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Thread: Professional Sportsbetting

  1. #421
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by accountinquestion View Post

    Clearly not the behavior of particularly normal men.
    No shit, sherlock!

    Originally Posted by accountinquestion View Post

    IMO the best part of it all is the average age of the active posters is probably over 50 and yet they still act like 3rd graders !! That's not a bad thing.
    No! it is a bad thing. Grow the fuck up and act like civilized adults. If all you do is lie and put people down to somehow make yourself feel better, there is something seriously wrong.
    Let me ask you a question. Who is more fucked up - the guy who complains about a forum incessantly, gets picked on and whines, yet still participates or people who all do the same thing to each other for the shits n giggles?

    Being normal isn't exactly a great thing. It means so little. Plenty of normal people are sheep. Just ask Monet. I'm happy to not have been normal and led a bullshit corporate 9-5 job buying endless shit to try and justify how I spent my life.
    VCT - the finest of all sites with only the finest gamblers one will ever encounter. Book it.

  2. #422
    Originally Posted by PositiveVariance View Post
    Originally Posted by JSTAT View Post
    Mickey Crimm on Gambling With an Edge. The YouTube version is better than the LV Advisor site

    Nice podcast Mickey. I have enjoyed all your podcast on GWAE.

    I wonder why Richard Munchkins left your name out of the title of your YouTube video? He only put it in the description. Is Mickey Crimm going incognito?

    Oh, and your shout-out to Vegas Casino Talk was great. Better yet, it was great when you calimed Rob Singer as your "Bestie" lol (I was hoping Bob Dancer would respond, but instead he went to the next topic). Maybe he is jealous of the 7 figure Video Poker hit? 35:40 mark

    But seriously Mickey, All around a good listen.
    Thanks, I had fun.
    "I'm surprised you don't know that. Stunned is a bettor word." Bob "That's Over The Line" Dietz

  3. #423
    Originally Posted by Ozzy View Post
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    Originally Posted by PositiveVariance View Post


    Nice podcast Mickey. I have enjoyed all your podcast on GWAE.

    I wonder why Richard Munchkins left your name out of the title of your YouTube video? He only put it in the description. Is Mickey Crimm going incognito?

    Oh, and your shout-out to Vegas Casino Talk was great. Better yet, it was great when you calimed Rob Singer as your "Bestie" lol (I was hoping Bob Dancer would respond, but instead he went to the next topic). Maybe he is jealous of the 7 figure Video Poker hit? 35:40 mark

    But seriously Mickey, All around a good listen.
    Like mickey, Dancer doesn't give a snot about my VP hit because they are both successful at what they do, and unlike unsuccessful people, they aren't wounded or concerned about what others do, and they don't need to fabricate conspiracy theories--only to see them totally debunked in utter shame.
    The 180 you have done towards Mickey AND Dancer is fascinating Rob.
    Soon, I'll have kew sipping warm mother's milk out of redietz' loafers....kew will then be able to count four tables and a chair, while red finally uses his calculator to count sheep.

    It's da ULTIMATE!

  4. #424
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    ROTFLMAO! Ditz is triggered again and thinks browbeating will do the trick. All you did, ditz, was show everyone just how flustered you are. Gotta call names. Put every body down. That's 2nd grade schoolyard shit. And you are the only one impressed by your so called track record in sportsbetting that you keep super secret, and has never lifted you out of living in a decrepit shack that you can't pay the property tax on in Hicktown, Tennessee. Yep, sportsbetting has just done wonders for you.
    Seriously mickeycrimm? You wrote "All you did, ditz, was show everyone just how flustered you are. Gotta call names. Put every body down. That's 2nd grade schoolyard shit"

    And then the a sentence later you call his house "a decrepit shack" and refer to "hicktown".

    Seriously. hypocritically pathetic.

    It isn't 2nd grade schoolyard shit, it is 3rd grade schoolyard shit. I realize that for some of you, 3rd grade was the best 2-3 years of your life, but grow the fuck up all ready. Go back and read the forum 6-7 years ago where Rob was the only asshole on this forum and look at it now. Rob Singer has pulled everyone on this forum down to his level.
    Once again you're wrong Kew. Jbjb has always been an asshole along with you're undefeatable nemesis.

