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Thread: Professional Sportsbetting

  1. #2101
    A new sportsbook in New Jersey is promising not to ban sharp bettors:

    https://twitter.com/#!/x/status/1774520726541799476
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  2. #2102
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    A new sportsbook in New Jersey is promising not to ban sharp bettors:
    <submits bet>
    wait ... wait ... wait ... wait ... wait ...
    "BOOM! Accepted"

    Has he really been limited at every single book in NJ? There's one operator, Prophet, using an exchange format. I thought they allowed anyone, although if I understand correctly, the format itself limits the potential for big bets because you need a willing customer to take the other side of your action.

    And I had the impression Circa is very tolerant, although they're not available in NJ.

  3. #2103
    Originally Posted by Don Perignom View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    A new sportsbook in New Jersey is promising not to ban sharp bettors:
    <submits bet>
    wait ... wait ... wait ... wait ... wait ...
    "BOOM! Accepted"

    Has he really been limited at every single book in NJ? There's one operator, Prophet, using an exchange format. I thought they allowed anyone, although if I understand correctly, the format itself limits the potential for big bets because you need a willing customer to take the other side of your action.

    And I had the impression Circa is very tolerant, although they're not available in NJ.
    All sharps welcome at Circa.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  4. #2104
    After getting chased out of this thread, and after some “studying up,” UNKewlJ has been chopping it up with HalfSmoke in an REDietz created sports betting thread:

    https://vegascasinotalk.com/forum/sh...the-Seeds-2024

    The two VCT members who vowed never to post here again…posting quite frequently lately, to each other.
    I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people.

    MDawg Adventures carry on at: https://www.truepassage.com/forums/f.../46-IPlayVegas

  5. #2105
    Chinamaniac has made a couple of tweets promising to release information on neworking:

    china
    @chinamaniac
    The next volume of Maniac Chronicles started as just a networking piece but I think you are going to need to bookmark it when it is live because it is going to be much more.....

    - Networking- finding partners of all kinds
    - Dealing with partners
    -Dealing with bookies and agents
    -Flipping bookies and agents
    -Flipping whales intentionally and unintentionally
    - How the relationships typically work with partners and bookies (and scenarios)
    -Scaling
    -Vetting bookies and new partners
    -Basic expectations for how arrangements work (free roll, shared risk, etc.) in different contexts (group works with an originator, group partners to get an account, etc.).
    -Taxes
    - How does a new college grad with a passion for the industry get into it?
    -necessary bankroll
    - who pays what when stiffs happen typically

    I am taking notes and piecing stuff together and will try to deliver this in the next week or 2

    china
    @chinamaniac
    Year Ago -> 500 Followers
    Today -> 2500 Followers

    To celebrate the account growth I promise to give the most comprehensive ďlong formĒ breakdown on networking and dealing with partners of all kinds that Twitter has ever seen in the sports betting realm.

    Some of this may be routine to some but it should be a good read for the majority and should help anyone below a pro tremendously.

    This post will be based on my experiences as well as all of the knowledge I have accumulated by listening to and dealing with others while gambling on the internet for 20+ years

    I hope to have this done sometime in the next 5 to 12 days
    Last edited by mickeycrimm; 04-14-2024 at 02:22 PM.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  6. #2106
    As you may know the Masters Golf Tournament ran from Apr 11 to Apr 14. The day before the start, Apr 10, China tweeted his bets. He won 8 of his 9 bets. He admits he knows nothing about golf so he couldn't possibly be using anything but a purely mathematical model:

    https://twitter.com/#!/x/status/1778167656673067451

    china
    @chinamaniac
    ⛳️ Masters Matchup Bets ⛳️

    Here are some matchups I played for the Masters... Tail at your own risk....

    -While I am a professional bettor, I HAVE NOT been betting this stuff much since 2021-2022ish....

    -Over a few hundred samples ( very small sample) I was winning north of 60% betting what I consider to be meaningful money on these....

    - I am confident in the method I use to come up with these plays until data arrives that tells me I am a losing bettor which could easily happen....

    -I don't watch golf and I know nothing about golf stats and won't watch a single hole this week....

    - I handicapped these by analyzing the market

    - I find golf boring to watch so I will do something really exciting like yard work instead.....

    Plays are Bolded

    Finau > Dustin Johnson -130
    Fleetwood > Henley -130
    Cam Young > Lowry -105
    Sam Burns > Homa -105
    Strekka > Thorbjorn -103
    Garcia > Rose -129
    Koepka > Dustin Johnson -129
    Zalatoris > Justin Thomas -110
    Morikawa > Homa -137
    Last edited by mickeycrimm; 04-16-2024 at 04:50 AM.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  7. #2107
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    The day before the start, Apr 10, China tweeted his bets. He won 8 of his 9 bets.
    I'm seeing 6-1-2. He tweeted that he went 9-1, but from context I think he intended to write 6-1.

    The pushes were Garcia vs Rose (both 151 for 36 holes), and Morikawa vs Homa (both 284 for 72 holes).

    A good outcome, but he was laying negative odds on all bets.

  8. #2108
    Originally Posted by Don Perignom View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    The day before the start, Apr 10, China tweeted his bets. He won 8 of his 9 bets.
    I'm seeing 6-1-2. He tweeted that he went 9-1, but from context I think he intended to write 6-1.

    The pushes were Garcia vs Rose (both 151 for 36 holes), and Morikawa vs Homa (both 284 for 72 holes).

    A good outcome, but he was laying negative odds on all bets.
    positive odds do not automatically qualify as an advantage
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  9. #2109
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    positive odds do not automatically qualify as an advantage
    That would be cool though. (1) Bet the plussest odds you can find. (2) Profit.

    That's kind of how people pick their video poker. They look for the pay schedule with the biggest numbers.

    Now for my professional sportsbetting question. Playing one of the major offshore books, I've achieved a major downswing. Lifetime, I've now deposited about double my withdrawals. I usually take a bonus on deposits, but not always. I always play well in excess of rollover requirements.

    Currently, I've gone broke and I see they've zeroed my rollover requirement. Would it be reasonable to take a bonus on my next deposit? I don't know the norm for zeroing rollover.

  10. #2110
    Originally Posted by Don Perignom View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    positive odds do not automatically qualify as an advantage
    That would be cool though. (1) Bet the plussest odds you can find. (2) Profit.

    That's kind of how people pick their video poker. They look for the pay schedule with the biggest numbers.

    Now for my professional sportsbetting question. Playing one of the major offshore books, I've achieved a major downswing. Lifetime, I've now deposited about double my withdrawals. I usually take a bonus on deposits, but not always. I always play well in excess of rollover requirements.

    Currently, I've gone broke and I see they've zeroed my rollover requirement. Would it be reasonable to take a bonus on my next deposit? I don't know the norm for zeroing rollover.
    If you bet enough it would be worth your effort to get them to clarify and preferably in an email.

    I would expect it to be zeroed but I don't have enough experience to know anything. (cue redietz)
    Deep down inside Redietz is probably an ok guy who wears his heart on his sleeve. 5/16/24 he left us. Remember.

  11. #2111
    Originally Posted by Don Perignom View Post
    Now for my professional sportsbetting question. Playing one of the major offshore books, I've achieved a major downswing. Lifetime, I've now deposited about double my withdrawals. I usually take a bonus on deposits, but not always. I always play well in excess of rollover requirements.

    Currently, I've gone broke and I see they've zeroed my rollover requirement. Would it be reasonable to take a bonus on my next deposit? I don't know the norm for zeroing rollover.
    If your account hits zero (meaning you have lost), then your rollover requirements are complete and reset at zero. Remaining rollover doesn't get added to a new deposit and rollover requirements. If they did that it would be incentive to not redeposit with that book, but find a new one.

    As for the situation you find yourself in, having registered a lifetime loss with more deposits than withdrawals, this can work to your advantage. This is exactly where I was last September at the start of football season. two different books had me as a losing player of several years. Not huge amounts, as I was just betting recreationally. But losing. So when football season started and I decided to give the bonus whoring thing a serious go, playing more money than I usually did, I was able to negotiate better terms, bonus and rollover, because of my history as a losing player, at both those off-shore books. I negotiated terms that weren't posted on their websites. But you have to ask and negotiate. It isn't just handed to you.

    Do you have a host or account rep? they call it a host, but it isn't a host like at a B & M casino. It is just a rep that is familiar with your account. You should contact that rep/host and ask what the best terms you can get are. They will usually offer something that isn't posted on the website. And if you play hard ball, and say something like "no thanks, I can do better elsewhere", you will get an even better offer. And this can be done by email, you don't have to call them.

    Now I have received bonuses and rollover that I have played through twice now and collected profits since I started this last September and I am currently into my 3rd cycle (still at good bonuses and rollover....good meaning you can make some money with). A couple more experienced players keep telling me they will cut me off or at least no longer offer me these "premium" terms. Maybe they will. But so far I have made good money with bonus and rollever terms better than advertises and all because I had a history involving some losses when I started getting serious.
    Dan Druff: "there's no question that MDawg has been an obnoxious braggart, and has rubbed a ton of people the wrong way. There's something missing from his stories. Either they're fabricated, grossly exaggerated, or largely incomplete".

