav I get 2 extra points. If you take the dog I get a 2 point discount. Easy pickings for you.

  8. #3348
    Originally Posted by coach belly View Post
    Originally Posted by accountinquestion View Post
    Todd came up in poker on the internet. He has never been much of a live player.
    Is this another one of your attempts at being funny?

    Dan Druff can speak for himself, but his Wikipedia page says the following...

    "Witteles is primarily a cash game player."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Witteles
    Wow that's some self-ownage.

    Cash games are also on the internet. Anyone who knows the most basics about poker would be able to explain the distinction.

    Buddy, do yourself a favor and retire from the internet.

  9. #3349
    Originally Posted by accountinquestion View Post
    He has never been much of a live player.
    Never say never...unless you are a dumbass cunt in question...

    Todd Witteles
    @ToddWitteles
    3:40 AM · Oct 13, 2024
    I've been playing live cash poker for almost 25 years

    https://www.pokerlistings.com/poker-...-todd-witteles
    Last edited by coach belly; 02-04-2025 at 04:11 AM.

  10. #3350
    Originally Posted by coach belly View Post
    Originally Posted by accountinquestion View Post
    He has never been much of a live player.
    Never say never...unless you are a dumbass cunt in question...

    Todd Witteles
    @ToddWitteles
    3:40 AM · Oct 13, 2024
    I've been playing live cash poker for almost 25 years

    https://www.pokerlistings.com/poker-...-todd-witteles
    I know that Todd is a veteran of the Bovada 30-60 Holden games. I think he plays the California card barns too. Not long ago he revealed that for awhile he was a 300-600 Holden player in Las Vegas.
    Challenge to redietz. We bet every NFL regular season game. You make the picks. If you lay the fav I get 2 extra points. If you take the dog I get a 2 point discount. Easy pickings for you.

  11. #3351
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    2) I'm sure Todd has a better feel for this topic than either myself or mickey, although I did spend more time in Binion's than anyone on this forum -- or WoV -- or (name a forum). So hopefully Todd chimes in. O3) I guess folks could peek at Wikipedia or something and try to discern who's likely more on top of this.

    4) I find it telling that this anonymous account poster thinks mickey's stories somehow are more accurate than mine. I spent 90-100 days in LV for 20+ years. I probably spent a third of that time staying downtown. I certainly spent more time in Binion's than mickey. And...drum roll...I wasn't drinking heavily..
    Unger was dead by 1998. Todd is new generation. He wasn’t around in the 90’s.

    I spent hundreds more hours in the Binions poker games than you.

    I drank about 1 day a month. Never drank in the casinos. In downtown Vegas you’d have to go down to the Atomic to see me drunk.

    Enjoying your night cap?
    Challenge to redietz. We bet every NFL regular season game. You make the picks. If you lay the fav I get 2 extra points. If you take the dog I get a 2 point discount. Easy pickings for you.

  12. #3352
    Originally Posted by coach belly View Post
    Originally Posted by accountinquestion View Post
    He has never been much of a live player.
    Never say never...unless you are a dumbass cunt in question...

    Todd Witteles
    @ToddWitteles
    3:40 AM · Oct 13, 2024
    I've been playing live cash poker for almost 25 years

    https://www.pokerlistings.com/poker-...-todd-witteles
    And? I also didn't say he didn't play live poker. I said he "came up playing online poker". See which he says .. you weren't even aware of the distinction and you thought "cash poker" meant live. You have not one clue about any of this.

    You did apparently go back to read twitter threads from last year trying to prove something.

    I understand perfectly well he has also played plenty of live poker including high limit section at bellagio and a decent amount at commerce. That doesn't meant he came up doing that.

    I might possibly be wrong but nothing you've said has demonstrated otherwise and you don't even under the basics of what you're referencing. You're just some 80+ year old dunce living out his last days trying to be another Singer. There isn't one person on this forum who will say a positive thing about you unless they do it to troll me specifically. lol

  13. #3353
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by coach belly View Post
    Originally Posted by accountinquestion View Post
    He has never been much of a live player.
    Never say never...unless you are a dumbass cunt in question...

    Todd Witteles
    @ToddWitteles
    3:40 AM · Oct 13, 2024
    I've been playing live cash poker for almost 25 years

    https://www.pokerlistings.com/poker-...-todd-witteles
    I know that Todd is a veteran of the Bovada 30-60 Holden games. I think he plays the California card barns too. Not long ago he revealed that for awhile he was a 300-600 Holden player in Las Vegas.
    Todd was around in the very very early days of online poker. It is very possible/likely he played before that. IIRC he played on the very first site - Planet Poker.

    He was not part of the days of Unger's world and all that but again - I might be wrong but I won't be as wrong as Redietz and the dunce.

