Another of arci's "Theories" Disproved In AC.

[Rob.Singer]

I'll post the link at the end, and hopefully I did it correctly.

Another poster sent me this a few months ago. In short, you know how arci's always blabbing about how no major casino would EVER take a chance at being fined "millions of dollars" or having their doors shut by a state's gaming commission, for altering the machines they have in service or putting ANY machine on the floor that did not strictly comply with gaming commission regulations?

Well, it must be strike 28 for arci in his made up fantasy world of how everything in casinos are clear, balls-on b&w that complies with regulations to the letter. Here we see that two of the most famous casinos in the country owned by Trump were using slot machines that were not certified or approved to be used on the floor of either of those two casinos.

So what extraordinairy catastrophe happened to these casinos? Were they fined these "millions of dollars" that arci swears would happen, or were their doors shut causing thousands of dollars in lost revenue for both the casino owners and the state in tax revenue? Nope--not even close, and let this be yet another lesson for anyone who believes in ANYTHING a hack like arci posts as "fact" on gaming forums everywhere.

Both casinos were fined alright, but "millions of dollars" just doesn't seem to be part of the equation. And for good measure in further humiliating arci and his phony paranoia, after the fines were deducted from the profits those machines created, there was still six figures in profits remaining for each casino because they used them!

Just another piece of evidence of what can and does happen under the watchful eyes of the gaming commissions. If Wall Street can do it in the billions, what the beck do you think casino owners will continually do? Oh wait! They're afraid their DOORS WILL SHUT!

http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/n...871e3ce6c.html

[redietz]

Doesn't surprise me at all. The Nevada Gaming Commission is about as honest as that bastion of integrity, the Nevada State Athletic Commission. Anybody watch the Pacquiao fight?

Why would a commission side with consumers against the tax revenue entities that enable the commission to exist?

[Rob.Singer]

Because arci says so?

[redietz]

Also, note that the gaming commission did not "discover" any of these machines. Yet no explanation of why not. Think about that. The article purposefully skips the discussion of why these machines were not detected by the gaming commission.

[arcimede$]

This is absolutely hilarious. Once again we see how far wheels will go to claim he's right. First of all, these were slots. Second, as far as I can tell the machines would have been perfectly legal if the proper paperwork had been filed. Essentially, this entire episode is about someone forgetting to file the paperwork. But our resident laughing stock thinks that means something nefarious happened. Did I mention this was hilarious. I guess he hit his head harder than I thought.

[redietz]

This article would've gotten a "Fail" in any college journalism course. It was very protective of the casinos.

1) No mention that it is the commission's duty to have detected the machines.
2) No mention as to how or why the commission failed to do so.
3) No comparison of the winnings of these machines versus the winnings of similar kosher machines of the same type and denomination. No report on whether the earning were in any way different.


When these key elements are left out, and they are obvious questions anyone would ask, I have to wonder why. Just really, really bad journalism?

[Rob.Singer]

Good questions.

The best part here is watching arci scramble around in circles searching for a way out of yet ANOTHER corner he painted himself into with all his "casinos would never risk millions in fines (now proven to be a laugh)" and "they're slot machines"mea culpas.

The most poignant dagger for our friend is how he is never right about anything when he yaps about how casinos would never be caught doing anything wrong. They're in bed 24/7 with the gaming commissions and have a three-way (sorry arci) going with the state tax department. If a machine were found to be out of spec--which they never check for anyway--it's the same type of violation and penalty as this was....and this may have been far worse.

Arci, better hurry up and do some more face-saving damage control before the issue gets all over the Internet....with your name attached! Why, that would be a fate worse than....um....worse than what you have to go thru now. Yikes!!

[Alan Mendelson]

I remember this article being discussed on another forum -- I think Wizard of Vegas. The machines were not rigged. The problem is that paperwork wasn't filed and the lack of paperwork means the appropriate revenue wasn't paid to the state, whether it was a fee for the machine's use, or tax on profits, or whatever.

Actually, it has nothing to do with any discussion about machines being rigged. It was a paperwork, tax issue from what I understand.

Had the machines been rigged, the story would have been much different. And I don't think a casino would risk having rigged machines. Paperwork violations can be an oversight.

But if a casino knowingly had rigged machines it would face more than a fine -- it would lose the confidence of players.

