Professional Sportsbetting

[accountinquestion]

You came to his aid in this thread out of nowhere. Yes, you don't eat up everything Redietz says but look at this thread. It is far from a first. Redietz deserves what he gets and if he doesn't it is from pure pity.

I came to his aid, if that is the term you want to use, because what mickey is doing is simply wrong. And this comment "deserves what he gets" is proof of that. This just is not ok.

The same thing has been happening with me for several years now, topped off by this seedvalue clown. Because you don't like someone, it is not ok, to make shit up to try to discredit them.

Now if you, mickey or anyone has some concerns or questions about something redietz has said or claimed, it is fair to question, even challenge him on those concerns. But if you, mickey or anyone else is being honest, that is NOT what this is. This is bullying someone you don't like and it is just ridiculous that is what these forums are and you supposedly grown men engage in.

Mickey in the past has stated that if someone comes after him, he will come back at them twice as hard. And that is ALL this is. Mickey feels slighted by this stupid, ridiculous WRONG comment redietz made about social security.

Redietz cleaned up his post to not be so obnoxious. I'm fairly certain the first edition was more belligerent. I have no issues with that but you're clueless if you don't believe Redietz is coming around here asking to be abused. The post in this thread that he has now is reasonable. The previous one ridiculed and taunted the active userbase on here. Whatever.

[kewlJ]

If I was to take this at face value the reason you're after Mickey so much is because he defends your nemesis Singer.

I am not "after" mickey. I like mickey crimm. Even through his now desire to troll more than he is serious and wants to be taken seriously.

I also don't give a fuck about Singer or even Mdawg anymore. My challenges of their claims were not personal when I made them. It was based on that they were just not realistic, defied math and not the way things work....usually all three rolled into one.

It is true that they became person because of the lies they responded with about me. And because of that, I probably kept at it much longer than I needed too. I mean these guys are completely discredited a long time ago, in the mind of anyone that isn't just playing games. I have never lied about anything I have said about these guys. Nor attacked their families. I simply questioned and challenged claims that couldn't be, because they defy math and the way things work. THAT is fair to do. BUT again, that is NOT what is occurring with this redietz situation.

[mickeycrimm]

KJ, this thread is not about redietz. It's an overall look at sportsbetting and professional sports bettors. You've said many times you would like this forum to live up to it's name and be more about gambling. Well, here it is.

One of the things that will come out in this thread is sportsbettors face the same obstacles as blackjack players. Even though sportsbetting has spread around the country the scrutiny of professional sportsbettors by the books has raised to an all time high. The books are culling out the sharp bettors. Limited their action or banning them altogether.

Imagine trying to make a bet but the books tells you the maximum bet you can make is $13.86. That's like the pit telling you that you are limited to a $5 maximum bet. This is what Frank B and Spanky face everyday. Redietz has said the books aren't afraid of these guys. But contrary to what redietz says they've both been severely restricted by the books. So have a lot of others. They have to disguise their betting. This is a real time problem for pro sports bettors these days.

So why is redietz bragging about the book showering him with loyalty dollars while others are being cut off by the books? Inquiring minds want to know.

KJ, this thread is about the world of sports betting and pro sports bettors. I'm going to continue to explore it. Everyone else, including you and redietz, is free to join in. But please stop hijacking the thread.

[mickeycrimm]

Famous Sports Bettors: Gadoon “Spanky” Kyrollos

"While Spanky does not give out picks, he has occasionally mentioned his gambling strategy. From the ways that he describes it, what Spanky does differently from other famous sports bettors is that he assumes that point spreads are somewhat accurate heading into a game. From there, Spanky uses breaking news and large line movements to gain a leg up on the sportsbooks. Kyrollos also focuses on a style of betting known as arbitrage betting. With arbitrage betting, Kyrollos finds betting lines that offer odds so different he can bet both sides of a matchup and win regardless. In order properly arbitrage bet, Gaddo “Spanky” Kyrollos must line shop extensively and sign up for multiple sportsbooks. That strategy is recommended for everyone, with Spanky just an example of how valuable it is.

Due to his constant winning, Gadon Kyrollos is banned from many casinos. The workaround to this, however, is Spanky using a system of “runners” to place his wagers. Runners are individuals who will place Kyrollos wagers on his behalf. They will go to the sportsbooks, place the bets that Kyrollos wants, then collect any winnings and return them to him. This is common practice not only for sports bettors who aren’t welcome but for celebrity bettors as well who wish to wager discretely. Thanks to runners, Spanky has managed to continue high stakes sports wagering all over. He has not missed a beat despite being unwelcome at several sportsbooks."

