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Thread: New Prime 141 steakhouse in southern Las Vegas charging 22% service charge, encouraging no tipping

  1. #1
    Prime 141 is a new steakhouse which just opened in Las Vegas, a little bit west of I-15 on the south end of the city. It's about 3 miles southwest of the South Point casino., but it's northwest of the M Casino. It is aimed at locals, not tourists.

    Vital Vegas (Scott Roeben) has showcased an interesting new pricing feature from their menu. Note that Roeben is obsessed with tip culture (he's very much for it), and in fact we've had debates before regarding tipping on huge jackpots.


    https://twitter.com/#!/x/status/1655618524067561472


    Interesting concept, but it looks a bit shady to me. They are getting killed on social media over this.

    I have long felt that tipping culture has gotten out of control in the US. Keep in mind that it's not like this in Europe. While I have lots of criticism for Europe, such as their high taxes, socialized medicine, gun control, and poor handling of crime-and-punishment issues, I am envious of their handling of consumer issues such as tipping, junk fees, and data privacy. They are much superior to the US in these last 3 areas.

    In Europe, tips are not typically expected. Restaurants tend to be the only place you tip, and the tips there are much smaller. A tip like 5%, which is considered an insult in the US, is considered satisfactory in Europe. And if there's a "service charge" in a European restaurant, it is considered customary to leave zero tip!

    However, unlike the US, restaurant servers are not dependent upon tips to make a living, and are paid a wage fitting for the position.

    It has always bothered me how inequitable tipped positions are in the US, and how arbitrary tipping is. A waiter at an expensive restaurant, or a valet at a nice hotel, will make very good money, despite having an unskilled job. At the same time, other unskilled positions (such as janitors) don't see any tips at the same establishment, while semi-skilled positions (sous chefs) make surprisingly little money -- almost always less than the waiters! And of course, a waiter at Denny's is going to make a fraction of what a waiter at a prime steakhouse will make, despite the work being almost identical.

    This results in wage inequities which don't make any sense, and appear very arbitrary. I would love to see the end of tipping culture in the US, and simply see these people paid a fair wage (not overpaid, not underpaid) by the company. If the company needs to raise prices to accommodate that, no problem. But the tipping stuff is just so stupid and has gotten insane.

    But back to this situation...


    On the surface, it would appear that Prime 141 is attempting to go toward that model. Instead of seeing these lucrative tips disproportionately go to the waitstaff, they are instead charging a 22% service fee in place of the tip, and claim to be using it to provide better wages, healthcare, and paid time off for all employees.

    Isn't that a good thing?

    Not necessarily. They are not clear enough about how much of this 22% is really going toward the employees. It appears that they're simply pocketing the 22%, while also giving better wages/vacation/healthcare to their employees, and claiming the 22% goes toward those better benefits/wages. However, if they're not spending the entire 22% on employee wages and benefits, then they are essentially pocketing some of this auto-tip, which is obnoxious. It's not clear if they are or aren't, but the ambiguous language is very suspect.

    Why are they stating that tips aren't expected? Because otherwise people wouldn't return to this place, if they felt they were expected to both pay a 22% service charge AND an 18-20% tip. So they're telling you not to bother tipping, and to let them take care of their own employees. That would be nice to see if all 22% was definitely going to the employees, but I have my doubts.

    Cruise lines pull a trick like this. The auto-gratuity you're forced to pay -- usually around $15 per passenger per day -- does NOT go to the hardworking crew! It is pocketed by the cruise line, and is actually used to allow themselves to pay crew LESS than the maritime minimum wage (which is already low), and let these "tips" pay the difference! This was done in order for cruise lines to pocket more of customers' money, rather than seeing generous cash tips handed out to various employees onboard, which of course wasn't doing the cruise lines themselves any good. Cruise employees begrudgingly accepted this change because these are highly coveted jobs by people in the third world.

    Anyway, how would you feel if you saw this on a menu? Would you tip anyway on top of this? Would you go back to this place?
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  2. #2
    Very good post Druff. Pointing this out is useful.

    While your suspicions are justified the ability for already cheap people to subsidized by generous people has always kinda bothered me. So I would give them some pass.

    There is definitely an implied suggestion that the 22% is all going to employees but there is no real reason to thin that without transparency.

