Apparently you don't even need to hire a programmer to make an adjustments as I did 6-7 years ago. Some models have a standard USB port where the program change can be introduced. And it can EVEN be done remotely by phone.
I think my favorite line is towards the end, after they make it clear cards can be put in any order desired, they say something about having a leap of faith to trust the casinos and casino industriy....ah yeah those guys.
Dan Druff: "there's no question that MDawg has been an obnoxious braggart, and has rubbed a ton of people the wrong way. There's something missing from his stories. Either they're fabricated, grossly exaggerated, or largely incomplete".
The biggest scam isn't what these machines are capable of doing (and we are trusting a corrupt industry not to do), but that the gaming commissions (plural) have known about this for some time now and have done nothing.
You don't expect the foxes that are stealing hens from the henhouse to police themselves, but when the person hired to sit there and guard the hens does nothing about the foxes coming in and out....then you have a real problem.
I have just been waiting for this to become a big issue. I'm not sure this little video is going to do that. But when you have major hackers conventions doing demonstrations on hacking into the various shuffle machines....something is going to break soon.
Dan Druff: "there's no question that MDawg has been an obnoxious braggart, and has rubbed a ton of people the wrong way. There's something missing from his stories. Either they're fabricated, grossly exaggerated, or largely incomplete".
We should have a poll on who is more trustworthy. KFraud or the casinos?
Actually this thread is a study in both how stupid UNKewlJ is and how little it takes to get him on the wrong track.
I spent a little time on this and wrote the below post up at WOV, but the gist is that you DO need a programmer - a small team of them - and a lot of time just to get to the point of learning how to get into the machine and read what the camera is reading. Also, even after putting in all that time, the hackers never got to the point of reordering any cards, just thought that it could be done.
Point being that this is why UNKewlJ had such a hard time with coming up with a believable, consistent, logical "backrooming fable." It takes someone like him YEARS to wear his lying stories smooth enough for public consumption, and he just didn't have enough time to get that whopper straight. The three months over which he unfolded the tale were clearly not enough!
Left to shoot from the hip, "study up" for just a matter of hours or days, he falls flat and ends up EXPOSED as the compulsive liar that he is.
Last edited by MDawg; 08-15-2023 at 08:07 PM.
I tell you it’s wonderful to be here, man. I don’t give a damn who wins or loses. It’s just wonderful to be here with you people.
MDawg Adventures carry on at: https://www.truepassage.com/forums/f.../46-IPlayVegas
Don't suffer through that video.
The summary is here
https://www.wired.com/story/card-shu...0machine%20and
and it doesn't conclude with that they were able to change the order of anything, and the article is written before anything was actually presented, but according to the article the team was supposed to present later that day their findings of that inserting something into the USB port on the Deckmate 2 should be able to gain access to its camera to then know what the machine knows about the order of the cards in there.
According to their findings, in theory if someone could stick something into the machine at the tables and then transmit that information to someone's nearby phone via bluetooth that information about the order of the cards could be analyzed and conveyed back to a person at the tables via coded signals, and used for cheating.
In other words, that supposedly there is a way to gain access to the camera inside this Deckmate 2 shuffler (under laboratory conditions) to know the order of the cards inside the machine via the USB port on the machine. The programmers thought that there might be a way to access it without plugging in a USB device, if the machine was connected via cellular connection to the manufacturer for monitoring, and they could tap into that communication line.
The programmers did not figure out a way to "reprogram" the Deckmate 2 machine to put the cards in any particular order, although they stated that they believed that this too could be done. These guys had the machine's password, they did not hack it, and it took a very long time to figure out how to do what they did. Probably without that password, they would have taken even longer to access the machine.
They thought that the older model Deckmate 1 machine could be hacked to reorder the cards, or to not shuffle the cards at all, but only if the chip inside the machine itself were physically accessed and somehow reprogrammed, which would take some effort, again, take a long time to figure out and do.
If someone can find the notes from what was actually presented at the August 2023, Black Hat security conference in Las Vegas, and not just what they assumed was going to be presented, that might shed more light on this.
Deckmates are 1 deck shufflers, used in poker rooms.
My understanding is that possibly the reason this Deckmate is vulnerable to this sort of hacking is not just because it has a camera in it to read the cards, but because of its "wheel" design where there ends up just one card per slot, placed into a wheel with 52 slots (or more if there are jokers). The cards are loaded until all the slots are full, and then the machine unloads the cards into a platter for distribution. During some point in the process the camera reads each card, maybe just to determine that all cards are present in the slots and none are duplicated. That sort of slotted wheel design with just 1 card per slot wouldn't really work I don't think for a multi deck shuffler, but in any case, this slotted wheel / one card per slot design combined with a camera might be what makes this machine susceptible.