[mickeycrimm]

Funny vid of Spanky getting limited on a bet again. But redietz says the books aren't afraid of Spanky.

[kewlJ]

KJ, this thread is not about redietz. It's an overall look at sportsbetting and professional sports bettors. You've said many times you would like this forum to live up to it's name and be more about gambling. Well, here it is.

One of the things that will come out in this thread is sportsbettors face the same obstacles as blackjack players. Even though sportsbetting has spread around the country the scrutiny of professional sportsbettors by the books has raised to an all time high. The books are culling out the sharp bettors. Limited their action or banning them altogether.

Imagine trying to make a bet but the books tells you the maximum bet you can make is $13.86. That's like the pit telling you that you are limited to a $5 maximum bet. This is what Frank B and Spanky face everyday. Redietz has said the books aren't afraid of these guys. But contrary to what redietz says they've both been severely restricted by the books. So have a lot of others. They have to disguise their betting. This is a real time problem for pro sports bettors these days.

So why is redietz bragging about the book showering him with loyalty dollars while others are being cut off by the books? Inquiring minds want to know.

KJ, this thread is about the world of sports betting and pro sports bettors. I'm going to continue to explore it. Everyone else, including you and redietz, is free to join in. But please stop hijacking the thread.

You raise some fair questions, mickey crimm. Questions that are fair to ask redietz. I am just not sure your intentions are as pure as you say, since you are repeatedly hounding redietz with this immediately after you spent a month or more hounding him on multiple forums about why he doesn't collect social security. You have found something you think you "got" him on and he can't answer to your satisfaction, so you repeatedly hound him, thinking you are discrediting him. And all because he said you are on the government "take".

I would love to hear more details of what redietz does. I have asked and hinted for years. And like many/most AP's he doesn't share much. And that is ok.

And this issue with the EV, I think is a terminolgy issue. If redietz were to explain everything he does (and maybe he will if he chooses to hit GWAE), and explain just how he goes about picking or determining a pick, I think you would find there is something there that makes that +EV. He just doesn't call it that.

As you know, I believe in the math. If a player is winning long-term and a sports bettor claiming decades of winning certainly is long term, there has to be something +EV he is doing to overcome the house edge against him. I am not a believer in someone just getting lucky for years and decades, as your 'friend' often claims.

[Rob.Singer]

Kew, no one knows how redietz gets, earns, or wins or loses money, and he is under no obligation to explain that. How long have you known about him--a few years maybe? Some of us have dealt with him for up to 20 years, and we still don't know what gives.

Here he's said some controversial things, and they just don't square. Forget about the tax thing--it's irrelevantly small and is just something we have fun with. But you're making mickey's questions of redietz out to be something of a vendetta, and all because you absolutely NEED drama and conflict in your life in order to motivate you to continue on with an otherwise go-nowhere/do-nothing existence.

Your involvement with this is purely nosey & personal and it shouldn't be. You have a hair up your ass (if there's any left ) over mickey choosing to think and deduce for himself when it comes to the person who torments your every waking hour. If he has reasons to believe my playing the DU bug may be true....well, you're hurt beyond words because even the thought of my success disgusts you and your pettiness. If he says he doesn't care whether or not I hit the big VP win, it's like your nuts are in a vice. You just can't separate your biases from anything else being discussed on forums. And it all has to do with you having no life OUTSIDE these forums.

My belief is you became involved in forums far too early in life, and now you're paying for it. You've probably noticed how immature you are compared to most everyone else on every forum you've taken a swing at. Experience and longevity do count. Maybe some day you'll measure up. Until then, let's see what redietz has to say about himself, Spanky, etc., because if he goes on GWAE and tries to push obvious BS over on them, he's gonna wish he were Fezzik.

[redietz]

Funny vid of Spanky getting limited on a bet again. But redietz says the books aren't afraid of Spanky.

C'mon, mickey. I like Spanky's reaction to the low limit. He could have been one of our guys when we would torture the Westgate window guys just to make them yell, "Key!" And we weren't betting seriously; we were just doing it to be assholes.

Mickey, you're making a really silly, classic straw man argument here. I mean, this isn't much of a video, but I appreciate the Spanky's attitude. LOL.