    That being said this VitalVegas guy is lol. There is some psycho on twitter who has it in for him. Maybe not psycho but they friend you as soon as you clown on Scott and are blocked. Scott is a total shill. He ingratiates himself to waitstaff and CEOs at the same time while being pro tip culture. It makes sense.

    He appears to sorta make stuff up to get clicks but lol whats new. Probably getting the hookup at this place. I'd like to see some of the cringe moments while he negotiates comps.
    It is official. Redietz will never be on Dan Druff's podcast. "too much integrity"

  3. #3
    Druff I don't think your belief about the inequitability of certain classes of workers being tipped makes sense from the liberal (in the economics sense) point of view.

    The obvious analysis is that if waiters at expensive restaurants are "unskilled" but earn high incomes there should be a large supply of people competing to get those jobs, and since the actual wage portion of their compensation is minimal (perhaps even the legal minimum), the effect will not be to depress wages but to allow expensive restaurants to hire the waiters that contribute the most to the restaurant's profits - by upselling to get bigger and more profitable orders, by ingratiating themselves with customers to encourage repeat business, by not messing up orders - in short by using their skills.


    tl;Dr having worked a few labor jobs I doubt that any job is truly unskilled. It's just a category used by labor statisticians.

    I happen to not like the institution of tipping for other reasons though.

  4. #4
    Who the Fuck is going to go to this place anyways?
    I've lived in Vegas for most of my life and never even heard of it.
    This is nothing.
    Continue on.
    Business as usual.
    And stop crying about the slaves who make your food for you.
    You know they drop it on the floor and spit on it all the time don't you??
    I've worked in kitchens.
    Seen it a million times.
    Not to mention serving the public, food, that is spoiled.
    Servers remember when you don't tip or leave a small tip.
    You're all getting Fucked and don't even know it... LOL.

  5. #5
    Originally Posted by monet View Post
    Who the Fuck is going to go to this place anyways?
    I've lived in Vegas for most of my life and never even heard of it.
    This is nothing.
    Continue on.
    Business as usual.
    And stop crying about the slaves who make your food for you.
    You know they drop it on the floor and spit on it all the time don't you??
    I've worked in kitchens.
    Seen it a million times.
    Not to mention serving the public, food, that is spoiled.
    Servers remember when you don't tip or leave a small tip.
    You're all getting Fucked and don't even know it... LOL.
    It just opened like 2 weeks ago.

    That's why you haven't heard of it.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  6. #6
    22% auto tip is complete extortion! Like I've said many times, tipping 80% + of the time is ridiculous. You would be amazed on how many of these tipped employees make well over 100k/year(most tax free) for jobs that MOST people off the street can do. The main reason being is many people feel obligated and/or intimidated to do so. Heck even adamant vocal cheapskates like Druff tip 15%, what does that tell you? I've seen a LOT of obscene tips over the last 25 years.They are making out like bandits, for the work they do!

  7. #7
    Originally Posted by Ozzy View Post
    22% auto tip is complete extortion! Like I've said many times, tipping 80% + of the time is ridiculous. You would be amazed on how many of these tipped employees make well over 100k/year(most tax free) for jobs that MOST people off the street can do. The main reason being is many people feel obligated and/or intimidated to do so. Heck even adamant vocal cheapskates like Druff tip 15%, what does that tell you? I've seen a LOT of obscene tips over the last 25 years.They are making out like bandits, for the work they do!
    That's some top tier shit.
    Most servers aren't pulling no 100 grand per year.
    Far from it.
    You'd have to average four bills a night on a 5-day work week.
    The dinner rush isn't even close to long enough to do that.
    You don't work breakfast, lunch and dinner and breakfast and lunch tips pretty much suck.
    And it isn't something anyone can just do off the street.
    I'd love to see you work a 6 or 8 top and constantly get in the weeds.
    It's not as easy as a job as you make it sound.
    Either don't tip or just make your own food at home.
    Enjoy the spit in your Cobb Salad.
    And you can trust that those dinner rolls you have eaten have hit the floor many times over the years you broke bread.
    Try not to think about it too much but if you eat Fast Food (Hamburgers) I guarantee you have eaten pubic hairs.