  5. #425
    [QUOTE=redietz;155995]
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    The list is getting longer

    Professional Sportsbettors that use a mathematical approach:

    Frank B.
    Spanky
    Porter
    Capt. Jack Andrews
    Steve Fezzik
    Mathew Buchalter

    Professional Sportsbettors appearing in this thread that don't use a mathematical approach:

    Bob Dietz

    Mickey, you don't know what you're talking about. That's the bottom line. You haven't even defined "mathematical approach." You have no idea what I do or how I do it.

    DON'T KNOW ANYTHING? GO FUCK YOURSELF, LOSER. MATHEMATICAL APPROACH? YOUR HERO, WALTERS, IS NOT A HANDICAPPER. HE'S A PROFESSIONAL SPORTSBETTOR. HE'S GOOD AT GETTING THE BETS IN. THAT'S IT. THE COMPUTER GROUP DID DIGITAL ANALYSIS AND TOLD HIM WHERE THE LINES SHOULD BE. IF THE GROUP SAID THE LINE SHOULD BE -3 THEN WALTERS LOOKED TO GET THE FAVORITE AT LESS THAN -3 OR THE DOG AT MORE THAN +3. THAT'S ALL THIS SHIT TAKES, DITZ. YOU AIN'T NO ROCKET SCIENTIST. IN THE BOOK, THE SMART MONEY, WALTERS SAID A HALF POINT WAS WORTH ABOUT 7%. LOOKS LIKE A MATHEMATICAL APPROACH TO ME.

    Frankly, I have more monitored validated results than all of these put together with the exception of Fezzik. Well, that's not true, either. Throw Fezzik in there also. I have more monitored, validated results than all of these guys combined. And I can tell you, IF Fezzik defines himself as a "professional sports bettor," and that's an IF, he's not going to do it when he's in certain company.

    SO YOU ARE TELLING US YOU KNOW THE RECORDS OF ALL THESE OTHER SPORTS BETTORS? AS BIDEN WOULD SAY, C'MON MAN! AT ONE TIME YOU WERE PRAISING FEZZIK. NOW, YOU ARE THROWING HIM UNDER THE BUS. FLIP, FLOP, FLIP, FLOP.

    If you have no idea what I'm talking about, it's just more evidence you don't know what you're talking about.You have no idea what's been done historically in sports betting, you have no documented long-term results for these guys, and you don't even know what or how Fezzik defines himself. You don't know what I do or how I do it, or if what I do has changed over time.

    WE DON'T HAVE ANY LONG TERM DOCUMENTED STATS FROM YOU EITHER. WHY SHOULD I TAKE YOUR WORD FOR EVERYTHING AND NOT THEIRS? GUESS WHAT, DITZ. WHEN YOU STARTED YOU HAD NO LONG TERM STATS EITHER. TRACKING RESULTS IS A "MATHEMATICAL APPROACH." HOW MANY YEARS OF TRACKING STATS DID IT TAKE YOU TO CONSIDER IT THE LONG TERM?

    IMAGINE TRYING TO LEARN SOMETHING BUT THERE IS A PERSON REPEATEDLY TELLING YOU THAT YOU DON'T KNOW JACK SHIT IT. IS THAT WHAT THEY DID TO YOU WHEN YOU WERE A NOVICE? YOU GOT HAZED? SO NOW YOU ARE HAZING?

    You probably don't realize that, say, 30 years ago, I would have been considered at the forefront of using a "mathematical approach," depending on how you define "mathematical approach," which obviously could be defined about a thousand different ways. And I haven't much changed what I do. LOL. But now mickey friggin' crimm, in his complete ignorance and lack of defining terms, decides I don't use a "mathematical approach" because I debunk the use of "EV" jargon.

    THE ONLY PLACE YOU HAVE DEBUNKED EV IS IN YOUR MIND. EVERYONE ELSE IN SPORTS BETTING USES THE CONCEPT. YOU ARE IN A MINORITY OF ONE.