The question is, to quote myself, does limiting a bettor's wagers demonstrate that a sports book or sports book manager fears that bettor?

If you seriously ask that question, you need a Sports Betting Remedial class. But, since knowledge seems to be in short supply, and savvy pretty much nonexistent on this and most forums, I will address the question. But not on this forum. I have some good stories, so I'll do some blog entries next week regarding it, just in time for March Madness.

I have to warn you, though, if you are asking that question, maybe you need to educate yourself for about two years before making another sports bet. I'll start a thread here so the local APs can demonstrate their deep and abiding brilliance. Then I'll link my blog entries when they're finished.

[kewlJ]

Rob, I will no longer respond to anything you say to or about me at GF, so stop trying to bait me. You are like a little kid that needs and craves attention from me. And I will no longer respond or acknowledge anything here unless you behave like a normal human being without all the trolling, lies and hate. This post is somewhat along those lines so I will respond.

First thing to address is this quote by you concerning redietz: "Here he's said some controversial things, and they just don't square". Rob, EVERYTHING you say and claim doesn't square. Seriously, not a damn thing you claim, from all your gambling claims, to purchasing RV's, houses with suitcases full of money, to you are a James Bond clone, squares with reality. The single thing you claim that could even possible be, is the double up bug claim and that is because you stole that. I don't know whether you are actually delusional or it is all fun and games. Being that you appear to be a somewhat smart guy, I suspect the later, it is just a game. "Rob Singer" is a character you made up and everything you claim as Rob Singer is just make believe.

Next, fuck off with your BS about my age and experience. This is my 20th year playing blackjack and some other AP activity for a living, my 14th living and playing Las Vegas. I am not some novice newbie, either with what I do or on the forums, which I have been on since 2006. I understand you and others, including the late Alan Mendelson, who I liked but had a rocky relationship with, seemed to have a real problem with my age. Get the fuck over it. I am going to be 40 this year. I am not some kid.

Now redietz. I don't know much about sportsbetting professionally, or even at an advantage (+EV). My sportsbetting activity is purely recreational and my results reflect that. Do I know if redietz's claims of making living in the sports betting world for 30 years are true? No I don't. Same as I don't know if any other person's claims AP or otherwise are true. You are the exception because you make such ridiculous claims and because it is known who you are, Rob Argentino, not Rob Singer, it is just very easy to check and discovery you are full of shit about everything.

For everyone else, including redietz, it comes down to does this person seem to know what they are talking about or are they just talking. Redietz has met that test for me to date. If something comes along that changes that, I will re-assess my opinion. But I am not out there searching the internet for something like a measly $500 unpaid tax bill. That is no red flag. 5or 6 or more things like that, which is what you find when you look up your real name is a red flag. If this $500 LATE tax bill is all coach belly could find, no bankruptcies, no liens against property, or evictions, foreclosures or other legal judgements, it almost proves the opposite of what detective Belly set out to do.

AND while redeitz is mostly tight lipped about exactly what he does, like many AP or professional gamblers, I have in fact learned something about sports betting that I didn't know and that is the contest angle. It seems like redietz entry into at least some of these contests is due to other play, whether sports betting or whatever else. AND THAT IS A +EV PLAY whether he knows it or not. I did some of that with my VP play over the years. My play earned me entries into contests and drawings of which I have won several 5 figure prizes. THAT IS +EV PLAY! Sort of hidden +EV play.

Now I don't know if you are aware, but there is a bi-partisan push by congress and the senate, holding hearings and calling in the big social media heads that if it goes through would eliminate the protection that these platform owners, including even smaller forums, have had where they are not liable for things said on their platforms. If this goes through, you clowns that lie about everyone and all these troll games you play, Dan Druff could be held liable. That would put an end to these blatant lies to attack and discredit others.

But really why does it take that for people like you to simply be decent people and not lie and attack people and their family members.

[redietz]

Famous Sports Bettors: Gadoon “Spanky” Kyrollos

"While Spanky does not give out picks, he has occasionally mentioned his gambling strategy. From the ways that he describes it, what Spanky does differently from other famous sports bettors is that he assumes that point spreads are somewhat accurate heading into a game. From there, Spanky uses breaking news and large line movements to gain a leg up on the sportsbooks. Kyrollos also focuses on a style of betting known as arbitrage betting. With arbitrage betting, Kyrollos finds betting lines that offer odds so different he can bet both sides of a matchup and win regardless. In order properly arbitrage bet, Gaddo “Spanky” Kyrollos must line shop extensively and sign up for multiple sportsbooks. That strategy is recommended for everyone, with Spanky just an example of how valuable it is.