[redietz]

Alan, for argument's sake, how the heck do you know the machines weren't rigged? The casino self-reported the machines -- as far as the gaming commission was concerned, these machines did not exist on premises. So if they were rigged, they would be unrigged prior to the self reporting.

How can you possibly know they weren't rigged? And why would you assume they were not?

[Alan Mendelson]

Alan, for argument's sake, how the heck do you know the machines weren't rigged? The casino self-reported the machines -- as far as the gaming commission was concerned, these machines did not exist on premises. So if they were rigged, they would be unrigged prior to the self reporting.

How can you possibly know they weren't rigged? And why would you assume they were not?

Let me throw it back at you, redietz: how do you know they were rigged? There was no mention of it in the newspaper article. There was no mention of the machines being rigged on the other discussion group, or by players who played there who are members of the discussion group.

I don't jump to conclusions. I read what I read. Now, if you have information that the machines were rigged please post it here. However, ALL slot machines are rigged to a certain degree. Slot machines are designed to give a certain number and frequency of wins. It's video poker games that are supposed to be 100% random.

[redietz]

That "losing the confidence of players," whatever that means, is a nice theory, but the casinos that have been caught rigging drawings have not been damaged financially. So whether they "lost the confidence of players" or not, they sustained no big hit in terms of income.

I wonder how many other "ghost" machines exist.

[redietz]

I didn't say they were rigged, but I understand the limits of my knowledge. Stating that they were not rigged is pure speculation. If Trump, one of the big names, can have 30 unregistered machines, how likely is it that other casinos have ghost machines?

[Alan Mendelson]

That "losing the confidence of players," whatever that means, is a nice theory, but the casinos that have been caught rigging drawings have not been damaged financially. So whether they "lost the confidence of players" or not, they sustained no big hit in terms of income.

I wonder how many other "ghost" machines exist.

Is there a source that shows the number of casinos that rigged slot machines and cases of rigged machines? I only know of the rigged machines at small "gas station" and "convenience store" casinos where it was impossible to get a royal flush. I have never heard of a case of rigged machines at any major casino in the United States, nor have I heard of a case of a rigged machine involving a major machine maker.

Doing a Google search, I did find a case where players altered a machine http://articles.latimes.com/1985-03-...1_slot-machine but that wasn't the casino that did the rigging.

Besides Rob Singer and redietz, I don't know of anyone who supports the notion that casinos and game makers rig machines.

I am not referring to rigged drawings, redietz. I want to see the reports about casino rigging machines.

[Rob.Singer]

Just like you would have preferred to see the Wall Street reports of their corruption?

Obviously, the state gaming commission & tax collection office, the manufacture, and the casinos protect one another, and catching small entities is a part of that protection. I'll say it in English again: No gaming commission will EVER make a finding that would damage the tax revenue and employment levels in its state. Just as we saw in the Atlantic City finding, the casino was fined a very small amount, and it did not have to repay any of its profits realized by the illegal machines. Why? Because of what I just said.

Watching arci post responses to this is very similar to watching that dork David Axelrod scramble to respond to Obama's truly dumb statement a few days ago that "the private sector is doing fine". Like arci, he wants and needs others to think he's smarter than everyone else, yet he has no way to deliver that BS to people he knows are really smarter than him. It was just as much fun watching him try every method of controlling damage as it is seeing arci bury himself in front of everyone's eyes.

[arcimede$]

If there would have been rigged machines this story would have been much bigger. It's very likely the same machines are in many casinos where the paper work was properly filed. That's why this is a non-event. As much as some folks would like to make this into a big deal, it obvious is nothing but an accounting error.

However, it does demonstrate the ability of wheels to do any critical thinking at all. Totally hilarious. This gets right to the core of his intellectual capabilities. Zippo.

[redietz]

If I were managing a casino in Las Vegas, the chances of me getting caught rigging a machine would be negligible.

Alan, why don't you tell the audience how often Gaming Control actually checks the vp machines? And tell us what procedures are in place to prevent the inspection schedule from being leaked.

[Alan Mendelson]

If I were managing a casino in Las Vegas, the chances of me getting caught rigging a machine would be negligible.

Alan, why don't you tell the audience how often Gaming Control actually checks the vp machines? And tell us what procedures are in place to prevent the inspection schedule from being leaked.

