Mohegan Sun and Virgin are going to separate in Las Vegas

[Dan Druff]

News was broken by a comedian, of all people:

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I saw this coming a mile away, and talked about it on my radio show many times.

This partnership was never going to work. The biggest problem was that the casino comps were not in synergy with the hotel/restaurants. Mohegan managed the casino, and handed out the comps. The comps (aside from the freeplay) were redeemed on the hotel side, owned by Virgin. Therefore, Mohegan had to transfer over real $$ to Virgin every time they handed out a comp. They weren't reimbursing them at retail rates, but that doesn't matter. It's still never going to work with this model.

Here's a simple example:

Say the player stays at Virgin on a comp offer from Mohegan during a normal Monday-Thursday. If Mohegan owned the entire property, this hotel comp would cost them almost zero money, as the room would otherwise be empty anyway, and the cost of cleaning/replacing supplies would be negligible. However, with Virgin owning it, Mohegan would have to pay Virgin some kind of nightly rate to put up the player, even if cheaper than retail.

This, in turn, caused Mohegan to become incredibly stingy with their food/hotel comps at Virgin, and in fact they were revoking them after-the-fact when people would check out -- something unheard of in Vegas, and probably not even legal.

This might still be able to fly if Virgin were a hot property located where the Aria or Cosmo sits. It doesn't work for an off-strip property with nothing interesting/special about it.

When you're #2, you try harder. If you start becoming player-unfriendly, as Mohegan did, you will lose the few people coming to your property. And that's what happened. The place was a freakin' ghost town.

Presumably the plan now is for Virgin to run the entire thing, and this idiotic partnership no longer standing in the way of success. The problem is that the time for this property to possibly succeed has come and gone. I don't see this situation turning around, even with the burdensome partnership gone.

[DGenBen]

Indian casinos are used to having either a monopoly or if not very limited competition.

They forget that Vegas is a very competitive and saturated market.

Unlike in many other parts of the country you can’t just “show up” & expect to succeed.

You have to actually offer something that customers will value to succeed. Novel concept.

[jdog]

We stopped by this property right after Virgin took it over. Nothing special. No great sign up bonus or anything. Didn't play long but the slots seemed real tight.

You're kind of in a bad spot when you're just off the strip and you got big overhead. Too pricey for locals and the location is not ideal for tourists. I think Hard Rock unloaded it for good reason. Palms and Rio probably have had similar challenges.

[Tasha]

You're right, Dan. MOST people don't even care about Mohegan Sun. I don't know why Virgin didn't team up with Bellagio, Aria, The Venetian, Wynn, Caesar's, MGM, or Harrah's. Those seven Casinos are world renowed, world famous, and wildly popular. Any one of those seven Casinos would have been a MUCH better choice than Mohegan Sun for Virgin to have teamed up with.

[MDawg]

This, in turn, caused Mohegan to become incredibly stingy with their food/hotel comps at Virgin, and in fact they were revoking them after-the-fact when people would check out -- something unheard of in Vegas, and probably not even legal.

This happened to me once, early on in my play, after I had resumed playing in Vegas about six years or so ago after a decade or so hiatus. I wasn't playing yet anywhere near the levels I am today, but I did have fifty thousand dollar lines which aren't exactly small (today my lines are much larger). On this trip, we stayed a couple weeks in the resort, and my host wasn't on duty the day we checked out. Another host comp'ed everything off the bill, RFB, leaving just tips.

A couple weeks later while we were on an unrelated trip not in Vegas, but on vacation, I noticed some charges on my credit card I had used for that stay, and contacted the host's assistant, who told me that there had been a "reversal" of comps. I got hold of the host who was indignant that we had stayed so long, and this was the sole reason that didn't want to comp the food (was willing to comp everything else, but not the food). Host was saying that "No one stays two weeks at _________, I got Chinese players with million dollar lines they don't stay that long." That was it, my play actually merited the full RFB ride, just didn't think we should have stayed that long.