Due to his constant winning, Gadon Kyrollos is banned from many casinos. The workaround to this, however, is Spanky using a system of “runners” to place his wagers. Runners are individuals who will place Kyrollos wagers on his behalf. They will go to the sportsbooks, place the bets that Kyrollos wants, then collect any winnings and return them to him. This is common practice not only for sports bettors who aren’t welcome but for celebrity bettors as well who wish to wager discretely. Thanks to runners, Spanky has managed to continue high stakes sports wagering all over. He has not missed a beat despite being unwelcome at several sportsbooks."

Mickey, you should probably watch the old movie, "The Runner." It's based on Billy Waters, with John Goodman playing the Walters character. It's a terrible movie, but it does capture the world of runners pretty well. Some famous actors in all the key roles.

By the way, the whole "running" thing is persona non grata unless you're an LLC these days in Las Vegas. So my suspicion is that anyone employing runners is probably doing so with the sports books' knowledge and blessing.

[redietz]

And finally, I'll address my Loyalty Dollars at NorthBet. Mickey wants to know why, if I win, does NorthBet allow me to accumulate $1100 in Loyalty Dollars? Well, they are giving me exactly 25 cents for every $100 wagered. Not sure if mickey used his math skills to figure that out, but that's the ratio.

No sports book manager is so picayune as to shut somebody down earning that pittance.

What they did do was cut me off from promotional WagerBacks, which I had recommended to monet months ago for some of his hockey wagers. Since WagerBacks have a value maybe 50 times that of Loyalty Dollars, I'm not too happy about that. I tried to spread the wealth to these wonderful forum "APs" and got shut down myself.

[coach belly]

does limiting a bettor's wagers demonstrate that a sports book or sports book manager fears that bettor?.

As you noted, that's the question you asked.

But why muck up the discussion with your question?

Why not ask this question, which is more applicable to mickey's point...did limiting Spanky's wagers demonstrate that a sports book or sports book manager fears that bettor?

[coach belly]

the opposite of what detective Belly set out to do.

I didn't set out to do anything, I didn't pay for a background check, or hire a PI.

I simply typed the street address that ditz provided into google, and reported what information that the 3 second google search returned.

That delinquent tax bill is absolutely a red flag, considering the measly amount, and especially the ditz's ridiculous explanation of why he is delinquent.

This is someone who's been challenging forum members to $1000 bets, when he apparently owes money all over town.

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/d00fdc9...1-ebca7f90eb79

[mickeycrimm]

KJ, I could give a rats ass about what redietz thinks about SS. When he trolls me I just troll him back. But thats all just goofball stuff I don't take seriously.

What this is really about.

Redietz has stated more than once that you can't beat sports by handicapping bookie numbers. In other words, if the consensus line (sharp line) is -3 but you find one book that has it -5 you take the 5 points regardless of the teams involved. Same thing with the overs. If the sharp line is 196 but at one book you can get under 200 take it.

So we have redietz on record with the opinion that it doesn't make money. What should we do? Take redietz word for it and move on? Or should we investigate further? See what everyone else says.

Anytime I want to know about a subject I search far and wide for information. I get as many different perspectives as I can. I don't go with just one source.

Can one beat sports just by handicapping bookie numbers and looking for inefficiencies? Spanky handicaps numbers. Frank B handicaps numbers. According to redietz they can't possibly win that way. Should we leave it at that? No. Absolutely not. Redietz is just one opinion. Let's get a lot of opinions on the issue.

[mickeycrimm]

Funny vid of Spanky getting limited on a bet again. But redietz says the books aren't afraid of Spanky.

C'mon, mickey. I like Spanky's reaction to the low limit. He could have been one of our guys when we would torture the Westgate window guys just to make them yell, "Key!" And we weren't betting seriously; we were just doing it to be assholes.

Mickey, you're making a really silly, classic straw man argument here. I mean, this isn't much of a video, but I appreciate the Spanky's attitude. LOL.

The question is, to quote myself, does limiting a bettor's wagers demonstrate that a sports book or sports book manager fears that bettor?