    There are people who have been running data mining programs for sports 24/7 going back decades. There are people who have sent their children to college to take programming with the primary purpose being to apply that programming to sports betting (a la certain entrepreneurs sending folks to law school).

    THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN TRYING TO TELL YOU. ONLY A DITZ, pardon the pun, WOULD THINK COMPUTERS CAN SOLVE EVERYTHING BUT SPORTS BETTING.

    You just don't know anything about sports betting. It's silly for someone like me to engage you on the subject. Can you imagine me telling you how what you do machine gambling is wrong? Mickey, you are completely and utterly out of your depth. It is the ultimate hubris to just presume/assume you have any handle on sports betting. It would be like any civilian deciding they know your machine gambling and telling you about it. You have no handle on any of it.

    MANY YEARS AGO I TOLD SOMEONE I WOULD FIGURE OUT A WAY TO BEAT CASINO GAMBLING. HE LOOKED AT ME AND SAID "THEY'RE GOING TO BREAK YOUR HEART." DID I HEED HIS WARNING? NO. HE WAS WRONG....AND SO ARE YOU. I CAN DO ANYTHING I PUT MY MIND TO. YOU HAVE NO SAY SO IN IT.
    Last edited by mickeycrimm; 03-25-2023 at 06:34 AM.
    "I'm surprised you don't know that. Stunned is a bettor word." Bob "That's Over The Line" Dietz

  6. #426
    Originally Posted by Ozzy View Post
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    ROTFLMAO! Ditz is triggered again and thinks browbeating will do the trick. All you did, ditz, was show everyone just how flustered you are. Gotta call names. Put every body down. That's 2nd grade schoolyard shit. And you are the only one impressed by your so called track record in sportsbetting that you keep super secret, and has never lifted you out of living in a decrepit shack that you can't pay the property tax on in Hicktown, Tennessee. Yep, sportsbetting has just done wonders for you.
    Seriously mickeycrimm? You wrote "All you did, ditz, was show everyone just how flustered you are. Gotta call names. Put every body down. That's 2nd grade schoolyard shit"

    And then the a sentence later you call his house "a decrepit shack" and refer to "hicktown".

    Seriously. hypocritically pathetic.

    It isn't 2nd grade schoolyard shit, it is 3rd grade schoolyard shit. I realize that for some of you, 3rd grade was the best 2-3 years of your life, but grow the fuck up all ready. Go back and read the forum 6-7 years ago where Rob was the only asshole on this forum and look at it now. Rob Singer has pulled everyone on this forum down to his level.
    Once again you're wrong Kew. Jbjb has always been an asshole along with you're undefeatable nemesis.
    And I'm the biggest asshole of the bunch!

  7. #427
    I hate to keep explaining how mickey doesn't know what he's talking about, but here's some examples.

    When I say "monitored results," that means monitored by a third party. As in publicly available after being monitored. I've been monitored my entire life. In the Wise Guys, for example, it was two games a week every week of every football season for 30 years. In the PlayBook newsletter, that meant selections in print on newsstands for more than a decade. When I mention the Bally's College Contest, that was 10 games a week every week for two football seasons. I was monitored by Buffalo's Satellite Cable Handicap Show (I have a VCR tape somewhere here), the Handicappers' Report Card publication (weekly), The Sports Monitor, "Tipsters or Gypsters?" and in print in a weekly newspaper column. Plus various other contests, including the publicly available one wherein I won 17 ATS in a row, but didn't come close to winning the contest.

    So when I say I was monitored more than all the people mickey mentions combined, I'm talking 40 years of multiple monitors.

    Now when I say Fezzik might have been the greatest NFL contest player of all time, that is arguably correct and very specific. But he was monitored in that way for just the NFL and for a limited number of seasons and just sides and just five plays a week in terms of those particular contests, mainly the SuperBook Contest.

    Thus, in comparison, I'd estimate that I was monitored more than Fezzik and everyone mickey mentioned combined. It's possible I'm wrong, but it would be at least close -- me versus everyone combined. That's my "personal EV" estimate. LOL.