  14. #3354
    Are you trying to be funny again?

    Originally Posted by accountinquestion View Post
    He has never been much of a live player.
    Originally Posted by accountinquestion View Post
    I understand perfectly well he has also played plenty of live poker

  15. #3355
    Originally Posted by coach belly View Post
    Originally Posted by accountinquestion View Post
    There are specific reasons I asked to verification.
    That is so funny...Ozzy must be spinning in his grave laughing.

    Is English your second language, or are you just an ignorant dumbass like everybody says you are?

    Has Ozzy been officially declared dead? Posters do abandon Websites for personal reasons and are presumed dead and come back posting like three years later. Hell, I abandoned a Celebrity's Website for three years after losing interest in him and came back posting VERY sparingly. For all we know, Ozzy could still be alive and just got sick of the drama that VCT is. You never know.
    Take comfort in the fact that no one is actually backing up his wishes to have you permanently banned.


    Do NOT send Kewlj any SERIOUS PRIVATE MESSAGES. Kewlj is prone to bringing up PRIVATE MESSAGES on the PUBLIC part of Websites. Do NOT trust Kewlj with any SERIOUS PRIVATE MESSAGES.

    Smart is knowing a Tomato is a fruit.

    Wise is knowing a Tomato doesn't belong in a fruit salad.



    I am glad to get my full posting rights back! Thank you Dan!

  16. #3356
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    I have not read one single account anywhere that even suggested Ungar lost overall playing poker. Considering how little money was involved and how few tournaments there were in those days, I sincerely doubt that Ungar lost money playing live poker. He lost a fortune betting sports, which everyone knew and even he admitted, and which has been written about in multiple books.
    What made Unger famous was his performance compared to his peers in 30 tournaments of his period in which the buy-in was either 5K or 10K.

    Here's the breakdown of the winners of those tournaments as I remember it. I think I got this from Dalla's book:

    16 players won 1 tournament each
    Johnny Chan won 2 tournaments
    Doyle Brunson won 2 tournaments
    Stu Unger won 10 of the 30 tournaments.

    That's what made him respected by his peers. They were in awe of his ability in tournaments.
    Challenge to redietz. We bet every NFL regular season game. You make the picks. If you lay the fav I get 2 extra points. If you take the dog I get a 2 point discount. Easy pickings for you.

  17. #3357
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    Ungar attended to action at adjacent tables to such a degree that some pros would occasionally ask him, from a table away, if they had made the right move in a cash game.
    The cash game referred to was gin rummy, not poker.
    Challenge to redietz. We bet every NFL regular season game. You make the picks. If you lay the fav I get 2 extra points. If you take the dog I get a 2 point discount. Easy pickings for you.

  18. #3358
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    Ungar attended to action at adjacent tables to such a degree that some pros would occasionally ask him, from a table away, if they had made the right move in a cash game.
    The cash game referred to was gin rummy, not poker.
    This makes far more sense.

  19. #3359
    Originally Posted by accountinquestion View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by coach belly View Post

    Never say never...unless you are a dumbass cunt in question...

    Todd Witteles
    @ToddWitteles
    3:40 AM · Oct 13, 2024
    I've been playing live cash poker for almost 25 years

    https://www.pokerlistings.com/poker-...-todd-witteles
    I know that Todd is a veteran of the Bovada 30-60 Holden games. I think he plays the California card barns too. Not long ago he revealed that for awhile he was a 300-600 Holden player in Las Vegas.
    Todd was around in the very very early days of online poker. It is very possible/likely he played before that. IIRC he played on the very first site - Planet Poker.

    He was not part of the days of Unger's world and all that but again - I might be wrong but I won't be as wrong as Redietz and the dunce.
    That may be me you are talking about, as I started playing on Planet Poker around 1999 which was pre-no-limit online. At the time I think the highest they had was 10-20 limit they may have had 20-40 Limit.

  20. #3360
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    I have not read one single account anywhere that even suggested Ungar lost overall playing poker. Considering how little money was involved and how few tournaments there were in those days, I sincerely doubt that Ungar lost money playing live poker. He lost a fortune betting sports, which everyone knew and even he admitted, and which has been written about in multiple books.
    What made Unger famous was his performance compared to his peers in 30 tournaments of his period in which the buy-in was either 5K or 10K.

    Here's the breakdown of the winners of those tournaments as I remember it. I think I got this from Dalla's book:

    16 players won 1 tournament each
    Johnny Chan won 2 tournaments
    Doyle Brunson won 2 tournaments
    Stu Unger won 10 of the 30 tournaments.

    That's what made him respected by his peers. They were in awe of his ability in tournaments.
    Mickey, do you remember Robert X?

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