  12. #2112
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    Kew you're not fooling anybody with your stoopid "my blackjack journey" and sports betting stuff....and you never have. You've never done anything more than "lift" information, procedures and tactics off of the true players and concocted stories of your own with it. If you're not seeing this reputation you've earned, then you are certified Philadelphia-dumb.
    I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people.

    MDawg Adventures carry on at: https://www.truepassage.com/forums/f.../46-IPlayVegas

  13. #2113
    One piece of advice that someone gave me: Once you have met your rollover requirement, don't withdraw everything meaning zero out your account. leave a small amount in there and just make small bets for a week or two. Then you can go ahead and make another deposit, with whatever new terms (even if you have a small balance).
    Dan Druff: "there's no question that MDawg has been an obnoxious braggart, and has rubbed a ton of people the wrong way. There's something missing from his stories. Either they're fabricated, grossly exaggerated, or largely incomplete".

  14. #2114
    Originally Posted by MDawg View Post
    Anything UNKewlJ hasn't had time to "study up" on (and we're talking YEARS, it takes him that long to wear one of his fables smooth enough to pass muster, we're dealing with a very dim witted individual here) he ends up sticking his fat foot in his wide loose mouth over.
    I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people.

    MDawg Adventures carry on at: https://www.truepassage.com/forums/f.../46-IPlayVegas

  15. #2115
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    I negotiated terms that weren't posted on their websites. But you have to ask and negotiate. It isn't just handed to you.

    Do you have a host or account rep?
    I'm not a big player. Each bet is usually under $500, and I'm under $100k in cumulative bets.

    I've never been contacted by a person. They invited me to their "virtual" host service, which apparently awards freeplay or cash beyond the regular VIP loyalty awards. I haven't seen enough yet to assess the value.

    My priority is to remain welcome, because I don't want to burn important bridges while I'm in the primitive stages of knowledge. I'm reluctant to go into attention-seeking negotiation mode because my deficit situation is likely quite temporary. I'm not financially down overall -- it's just that the wins have come elsewhere at other books. Long-term at this book, I hope to subsist mainly on loyalty benefits and promos.

    I don't want to waste the current negative variance, so I think I'll do a small, non-bonus reload. Give them more action, and THEN take another deposit bonus.

  16. #2116
    Originally Posted by Don Perignom View Post
    I don't want to waste the current negative variance, so I think I'll do a small, non-bonus reload. Give them more action, and THEN take another deposit bonus.
    ---> Doraemon the Movie: Nobita's New Great Adventure into the Underworld - The Seven Magic Users

    https://anagram-solver.net/Idontwant...s?partial=true


    The film opens with Professor Mangetsu, a Japanese astrophysicist and his daughter, Miyoko, being informed and startled about the approach of a giant black hole that previously destroyed the space probe Voyager 5. It is confirmed that this black hole is headed towards Earth.
    Oh, as I typed the above, several claps of thunder. Ha.
    Every one /everyone knows it all; yet, no thing /nothing is truly known by any one /anyone. Similarly, the suckers think that they win, but, the house always wins, unless to hand out an even worse beating.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsa6ojQcYXQ

    Garnabby + OppsIdidItAgain + ThomasClines (or TomasHClines) + The Grim Reaper + LMR + OneHitWonder (or 1HitWonder, 1Hit1der) + Bill Yung ---> GOTTLOB1, or GOTTLOB = Praise to God!

    Blog at https://garnabby.blogspot.com/

  17. #2117
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by Don Perignom View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    The day before the start, Apr 10, China tweeted his bets. He won 8 of his 9 bets.
    I'm seeing 6-1-2. He tweeted that he went 9-1, but from context I think he intended to write 6-1.

    The pushes were Garcia vs Rose (both 151 for 36 holes), and Morikawa vs Homa (both 284 for 72 holes).

    A good outcome, but he was laying negative odds on all bets.
    positive odds do not automatically qualify as an advantage
    In case you haven't figured it out. Mickey is quite the bullshitter. Ha.
    Every one /everyone knows it all; yet, no thing /nothing is truly known by any one /anyone. Similarly, the suckers think that they win, but, the house always wins, unless to hand out an even worse beating.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsa6ojQcYXQ

    Garnabby + OppsIdidItAgain + ThomasClines (or TomasHClines) + The Grim Reaper + LMR + OneHitWonder (or 1HitWonder, 1Hit1der) + Bill Yung ---> GOTTLOB1, or GOTTLOB = Praise to God!

    Blog at https://garnabby.blogspot.com/

  18. #2118
    Here is China's take on working other sportsbettor's accounts. My first impressions are damn that's a lot of work, also, imagine having an edge big enough that you can pay 20% of the earn to whom you use their accounts, and also fade the risk of not getting paid (there's bound to be some stiffs in the mix):

    https://twitter.com/#!/x/status/1781402067908583477

    china
    @chinamaniac
    Maniac Chronicles Vol. 8

    ☎️THIS IS SPORTSBETTING NETWORKING ☎️

    PLEASE ->>>> Like and Retweet and Follow if you like this type of content and I will write more

    Part 1 -Self Awareness ->>> " A Wise Man Once Said "

    In 2018 about 6 months before I started playing live poker for about a year's stretch , a wise man said something to me I will never forget. He said " You never know when you will be sitting at a table with a guy who either wants you to run his company or work for him in some capacity".

    In my case I never did meet a guy who wanted me to run his company but I did meet several people who had similar goals and interests that aligned with what I was doing at the time and we were able to help each other in certain ways. Just by being a gentleman and being social and having great emotional control at the poker table I was able to fill many voids.

    1. I was able to meet a lot of great people who I am still friends with today

    2. I also found guys who could beat my duplicate sports accounts with different action than I put in on my accounts

    3. I was also able to find guys who originate unique sports that work out well in specific situations when needed

    4. After seeing my action go in on accounts that were shared some of these guys loved my work and would give me accounts

    5. Some of these guys would also volunteer to run for me in the early goings of legal sports in New Jersey

    6. I was also able to get invited into lucrative private online poker games

    7. Some of the sharper live players also shared intel with me on certain players that came in very handy

    In the 8 to 9 month period of playing live poker I broke about even on the tables but with the 7 examples I just listed above that an entire experience was a gold mine.

    So remember, whether you are typing on Twitter or Facebook or you are in a live setting like sitting in a casino people are watching and studying how you conduct yourself and what you say and this could make or break making a new business connection.

    Part 2 - It is Right in Your Face - Podcasts

    With the various sports and gambling podcasts going off now it has never been easier to network and talk to other people. I have listened to just about every one of the following podcasts

    @BeBetterBettors

    @BetTheProcess

    @CirclesOffHQ

    @halfkelly
    Risk of Ruin
    @goldenpants013
    Risk Takers Podcast

    Everything you need is right here in front of your face. Listen to an episode and if you think someone is sharp and they can help you or you might be able to help them then shoot them a DM.

    If you don't shoot your shot you may get stuck spinning your wheels for an extended period of time versus potentially making a life altering connection. I can say with confidence that just reaching out and cold DMing people has led to at least a dozen or more connections of people whom I am still working with today.

    Part 3 - Betbash and Sloan

    Similar to my live poker experience I described, here are a couple of events that take place every year that are geared for meeting new people in the sports betting industry.

    I live about an hour from Boston currently and Jeff Ma announced there would be a Bet the Process meetup at some bar in Boston in 2023. So I made the time and drove there to possibly meet some new people and that I did.

    I was able to meet Rufus, Tom, Jeff and the CEO of Fanduel and a couple of other guys whom I still do business with to this day.

    Fast forward to 2024 and from meeting other guys either at Betbash or meeting them online I was invited to a Sloan dinner and this time I was surprised with an appearance from Spanky and another guy Matt I had been DMing with. I was also able to meet some other terrific guys who work in the sports field in some capacity.

    Then you have @betbash
    which is really geared towards networking. I went to my first Betbash in 2023 and was able to meet plenty of people I only knew from online and was able to meet new partners as well.

    It certainly didn't hurt that I was on Circles Off literally the week before which helped me meet people A LOT easier

    Ironically , I was able to meet a guy I was indirectly doing business with for 4 or 5 years only we didn't know each other because there was a layer between us and we were able to take this relationship up a notch.

    In the end, if you do not put yourself out there or shoot your shot with people then you are throwing away A LOT of opportunities to grow.

    Part 4 - Realistic Expectations- IT IS NOT ALL ABOUT YOU

    Most people aren't going to like to hear this but just because you meet people doesn't mean they are going to be foaming at the mouth to get your bets in for you just because you win.

    Every scenario and every situation is different but I can tell you first hand that most bigger operations are not going to want your stuff even if you are crushing because they more than likely already have what you want filled in some capacity.

    Again, every scenario is different BUT if someone already has their operation setup where they are getting a higher % on betting their own stuff and they have a very high winning % on x y and z then your stuff MORE OFTEN THAN NOT does not mean much to them.

    But again every situation is different. If you are good enough and your stuff is good enough and the situation makes sense then maybe someone will take a shot on your stuff and you can live happily ever after but more often than not that is NOT THE CASE.