I actually convinced the host to comp everything and credit the charges back to my credit card, and it didn't help that I had won in the casino too (at least from his point of view, my theo loss did justify all the comps), but the host told me didn't want to see us staying that long again.
What's funny is that eventually I got a different host because that one retired, and there were many subsequent trips where stayed even longer than two weeks, and no one ever complained about how long we stayed, and I always got the full RFB treatment. Just this particular host was very old school and looked at things differently.

Another time at a resort that has this silly policy of "no spa comps on a winning trip," we stayed almost a month at the resort and I was clobbering them. Took them for hundreds of thousands, just under a half million. At the end of the trip, my regular host wasn't present, and the host on duty comp'ed off everything RFB plus the spa charges my wife had accumulated. Probably would have gotten away with it, but my wife thought that there was a spa charge on the bill that she hadn't made, so I had VIP look into it. Well, that was a mistake, because during the course of the investigation my regular host got wind of what had happened and although the hotel did take the unauthorized charge off, the host ended up reversing all the spa charges, and I had to pay for them. This particular resort is now owned by a different outfit, and I am hoping that this policy of "no spa comps for winning players" will be rescinded.

I had another trip from a couple decades or so ago, where the host had agreed to comp everything and that I didn't need to play that trip at all, because I had played like a madman the prior trip. But then come check out time, and the host was saying that couldn't comp most of the charges! because I hadn't played. In that instance, we had a meeting where the word "reneged" was brought up, and the charges were all comp'ed off.
In recent years I have had more than a few trips where I have played absolutely 0, not at all, and still been full RFB and even spa comp'ed, but these days my play is off the charts and I've gone as much as two lengthy trips in a row with little or no play at a given resort without even seeing a bill other than for tips. Two trips in a row with zero action seems to be about the limit though - after that they start complaining. It's not even that I planned to not play, just that maybe for some reason I was playing at a different resort that trip not the one we stayed at, or I just felt like taking a break and got busy with work unrelated to casino play.

[mcap]

You're right, Dan. MOST people don't even care about Mohegan Sun. I don't know why Virgin didn't team up with Bellagio, Aria, The Venetian, Wynn, Caesar's, MGM, or Harrah's. Those seven Casinos are world renowed, world famous, and wildly popular. Any one of those seven Casinos would have been a MUCH better choice than Mohegan Sun for Virgin to have teamed up with.

What are you glazing him for? There’s mansplaining, and then there’s another category past that called druffsplaining.

[DGenBen]

You're right, Dan. MOST people don't even care about Mohegan Sun. I don't know why Virgin didn't team up with Bellagio, Aria, The Venetian, Wynn, Caesar's, MGM, or Harrah's. Those seven Casinos are world renowed, world famous, and wildly popular. Any one of those seven Casinos would have been a MUCH better choice than Mohegan Sun for Virgin to have teamed up with.

No need for those brands to team up because they have there own hotels.

I think the reason that Larry, Curly, and Mohegan Sun teamed up with Virgin is that being an Indian Casino with only 2 other properties, their expertise was not on opening new hotels in Las Vegas.

[MisterV]

Mohegan Sun has made a good side business for itself by creating an entity which other tribes can hire in order to get into the casino business.

MH basically does all the work to get it approved, up and running, then they manage it for X number of years, after which time it can be turned over to the tribe.

This just happened outside Portland: Ilani was a MH project; they developed it, gave a cut of profits to the tribe, and now the time is up and they're leaving the property.

[jdog]

Pretty sure I'd lose my sh!t if a casino ever reversed comps after the fact. You certainly do not go rogue with unauthorized charges on someone's CC! That's theft plain and simple.

[Tasha]

Pretty sure I'd lose my sh!t if a casino ever reversed comps after the fact. You certainly do not go rogue with unauthorized charges on someone's CC! That's theft plain and simple.

Another Casino did something REALLY bad like this. Not exactly the same thing, but STILL REALLY bad. Some Casino, I'll call it The Sweet Casino sent mailers saying something like," Come to the Sweet Casino on April 5th and automatically get your choice of either a Diamond bracelet, $1,000 in free play, or a free Tier Upgrade. "

When Players went to the Sweet Casino, the Casino Staff admitted that the Promotion NEVER actually existed. Players were PISSED. I remember saying something like,"Sending out Mailers for a Promotion that never existed is REALLY bad.