    In fact, when I was 14 I kept records of me versus the AP versus the UPI versus GamePlan Magazines power ratings. I actually have those old notebooks with the predictions and results in them.

    I also have email records with my partners dating back more than 10 years. Every play has been recorded and copied and obviously these are third-party folks who can verify all of the plays. They have all gotten the same plays unless they have opted out of certain subsets (such as opting out of futures or pure middles shooting, which requires much more money). But, since I'm a nice guy, I'm not counting those emails as "being monitored."

    I didn't read all of mickey's screed, but in summary, to use his own argument regarding journalism degrees and all that:

    What qualifies a trained hobo to be able to evaluate sports bettors?
    What qualifies a slot player to be able to evaluate sports bettors?

    Mickey has attempted the classic straw man argument. I debunk "EV" as he uses the term for sports betting. His conclusion is therefore I don't use math. That is what is called a non sequitur.

    I don't want to beat a dead horse here, but despite my math ignorance, I did manage a 740 on the old SATs in math. And one of my compadres did get a perfect score. And we aren't even the probability guys on this little crew. So yeah, some of us manage to squeeze in a little math here and again.

  8. #428
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    In fact, when I was 14 I kept records of me versus the AP versus the UPI versus GamePlan Magazines power ratings. I actually have those old notebooks with the predictions and results in them.
    Redietz is a new kind of results oriented. He's been obsessed with his ranking things and not $$ since age 14. A clearer picture has yet again emerged.

    Who cares about math when all you do is play contests.
    VCT - the finest of all sites with only the finest gamblers one will ever encounter. Book it.

  9. #429
    I started this thread to learn something about sports bettors and how they operate. It was clear that redietz was not going to give any support to someone trying to learn. He's just gotten more and more intransigent. He belittles the pros that have been highlighted so far...and I think he will continue to do that. So I think the best thing to do is just ignore his caustic remarks and continue to take a look at these guys that do it professionally.

    Here's a pretty good interview of Bill Krakomberger. One of the first things he says is he loves betting dogs and stealing a half point when doing so. Sounds mathematical to me. He also says he don't watch the games. So he is a sports bettor, not a handicapper.

    Last edited by mickeycrimm; 03-25-2023 at 03:22 PM.
    "I'm surprised you don't know that. Stunned is a bettor word." Bob "That's Over The Line" Dietz

  10. #430
    There's a thread on WOV where a few members are discussing this.
    https://www.reddit.com/user/HSRiddles/

    I believe he is running at 68% on his pucks of the day across multiple sports. He also has stats for other non-picks of the day.


    I slightly disagree with 2 of the games as it seemed almost impossible to get the line he suggested. Also, he had put up a pick of the day early, but he said wasn't up yet and he wasn't sure if it would be so he added another POTD, however, I got down on his original POTD. I don't know exactly how he is coming up with his picks, something to do with some algorithm that scraps data from the internet and then he possibly adds his own personal crap. I'm, sure there are people here who understand algorithms, data scraping, etc.

    I dont know if he has an advantage or not. I didn't really care since I need to put in action for sports bonus running anyways. I would love to hear people's thoughts on this.

  11. #431
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    There's a thread on WOV where a few members are discussing this.
    https://www.reddit.com/user/HSRiddles/

    I believe he is running at 68% on his pucks of the day across multiple sports. He also has stats for other non-picks of the day.


    I slightly disagree with 2 of the games as it seemed almost impossible to get the line he suggested. Also, he had put up a pick of the day early, but he said wasn't up yet and he wasn't sure if it would be so he added another POTD, however, I got down on his original POTD. I don't know exactly how he is coming up with his picks, something to do with some algorithm that scraps data from the internet and then he possibly adds his own personal crap. I'm, sure there are people here who understand algorithms, data scraping, etc.

    I dont know if he has an advantage or not. I didn't really care since I need to put in action for sports bonus running anyways. I would love to hear people's thoughts on this.
    Running 68% on his hockey PUCKS is quite impressive !