    So my advice is maybe try and find other ways to help other people OUTSIDE of just giving them your bets and relationships can grow from there. Maybe you can bet for them somehow?

    Part 5 - Unrealistic % - STAY ON YOUR TOES

    There are many spots where unrealistic % come into play and the most usual spot I run into is dealing with inexperienced agents/ account wranglers who are getting me accounts.

    How it usually goes is they get me an account or accounts and we go over their freeroll %. If I offer them a freeroll of 20 % with makeup most inexperienced guys DO NOT UNDERSTAND how this works.

    1. I have run into guys who just try to ignore the makeup part even though it was thoroughly explained and they think they just get a freeroll on every week that wins.

    2. I have also had hour long conversations with guys going over things and by the time the conversation is ending and I explain the makeup part to them they get pissed because they think what I describe in # 1

    Break those deals down up front and make sure everyone is on the same page and that will save you a lot of time and aggravation later on however your splits work. The bottom line is if you are on a freeroll and I lose $5,000 you don't make anything until I win that $5,000 back. Some people do not understand how that concept works but the bottom line is if I am not making money you are not making money on a freeroll.

    I had an experience this past year where the makeup was explained and the guy kept pinching money because he didn't understand the math. Not everyone can grasp simple concepts like this so stay on your toes.

    I had another experience where a guy was going to get me an account with a HUGE credit limit and when I explained to him the makeup he just didn't get it. He literally thought if I lost 50,000 and paid it all to his bookie that if I won 5000 the next week he was getting a piece.

    Part 6- Big City Bookies vs College Bookies

    In general , big city bookies will give you a longer leash or be able to pay you out better vs small time younger bookies. The older they are , the better they are at handling everything in my experience. Again every situation is different but the majority of the trouble I have run into when collecting is always with guys that are 21-28 years old.

    Do your research and get as much intel as you can when working with local agents and local bookies because you think everyone is good for the money until they are not and then when they are not you are now possibly the one who is on the hook for that money.

    Again I am not saying this is all cut and dry as every situation is different but this is just from my experience.

    Part 7 - Figures

    Now that you have done some networking and have some relationships going MAKE SURE you stay on top of your figures. These figures should be done EVERY MONDAY and at the latest Tuesday unless there are specific circumstances which you should alert your partners to.

    If you fall behind on this stuff your life can become a nightmare and if you are dealing with shitty partners they might ghost you or even take things a step further and steal potentially the longer you drag things out with no contact.

    So every week that should be the first thing on your mind when Monday rolls around. Get your figures done and make sure you match with the other guy unless you have some type of long term running figure that does not need to verified.

    Part 8 - Getting Stiffed From Child Support in Certain States and People Stealing From You

    There are certain legal states where if someone owes let's say $50,000 in back child support and they cash out $40,000 from one of these big Legal Books like DK or FD the money can be sucked out of their account in a matter of minutes after the transactions go through to their bank.

    How do I know this? Because this happened to a good friend of mine. He had all kinds of connections to legal books and one of the guys who was betting for him happened to owe a shitload of back child support. The payment came through and was sucked out of his bank account the same day.


    So he was one the hook and he paid a big syndicate he was working with their share and he had to eat it all. So remember this in EVERY scenario you come across. People will steal whether intentionally or unintentionally.

    1. People will steal from you

    2. People will be reckless with money they collect that will go to you

    3. People have gambling problems

    4. People will bet -ev Sports with your money

    5. While you are crushing an offshore for someone that
    guy who got you the account might be firing twice as hard on a duplicate account on dumb bets

    6. People have lottery addictions

    7. People have pit problems

    8. People are broke

    9. Not everyone thinks or saves or lives like you

    10. People might be alcoholics or drug addicts

    Part 9 - Build Slow and Learn

    I have been fortunate to be doing this in some capacity for 20+ years whether it be poker and sports and the one thing you have to learn at some point or another is to have patience and to just take things one by one as they come along.

    The more you stack on your plate the more likely that plate will fall. This usually happens with a lot of younger guys in poker as they play bigger bad games and they go broke and it will happen to people who are inexperienced dealing with people on a large scale in sports betting.

    BUILD IT SLOW brick by brick and do not rush into partnerships just because it sounds good or because you are trying to please someone else. Do your research and look at every situation and weigh the pros and cons or you could wind up falling flat on your face.

    DO NOT BE AFRAID to reach out to more experienced people you may know for advice.

    Part 10 - Nothing Lasts Forever - BE PREPARED

    I tell every partner I work with the same things...

    1. If you are betting kiosks or at the counter you will get limited

    2. They will freeroll us


    3. They will try and steal from us

    4. Every PPH you give me will kick us out

    5. Save your money

    In the end it is IMPERATIVE that this is known if you are winning bettor and you have people working with you because people will do the following

    1. They will bet shitty stuff

    2. They will possibly book your stuff and report they got the bets

    3. They will spend some of your cut expecting this gravy train will run forever

    Then when it ends you are stuck holding the bag..... Be careful out there because shit like this happens

    Part 10 - Phones and Logins- DO NOT BE AN IDIOT

    If you are handing off or taking a PPH account the worst thing you can do is be constantly logging in from the phone especially on WIFI.

    When bookies on the backend or offshore operators see this they will label you as a syndicate EVEN IF YOU ARE NOT. This does not happen 100 % of the time but this is the easiest way to start a process of getting stiffed. If you need to login to an account that is getting bet on that you got wait until Monday and login from 5G NOT from Wifi

    china
    @chinamaniac
    Maniac Chronicles Vol. 8

    ☎️THIS IS SPORTSBETTING NETWORKING ☎️

    PLEASE ->>>> Like and Retweet and Follow if you like this type of content and I will write more

    Part 1 -Self Awareness ->>> " A Wise Man Once Said "

    In 2018 about 6 months before I started playing live poker for about a year's stretch , a wise man said something to me I will never forget. He said " You never know when you will be sitting at a table with a guy who either wants you to run his company or work for him in some capacity".

    In my case I never did meet a guy who wanted me to run his company but I did meet several people who had similar goals and interests that aligned with what I was doing at the time and we were able to help each other in certain ways. Just by being a gentleman and being social and having great emotional control at the poker table I was able to fill many voids.

    1. I was able to meet a lot of great people who I am still friends with today

    2. I also found guys who could beat my duplicate sports accounts with different action than I put in on my accounts

    3. I was also able to find guys who originate unique sports that work out well in specific situations when needed

    4. After seeing my action go in on accounts that were shared some of these guys loved my work and would give me accounts

    5. Some of these guys would also volunteer to run for me in the early goings of legal sports in New Jersey

    6. I was also able to get invited into lucrative private online poker games

    7. Some of the sharper live players also shared intel with me on certain players that came in very handy

    In the 8 to 9 month period of playing live poker I broke about even on the tables but with the 7 examples I just listed above that an entire experience was a gold mine.

    So remember, whether you are typing on Twitter or Facebook or you are in a live setting like sitting in a casino people are watching and studying how you conduct yourself and what you say and this could make or break making a new business connection.

    Part 2 - It is Right in Your Face - Podcasts

    With the various sports and gambling podcasts going off now it has never been easier to network and talk to other people. I have listened to just about every one of the following podcasts

    @BeBetterBettors

    @BetTheProcess

    @CirclesOffHQ

    @halfkelly
    Risk of Ruin
    @goldenpants013
    Risk Takers Podcast

    Everything you need is right here in front of your face. Listen to an episode and if you think someone is sharp and they can help you or you might be able to help them then shoot them a DM.

    If you don't shoot your shot you may get stuck spinning your wheels for an extended period of time versus potentially making a life altering connection. I can say with confidence that just reaching out and cold DMing people has led to at least a dozen or more connections of people whom I am still working with today.

    Part 3 - Betbash and Sloan

    Similar to my live poker experience I described, here are a couple of events that take place every year that are geared for meeting new people in the sports betting industry.

    I live about an hour from Boston currently and Jeff Ma announced there would be a Bet the Process meetup at some bar in Boston in 2023. So I made the time and drove there to possibly meet some new people and that I did.

    I was able to meet Rufus, Tom, Jeff and the CEO of Fanduel and a couple of other guys whom I still do business with to this day.

    Fast forward to 2024 and from meeting other guys either at Betbash or meeting them online I was invited to a Sloan dinner and this time I was surprised with an appearance from Spanky and another guy Matt I had been DMing with. I was also able to meet some other terrific guys who work in the sports field in some capacity.

    Then you have @betbash
    which is really geared towards networking. I went to my first Betbash in 2023 and was able to meet plenty of people I only knew from online and was able to meet new partners as well.

    It certainly didn't hurt that I was on Circles Off literally the week before which helped me meet people A LOT easier.

    Ironically , I was able to meet a guy I was indirectly doing business with for 4 or 5 years only we didn't know each other because there was a layer between us and we were able to take this relationship up a notch.

    In the end, if you do not put yourself out there or shoot your shot with people then you are throwing away A LOT of opportunities to grow.

