Free play comp whoring doesn't last forever.

[Alan Mendelson]

Free play doesn't last forever, nor does comp whoring.

Over the past two years, my free play offers from Pechanga have steadily decreased. The first decrease came after a nice run of big winners.

Then, when I started to only "play through" the free play and cash out, the free play offers decreased even more.

For the last several months the weekly free play was reduced to $50. Today in the mail came my weekly offers for July -- one FIVE DOLLARS per week. For $5 it's not even worth pulling into the self park garage, let alone driving an extra half mile (round trip) off Pechanga Parkway on my way to Rincon.

But I am not surprised, nor am I disappointed. The truth is comp whoring and betting only free play money can't last forever. When I expressed this opinion on the LVA message board I was burned at the stake for telling those comp whores that checking into more than one hotel simultaneously, and milking multiple casinos for their free play and rooms and other comps could not and would not last forever.

[Rob.Singer]

Right you are, although a place or two may send you another decent package after they "miss" you for a while. My massive amounts of comps, freeplay, gifts etc. has been reduced to almost nothing these days, although it took quite a while for it to stop.

[redietz]

Alan, my friends who play at Pechanga inform me that your winning and play-through of free play probably were not much of an influence on your reduction. Everybody, no matter style or amount of play, has had free play radically reduced. Video poker folks, blackjack players, slot players -- all had free play slashed.

I also have seen no evidence that simultaneous free room usage had much if any bearing on free play or comp reductions. Unless people who did that had their free play reduced more than everybody else, I don't see how you can draw that conclusion. In fact, since you don't do that, and your free play has been slashed, it seems to indicate that simultaneous room use had little to do with it.

[Alan Mendelson]

The issue is not winning... the issue is not play-through. The issue is I didn't lose enough to have them keep sending me $50 per week of free play.

When you also book free rooms and fail to justify the free rooms, you also get dropped from the free room offers.

Do you think the casinos give out free rooms and free play because they are just being generous? I knew this day was coming and I have no sense of entitlement that it should continue. Do you think you're entitled to free play and free rooms when you don't play and don't lose?

[redietz]

Entitled? The casinos are the enemy. I'll take whatever I can get. I'll create whatever illusions are necessary. I didn't sign any contracts -- "Here, if I lose, I'll get comped; if I win, I won't." No sirreee, no contracts like that. I will squeeze them like tomatoes in a vice.

If casinos fail to exist tomorrow because players like me torture them, so much the better.

[Alan Mendelson]

Entitled? The casinos are the enemy. I'll take whatever I can get. I'll create whatever illusions are necessary. I didn't sign any contracts -- "Here, if I lose, I'll get comped; if I win, I won't." No sirreee, no contracts like that. I will squeeze them like tomatoes in a vice.

If casinos fail to exist tomorrow because players like me torture them, so much the better.

Okay, redietz, I understand your position and we all try to get as much as we can. But let me ask you this question:

Do you think you can "check in" to multiple casinos on the same trip, and continue to receive similar "free stay, free hotel" offers without the casinos checking to make sure your play justifies the continued offers? And if you are taking the casinos for their free play, after how long do you think the casinos will re-evaluate just how much free play you will get during the next "term"?

I've been told casinos "re-evaluate" their offers and your play every three to six months. That tells me your "advantage play" won't last forever.

[redietz]

I have done multiple bookings only once or twice in my life -- and that was just for free rooms, not any major free play concurrent with the rooms. I don't play/lose enough at any one property to garner much free play. So I don't do the things that seem to bother you. But I see no problem with people booking concurrent stays. It's not betrayal of some kind. It's people maximizing their profits -- nothing wrong with that. The places I prefer to stay are so inexpensive that whether I get free rooms or not these days doesn't mean a whole lot. I'm an Orleans/Gold Coast/Bill's/Rio/LVHilton guy -- if they don't comp me, I'll live.

[Alan Mendelson]

redietz, you'll have to explain this to me: why would you book simultaneous nights at different hotel/casinos if you were not getting free play with the rooms?

the advocates of booking rooms at different hotels for the same nights do it for the free play available along with the rooms. If youre not getting the free play, why "waste" the free rooms? Why not save the "free rooms" at the second property for another trip?