  8. #8
    This would have been good if they didn't automatically add a 22 percent service charge in lieu of a tip. MOST People auto tip 20 percent, so this is two percent WORSE than what MOST People already auto tip. They should have just said something like,"We're following the European model of no tipping at all, so we've completely abolished the tip and we will just charge tax. " That would have gotten them praise, applause, lauded, and accolades if they had gone the "No tip," route. Then other Restaurants could have followed the example like what happened when just ONE Hotel started Resort Surcharge when Resort Surcharges hadn't happened before, and then a bunch of other Hotels added Resort Surcharges too.
    https://photos.app.goo.gl/Zk2WAFzDcrJ7pjNB7

    Take comfort in the fact that no one is actually backing up his wishes to have you permanantly banned.


    Smart is knowing a Tomato is a fruit.

    Wise is knowing a Tomato doesn't belong in a fruit salad.



    I am glad to get my full posting rights back! Thank you Dan!

  9. #9
    Originally Posted by Tasha View Post
    This would have been good if they didn't automatically add a 22 percent service charge in lieu of a tip. MOST People auto tip 20 percent, so this is two percent WORSE than what MOST People already auto tip. They should have just said something like,"We're following the European model of no tipping at all, so we've completely abolished the tip and we will just charge tax. " That would have gotten them praise, applause, lauded, and accolades if they had gone the "No tip," route. Then other Restaurants could have followed the example like what happened when just ONE Hotel started Resort Surcharge when Resort Surcharges hadn't happened before, and then a bunch of other Hotels added Resort Surcharges too.
    The 22% surcharge is charged separately instead of rolling it into the price, likely as a trick in order to keep their rent down.

    Many restaurants have a deal with landlords where they pay a very reduced rent, but pay a percentage of gross receipts. Service charges like this are excluded from these gross receipts (since the restaurant claims it's there in lieu of a tip, and results in better pay/benefits for employees), so this way they can sent less to the landlord.

    That's my guess as to why it's not just part of the general price of the food. It's also possible that it's there in order to make people feel like they're tipping when they're not tipping, as otherwise they will feel funny when they leave and don't put any tip on the bill. Here they see 22% already charged.

    Someone on Twitter said you can just remove the 22% if you want, as Nevada law allows you to do that. This is actually true. I found this out in 2005 when I had a horrendous service experience at a restaurant at Bellagio, yet was forced to leave 18% because we had a big group. When I complained to the manager the next day, he said I could have removed the 18%, which I definitely would have if I knew (I can't stress how terrible the service was!)

    However, in this case, since it's an independently-owned business and not part of a casino, you wouldn't be advised to remove the 22%. It's likely they would tell you never to come back.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by monet View Post
    Originally Posted by Ozzy View Post
    22% auto tip is complete extortion! Like I've said many times, tipping 80% + of the time is ridiculous. You would be amazed on how many of these tipped employees make well over 100k/year(most tax free) for jobs that MOST people off the street can do. The main reason being is many people feel obligated and/or intimidated to do so. Heck even adamant vocal cheapskates like Druff tip 15%, what does that tell you? I've seen a LOT of obscene tips over the last 25 years.They are making out like bandits, for the work they do!
    That's some top tier shit.
    Most servers aren't pulling no 100 grand per year.
    Far from it.
    You'd have to average four bills a night on a 5-day work week.
    The dinner rush isn't even close to long enough to do that.
    You don't work breakfast, lunch and dinner and breakfast and lunch tips pretty much suck.
    And it isn't something anyone can just do off the street.
    I'd love to see you work a 6 or 8 top and constantly get in the weeds.
    It's not as easy as a job as you make it sound.
    Either don't tip or just make your own food at home.
    Enjoy the spit in your Cobb Salad.
    And you can trust that those dinner rolls you have eaten have hit the floor many times over the years you broke bread.
    Try not to think about it too much but if you eat Fast Food (Hamburgers) I guarantee you have eaten pubic hairs.
    I'm very aware of your position tipping wise(literally polar opposite of mine). The fact remains MANY of these tipped employees make 50$+ hour AKA IF they work 40+ hours a week they would make 100+k year. If it takes 20+20 or 15+15+10(multiple jobs) then so be it. Many of these people can EASILY survive on only 2 shifts a week. The McDonalds grunt working there ass off, makes 1/3rd or less per hour and is forced to work 40+ hours to EEK out a living.

  11. #11
    Originally Posted by Tasha View Post
    This would have been good if they didn't automatically add a 22 percent service charge in lieu of a tip. MOST People auto tip 20 percent, so this is two percent WORSE than what MOST People already auto tip.
    Earth to Tasha, earth to Tasha.