    Part 4 - Realistic Expectations- IT IS NOT ALL ABOUT YOU

    Most people aren't going to like to hear this but just because you meet people doesn't mean they are going to be foaming at the mouth to get your bets in for you just because you win.

    Every scenario and every situation is different but I can tell you first hand that most bigger operations are not going to want your stuff even if you are crushing because they more than likely already have what you want filled in some capacity.

    Again, every scenario is different BUT if someone already has their operation setup where they are getting a higher % on betting their own stuff and they have a very high winning % on x y and z then your stuff MORE OFTEN THAN NOT does not mean much to them.

    But again every situation is different. If you are good enough and your stuff is good enough and the situation makes sense then maybe someone will take a shot on your stuff and you can live happily ever after but more often than not that is NOT THE CASE.

    So my advice is maybe try and find other ways to help other people OUTSIDE of just giving them your bets and relationships can grow from there. Maybe you can bet for them somehow?

    Part 5 - Unrealistic % - STAY ON YOUR TOES

    There are many spots where unrealistic % come into play and the most usual spot I run into is dealing with inexperienced agents/ account wranglers who are getting me accounts.

    How it usually goes is they get me an account or accounts and we go over their freeroll %. If I offer them a freeroll of 20 % with makeup most inexperienced guys DO NOT UNDERSTAND how this works.

    1. I have run into guys who just try to ignore the makeup part even though it was thoroughly explained and they think they just get a freeroll on every week that wins.

    2. I have also had hour long conversations with guys going over things and by the time the conversation is ending and I explain the makeup part to them they get pissed because they think what I describe in # 1

    Break those deals down up front and make sure everyone is on the same page and that will save you a lot of time and aggravation later on however your splits work. The bottom line is if you are on a freeroll and I lose $5,000 you don't make anything until I win that $5,000 back. Some people do not understand how that concept works but the bottom line is if I am not making money you are not making money on a freeroll.

    I had an experience this past year where the makeup was explained and the guy kept pinching money because he didn't understand the math. Not everyone can grasp simple concepts like this so stay on your toes.

    I had another experience where a guy was going to get me an account with a HUGE credit limit and when I explained to him the makeup he just didn't get it. He literally thought if I lost 50,000 and paid it all to his bookie that if I won 5000 the next week he was getting a piece.

    Part 6- Big City Bookies vs College Bookies

    In general , big city bookies will give you a longer leash or be able to pay you out better vs small time younger bookies. The older they are , the better they are at handling everything in my experience. Again every situation is different but the majority of the trouble I have run into when collecting is always with guys that are 21-28 years old.

    Do your research and get as much intel as you can when working with local agents and local bookies because you think everyone is good for the money until they are not and then when they are not you are now possibly the one who is on the hook for that money.

    Again I am not saying this is all cut and dry as every situation is different but this is just from my experience.

    Part 7 - Figures

    Now that you have done some networking and have some relationships going MAKE SURE you stay on top of your figures. These figures should be done EVERY MONDAY and at the latest Tuesday unless there are specific circumstances which you should alert your partners to.

    If you fall behind on this stuff your life can become a nightmare and if you are dealing with shitty partners they might ghost you or even take things a step further and steal potentially the longer you drag things out with no contact.

    So every week that should be the first thing on your mind when Monday rolls around. Get your figures done and make sure you match with the other guy unless you have some type of long term running figure that does not need to verified.

    Part 8 - Getting Stiffed From Child Support in Certain States and People Stealing From You

    There are certain legal states where if someone owes let's say $50,000 in back child support and they cash out $40,000 from one of these big Legal Books like DK or FD the money can be sucked out of their account in a matter of minutes after the transactions go through to their bank.

    How do I know this? Because this happened to a good friend of mine. He had all kinds of connections to legal books and one of the guys who was betting for him happened to owe a shitload of back child support. The payment came through and was sucked out of his bank account the same day.

    So he was one the hook and he paid a big syndicate he was working with their share and he had to eat it all. So remember this in EVERY scenario you come across. People will steal whether intentionally or unintentionally.

    1. People will steal from you

    2. People will be reckless with money they collect that will go to you

    3. People have gambling problems

    4. People will bet -ev Sports with your money

    5. While you are crushing an offshore for someone that
    guy who got you the account might be firing twice as hard on a duplicate account on dumb bets

    6. People have lottery addictions

    7. People have pit problems

    8. People are broke

    9. Not everyone thinks or saves or lives like you

    10. People might be alcoholics or drug addicts

    Part 9 - Build Slow and Learn

    I have been fortunate to be doing this in some capacity for 20+ years whether it be poker and sports and the one thing you have to learn at some point or another is to have patience and to just take things one by one as they come along.

    The more you stack on your plate the more likely that plate will fall. This usually happens with a lot of younger guys in poker as they play bigger bad games and they go broke and it will happen to people who are inexperienced dealing with people on a large scale in sports betting.

    BUILD IT SLOW brick by brick and do not rush into partnerships just because it sounds good or because you are trying to please someone else. Do your research and look at every situation and weigh the pros and cons or you could wind up falling flat on your face.

    DO NOT BE AFRAID to reach out to more experienced people you may know for advice.

    Part 10 - Nothing Lasts Forever - BE PREPARED

    I tell every partner I work with the same things...

    1. If you are betting kiosks or at the counter you will get limited

    2. They will freeroll us

    3. They will try and steal from us

    4. Every PPH you give me will kick us out

    5. Save your money

    In the end it is IMPERATIVE that this is known if you are winning bettor and you have people working with you because people will do the following

    1. They will bet shitty stuff

    2. They will possibly book your stuff and report they got the bets

    3. They will spend some of your cut expecting this gravy train will run forever

    Then when it ends you are stuck holding the bag..... Be careful out there because shit like this happens

    Part 10 - Phones and Logins- DO NOT BE AN IDIOT

    If you are handing off or taking a PPH account the worst thing you can do is be constantly logging in from the phone especially on WIFI.

    When bookies on the backend or offshore operators see this they will label you as a syndicate EVEN IF YOU ARE NOT. This does not happen 100 % of the time but this is the easiest way to start a process of getting stiffed. If you need to login to an account that is getting bet on that you got wait until Monday and login from 5G NOT from Wifi.

    I am not going to get too deep into this but if you are betting on legal sites it is probably not the best idea to have 16 phones going back to the same address because one slip up and they can steal a lot of money from you for multi accounting etc...It has happened before and it will happen again. If the location service is on they can track you to the nearest foot I believe.

    Part 11 - Lone Wolf vs Partnering Up

    For 99% of winning bettors if you want to scale, being a lone wolf can take you so far. Some can get away with it and make a good living if they are originating and have outs that will book them but sooner or later chances are you are going to NEED TO NETWORK so get ahead of that because when the well goes dry it is going to be hard to find water.

    Again, not the case for everyone but most situations you are going to need to find people to work with in some capacity

    Part 12- Red Flags and Pretenders

    If some guy has their betting record with +XX units in their profile typically they are either a content guy or they are a fraud tout. Be careful with who you work with!

    There are a lot of pretenders out there who sound good, they claim they win, they talk big but when push comes to shove the majority of people I am describing DO NOT WIN in general or they would not be posting this info. It is possible they do not know how to execute but more often than not those guys are frauds.

    Part 13 - Be Up Front With PPH Bookies

    This is controversial but in my experience with dealing with PPH bookies the best form of language to use when opening accounts with them or a middleman agent is to tell them " I AM TRYING TO WIN" or " I AM GOING TO WIN" just so we are clear up front. Tell them when I lose you will be paid, but I expect to be paid when I win and I am going to win!

    Now most of these guys will think you are full of shit but you can always go back to this with them when they cut you off if they try to stiff and say you cheated or something else. I have had guys sulingly pay and they say 'Well you did tell me and I didn't believe you".

    Remember everyone wants to win, but not everyone tries to win. Tell them you are going to try your hardest to win out of the gate and it leads to less problems later IMO.

    Most people think this is a crazy figure but I have been paid by like 98-99% of PPH bookies and part of the reason is being up front with them or being persistent if they try to stiff me. I have been fortunate to have partners who have been willing to go the extra mile while digging things up on people who try to stiff and you can be nice with them to an extent but when push comes to shove and they tell you they are not going to pay you just send them some links to the state police and the local gaming enforcement and more often than not the payment arrives within the hour.

    And then the guys who willingly pay you or seem like nice guys try and flip them into getting you other accounts and working for you as sometimes this is a great source of accounts.

    Even the guys who are trying to stiff you it is possible you can talk them into working with you after you explain to them you can put that devastation onto other bookies.

    While I am at it this can work with losing bettors of all kinds. They can get away with murder going to the counter in some of these legal places and the same can be said with mega whales who bet with PPH bookies. Find them and flip them. I might go deeper on this in another piece.

    Part 14 - Betting Your Own Stuff on Accounts you Handoff and Logging in to PPH

    You hand off an account and then you bet on it. Some people care and some people don't. Make sure you discuss this with partners before wagering on accounts that you hand off. Sometimes it can be a nightmare for tracking things.

    Also I kind of went over this before but you shouldn't be logging in here trying to tail plays unless the group says it is ok. Not only is it unethical but with the multiple logins there is a greater chance that the account is going to get flagged with the multiple logins.