  12. #432
    Here's an interesting article about ten sports bettors that got rich. Interesting that practically all of them had math backgrounds and developed statistical models to make their bets:

    https://www.sportsmole.co.uk/footbal...ng_473535.html
    "I'm surprised you don't know that. Stunned is a bettor word." Bob "That's Over The Line" Dietz

  13. #433
    .


    this link (at the bottom of the page) lists Rob Vinciletti as one of the top 5 money earners in NFL handicapping - the money earned is pretty small so I guess it's based on his public picks in some kind of contest each pick for a set amount - 1,752 games were monitored


    anyway, it gives his % as 53.9%


    Mike Shackleford showed that with about 2,100 games he tracked 53.75% doing nothing other than betting the away underdog


    hilarious - to me anyway


    https://capperreviews.com/steve-fezz...r-of-all-time/


    https://wizardofodds.com/games/sports-betting/nfl/


    .
    please don't feed the trolls

  14. #434
    Originally Posted by Half Smoke View Post
    .


    this link (at the bottom of the page) lists Rob Vinciletti as one of the top 5 money earners in NFL handicapping - the money earned is pretty small so I guess it's based on his public picks in some kind of contest each pick for a set amount - 1,752 games were monitored


    anyway, it gives his % as 53.9%


    Mike Shackleford showed that with about 2,100 games he tracked 53.75% doing nothing other than betting the away underdog


    hilarious - to me anyway


    https://capperreviews.com/steve-fezz...r-of-all-time/


    https://wizardofodds.com/games/sports-betting/nfl/


    .
    Interesting stuff. Shacks stats show the lines overall are pretty sharp.
    "I'm surprised you don't know that. Stunned is a bettor word." Bob "That's Over The Line" Dietz

  15. #435
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by Half Smoke View Post
    .


    this link (at the bottom of the page) lists Rob Vinciletti as one of the top 5 money earners in NFL handicapping - the money earned is pretty small so I guess it's based on his public picks in some kind of contest each pick for a set amount - 1,752 games were monitored


    anyway, it gives his % as 53.9%


    Mike Shackleford showed that with about 2,100 games he tracked 53.75% doing nothing other than betting the away underdog


    hilarious - to me anyway


    https://capperreviews.com/steve-fezz...r-of-all-time/


    https://wizardofodds.com/games/sports-betting/nfl/


    .
    Interesting stuff. Shacks stats show the lines overall are pretty sharp.
    Rusty is right on most things involving mathematics. Little else.

  16. #436
    So we have this thread over in the sports section started by redietz a couple of years ago on "do not bet parlays." Here's the link:

    https://vegascasinotalk.com/forum/sh...ot-Bet-Parlays

    I just found this 18 minute video of VSIN interviewing South Pointe sportsbook manager Chris Andrews. Andrews explains that his reason for banning Fezzik was he was always trying to get in more action on parlay cards that Andrews wanted.

    Andrews talked about Fezzik betting parlay cards, not parlays off the board. And he referred to "dead numbers." I'm not sure but I think it means numbers that don't move. The numbers on parlay cards don't move.

    I'm trying to guess what Fezzik was doing. In the books I'm familiar with the football parlay cards come out on Wednesday. I've been told this is so the numbers get hammered into place before the cards are printed. But it's 3 or 4 days to game time depending on college or NFL. Plenty of time for lines to move on the board. I think Fezzik is exploiting the line moves on the board. Similar to steam betting. If the line was -3 on Wednesday but moves to -4 a couple days later I think he takes the -3 on the parlay card. Something like that. Anyone else have an opinion?

    Here's the 18 minute video:

    "I'm surprised you don't know that. Stunned is a bettor word." Bob "That's Over The Line" Dietz

  17. #437

  18. #438
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    So we have this thread over in the sports section started by redietz a couple of years ago on "do not bet parlays." Here's the link:

    https://vegascasinotalk.com/forum/sh...ot-Bet-Parlays

    I just found this 18 minute video of VSIN interviewing South Pointe sportsbook manager Chris Andrews. Andrews explains that his reason for banning Fezzik was he was always trying to get in more action on parlay cards that Andrews wanted.