Players who already started playing will just leave in disgust and Players who haven't started playing yet will just not play at all and will leave. Players will bad mouth the Sweet Casino. The Casino REALLY shot themselves in the foot for sending Mailers for a Promotion that never existed.

I remember Mission saying something like,"Nathan , that was one of the best posts you have ever written. I 100 percent agree with what you said in this post. I'm proud of you." Other Posters said something like,"I can't believe I'm saying this, but Nathan is 100 percent right with this post.

[Rob.Singer]

This is not a big hit. I don't go higher than dollars any more--the thrill is gone after all the vp mugging I've done over the years. I only put this up to see if that fool garnuby or whatever the freak calls himself, can post a sentence with an insult with less than a dozen commas.

[MisterV]

I don't go higher than dollars any more--the thrill is gone after all the vp mugging I've done over the years.

Aw, how magnanimous of you, Robert...sparing the casinos from having to pay you any "additional" $1+M VP hand pays.

[Garnabby]

Aw, how magnanimous of you, Robert...sparing the casinos from having to pay you any "additional" $1+M VP hand pays.

---> Hypogonadism hypogonadotropic due to mutations in GR hormone.

https://anagram-solver.net/Aw,%20how....?partial=true

Hypogonadism means diminished functional activity of the gonads—the testicles or the ovaries—that may result in diminished production of sex hormones. Low androgen (e.g., testosterone) levels are referred to as hypoandrogenism and low estrogen (e.g., estradiol) as hypoestrogenism. These are responsible for the observed signs and symptoms in both males and females.

Male hypogonadism usually is treated with testosterone replacement to return testosterone levels to normal. Testosterone can help counter the signs and symptoms of male hypogonadism, such as decreased sexual desire, decreased energy, decreased facial and body hair, and loss of muscle mass and bone density.

Thank you for the assist, MrV. Ha.

Fitting, given Singer's proclivity for every thing Trump.

[DGenBen]

Pretty sure I'd lose my sh!t if a casino ever reversed comps after the fact. You certainly do not go rogue with unauthorized charges on someone's CC! That's theft plain and simple.

Another Casino did something REALLY bad like this. Not exactly the same thing, but STILL REALLY bad. Some Casino, I'll call it The Sweet Casino sent mailers saying something like," Come to the Sweet Casino on April 5th and automatically get your choice of either a Diamond bracelet, $1,000 in free play, or a free Tier Upgrade. "

When Players went to the Sweet Casino, the Casino Staff admitted that the Promotion NEVER actually existed. Players were PISSED. I remember saying something like,"Sending out Mailers for a Promotion that never existed is REALLY bad.

Players who already started playing will just leave in disgust and Players who haven't started playing yet will just not play at all and will leave. Players will bad mouth the Sweet Casino. The Casino REALLY shot themselves in the foot for sending Mailers for a Promotion that never existed.

I remember Mission saying something like,"Nathan , that was one of the best posts you have ever written. I 100 percent agree with what you said in this post. I'm proud of you." Other Posters said something like,"I can't believe I'm saying this, but Nathan is 100 percent right with this post.

If they sent out hundreds or thousands of flyers explaining the promotion in black & white how can they say it never existed?

Its not like a tree falling in the woods with no one around to hear it.

If you have a copy of the promotion on a flyer it exists.

If they don’t honor it at that point they must have given a reason.

What reason did they give? Did they try to say the flyers that were sent out were just a mass delusion?

[Tasha]

Pretty sure I'd lose my sh!t if a casino ever reversed comps after the fact. You certainly do not go rogue with unauthorized charges on someone's CC! That's theft plain and simple.

Another Casino did something REALLY bad like this. Not exactly the same thing, but STILL REALLY bad. Some Casino, I'll call it The Sweet Casino sent mailers saying something like," Come to the Sweet Casino on April 5th and automatically get your choice of either a Diamond bracelet, $1,000 in free play, or a free Tier Upgrade. "

When Players went to the Sweet Casino, the Casino Staff admitted that the Promotion NEVER actually existed. Players were PISSED. I remember saying something like,"Sending out Mailers for a Promotion that never existed is REALLY bad.