    Focus on getting more accounts and you won't have to worry about the sharp plays going in.

    Part 15- Lower Your Expectations-> Gatekeepers and Backstabbers

    Most people you will meet in person are great and nice , but beware because there are a lot of gatekeepers and backstabbers who think they are so important and think their shit doesn't stink. Truth is most of these guys either don't bet or maybe do not bet as big as you think they would and just have huge egos.

    Most people you will meet in person are great and nice , but beware because there are a lot of gatekeepers and backstabbers who think they are so important and think their shit doesn't stink. Truth is most of these guys either don't bet or maybe do not bet as big as you think they would and just have huge egos.

    So just be yourself and if someone is giving you an odd vibe do not take it personal. Not everyone you meet is going to be how you expect them to be or have the same interests that you have. It is like this in every walk of life so always be prepared to deal with the small % of people who think their shit doesn't stink and people who have agendas.

    Part 16 - Learn Everyday and Take Notes Constantly

    The most important thing to do as you come up is to learn every day and take notes of specific things because it can easily help you later. If you're moving too fast and not paying attention there is a good chance something will blow up in your face later.

    Part 17 -Security

    1. Secure Your PC
    2. Secure Your Home
    3. Secure Yourself

    I remember a great comment from a guy back in the online poker boom and it was something like people are playing for 10s and 100s of thousands of dollars in online poker and they are playing on shitty internet with no backup connections on a cheap $200 laptop with no security.

    And this was true and right after I read that I upgraded everything. If this is your living you should have top of the line equipment and good security and that should go for everything

    It is not too far-fetched for someone to be able to find a way to hack into your shit one way or another and install something remote to spy on what you're doing if you're at the top. This happened to Doug Polk and he got cheated via online poker and I believe Haralabob said someone hacked into his laptop while it was in his hotel room and they were betting his picks. It is unlikely but it can happen so do your best to secure your shit.

    Most people I know who gamble big keep ZERO cash at home but that doesn't mean outsiders will think that. Mostly all gambling is done electronically these days but someone might think we are living in the 1980s and will come for you. Install the best security system you can and protect yourself because you never know what the future brings.

    Get a box at the bank... Get a box at the casino.... PROTECT YOURSELF

    Part 18- Sweating Games- AND NOBODY WANTS YOUR INPUT

    I have had people bring me accounts and then as I am destroying the accounts they start critiquing my work and telling me why I should and shouldn't be doing something.

    This is a huge no no! If you can crush the account then do not give it to me. I could care less what you bet and what you should think we should bet unless you are a certified crusher. Give me the account and STFU

    And do not sweat my games for me and update me on every single win and loss and tell me about bad beats. I think this goes for most and it is the most annoying thing. I think most people who are betting are aware of what is happening with their plays in real time and if not they can check the accounting anytime. Unless you are in a group sweat chat with someone it is probably best to just keep your thoughts to yourself and let people do the work.

    Part 19 - There is No Place Like Home

    When it comes to networking and partnering the best place you will find people is right around you.

    -Legal Accounts - Friends and Family....
    -PPH - Same.....
    -Trustworthy people- You know who they are.....

    It is easier to hand someone $50,000 to go bet kiosks if you have known them for 20 years vs John11999776 from Twitter who jumped into your DMS on twitter. The guys who have gotten down the most for me are guys I have known for a LONG TIME from either online or long term friendships.

    Might take years to build relationships like this from the ground up but the truth is for most these people are right around you.

    Part 20- Payment Sources and Silence

    Now that you're in business payments will need to be exchanged. Well you better not just have one method to pay or receive with because that will eventually get shut off. You will need to have MULTIPLE payment methods and if you do not use Crypto then you probably should learn how to.

    If you're working with a big syndicate and you owe them $14k they are not going to be happy if you are trying to pay them with 70 $200 payments that are coming in from your agent or bookie. Be as versatile as possible so you can be a good partner or you will be know as someone people do not want to work with

    Part 21 - Loose Lips Sink Ships

    Self explanatory. Don't share everyones business with the world or even your own for that matter.....

    Part 22 - Ask Questions

    When identifying new partners and new bookies just ask as many questions as you can to both them and their references to try and make sure you can avoid red flags before they happen. It is easier to cut off a snake when they are right in front of you vs when you let them wiggle a mile through a field. Again, not everyone will have the integrity you do.

    Part 23 - Taxes

    Pay your share. It is that simple. You made 300k then pay taxes on 300k. What matters most is YOU PAY on YOUR SHARE.

    I am not a CPA so any other questions contact yours.

    Part 24 -Basic Expectations for How Arrangements Work

    (free roll, shared risk, etc.) in different contexts (group works with an originator, group partners to get an account, etc.).

    Freeroll- I covered this before but typically freerolls come with makeup. Most often they are 20 % of net wins and this could be for someone who gathers an account or someone who is originating. So more or less when the account or action is in the NET positive you will see 20 % of the wins and if the account is losing you make no money until all of the money that was lost is recouped. The % could differ depending on how they are negotiated.

    Shared Risk- This means if someone is betting for you and you are sharing the risk both sides are paying 50 % of the losses and 50 % of the risks if that is the determined % ahead of time and these figures can vary depending on how many people are involved.

    Flat payouts- Some people pay XXXX for an account or might give an originator a flat bet amount of $xxx or $xxxx or $xxxxx if that is what is negotiated.

    Every scenario is different but these are the most basic ways things break down. I have had scenarios where I am getting as little as 10 % of action on accounts all the way up to 70 % on accounts I have handed off and it really depends on how many people are involved etc. on how that is determined.

    Part 25 - Who Pays Stiffs? Bankroll Size?

    Remember at the end of the day it is your responsibility to pay your share of what you owe whether you get stiffed or not. THE ONLY way that should be waived or lowered potentially is IF you have been working with a group for a long time and they know you are not freerolling them then it is possible they will cut you a break. Some groups are cut throat and give no breaks but I think this is an easy way to lose long term good partners.

    I have a guy who brings me 4-5 new accounts every football season and I have an agreement with him that if we get stiffed I will just erase it. But again, EVERY scenario is different so before you partner up with people make sure you go through all of this because when push comes to shove and you get stiffed you will owe.

    As far as bankroll size goes, always make sure you have enough to cover what is going in and out of the accounts for wins and losses and that's a minimum. If you want to be a good partner you NEED to be able to pay every week whether you collect or not otherwise you will just become a useless partner eventually. It is not that complicated...

    Will answer any other followup questions anyone has in this thread.

    PLEASE ->>>> Like and Retweet and Follow if you like this type of content and I will write more

    #sportsbettingpicks
    #GamblingTwitter
    #PlayerProps
    #poker
    #networking
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  19. #2119
    Here is China's take on working other sportsbettor's accounts. My first impressions are damn that's a lot of work, imagine having an edge big enough that you can pay 20% of the earn to whom you use their accounts, and also fade the risk of not getting paid (there's bound to be some stiffs in the mix):

    https://twitter.com/#!/x/status/1781402067908583477

    china
    @chinamaniac
    Maniac Chronicles Vol. 8

    ☎️THIS IS SPORTSBETTING NETWORKING ☎️

    PLEASE ->>>> Like and Retweet and Follow if you like this type of content and I will write more

    Part 1 -Self Awareness ->>> " A Wise Man Once Said "

    In 2018 about 6 months before I started playing live poker for about a year's stretch , a wise man said something to me I will never forget. He said " You never know when you will be sitting at a table with a guy who either wants you to run his company or work for him in some capacity".

    In my case I never did meet a guy who wanted me to run his company but I did meet several people who had similar goals and interests that aligned with what I was doing at the time and we were able to help each other in certain ways. Just by being a gentleman and being social and having great emotional control at the poker table I was able to fill many voids.

    1. I was able to meet a lot of great people who I am still friends with today

    2. I also found guys who could beat my duplicate sports accounts with different action than I put in on my accounts

    3. I was also able to find guys who originate unique sports that work out well in specific situations when needed

    4. After seeing my action go in on accounts that were shared some of these guys loved my work and would give me accounts

    5. Some of these guys would also volunteer to run for me in the early goings of legal sports in New Jersey

    6. I was also able to get invited into lucrative private online poker games

    7. Some of the sharper live players also shared intel with me on certain players that came in very handy

    In the 8 to 9 month period of playing live poker I broke about even on the tables but with the 7 examples I just listed above that an entire experience was a gold mine.

    So remember, whether you are typing on Twitter or Facebook or you are in a live setting like sitting in a casino people are watching and studying how you conduct yourself and what you say and this could make or break making a new business connection.

    Part 2 - It is Right in Your Face - Podcasts

    With the various sports and gambling podcasts going off now it has never been easier to network and talk to other people. I have listened to just about every one of the following podcasts

    @BeBetterBettors

    @BetTheProcess

    @CirclesOffHQ

    @halfkelly
    Risk of Ruin
    @goldenpants013
    Risk Takers Podcast

    Everything you need is right here in front of your face. Listen to an episode and if you think someone is sharp and they can help you or you might be able to help them then shoot them a DM.