Someone who knows more about the mechanics of this machine and other shuffling machines could probably analyze the data from these hackers even better. Someone, of course, OTHER than that thieving lying low down no good varmint, UNKewlJ.
I tell you it’s wonderful to be here, man. I don’t give a damn who wins or loses. It’s just wonderful to be here with you people.
MDawg Adventures carry on at: https://www.truepassage.com/forums/f.../46-IPlayVegas
You guys continue to try to make everything about me. You are completely obsessed with efforts to try to discredit me, even if you have to hijack discussions.
This isn't about me.
I think the mistake that was made early on by the manufacturer was even letting it be known that these machines had the capability to put the cards back in sequential order. Once that was known, then you KNOW they have the capability to put the cards in any order desired. There just can be no arguing that.
After that, it has always been a discussion about that leap of faith described. You are trusting that this very predatory industry that does so many questionable things, takes so many things right up to the line and even routinely crosses the line, would never do such a thing.
MaxPen or anyone else that has spent any reasonable amount of time in casinos and playing against casinos, I just can't imagine you genuinely making that leap of faith, if you weren't somehow trying to tie it to your ongoing efforts to troll and discredit me.
When this case comes....and it will come. It will be mindplay all over again. Casinos abusing the technology in a way that is clearly illegal (non-random shuffle). And the result will probably be similar. A slap on the wrist and told to stop doing that.
What should occur would be a class-action suit against both the manufacturer and casinos that used this technology on behalf of millions of players that played against these machines. THAT would send the message, but I am sure that will not occur. It will be another slap on the wrist, until the next time they illegally abuse technology.
Gaming commissions as they now stand, even if they had the desire to police all the advances in technology, they don't have the manpower or expertise to do so. It is just a joke. Even more so than gaming commissions have always been.
It's like playing a football game where the referee is the son of one of the coaches.
Last edited by kewlJ; 08-15-2023 at 08:28 PM.
Dan Druff: "there's no question that MDawg has been an obnoxious braggart, and has rubbed a ton of people the wrong way. There's something missing from his stories. Either they're fabricated, grossly exaggerated, or largely incomplete".
Might be possible with this particular type of single deck machine. I think the simplicity of having just 1 card / slot is part of why. Still, the programmers themselves did not do it, just said it could be done. They only got as far (supposedly anyway) as using the machine's own camera to be able to see the order of the cards, not change them.
As far as a multi deck shuffler, different animal I assume.
In any case, this article doesn't make you other than still a liar with regards to the shuffling machine dispute you have or had ongoing with AccountInQuestion and the others. And that's why you brought it up, no?
Last edited by MDawg; 08-15-2023 at 08:34 PM.
I tell you it’s wonderful to be here, man. I don’t give a damn who wins or loses. It’s just wonderful to be here with you people.
MDawg Adventures carry on at: https://www.truepassage.com/forums/f.../46-IPlayVegas
Yes, it is a different animal, but the same principal and technology. The capability is there and has been since day 1 of these machines.Originally Posted by MDawg
Look, I am not putting too much stock in this particular video. Hell, half the time they were showing a domed CSM (continuous shuffle machine), with the cover removed, when they were talking about an ASM (automatic shuffle machine). So this video isn't some great piece of work. But the fact remains as soon as the machine had the capability of putting cards back in sequential order, they have the capability of putting cards in any order they desire. Players are then just trusting that this industry would never do such a thing.
Dan Druff: "there's no question that MDawg has been an obnoxious braggart, and has rubbed a ton of people the wrong way. There's something missing from his stories. Either they're fabricated, grossly exaggerated, or largely incomplete".
Forget about the card clumping that I and others have talked about over the years. Lets just take something as simple as keeping some of the aces within a group of non-10 value cards. Not ALL of the Aces, just some. What would that do? Well instead of seeing a blackjack every 21 hands, you might see a blackjack every 26 or 27 hands. The average player wouldn't even notice that. The average card counter probably wouldn't even notice that for quite a while. And the house advantage would dramatically increase.
Gaming commissions simply do not have the resources or expertise (let alone desire) to monitor and enforce this kind of technological advances. They are in WAY over their head. It is like Andy Griffin and Barney Fife trying to stop an organized crime syndicate, or worse yet, Andy and Barney trying to stop a group of overseas hackers from hacking into Mayberry's banking system.