    Check your second grade math ... LOL

    Then again, perhaps you didn't type what you meant to say?
    Last edited by MisterV; 05-09-2023 at 05:54 PM.
    What, Me Worry?

  12. #12
    Originally Posted by monet View Post
    Originally Posted by Ozzy View Post
    22% auto tip is complete extortion! Like I've said many times, tipping 80% + of the time is ridiculous. You would be amazed on how many of these tipped employees make well over 100k/year(most tax free) for jobs that MOST people off the street can do. The main reason being is many people feel obligated and/or intimidated to do so. Heck even adamant vocal cheapskates like Druff tip 15%, what does that tell you? I've seen a LOT of obscene tips over the last 25 years.They are making out like bandits, for the work they do!
    That's some top tier shit.
    Most servers aren't pulling no 100 grand per year.
    Far from it.
    You'd have to average four bills a night on a 5-day work week.
    The dinner rush isn't even close to long enough to do that.
    You don't work breakfast, lunch and dinner and breakfast and lunch tips pretty much suck.
    And it isn't something anyone can just do off the street.
    I'd love to see you work a 6 or 8 top and constantly get in the weeds.
    It's not as easy as a job as you make it sound.
    Either don't tip or just make your own food at home.
    Enjoy the spit in your Cobb Salad.
    And you can trust that those dinner rolls you have eaten have hit the floor many times over the years you broke bread.
    Try not to think about it too much but if you eat Fast Food (Hamburgers) I guarantee you have eaten pubic hairs.

  13. #13
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Prime 141 is a new steakhouse which just opened in Las Vegas, a little bit west of I-15 on the south end of the city. It's about 3 miles southwest of the South Point casino., but it's northwest of the M Casino. It is aimed at locals, not tourists.

    Vital Vegas (Scott Roeben) has showcased an interesting new pricing feature from their menu. Note that Roeben is obsessed with tip culture (he's very much for it), and in fact we've had debates before regarding tipping on huge jackpots.


    https://twitter.com/#!/x/status/1655618524067561472


    Interesting concept, but it looks a bit shady to me. They are getting killed on social media over this.

    I have long felt that tipping culture has gotten out of control in the US. Keep in mind that it's not like this in Europe. While I have lots of criticism for Europe, such as their high taxes, socialized medicine, gun control, and poor handling of crime-and-punishment issues, I am envious of their handling of consumer issues such as tipping, junk fees, and data privacy. They are much superior to the US in these last 3 areas.

    In Europe, tips are not typically expected. Restaurants tend to be the only place you tip, and the tips there are much smaller. A tip like 5%, which is considered an insult in the US, is considered satisfactory in Europe. And if there's a "service charge" in a European restaurant, it is considered customary to leave zero tip!

    However, unlike the US, restaurant servers are not dependent upon tips to make a living, and are paid a wage fitting for the position.

    It has always bothered me how inequitable tipped positions are in the US, and how arbitrary tipping is. A waiter at an expensive restaurant, or a valet at a nice hotel, will make very good money, despite having an unskilled job. At the same time, other unskilled positions (such as janitors) don't see any tips at the same establishment, while semi-skilled positions (sous chefs) make surprisingly little money -- almost always less than the waiters! And of course, a waiter at Denny's is going to make a fraction of what a waiter at a prime steakhouse will make, despite the work being almost identical.

    This results in wage inequities which don't make any sense, and appear very arbitrary. I would love to see the end of tipping culture in the US, and simply see these people paid a fair wage (not overpaid, not underpaid) by the company. If the company needs to raise prices to accommodate that, no problem. But the tipping stuff is just so stupid and has gotten insane.

    But back to this situation...


    On the surface, it would appear that Prime 141 is attempting to go toward that model. Instead of seeing these lucrative tips disproportionately go to the waitstaff, they are instead charging a 22% service fee in place of the tip, and claim to be using it to provide better wages, healthcare, and paid time off for all employees.

    Isn't that a good thing?

    Not necessarily. They are not clear enough about how much of this 22% is really going toward the employees. It appears that they're simply pocketing the 22%, while also giving better wages/vacation/healthcare to their employees, and claiming the 22% goes toward those better benefits/wages. However, if they're not spending the entire 22% on employee wages and benefits, then they are essentially pocketing some of this auto-tip, which is obnoxious. It's not clear if they are or aren't, but the ambiguous language is very suspect.