    If you don't shoot your shot you may get stuck spinning your wheels for an extended period of time versus potentially making a life altering connection. I can say with confidence that just reaching out and cold DMing people has led to at least a dozen or more connections of people whom I am still working with today.

    Part 3 - Betbash and Sloan

    Similar to my live poker experience I described, here are a couple of events that take place every year that are geared for meeting new people in the sports betting industry.

    I live about an hour from Boston currently and Jeff Ma announced there would be a Bet the Process meetup at some bar in Boston in 2023. So I made the time and drove there to possibly meet some new people and that I did.

    I was able to meet Rufus, Tom, Jeff and the CEO of Fanduel and a couple of other guys whom I still do business with to this day.

    Fast forward to 2024 and from meeting other guys either at Betbash or meeting them online I was invited to a Sloan dinner and this time I was surprised with an appearance from Spanky and another guy Matt I had been DMing with. I was also able to meet some other terrific guys who work in the sports field in some capacity.

    Then you have @betbash
    which is really geared towards networking. I went to my first Betbash in 2023 and was able to meet plenty of people I only knew from online and was able to meet new partners as well.

    It certainly didn't hurt that I was on Circles Off literally the week before which helped me meet people A LOT easier

    Ironically , I was able to meet a guy I was indirectly doing business with for 4 or 5 years only we didn't know each other because there was a layer between us and we were able to take this relationship up a notch.

    In the end, if you do not put yourself out there or shoot your shot with people then you are throwing away A LOT of opportunities to grow.

    Part 4 - Realistic Expectations- IT IS NOT ALL ABOUT YOU

    Most people aren't going to like to hear this but just because you meet people doesn't mean they are going to be foaming at the mouth to get your bets in for you just because you win.

    Every scenario and every situation is different but I can tell you first hand that most bigger operations are not going to want your stuff even if you are crushing because they more than likely already have what you want filled in some capacity.

    Again, every scenario is different BUT if someone already has their operation setup where they are getting a higher % on betting their own stuff and they have a very high winning % on x y and z then your stuff MORE OFTEN THAN NOT does not mean much to them.

    But again every situation is different. If you are good enough and your stuff is good enough and the situation makes sense then maybe someone will take a shot on your stuff and you can live happily ever after but more often than not that is NOT THE CASE.

    So my advice is maybe try and find other ways to help other people OUTSIDE of just giving them your bets and relationships can grow from there. Maybe you can bet for them somehow?

    Part 5 - Unrealistic % - STAY ON YOUR TOES

    There are many spots where unrealistic % come into play and the most usual spot I run into is dealing with inexperienced agents/ account wranglers who are getting me accounts.

    How it usually goes is they get me an account or accounts and we go over their freeroll %. If I offer them a freeroll of 20 % with makeup most inexperienced guys DO NOT UNDERSTAND how this works.

    1. I have run into guys who just try to ignore the makeup part even though it was thoroughly explained and they think they just get a freeroll on every week that wins.

    2. I have also had hour long conversations with guys going over things and by the time the conversation is ending and I explain the makeup part to them they get pissed because they think what I describe in # 1

    Break those deals down up front and make sure everyone is on the same page and that will save you a lot of time and aggravation later on however your splits work. The bottom line is if you are on a freeroll and I lose $5,000 you don't make anything until I win that $5,000 back. Some people do not understand how that concept works but the bottom line is if I am not making money you are not making money on a freeroll.

    I had an experience this past year where the makeup was explained and the guy kept pinching money because he didn't understand the math. Not everyone can grasp simple concepts like this so stay on your toes.

    I had another experience where a guy was going to get me an account with a HUGE credit limit and when I explained to him the makeup he just didn't get it. He literally thought if I lost 50,000 and paid it all to his bookie that if I won 5000 the next week he was getting a piece.

    Part 6- Big City Bookies vs College Bookies

    In general , big city bookies will give you a longer leash or be able to pay you out better vs small time younger bookies. The older they are , the better they are at handling everything in my experience. Again every situation is different but the majority of the trouble I have run into when collecting is always with guys that are 21-28 years old.

    Do your research and get as much intel as you can when working with local agents and local bookies because you think everyone is good for the money until they are not and then when they are not you are now possibly the one who is on the hook for that money.

    Again I am not saying this is all cut and dry as every situation is different but this is just from my experience.

    Part 7 - Figures

    Now that you have done some networking and have some relationships going MAKE SURE you stay on top of your figures. These figures should be done EVERY MONDAY and at the latest Tuesday unless there are specific circumstances which you should alert your partners to.

    If you fall behind on this stuff your life can become a nightmare and if you are dealing with shitty partners they might ghost you or even take things a step further and steal potentially the longer you drag things out with no contact.

    So every week that should be the first thing on your mind when Monday rolls around. Get your figures done and make sure you match with the other guy unless you have some type of long term running figure that does not need to verified.

    Part 8 - Getting Stiffed From Child Support in Certain States and People Stealing From You

    There are certain legal states where if someone owes let's say $50,000 in back child support and they cash out $40,000 from one of these big Legal Books like DK or FD the money can be sucked out of their account in a matter of minutes after the transactions go through to their bank.

    How do I know this? Because this happened to a good friend of mine. He had all kinds of connections to legal books and one of the guys who was betting for him happened to owe a shitload of back child support. The payment came through and was sucked out of his bank account the same day.


    So he was one the hook and he paid a big syndicate he was working with their share and he had to eat it all. So remember this in EVERY scenario you come across. People will steal whether intentionally or unintentionally.

    1. People will steal from you

    2. People will be reckless with money they collect that will go to you

    3. People have gambling problems

    4. People will bet -ev Sports with your money

    5. While you are crushing an offshore for someone that
    guy who got you the account might be firing twice as hard on a duplicate account on dumb bets

    6. People have lottery addictions

    7. People have pit problems

    8. People are broke

    9. Not everyone thinks or saves or lives like you

    10. People might be alcoholics or drug addicts

    Part 9 - Build Slow and Learn

    I have been fortunate to be doing this in some capacity for 20+ years whether it be poker and sports and the one thing you have to learn at some point or another is to have patience and to just take things one by one as they come along.

    The more you stack on your plate the more likely that plate will fall. This usually happens with a lot of younger guys in poker as they play bigger bad games and they go broke and it will happen to people who are inexperienced dealing with people on a large scale in sports betting.

    BUILD IT SLOW brick by brick and do not rush into partnerships just because it sounds good or because you are trying to please someone else. Do your research and look at every situation and weigh the pros and cons or you could wind up falling flat on your face.

    DO NOT BE AFRAID to reach out to more experienced people you may know for advice.

    Part 10 - Nothing Lasts Forever - BE PREPARED

    I tell every partner I work with the same things...

    1. If you are betting kiosks or at the counter you will get limited

    2. They will freeroll us


    3. They will try and steal from us

    4. Every PPH you give me will kick us out

    5. Save your money

    In the end it is IMPERATIVE that this is known if you are winning bettor and you have people working with you because people will do the following

    1. They will bet shitty stuff

    2. They will possibly book your stuff and report they got the bets

    3. They will spend some of your cut expecting this gravy train will run forever

    Then when it ends you are stuck holding the bag..... Be careful out there because shit like this happens

    Part 10 - Phones and Logins- DO NOT BE AN IDIOT

    If you are handing off or taking a PPH account the worst thing you can do is be constantly logging in from the phone especially on WIFI.

    When bookies on the backend or offshore operators see this they will label you as a syndicate EVEN IF YOU ARE NOT. This does not happen 100 % of the time but this is the easiest way to start a process of getting stiffed. If you need to login to an account that is getting bet on that you got wait until Monday and login from 5G NOT from Wifi

    china
    @chinamaniac
    Maniac Chronicles Vol. 8

    ☎️THIS IS SPORTSBETTING NETWORKING ☎️

    PLEASE ->>>> Like and Retweet and Follow if you like this type of content and I will write more

    Part 1 -Self Awareness ->>> " A Wise Man Once Said "

    In 2018 about 6 months before I started playing live poker for about a year's stretch , a wise man said something to me I will never forget. He said " You never know when you will be sitting at a table with a guy who either wants you to run his company or work for him in some capacity".

    In my case I never did meet a guy who wanted me to run his company but I did meet several people who had similar goals and interests that aligned with what I was doing at the time and we were able to help each other in certain ways. Just by being a gentleman and being social and having great emotional control at the poker table I was able to fill many voids.

    1. I was able to meet a lot of great people who I am still friends with today

    2. I also found guys who could beat my duplicate sports accounts with different action than I put in on my accounts

    3. I was also able to find guys who originate unique sports that work out well in specific situations when needed

    4. After seeing my action go in on accounts that were shared some of these guys loved my work and would give me accounts

    5. Some of these guys would also volunteer to run for me in the early goings of legal sports in New Jersey

    6. I was also able to get invited into lucrative private online poker games

    7. Some of the sharper live players also shared intel with me on certain players that came in very handy

    In the 8 to 9 month period of playing live poker I broke about even on the tables but with the 7 examples I just listed above that an entire experience was a gold mine.