[arcimede$]

Most casinos have an algorithm based on the amount you play for determining how much freeplay a person gets.

Alan, as your freeplay was going down was your play consistent? From what I've read it sounds like you were playing there less. Why would you expect to get the same freeplay when you played less?

[Alan Mendelson]

Most casinos have an algorithm based on the amount you play for determining how much freeplay a person gets.

Alan, as your freeplay was going down was your play consistent? From what I've read it sounds like you were playing there less. Why would you expect to get the same freeplay when you played less?

I only started to play less at Pechanga when they cut my free play. They cut my free play after a lucky streak over a three month period. When they cut my free play I looked for another place to play and that's when we started going to Rincon.

Ironically, this past January when I hit my first royal in 170,000 hands, Rincon also cut my free play. However, I was told that at the same time Rincon was cutting everyone's free play. But the coincidence still sticks.

[arcimede$]

Casinos continually look at promotions and make adjustments. From what redeitz stated it appears Pechanga also cut the freeplay for everyone.

Keep in mind that freeplay was originally conceived of as a "rebate" of sorts. That is, the reason for it's existence was to compensate for losses. It would not surprise me at all if some casinos used an algorithm that factored in wins/losses. I know most of them don't because they want to avoid situations where a player thinks they are being cheated because they got lucky. However, it's still possible here and there. Of course, if that's the case you should look for ways to make it appear you are losing more.

[redietz]

I had people in town besides me, so if were based, say, in the LVHilton, but were going to spend time at night downtown, then I'd concurrently book the downtown room. Same if we were going to see a strip show or something. If we were LVH-based, but were seeing a show at the Rio that night, then concurrently booking a Rio room or Gold Coast room made sense. No sense blowing cab fare getting back to the LVH or cutting the night short due to logistics of who's driving where.

[Alan Mendelson]

redietz, that's not what I was talking about. Heck, Ive stayed at one hotel and used comps to have friends and relatives stay at other hotels at the same time for family events, parties, etc.

What I am talking about is when the same player will simultaneously book rooms with two different hotel/casinos and check in to both hotel/casinos to get the free play offer from both casinos. I said that doing that would dilute your play and would lead to a reduction in offers in the future and it was a short-sighted strategy.

[Alan Mendelson]

Casinos continually look at promotions and make adjustments. From what redeitz stated it appears Pechanga also cut the freeplay for everyone.

Keep in mind that freeplay was originally conceived of as a "rebate" of sorts. That is, the reason for it's existence was to compensate for losses. It would not surprise me at all if some casinos used an algorithm that factored in wins/losses. I know most of them don't because they want to avoid situations where a player thinks they are being cheated because they got lucky. However, it's still possible here and there. Of course, if that's the case you should look for ways to make it appear you are losing more.

I've been saying all along that free play was based on losses. By the way a strategy to make it appear you are losing more could help you "play" the free play system and this has led players to remove their players cards when dealt a winning hand in video poker. Some claim that removing the card will "trick" the computer, and others say it will not. I don't know.

I was told by a host at Caesars that removing your card when dealt a winning hand and recording the win with your card removed from the machine will "trick" the computer. But hosts can be wrong about their information too.

I do know that several years ago when I had a huge win playing craps, the win was not recorded by the floorman. However, that hurt me probably as much as it helped me with my "casino rating" because there was also no record that I was at the table for some 6 hours of high level play. So while the casino records did not show the "win" the casino also did not have an accurate record of my time and bet level for that trip.

[arcimede$]

Alan, I don't believe freeplay is based on losses at very many casinos. It wasn't at Sams, SP or Stations when I played there just to name a few. At the casino I play at now it is based on average trip coin-in. You should ask your host or other regular players at a casino if they how it works. You might find out or they may just shrug their shoulders.

As for card pulling. It varies depending on the card reader itself. Many have been updated recently to only look at the card when the game begins. This nullifies card pulling. However, there are still some systems that are beatable. The only way to really find out is to track it yourself.