    Why are they stating that tips aren't expected? Because otherwise people wouldn't return to this place, if they felt they were expected to both pay a 22% service charge AND an 18-20% tip. So they're telling you not to bother tipping, and to let them take care of their own employees. That would be nice to see if all 22% was definitely going to the employees, but I have my doubts.

    Cruise lines pull a trick like this. The auto-gratuity you're forced to pay -- usually around $15 per passenger per day -- does NOT go to the hardworking crew! It is pocketed by the cruise line, and is actually used to allow themselves to pay crew LESS than the maritime minimum wage (which is already low), and let these "tips" pay the difference! This was done in order for cruise lines to pocket more of customers' money, rather than seeing generous cash tips handed out to various employees onboard, which of course wasn't doing the cruise lines themselves any good. Cruise employees begrudgingly accepted this change because these are highly coveted jobs by people in the third world.

    Anyway, how would you feel if you saw this on a menu? Would you tip anyway on top of this? Would you go back to this place?

    Wow the free speech king has fallen . Now writing restaurant reviews after Verionca (Hoover) brill canceled you for your post on PFA. Lol you let these losers silence you and you take down the post ? Wow bro cancel culture can get the best of anyone I guess. Sucks at poker and spend all day like the rest of freaks in poker looking for attention on twitter.

    That freak play2winthegame from Cincinnati Ohio area even had the tiny balls to talk trash on you. I had a problem with his stupid ass last year him and that loser Rizzo on twitter. We just sent the paparazzi to Ohio and Indiana to document this idiots movements. For a rainy day you know, these kids get a few hundred thousand and think they run shit. Nah they don’t so if you need assistance with these queers let me know.

    Can’t believe you caved to the mob druff smh. Man up mother fucker

  14. #14
    Originally Posted by MisterV View Post
    Originally Posted by Tasha View Post
    This would have been good if they didn't automatically add a 22 percent service charge in lieu of a tip. MOST People auto tip 20 percent, so this is two percent WORSE than what MOST People already auto tip.
    Earth to Tasha, earth to Tasha.

    Check your second grade math ... LOL

    Then again, perhaps you didn't type what you meant to say?
    I was saying that I think an automatic 22 percent service fee instead of tip is a horrible idea. Most people tip 20 percent anyways. So, the Customers are actually paying more with the automatic 22 percent service fee than they would with a 20 percent tip.
    https://photos.app.goo.gl/Zk2WAFzDcrJ7pjNB7

    Take comfort in the fact that no one is actually backing up his wishes to have you permanantly banned.


    Smart is knowing a Tomato is a fruit.

    Wise is knowing a Tomato doesn't belong in a fruit salad.



    I am glad to get my full posting rights back! Thank you Dan!

  15. #15
    Anyone care to elaborate on the PFA post about Brill that Seedvalue mentioned?

  16. #16
    Originally Posted by smurgerburger View Post
    Anyone care to elaborate on the PFA post about Brill that Seedvalue mentioned?
    It wasn't about Brill. It was about a female Vegas local named Lindsey, regarding an incident she had with a male poker player at Venetian. Long story. I did take the post down because the girl hadn't done anything wrong, and my tone about her was far too judgmental.

    The Veronica Brill thing came a day later. She took that opportunity to tell everyone in poker to cancel and unfollow me over the Lindsey thing, simply to get herself more attention. This was especially offensive for three reasons:

    1) She does a podcast with a guy who makes tons of controversial and politically incorrect statements and Twitter posts. When he does this, she says nothing, yet wants to cancel me over one post.

    2) On that podcast, Veronica herself bashes people all the time, including other women.

    3) I was extremely supportive to her, both publicly and privately, during the Mike Postle cheating allegations she made, and in fact got myself sued for $330 million due to my supportiveness. She and I were also the only people to actively fight the Postle defamation suit, and our two lawyers somewhat worked together on the matter, while Veronica and I would discuss things behind the scenes. So this was a huge knife in my back, by someone who at the very least should have stayed out of this Lindsey thing, which had nothing to do with her.



    So why is she trying to literally cancel me for the same type of statements made by her podcast partner Nick Vertucci?

    Because I'm no longer useful to her, while Nick is helping her get the constant attention she craves.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

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