    So remember, whether you are typing on Twitter or Facebook or you are in a live setting like sitting in a casino people are watching and studying how you conduct yourself and what you say and this could make or break making a new business connection.

    Part 2 - It is Right in Your Face - Podcasts

    With the various sports and gambling podcasts going off now it has never been easier to network and talk to other people. I have listened to just about every one of the following podcasts

    @BeBetterBettors

    @BetTheProcess

    @CirclesOffHQ

    @halfkelly
    Risk of Ruin
    @goldenpants013
    Risk Takers Podcast

    Everything you need is right here in front of your face. Listen to an episode and if you think someone is sharp and they can help you or you might be able to help them then shoot them a DM.

    If you don't shoot your shot you may get stuck spinning your wheels for an extended period of time versus potentially making a life altering connection. I can say with confidence that just reaching out and cold DMing people has led to at least a dozen or more connections of people whom I am still working with today.

    Part 3 - Betbash and Sloan

    Similar to my live poker experience I described, here are a couple of events that take place every year that are geared for meeting new people in the sports betting industry.

    I live about an hour from Boston currently and Jeff Ma announced there would be a Bet the Process meetup at some bar in Boston in 2023. So I made the time and drove there to possibly meet some new people and that I did.

    I was able to meet Rufus, Tom, Jeff and the CEO of Fanduel and a couple of other guys whom I still do business with to this day.

    Fast forward to 2024 and from meeting other guys either at Betbash or meeting them online I was invited to a Sloan dinner and this time I was surprised with an appearance from Spanky and another guy Matt I had been DMing with. I was also able to meet some other terrific guys who work in the sports field in some capacity.

    Then you have @betbash
    which is really geared towards networking. I went to my first Betbash in 2023 and was able to meet plenty of people I only knew from online and was able to meet new partners as well.

    It certainly didn't hurt that I was on Circles Off literally the week before which helped me meet people A LOT easier.

    Ironically , I was able to meet a guy I was indirectly doing business with for 4 or 5 years only we didn't know each other because there was a layer between us and we were able to take this relationship up a notch.

    In the end, if you do not put yourself out there or shoot your shot with people then you are throwing away A LOT of opportunities to grow.

    Part 4 - Realistic Expectations- IT IS NOT ALL ABOUT YOU

    Most people aren't going to like to hear this but just because you meet people doesn't mean they are going to be foaming at the mouth to get your bets in for you just because you win.

    Every scenario and every situation is different but I can tell you first hand that most bigger operations are not going to want your stuff even if you are crushing because they more than likely already have what you want filled in some capacity.

    Again, every scenario is different BUT if someone already has their operation setup where they are getting a higher % on betting their own stuff and they have a very high winning % on x y and z then your stuff MORE OFTEN THAN NOT does not mean much to them.

    But again every situation is different. If you are good enough and your stuff is good enough and the situation makes sense then maybe someone will take a shot on your stuff and you can live happily ever after but more often than not that is NOT THE CASE.

    So my advice is maybe try and find other ways to help other people OUTSIDE of just giving them your bets and relationships can grow from there. Maybe you can bet for them somehow?

    Part 5 - Unrealistic % - STAY ON YOUR TOES

    There are many spots where unrealistic % come into play and the most usual spot I run into is dealing with inexperienced agents/ account wranglers who are getting me accounts.

    How it usually goes is they get me an account or accounts and we go over their freeroll %. If I offer them a freeroll of 20 % with makeup most inexperienced guys DO NOT UNDERSTAND how this works.

    1. I have run into guys who just try to ignore the makeup part even though it was thoroughly explained and they think they just get a freeroll on every week that wins.

    2. I have also had hour long conversations with guys going over things and by the time the conversation is ending and I explain the makeup part to them they get pissed because they think what I describe in # 1

    Break those deals down up front and make sure everyone is on the same page and that will save you a lot of time and aggravation later on however your splits work. The bottom line is if you are on a freeroll and I lose $5,000 you don't make anything until I win that $5,000 back. Some people do not understand how that concept works but the bottom line is if I am not making money you are not making money on a freeroll.

    I had an experience this past year where the makeup was explained and the guy kept pinching money because he didn't understand the math. Not everyone can grasp simple concepts like this so stay on your toes.

    I had another experience where a guy was going to get me an account with a HUGE credit limit and when I explained to him the makeup he just didn't get it. He literally thought if I lost 50,000 and paid it all to his bookie that if I won 5000 the next week he was getting a piece.

    Part 6- Big City Bookies vs College Bookies

    In general , big city bookies will give you a longer leash or be able to pay you out better vs small time younger bookies. The older they are , the better they are at handling everything in my experience. Again every situation is different but the majority of the trouble I have run into when collecting is always with guys that are 21-28 years old.

    Do your research and get as much intel as you can when working with local agents and local bookies because you think everyone is good for the money until they are not and then when they are not you are now possibly the one who is on the hook for that money.

    Again I am not saying this is all cut and dry as every situation is different but this is just from my experience.

    Part 7 - Figures

    Now that you have done some networking and have some relationships going MAKE SURE you stay on top of your figures. These figures should be done EVERY MONDAY and at the latest Tuesday unless there are specific circumstances which you should alert your partners to.

    If you fall behind on this stuff your life can become a nightmare and if you are dealing with shitty partners they might ghost you or even take things a step further and steal potentially the longer you drag things out with no contact.

    So every week that should be the first thing on your mind when Monday rolls around. Get your figures done and make sure you match with the other guy unless you have some type of long term running figure that does not need to verified.

    Part 8 - Getting Stiffed From Child Support in Certain States and People Stealing From You

    There are certain legal states where if someone owes let's say $50,000 in back child support and they cash out $40,000 from one of these big Legal Books like DK or FD the money can be sucked out of their account in a matter of minutes after the transactions go through to their bank.

    How do I know this? Because this happened to a good friend of mine. He had all kinds of connections to legal books and one of the guys who was betting for him happened to owe a shitload of back child support. The payment came through and was sucked out of his bank account the same day.

    So he was one the hook and he paid a big syndicate he was working with their share and he had to eat it all. So remember this in EVERY scenario you come across. People will steal whether intentionally or unintentionally.

    1. People will steal from you

    2. People will be reckless with money they collect that will go to you

    3. People have gambling problems

    4. People will bet -ev Sports with your money

    5. While you are crushing an offshore for someone that
    guy who got you the account might be firing twice as hard on a duplicate account on dumb bets

    6. People have lottery addictions

    7. People have pit problems

    8. People are broke

    9. Not everyone thinks or saves or lives like you

    10. People might be alcoholics or drug addicts

    Part 9 - Build Slow and Learn

    I have been fortunate to be doing this in some capacity for 20+ years whether it be poker and sports and the one thing you have to learn at some point or another is to have patience and to just take things one by one as they come along.

    The more you stack on your plate the more likely that plate will fall. This usually happens with a lot of younger guys in poker as they play bigger bad games and they go broke and it will happen to people who are inexperienced dealing with people on a large scale in sports betting.

    BUILD IT SLOW brick by brick and do not rush into partnerships just because it sounds good or because you are trying to please someone else. Do your research and look at every situation and weigh the pros and cons or you could wind up falling flat on your face.

    DO NOT BE AFRAID to reach out to more experienced people you may know for advice.

    Part 10 - Nothing Lasts Forever - BE PREPARED

    I tell every partner I work with the same things...

    1. If you are betting kiosks or at the counter you will get limited

    2. They will freeroll us

    3. They will try and steal from us

    4. Every PPH you give me will kick us out

    5. Save your money

    In the end it is IMPERATIVE that this is known if you are winning bettor and you have people working with you because people will do the following

    1. They will bet shitty stuff

    2. They will possibly book your stuff and report they got the bets

    3. They will spend some of your cut expecting this gravy train will run forever

    Then when it ends you are stuck holding the bag..... Be careful out there because shit like this happens

    Part 10 - Phones and Logins- DO NOT BE AN IDIOT

    If you are handing off or taking a PPH account the worst thing you can do is be constantly logging in from the phone especially on WIFI.

    When bookies on the backend or offshore operators see this they will label you as a syndicate EVEN IF YOU ARE NOT. This does not happen 100 % of the time but this is the easiest way to start a process of getting stiffed. If you need to login to an account that is getting bet on that you got wait until Monday and login from 5G NOT from Wifi.

    I am not going to get too deep into this but if you are betting on legal sites it is probably not the best idea to have 16 phones going back to the same address because one slip up and they can steal a lot of money from you for multi accounting etc...It has happened before and it will happen again. If the location service is on they can track you to the nearest foot I believe.

    Part 11 - Lone Wolf vs Partnering Up

    For 99% of winning bettors if you want to scale, being a lone wolf can take you so far. Some can get away with it and make a good living if they are originating and have outs that will book them but sooner or later chances are you are going to NEED TO NETWORK so get ahead of that because when the well goes dry it is going to be hard to find water.

    Again, not the case for everyone but most situations you are going to need to find people to work with in some capacity

    Part 12- Red Flags and Pretenders

    If some guy has their betting record with +XX units in their profile typically they are either a content guy or they are a fraud tout. Be careful with who you work with!