Last edited by kewlJ; 08-15-2023 at 08:49 PM.
Dan Druff: "there's no question that MDawg has been an obnoxious braggart, and has rubbed a ton of people the wrong way. There's something missing from his stories. Either they're fabricated, grossly exaggerated, or largely incomplete".
Why do you think casinos pay the equivalent of a dealer's week worth of pay every month for the damn things?
Didn't KFraud's programmer that he hired solve it in a few minutes? Maybe he should hold a symposium at the next convention. Show all those hackers what's up....lolOriginally Posted by MDawgMight be possible with this particular type of single deck machine. I think the simplicity of having just 1 card / slot is part of why. Still, the programmers themselves did not do it, just said it could be done. They only got as far (supposedly anyway) as using the machine's own camera to be able to see the order of the cards, not change them.
As far as a multi deck shuffler, different animal I assume.
In any case, this article doesn't make you other than still a liar with regards to the shuffling machine dispute you have or had ongoing with AccountInQuestion and the others. And that's why you brought it up, no?
You pathetic liar. This video says nothing new outside of there being a usb port on the rear of the machine. He doesn't hack it. His whole video is about it being plausible. I don't disagree with that. Infact, I have a legitimate story where I have a strong suspicion about rigged shufflers being bought by a private entity and put into a poker game. I'm not going to go into the story because these things have a way of being figured out but I'd tell anyone in person.Originally Posted by kewlJ
Apparently you don't even need to hire a programmer to make an adjustments as I did 6-7 years ago. Some models have a standard USB port where the program change can be introduced. And it can EVEN be done remotely by phone.
I think my favorite line is towards the end, after they make it clear cards can be put in any order desired, they say something about having a leap of faith to trust the casinos and casino industriy....ah yeah those guys.
Where does he say you can make adjustments to it!??! He doesn't. You don't know it can be done by a phone. That is his conjecture and he even says as much.
Your story is bullshit. You are full of bullshit. Half of what you type is bullshit.
This dude had literally no clue about hacking it. His point is "the hardware has the capacity to read the cards and there is a usb plug on the back". It is just a crap video for people who are clueless much like yourself.
13k for the refurbed machines. How does a redchipper throw around 13k? No programmer cracked this thing in 15 minutes. It might very well be possible but it is going to take a very talented highend hardware programmer weeks to do it if it is even possible.
There is absolutely no way that you hired someone to do this let alone in 15 minutes.
Your story is bullshit. You said "Angel" gave you a little smile as he "punched in the code" to activate it. This would only happen if they know you are a counter. Wait whaaat. Hows that work Mr no one I know counts but they someone know you as a counter and have let you continue playing there?
Why wouldn't the mode always be on if they don't sweat the table?
Your fantasy bullshit about anonymous people contacting you and threatening you. Same old shit. No one knows these people just like every AP you reference.
Give it up dude.
It is official. Redietz will never be on Dan Druff's podcast. "too much integrity"
Truth be told, I never understood why they were willing to pay that rent. Some places have tables with machines that they pay rent on sit there 5 days a week and only used them 1 or 2 weekend nights, or maybe an extra day during a holiday or big event weekend. Then you have both types of machines ASM and CSM breaking down constantly requiring a ton of maintenance. You see people working on them at the table and you see them being swapped out so they can work on them in the back. There has to be a cost to all that extra maintained that they didn't originally count on when the pitch was made about what these machines would make for them by saving down time and increasing rounds played.Originally Posted by MaxPen
A similar thing occurred with casinos spending on technology, surveillance equipment, facial recognition, evaluation software, to thwart card counters, who they were told were a thread. In the end they spent $5 for every $1 they saved by "catching" card counters.
Last edited by kewlJ; 08-15-2023 at 10:38 PM.
Dan Druff: "there's no question that MDawg has been an obnoxious braggart, and has rubbed a ton of people the wrong way. There's something missing from his stories. Either they're fabricated, grossly exaggerated, or largely incomplete".
I would pay quite a bit for a machine that allows me to have the equivalent of a team of professional card mechanics on staff if I was a casino. Even if I was only going to make use of it one night a week or whatever. Might even be worth it for holiday weekend use only.Originally Posted by kewlJTruth be told, I never understood why they were willing to pay that rent. Some places have tables with machines that they pay rent on sit there 5 days a week and only used them 1 or 2 weekend nights, or maybe an extra day during a holiday or big event weekend. Then you have both types of machines ASM and CSM breaking down constantly requiring a ton of maintenance. You see people working on them at the table and you see them being swapped out so they can work on them in the back. There has to be a cost to all that extra maintained that they didn't originally count on when the pitch was made about what these machines would make for them by saving down time and increasing rounds played.Originally Posted by MaxPen
A similar thing occurred with casinos spending on technology, surveillance equipment, facial recognition, evaluation software, to thwart card counters, who they were told were a thread. In the end they spent $5 for every $1 they saved by "catching" card counters.