If you seriously ask that question, you need a Sports Betting Remedial class. But, since knowledge seems to be in short supply, and savvy pretty much nonexistent on this and most forums, I will address the question. But not on this forum. I have some good stories, so I'll do some blog entries next week regarding it, just in time for March Madness.

I have to warn you, though, if you are asking that question, maybe you need to educate yourself for about two years before making another sports bet. I'll start a thread here so the local APs can demonstrate their deep and abiding brilliance. Then I'll link my blog entries when they're finished.

All I'm doing is putting up any and all information I find. That's how I do things redietz. Any and all available information.

Your problem is you don't put up any information on what you perceive as the correct way to sports bet. You just want to dangle insults.

I haven't made a sports bet in years. I already told you this is not about trying to be a sports bettor.

PS: I don't read blogs by egotistical narcissists.

Oh, and the book didn't fear Spanky just like the Cowardly Lion didn't fear Scarecrow and Tin Man. You are really full of shit on that one.

[mickeycrimm]

25 cents on $100 is easy shit to figure. It's a .25% meter. If you would have posted all the information I would have calculated it for you. I have freeplay meters at various casinos that run .1%, .2%, .33%, .4%, .5%, .8%, 1%, 2%, 2.5%.

WagerBacks would be worth 12.5%. A casino can't survive handing out that kind of freeplay....unless it is restricted to small amounts.

But the big question is....do the people you bet for let you keep the loyalty dollars?

[mickeycrimm]

It appears that handicappers have long detested steam chasers like Frank B and Spanky that snipe the numbers. They call them bottomfeeders and leeches. Why would that be?

Well, it looks like plain and simple HUBRIS to me. The fundamental analysis that the handicapper does....takes a lot of work. But the guys sniping numbers are making money with very little work. I can see why redietz would be jealous.

Red, tell us about the good old days when you were hobnobbing with Bob Martin and Vic Salerno.

[monet]

Mickey, you should probably watch the old movie, "The Runner." It's based on Billy Waters, with John Goodman playing the Walters character. It's a terrible movie, but it does capture the world of runners pretty well. Some famous actors in all the key roles.

First Off... it is not that old of a movie.
Second Thing... it's a fantastic movie!
And Lastly... you are a terrible movie critic.
One of my best pals and I used to watch it all the time as we had the VCR Tape!
Literally in our constant rotation of gambling movies.
Joe Montana wasn't just a great quarterback, he was a damn good actor too!

[redietz]

25 cents on $100 is easy shit to figure. It's a .25% meter. If you would have posted all the information I would have calculated it for you. I have freeplay meters at various casinos that run .1%, .2%, .33%, .4%, .5%, .8%, 1%, 2%, 2.5%.

WagerBacks would be worth 12.5%. A casino can't survive handing out that kind of freeplay....unless it is restricted to small amounts.

But the big question is....do the people you bet for let you keep the loyalty dollars?

WagerBacks vary depending on the game and situation, from 5% to 50%, so I was ballparking that figure, and was probably pretty close. The WagerBacks are in Free Play, not cash. Most are capped in the $250 range for the WagerBack amount.

They were offering them on a game a night or thereabouts. Occasionally more, if multiple sports were playing that night. I gave monet and the other hockey guys a heads up because they were betting nickels or thereabouts and the WagerBacks could be useful to them.

NorthBet is surviving nicely. My WagerBack days, however, appear to be done.

[redietz]

Mickey, you should probably watch the old movie, "The Runner." It's based on Billy Waters, with John Goodman playing the Walters character. It's a terrible movie, but it does capture the world of runners pretty well. Some famous actors in all the key roles.

First Off... it is not that old of a movie.
Second Thing... it's a fantastic movie!
And Lastly... you are a terrible movie critic.
One of my best pals and I used to watch it all the time as we had the VCR Tape!
Literally in our constant rotation of gambling movies.
Joe Montana wasn't just a great quarterback, he was a damn good actor too!

Glad you have that film in your rotation. My friend, Al, thinks it's great. The thing I liked best about that movie was that it actually gave a sense of the gambling temptation (and ruin) right next to the runners every second of every day if they succumbed to their weaknesses and wanted to try to make more. There was that sense that five minutes of weakness could destroy you permanently, and those of us who lived in LV and bet fair amounts, we could empathize. It was the classic cautionary tale.

Plus you can't beat John Goodman as Billy Walters.