    Andrews talked about Fezzik betting parlay cards, not parlays off the board. And he referred to "dead numbers." I'm not sure but I think it means numbers that don't move. The numbers on parlay cards don't move.

    I'm trying to guess what Fezzik was doing. In the books I'm familiar with the football parlay cards come out on Wednesday. I've been told this is so the numbers get hammered into place before the cards are printed. But it's 3 or 4 days to game time depending on college or NFL. Plenty of time for lines to move on the board. I think Fezzik is exploiting the line moves on the board. Similar to steam betting. If the line was -3 on Wednesday but moves to -4 a couple days later I think he takes the -3 on the parlay card. Something like that. Anyone else have an opinion?

    Here's the 18 minute video:

    There's no real need for an option, It's +EV. No handicapping is needed.

    I was doing that in the 'late 90s- early 2000s, usually when the sports books were doing something extra special like a drawing or whatever. We did it a few years back.

    The problem is the sportsbooks don't like it, they get nasty and it's hard to get in action, The books got nasty in a few places, and I even got backed off.

    Especially after a few of those parlays come in because there's a bunch of sharps all betting it, not just you. IIRC they wouldn't let you bet it on the kiosks after a while.

    Im sure dedicated pros figure out how to get more action in.

  19. #439
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    So we have this thread over in the sports section started by redietz a couple of years ago on "do not bet parlays." Here's the link:

    https://vegascasinotalk.com/forum/sh...ot-Bet-Parlays

    I just found this 18 minute video of VSIN interviewing South Pointe sportsbook manager Chris Andrews. Andrews explains that his reason for banning Fezzik was he was always trying to get in more action on parlay cards that Andrews wanted.

    Andrews talked about Fezzik betting parlay cards, not parlays off the board. And he referred to "dead numbers." I'm not sure but I think it means numbers that don't move. The numbers on parlay cards don't move.

    I'm trying to guess what Fezzik was doing. In the books I'm familiar with the football parlay cards come out on Wednesday. I've been told this is so the numbers get hammered into place before the cards are printed. But it's 3 or 4 days to game time depending on college or NFL. Plenty of time for lines to move on the board. I think Fezzik is exploiting the line moves on the board. Similar to steam betting. If the line was -3 on Wednesday but moves to -4 a couple days later I think he takes the -3 on the parlay card. Something like that. Anyone else have an opinion?

    Here's the 18 minute video:


    Good Lord, man. What Fezzik's doing was being done 40 years ago. On this forum, I actually laid this out years ago.

    I detailed my issues with The Stardust manager at the time, who followed me from window to window to make sure the $50 parlay card limit was enforced regarding me. And I was just doing it to kill time because I had to hold my seat for two to three hours before Saturday kickoffs. There were crews who went Boyd to Boyd to max bet the cards with various lineups. I wasn't trying to clobber anyone; I was (as the guy with the bottles on his fingers says in The Warriors) just having a good time.

    I described all of this years ago on this very forum.

    You guys are wild. Why do you think, when I put down parlay betting, I carefully describe off-the-board parlay betting as the problem with the use of parlay calculators? And I make exception for parlay card, frozen number, time-staggered betting?

    Mickey, if you haven't been paying attention, it's really not my responsibility.

    This is why asking questions of somebody who knows what they're talking about tends to be a positive thing.

    And in case you haven't figured it out, choosing games that are staggered in time provides the maximum flexibility. You can hedge or middle shoot with impunity while knowing your flow chart situation.

    This is retro stuff. It was being hammered to the max 40 years ago. This is what I mean when I say there was an entire massive sports gambling culture that you folks really have no sense of, and that culture has been doing just about everything you describe for decades and decades. You just haven't been paying attention. You think it's some moderne AP shit. LOL. You're behind the times, not ahead, guys.

    God, and the talk of trends (blah, blah, 53.8% betting road dogs by Shackleford for such-and-such). After the fact trends are, well, people have been using programs to data mine trends for 30-some years. Programs were running 24/7 for every sport decades ago. The national newsletter I was in for years, PlayBook, was famous for highlighting trends.