Players who already started playing will just leave in disgust and Players who haven't started playing yet will just not play at all and will leave. Players will bad mouth the Sweet Casino. The Casino REALLY shot themselves in the foot for sending Mailers for a Promotion that never existed.

I remember Mission saying something like,"Nathan , that was one of the best posts you have ever written. I 100 percent agree with what you said in this post. I'm proud of you." Other Posters said something like,"I can't believe I'm saying this, but Nathan is 100 percent right with this post.

If they sent out hundreds or thousands of flyers explaining the promotion in black & white how can they say it never existed?

Its not like a tree falling in the woods with no one around to hear it.

If you have a copy of the promotion on a flyer it exists.

If they don’t honor it at that point they must have given a reason.

What reason did they give? Did they try to say the flyers that were sent out were just a mass delusion?

I don't remember the details, but I just remember Players being PISSED when they went in for the Promotion and was told it basically NEVER existed. As I write this, it could have been a drunken Employee who works in Marketing who did this as an April Fools joke (Note I said,"April 5th," if the Employee did this on April 1st(April Fools day, that would leave a four day window for the Mailers to be sent) thousands of mailers to the Casino mailing list and think this would be "so HILARIOUS," when the Players show up for a non existent Promotion.

[DGenBen]

Another Casino did something REALLY bad like this. Not exactly the same thing, but STILL REALLY bad. Some Casino, I'll call it The Sweet Casino sent mailers saying something like," Come to the Sweet Casino on April 5th and automatically get your choice of either a Diamond bracelet, $1,000 in free play, or a free Tier Upgrade. "

When Players went to the Sweet Casino, the Casino Staff admitted that the Promotion NEVER actually existed. Players were PISSED. I remember saying something like,"Sending out Mailers for a Promotion that never existed is REALLY bad.

Players who already started playing will just leave in disgust and Players who haven't started playing yet will just not play at all and will leave. Players will bad mouth the Sweet Casino. The Casino REALLY shot themselves in the foot for sending Mailers for a Promotion that never existed.

I remember Mission saying something like,"Nathan , that was one of the best posts you have ever written. I 100 percent agree with what you said in this post. I'm proud of you." Other Posters said something like,"I can't believe I'm saying this, but Nathan is 100 percent right with this post.

If they sent out hundreds or thousands of flyers explaining the promotion in black & white how can they say it never existed?

Its not like a tree falling in the woods with no one around to hear it.

If you have a copy of the promotion on a flyer it exists.

If they don’t honor it at that point they must have given a reason.

What reason did they give? Did they try to say the flyers that were sent out were just a mass delusion?

I don't remember the details, but I just remember Players being PISSED when they went in for the Promotion and was told it basically NEVER existed. As I write this, it could have been a drunken Employee who works in Marketing who did this as an April Fools joke (Note I said,"April 5th," if the Employee did this on April 1st(April Fools day, that would leave a four day window for the Mailers to be sent) thousands of mailers to the Casino mailing list and think this would be "so HILARIOUS," when the Players show up for a non existent Promotion.

A drunken employee sending them on April Fools day sounds like a perfectly reasonable & logical explanation.

[MDawg]

Players were PISSED. I remember saying something like,"Sending out Mailers for a Promotion that never existed is REALLY bad.

Were you one of the players? Did you receive the mailer?

[DGenBen]

With all respect to Tasha, I think she is confusing a promotion that never existed with an incident that never existed.

[accountinquestion]

This is not a big hit. I don't go higher than dollars any more--the thrill is gone after all the vp mugging I've done over the years. I only put this up to see if that fool garnuby or whatever the freak calls himself, can post a sentence with an insult with less than a dozen commas.

Nice that you printed out some little handmade signs and put them up to legitimize the picture but with photo-enhancement the image has you and son. It looks like a basement with some cans on shelving behind you. It can be seen in the reflection. Wow. Oh well thanks for trying to keep us entertained, Rob.

[MDawg]

With all respect to Tasha, I think she is confusing a promotion that never existed with an incident that never existed.

You might as well just use the all purpose insult word around here.

UNKewlJ.

Maybe I can step in here and help,

It Never Happened.

You're welcome....