That is why I asked the question.
Yea I watched the video and your article. These guys sound like posers. They made no advances. They just say "well something could be done but we were not able to do anything". Kewl calls them "high level hackers" GTFO. LMAO.Originally Posted by MDawg
Kewl, you clueless dufus. Absolutely nothing new here.
The fact is that with the proper work the chips that control the hardware could be replaced or reprogrammed. So yes it is clearly possible. This is nothing new.
They wouldn't get anywhere if they said "We bought shufflers and could't make them do one thing but hey they have a usb port on the back". That would be a better description.
I really believe I know of a couple of instances where the shufflers were used to cheat. Just too many circumstances fit together for it to not more likely than not. This doesn't mean your story is true. You just read bits and pieces here and there and pull it out your butt.
Your story was believable until you started getting into details. Then you just hang yourself for someone who has half a clue what you're talking about.
How it went down makes no sense. It implies it was off but they turned it on because they knew you were a counter. The guy who did it actually had the need to acknowledge it on some level (minor point.) If it had no heat then I'd expect it to always be on? Why wouldn't it be?!?!?
These 3 guys bought it and put extensive work and research into it. They got nowhere. You hired a guy who did it in 15 minutes? THese guys probably tried to go forward for days and days. Yet you call them "high-level". lol where'd you find your programmer to hire Kewl? Craigslist?
Give it a rest.
Last edited by accountinquestion; 08-15-2023 at 10:55 PM.
It is official. Redietz will never be on Dan Druff's podcast. "too much integrity"
lmao. They sort the cards dumbass. Of course everyone is going to know about that. How and why could that ever be kept a secret?!?!?Originally Posted by kewlJ
Why would they have the feature if they can't let it be known!?!?
Kewl, STOP IT.
I asked you to REPENT from your lyin' ways but you refuse.
Shameful. You should google what "shame" is because it is something you don't understand or you'd have some.
It is official. Redietz will never be on Dan Druff's podcast. "too much integrity"
Fuck off AccountinQuestion. You complain about redietz being condescending and talking down to people. That is all you do to me. You are 10x worse.
Act like a decent human being.
Dan Druff: "there's no question that MDawg has been an obnoxious braggart, and has rubbed a ton of people the wrong way. There's something missing from his stories. Either they're fabricated, grossly exaggerated, or largely incomplete".
Oh yea and don't be mean to Redietz. I saw you turned on him on GF. That man has suffered enough forum pain. Be kinder.
It is official. Redietz will never be on Dan Druff's podcast. "too much integrity"
Stop your goddam lying. You lied to me. It was believable enough I repeated it a few times. It worked because of the credibility you have built up on these forums over the years.Originally Posted by kewlJ
Yes I am very condescending to you. I asked you to repent and see the light of being a bit truthful here and there.
I am treating you little differently.
My heart slowed for a beat when I called you a dumbass. I can take it back. Not here to be mean outside of your lying.
Same thing with Redietz. I'm not going to drag Redietz into this because he didn't ask for it. He annoys the crap out of me but I don't care to go on after the shit talking is done.
BTW my Redietz post above was written without Kewl bringing our man Redietz up.
It is official. Redietz will never be on Dan Druff's podcast. "too much integrity"
I am not known for reading things closely and thoroughly but I didn't get that they accessed the cameras. Really that doesn't make sense unless the machines were made to stream video off the usb port but lets just agree that isn't possible. That is as likely as Kewl hiring a guy to crack it at all - let alone 15 minutes.Originally Posted by MDawgMight be possible with this particular type of single deck machine. I think the simplicity of having just 1 card / slot is part of why. Still, the programmers themselves did not do it, just said it could be done. They only got as far (supposedly anyway) as using the machine's own camera to be able to see the order of the cards, not change them.
As far as a multi deck shuffler, different animal I assume.
In any case, this article doesn't make you other than still a liar with regards to the shuffling machine dispute you have or had ongoing with AccountInQuestion and the others. And that's why you brought it up, no?
If that feature was not built-in (camera->usb) then they would have to change something in the code itself which they didn't do.
It is official. Redietz will never be on Dan Druff's podcast. "too much integrity"
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