    McCusker referred to handicappers who relied heavily on such things as "trendsvestites." He coined that phrase in the 80's.

    What annoys me most is that I told that Stardust parlay card story multiple times on this forum spread over years, and now it's being presented as evidence of some nouveau AP angle. I also said that as sports betting spread, alleged "APs" were going to try to claim magical expertise and new techniques. What's they're doing, however, is largely old hat, given some super-powers via transient promotions and bonuses. The stuff is old as the hills, and it was old school handicappers who originally exploited it.
    Last edited by redietz; 03-29-2023 at 04:13 PM.

  20. #440
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    So we have this thread over in the sports section started by redietz a couple of years ago on "do not bet parlays." Here's the link:

    https://vegascasinotalk.com/forum/sh...ot-Bet-Parlays

    I just found this 18 minute video of VSIN interviewing South Pointe sportsbook manager Chris Andrews. Andrews explains that his reason for banning Fezzik was he was always trying to get in more action on parlay cards that Andrews wanted.

    Andrews talked about Fezzik betting parlay cards, not parlays off the board. And he referred to "dead numbers." I'm not sure but I think it means numbers that don't move. The numbers on parlay cards don't move.

    I'm trying to guess what Fezzik was doing. In the books I'm familiar with the football parlay cards come out on Wednesday. I've been told this is so the numbers get hammered into place before the cards are printed. But it's 3 or 4 days to game time depending on college or NFL. Plenty of time for lines to move on the board. I think Fezzik is exploiting the line moves on the board. Similar to steam betting. If the line was -3 on Wednesday but moves to -4 a couple days later I think he takes the -3 on the parlay card. Something like that. Anyone else have an opinion?

    Here's the 18 minute video:


    Good Lord, man. What Fezzik's doing was being done 40 years ago. On this forum, I actually laid this out years ago.

    I detailed my issues with The Stardust manager at the time, who followed me from window to window to make sure the $50 parlay card limit was enforced regarding me. And I was just doing it to kill time because I had to hold my seat for two to three hours before Saturday kickoffs. There were crews who went Boyd to Boyd to max bet the cards with various lineups. I wasn't trying to clobber anyone; I was (as the guy with the bottles on his fingers says in The Warriors) just having a good time.

    I described all of this years ago on this very forum.

    You guys are wild. Why do you think, when I put down parlay betting, I carefully describe off-the-board parlay betting as the problem with the use of parlay calculators? And I make exception for parlay card, frozen number, time-staggered betting?

    Mickey, if you haven't been paying attention, it's really not my responsibility.

    This is why asking questions of somebody who knows what they're talking about tends to be a positive thing.

    And in case you haven't figured it out, choosing games that are staggered in time provides the maximum flexibility. You can hedge or middle shoot with impunity while knowing your flow chart situation.

    This is retro stuff. It was being hammered to the max 40 years ago. This is what I mean when I say there was an entire massive sports gambling culture that you folks really have no sense of, and that culture has been doing just about everything you describe for decades and decades. You just haven't been paying attention. You think it's some moderne AP shit. LOL. You're behind the times, not ahead, guys.

    God, and the talk of trends (blah, blah, 53.8% betting road dogs by Shackleford for such-and-such). After the fact trends are, well, people have been using programs to data mine trends for 30-some years. Programs were running 24/7 for every sport decades ago. The national newsletter I was in for years, PlayBook, was famous for highlighting trends.

    McCusker referred to handicappers who relied heavily on such things as "trendsvestites." He coined that phrase in the 80's.

    What annoys me most is that I told that Stardust parlay card story multiple times on this forum spread over years, and now it's being presented as evidence of some nouveau AP angle. I also said that as sports betting spread, alleged "APs" were going to try to claim magical expertise and new techniques. What's they're doing, however, is largely old hat, given some super-powers via transient promotions and bonuses. The stuff is old as the hills, and it was old school handicappers who originally exploited it.

    Iím in hickory NC then off to Bristol come learn something Fraudulent mob guy

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