[redietz]

I don't see any ethical difference between using free rooms different places simultaneously and using free play different places simultaneously. That's why I couldn't figure what you were concerned about. In the free room scenario, you're supposedly stiffing the casino your use of restaurants, shops, and other amenities. In the free play scenario, you're stiffing them some play. Of course the less you play, the more likely your offers drop -- that goes without saying. Now that Caesars and MGM are tying use of restaurants, clubs, spas, shops, and shows directly into their slot programs, not using these things likely affects your rating directly also.

[Rob.Singer]

Casinos continually look at promotions and make adjustments. From what redeitz stated it appears Pechanga also cut the freeplay for everyone.

Keep in mind that freeplay was originally conceived of as a "rebate" of sorts. That is, the reason for it's existence was to compensate for losses. It would not surprise me at all if some casinos used an algorithm that factored in wins/losses. I know most of them don't because they want to avoid situations where a player thinks they are being cheated because they got lucky. However, it's still possible here and there. Of course, if that's the case you should look for ways to make it appear you are losing more.

With all that time you have on your hands, you'd think you'd know better than to say freeplay was meant as a "rebate". Casinos don't care about covering part or all of one's losses. They care about two things: making a profit off of its players, and GETTING THEM BACK IN AFTER THEY LEAVE THE FRONT DOORS. DUH!

[Alan Mendelson]

I don't see any ethical difference between using free rooms different places simultaneously and using free play different places simultaneously.

This is not a question of ethics. This is a question of properly using your comps. Comps are based on your rating at a casino.

If you go to Las Vegas and register for a room at hotel A, and at the same time you get a room at hotel B, and you do this to use the free play in the offer, but neither of the casinos is getting most of your play, it could jeopardize your future comps at one of the casinos or even both. The comps do have a requirement.

I think you are better off taking one offer at one casino -- hotel and free play -- concentrating your play there and avoiding the "bogus check in" at the other casino. You accomplish two things doing this: you preserve your "record" at casino A, you avoid damaging your "record" at casino B. And if you take both offers simultaneously you could ruin your rating at both.

Case in point (though hotel was not involved): When I go for day trips to Rincon, I would stop by Pechanga to play what little free play they also gave me. I played through those $50 a week offers at Pechanga while they lasted, and now that the numbers have caught up with me, I've been reduced to $5 a week.

You can't milk the caisno offers indefinitely without them catching on to what you are doing. It appeared those folks over on LVA never thought of that. They thought grabbing the money -- ever dollar of it on every trip -- was smart in the short term and the long term. So I wonder how many of those comp whores are still getting the offers they used to get?

[Alan Mendelson]

Alan, I don't believe freeplay is based on losses at very many casinos.

I've never read a column by Bob Dancer when he talks about getting free play. Does he get it or is he disqualified for it based on his winnings, just as he says he has been disqualified for certain other bonus drawings and promotions because of his winning?

[Rob.Singer]

First Alan, if you have CLOSELY followed Dancer's writings in order to determine what's truth and what's bs, you would see how in one column he claims to be "restricted" at a property, yet in another he blabs about the "edge" he has as he plays on there. He did this several times at the Palms, at least three times at Terribles, at Stations, Same Town, and the M from memory. And guess what? He still plays everywhere and pays no mind to anyone "probably" having read his earlier contradictory articles. The guy is in business to make money off of other people, and to get an income from the casino consulting business. He makes nothing directly from the machines. My being banned from playing,at the Silverton for winning not really a significant amount in 8 or so visits right after reading him say how he puts $250,000 thru the machines there "with an edge" every month means he either loses a chunk there or he's lying. If he were winning anything at that level compared to my piddly amount of play, they'd never let him near another machine again.

For most of my pro playing career I regularly played at nearly every major casino in Nevada multiple times, received piles of offers from them all, and just as regularly checked into at least four hotels on every trip for their freebies, food, free shows, cash gifts, etc. I just made sure to spread out my play at each place at intervals. It was easy and the comps flowed like thinning blood.