I sense a trick question. Is there also a system of random checks of machines? So let me ask a few questions.

We know that certain procedures have to be followed if a casino elects to change the chip in a machine after delivery to a casino.

If you doubt the legitimacy of the machines why do you play?

I have no doubts about the legitimacy of the machines in the casinos where I have played. Can you give me ONE example of why I should be concerned? Just one.

Redietz, you claim to be a long term winner at video poker. Is this because you were told of a rigged machine in your favor?

[Rob.Singer]

If there would have been rigged machines this story would have been much bigger. It's very likely the same machines are in many casinos where the paper work was properly filed. That's why this is a non-event. As much as some folks would like to make this into a big deal, it obvious is nothing but an accounting error.

However, it does demonstrate the ability of wheels to do any critical thinking at all. Totally hilarious. This gets right to the core of his intellectual capabilities. Zippo.

Right on queue with an Axelrod-type response. Deflect the issue away from what was exposed and hope dumber people buy it.

Every machine that is not certified, whether it's because of misfiling of paperwork or because of something inside, is the same problem with a gaming commission. Why? Because what's the reason the paperwork was incorrectly filed? Something inside the machine they want to hide? You see arci, if you had any business sense and were allowed out of the geek room when you worked, you'd know a heck of a lot more about how the world of business operates.

I know Alan you really don't want there to be any non-random machines around, because you probably play more than anyone here. But just as you are always asking for "written proof or you won't believe it" on what I said about the confidential portions of the regulations, where is your written proof of machine checks, snap inspections, and how no one has ever worked on the slide with these inspectors to fill their pockets? I know in all my time at machines, I've never once seen anything even remotely associated with an "inspector verifying anything", and the only people I've seen opening machines have been techs fixing something. Even more, every time I interviewed a casino exec I always asked about how often or when do the gaming inspectors show up. They all said whenever new machines are put in service--and they only look at ONE of them--and whenever there's a complaint. They said there were never random checks anywhere. It's all perception, and there's no proof of any kind that anything ever happens beyond any of that.

[arcimede$]

Right on queue with an Axelrod-type response. Deflect the issue away from what was exposed and hope dumber people buy it.

Sorry, the article was quite clear this was simply a case of missing paperwork that the casino itself reported. Only a complete fool thinks this is anything serious.

Every machine that is not certified, whether it's because of misfiling of paperwork or because of something inside, is the same problem with a gaming commission. Why? Because what's the reason the paperwork was incorrectly filed? Something inside the machine they want to hide? You see arci, if you had any business sense and were allowed out of the geek room when you worked, you'd know a heck of a lot more about how the world of business operates.

So, if they were trying to hide something just why did they turn around and report it? Simple logic makes your above claim the ravings of a total lunatic. But hey, we already knew you were not very quick. Silly special plays, playing negative machines, believing in a magic progression and trying to assert they have a validity if you set win goals. These truly are the thoughts of someone that's mentally unhinged .... or a con man.

I know Alan you really don't want there to be any non-random machines around, because you probably play more than anyone here. But just as you are always asking for "written proof or you won't believe it" on what I said about the confidential portions of the regulations, where is your written proof of machine checks, snap inspections, and how no one has ever worked on the slide with these inspectors to fill their pockets? I know in all my time at machines, I've never once seen anything even remotely associated with an "inspector verifying anything", and the only people I've seen opening machines have been techs fixing something. Even more, every time I interviewed a casino exec I always asked about how often or when do the gaming inspectors show up. They all said whenever new machines are put in service--and they only look at ONE of them--and whenever there's a complaint. They said there were never random checks anywhere. It's all perception, and there's no proof of any kind that anything ever happens beyond any of that.

The casinos are required to report on all the machines. If the machines were rigged those reports would show win values above what should be expected. Hence, you only need to do a few random checks to validate the machine reporting is correct to determine if the casinos are cheating. This is all simple business statistics applied to gaming. What can I say that the above foolish rant by wheels doesn't say for itself.

Twilight Zone stuff from the Outer Limits. Do do do do .... Alan, now you know why I called him a d.... It applies so perfectly.

[slingshot]

So, I guess next there's gonna be something about them keeping track of the player's cards and administering the payouts according to payouts/losses accumulated.