    There are a lot of pretenders out there who sound good, they claim they win, they talk big but when push comes to shove the majority of people I am describing DO NOT WIN in general or they would not be posting this info. It is possible they do not know how to execute but more often than not those guys are frauds.

    Part 13 - Be Up Front With PPH Bookies

    This is controversial but in my experience with dealing with PPH bookies the best form of language to use when opening accounts with them or a middleman agent is to tell them " I AM TRYING TO WIN" or " I AM GOING TO WIN" just so we are clear up front. Tell them when I lose you will be paid, but I expect to be paid when I win and I am going to win!

    Now most of these guys will think you are full of shit but you can always go back to this with them when they cut you off if they try to stiff and say you cheated or something else. I have had guys sulingly pay and they say 'Well you did tell me and I didn't believe you".

    Remember everyone wants to win, but not everyone tries to win. Tell them you are going to try your hardest to win out of the gate and it leads to less problems later IMO.

    Most people think this is a crazy figure but I have been paid by like 98-99% of PPH bookies and part of the reason is being up front with them or being persistent if they try to stiff me. I have been fortunate to have partners who have been willing to go the extra mile while digging things up on people who try to stiff and you can be nice with them to an extent but when push comes to shove and they tell you they are not going to pay you just send them some links to the state police and the local gaming enforcement and more often than not the payment arrives within the hour.

    And then the guys who willingly pay you or seem like nice guys try and flip them into getting you other accounts and working for you as sometimes this is a great source of accounts.

    Even the guys who are trying to stiff you it is possible you can talk them into working with you after you explain to them you can put that devastation onto other bookies.

    While I am at it this can work with losing bettors of all kinds. They can get away with murder going to the counter in some of these legal places and the same can be said with mega whales who bet with PPH bookies. Find them and flip them. I might go deeper on this in another piece.

    Part 14 - Betting Your Own Stuff on Accounts you Handoff and Logging in to PPH

    You hand off an account and then you bet on it. Some people care and some people don't. Make sure you discuss this with partners before wagering on accounts that you hand off. Sometimes it can be a nightmare for tracking things.

    Also I kind of went over this before but you shouldn't be logging in here trying to tail plays unless the group says it is ok. Not only is it unethical but with the multiple logins there is a greater chance that the account is going to get flagged with the multiple logins.

    Focus on getting more accounts and you won't have to worry about the sharp plays going in.

    Part 15- Lower Your Expectations-> Gatekeepers and Backstabbers

    Most people you will meet in person are great and nice , but beware because there are a lot of gatekeepers and backstabbers who think they are so important and think their shit doesn't stink. Truth is most of these guys either don't bet or maybe do not bet as big as you think they would and just have huge egos.

    Most people you will meet in person are great and nice , but beware because there are a lot of gatekeepers and backstabbers who think they are so important and think their shit doesn't stink. Truth is most of these guys either don't bet or maybe do not bet as big as you think they would and just have huge egos.

    So just be yourself and if someone is giving you an odd vibe do not take it personal. Not everyone you meet is going to be how you expect them to be or have the same interests that you have. It is like this in every walk of life so always be prepared to deal with the small % of people who think their shit doesn't stink and people who have agendas.

    Part 16 - Learn Everyday and Take Notes Constantly

    The most important thing to do as you come up is to learn every day and take notes of specific things because it can easily help you later. If you're moving too fast and not paying attention there is a good chance something will blow up in your face later.

    Part 17 -Security

    1. Secure Your PC
    2. Secure Your Home
    3. Secure Yourself

    I remember a great comment from a guy back in the online poker boom and it was something like people are playing for 10s and 100s of thousands of dollars in online poker and they are playing on shitty internet with no backup connections on a cheap $200 laptop with no security.

    And this was true and right after I read that I upgraded everything. If this is your living you should have top of the line equipment and good security and that should go for everything

    It is not too far-fetched for someone to be able to find a way to hack into your shit one way or another and install something remote to spy on what you're doing if you're at the top. This happened to Doug Polk and he got cheated via online poker and I believe Haralabob said someone hacked into his laptop while it was in his hotel room and they were betting his picks. It is unlikely but it can happen so do your best to secure your shit.

    Most people I know who gamble big keep ZERO cash at home but that doesn't mean outsiders will think that. Mostly all gambling is done electronically these days but someone might think we are living in the 1980s and will come for you. Install the best security system you can and protect yourself because you never know what the future brings.

    Get a box at the bank... Get a box at the casino.... PROTECT YOURSELF

    Part 18- Sweating Games- AND NOBODY WANTS YOUR INPUT

    I have had people bring me accounts and then as I am destroying the accounts they start critiquing my work and telling me why I should and shouldn't be doing something.

    This is a huge no no! If you can crush the account then do not give it to me. I could care less what you bet and what you should think we should bet unless you are a certified crusher. Give me the account and STFU

    And do not sweat my games for me and update me on every single win and loss and tell me about bad beats. I think this goes for most and it is the most annoying thing. I think most people who are betting are aware of what is happening with their plays in real time and if not they can check the accounting anytime. Unless you are in a group sweat chat with someone it is probably best to just keep your thoughts to yourself and let people do the work.

    Part 19 - There is No Place Like Home

    When it comes to networking and partnering the best place you will find people is right around you.

    -Legal Accounts - Friends and Family....
    -PPH - Same.....
    -Trustworthy people- You know who they are.....

    It is easier to hand someone $50,000 to go bet kiosks if you have known them for 20 years vs John11999776 from Twitter who jumped into your DMS on twitter. The guys who have gotten down the most for me are guys I have known for a LONG TIME from either online or long term friendships.

    Might take years to build relationships like this from the ground up but the truth is for most these people are right around you.

    Part 20- Payment Sources and Silence

    Now that you're in business payments will need to be exchanged. Well you better not just have one method to pay or receive with because that will eventually get shut off. You will need to have MULTIPLE payment methods and if you do not use Crypto then you probably should learn how to.

    If you're working with a big syndicate and you owe them $14k they are not going to be happy if you are trying to pay them with 70 $200 payments that are coming in from your agent or bookie. Be as versatile as possible so you can be a good partner or you will be know as someone people do not want to work with

    Part 21 - Loose Lips Sink Ships

    Self explanatory. Don't share everyones business with the world or even your own for that matter.....

    Part 22 - Ask Questions

    When identifying new partners and new bookies just ask as many questions as you can to both them and their references to try and make sure you can avoid red flags before they happen. It is easier to cut off a snake when they are right in front of you vs when you let them wiggle a mile through a field. Again, not everyone will have the integrity you do.

    Part 23 - Taxes

    Pay your share. It is that simple. You made 300k then pay taxes on 300k. What matters most is YOU PAY on YOUR SHARE.

    I am not a CPA so any other questions contact yours.

    Part 24 -Basic Expectations for How Arrangements Work

    (free roll, shared risk, etc.) in different contexts (group works with an originator, group partners to get an account, etc.).

    Freeroll- I covered this before but typically freerolls come with makeup. Most often they are 20 % of net wins and this could be for someone who gathers an account or someone who is originating. So more or less when the account or action is in the NET positive you will see 20 % of the wins and if the account is losing you make no money until all of the money that was lost is recouped. The % could differ depending on how they are negotiated.

    Shared Risk- This means if someone is betting for you and you are sharing the risk both sides are paying 50 % of the losses and 50 % of the risks if that is the determined % ahead of time and these figures can vary depending on how many people are involved.

    Flat payouts- Some people pay XXXX for an account or might give an originator a flat bet amount of $xxx or $xxxx or $xxxxx if that is what is negotiated.

    Every scenario is different but these are the most basic ways things break down. I have had scenarios where I am getting as little as 10 % of action on accounts all the way up to 70 % on accounts I have handed off and it really depends on how many people are involved etc. on how that is determined.

    Part 25 - Who Pays Stiffs? Bankroll Size?

    Remember at the end of the day it is your responsibility to pay your share of what you owe whether you get stiffed or not. THE ONLY way that should be waived or lowered potentially is IF you have been working with a group for a long time and they know you are not freerolling them then it is possible they will cut you a break. Some groups are cut throat and give no breaks but I think this is an easy way to lose long term good partners.

    I have a guy who brings me 4-5 new accounts every football season and I have an agreement with him that if we get stiffed I will just erase it. But again, EVERY scenario is different so before you partner up with people make sure you go through all of this because when push comes to shove and you get stiffed you will owe.

    As far as bankroll size goes, always make sure you have enough to cover what is going in and out of the accounts for wins and losses and that's a minimum. If you want to be a good partner you NEED to be able to pay every week whether you collect or not otherwise you will just become a useless partner eventually. It is not that complicated...

    Will answer any other followup questions anyone has in this thread.

    PLEASE ->>>> Like and Retweet and Follow if you like this type of content and I will write more

    #sportsbettingpicks
    #GamblingTwitter
    #PlayerProps
    #poker
    #networking
    Last edited by mickeycrimm; 04-25-2024 at 06:54 AM.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  20. #2120
    There is duplicate text in the previous post that I can't get rid of. After reading Part 10 skip down to Part 11.
    Last edited by mickeycrimm; 04-25-2024 at 07:31 AM.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

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