Originally Posted by
Mission146
It seems like a good listen; let's find out. (This is the multi-card one)
Oh, right, you're not talking to me. Oh well. I'll talk to everyone else.
INTRO-3:00: Well, there it is from a dark sider for any fucking retards who don't believe that substantial money is made by multi-carding. I really don't understand people who would claim this doesn't happen anyway.
"In some cases, it can be as much as 200% advantage."
What does he mean by that? Is he saying that the expectation is that the card runner will ultimately triple his coin-in? A 200% advantage would be I play $5,000 coin-in and my expectation is to profit $10,000.
Hmm...I guess he might be right, in some cases. 200% of all initial coin-in sounds kind of high to me, though. Often more than 100% of all initial coin-in, for sure.
3:00-5:00: He says that it would, "Have to be in that $100 average range," to generate offers. I assume he is referring to ADT. I don't even think that is strictly true unless some of the places I've done it simply treat everything as slots and grade the ADT as 10% of all coin-in. Even then, there are offers at tiers below the tier that I was doing there, which took less coin-in. He should just say it varies. There's really no minimum. Shit, there might even be some places thay would E-Mail you $5 Free Play, or something, even if you got a card without ever playing anything. Who knows? There's no one answer.
5:00-8:00: All accurate.
8:00-10:00: "The programs aren't designed to reward the player who takes advantage of it; the programs are designed to reward our loyal customers-the loyal customers who walk through our door and play every time."
Why doesn't this guy just say to reward the long-term losing gamblers? REWARD!? They aren't, 'Designed,' to reward anyone. They are designed to create the perception of value for losing gamblers so that they will return. How disingenuous!
10:00-17:00:. This is mostly fine. He does mention people just going up and saying, "My name is XXXXXX XXXXXX," and getting a player's club card without presenting ID. He says that's an exception to the rule, but that's one hell of a weird exception when it happens at all. What is someone running cards going to do? Is he saying they are going to try every Players Club representative until he gets the one that doesn't check ID? I guess that would be theoretically possible, but I seriously doubt it. Too much exposure to test a long shot outcome, for one thing.
If I had to guess, when that happens at all, the players club representative almost certainly has to be in on it. It's not something that I think someone would risk exposure just to test all willy-nilly.
After that, he talks about fake ID's. I don't think that happens often. I have certainly never seen that happen. For one thing, I think you're getting into criminal territory, at that point. The times I have actually gone to the desks and gotten cards, the person was the one doing it and presented their own ID. Generally, the individual is compensated for the card and agrees to what's going on. When I've taken people, without getting into too much detail, I've always given them an idea of what the benefit is to the purchaser. Even though I doubt anything worse than simply being 86'ed would ever happen to the cardholder, I do want them to be making an informed decision.
Another thing that can sometimes happen is that hosts might print cards for people who have not arrived yet, but then that's on the host. Somebody could also know a host and get cards printed that way. Either way, anything that is NOT fake ID sounds like a staff training issue or surveillance/oversight issue...so you really can't blame the multi-card people for that.
17:00-21:00: Haha! I know who he's talking about!
21:00-22:00: I guess I don't know who he's talking about. The people I'm thinking of would not use fake ID's. Maybe he means THEIR OWN ID's are fake. I guess that's possible; how would I know?
22:00-25:00:. This guy is mostly being fair, so far. If he just wanted to make folks look bad, then he would say people are using stolen cards. As he correctly points out, cards that have already been used wouldn't have any value to people unless they somehow knew the offers were good. They'd also have no way of changing the PIN as long as staff is doing their job. Finally, you'd have the problem that the person would likely complain about their offers being gone, then staff would go to surveillance and would see who used the card and would know the card had been stolen. That would cook an entire operation, potentially.
So, I will say I appreciate him being honest and saying nobody is using stolen cards. Generally speaking, ignoring this fake ID thing...which I have literally never seen happen...these people give their permission for the AP's to use the cards. Obviously, the AP's HOPE that these people do not go in and claim their offers are being stolen. Any of these people getting the players cards, if they were underhanded, clever and savvy, could do just that and would end up with the offers.
But, even that wouldn't make much sense for them to do. What would make the most sense is for them to simply change the PIN and ignore calls and texts, then they would get the offers.
25:00-28:00: People who have never done anything along these lines will find these three minutes very interesting.
28:00-31:00: A 5% edge is a lot. Almost as high as double-zero Roulette. I don't think there are very many people doing this at only 5%, all things considered. Way too low.
31:00-35:00: The host suggests nobody is watching us because there's nothing to watch for. First of all, that's not strictly true. They start looking for us, but usually not until they have actually realized that they are being hit and have been being hit for quite some time. Secondly, depending on what, specifically, we are doing...or where we are at in the process...there are tells they could look for. We don't necessarily do things just like anyone else would. We try to blend, obviously, but there are some tells if you know what you're looking for.
In fact, if someone is recruited to get a card (as opposed to already working with that person or team) then there are some smack you in the face obvious tells even when they are signing up for the card. I obviously won't say what those are, but they exist. The people would just have to know what to look for and actually document it.
35:00-35:30 This host is obsessed with, 'Homeless people.' I'm sure you'd sometimes use homeless people, but generally, the people getting cards have not been homeless in anything I have participated in. Why would I go around asking random homeless people? No. They are not making $15/hour and the person whose name the card is in generally doesn't do any playing or touch any money. In fact, the playing is often not even done on the same day that the card is obtained...unless there's some sort of active promotion unrelated to backend mail.
If I were to take someone out to Atlantic City, for example, 12 hours round trip, and they get food + $500, then that is $41.67/hour. They're also not homeless. They're just a person who could use $500 for one day of sitting in a car. You don't have to be homeless for that to have value to you.
On a local play that needed cards, I think they were paying $75 per card and it was a total of an hour and a half for the people from my neck of the woods (at the time). That's $50/hour. That's also a decade ago. If the same play happened now, I would want that they be offered $125 MINIMUM or I would refuse to even ask anyone.
35:00-39:00: MISSOURI!!!??? What's good in Missouri? I've never heard Missouri. Probably Harrah's NKC, or something, CET properties might still market completely independently in local/regional places, but if they don't now, they definitely did before.
39:00-40:00: I told you guys the sky can see our phones. Some people didn't believe me that the cameras were good enough on that. Some people I've worked with have known that. They could also see them almost a decade ago. The guy being interviewed is right. I only know because I could almost do it with the hotel's cameras...and those cameras were shit. If it was a picture, I could zoom and tell what the picture was of. I couldn't quite read text, but that was usually because of glare. If I had any editing know-how, then I probably could have cleaned the glare up somehow.
SO IF WE WORK ON ANYTHING ELSE QUIT FUCKING TEXTING ME WHEN I AM INSIDE!!! THE RESULTS WILL BE THE RESULTS. You know who you are. LOL
40:00-43:00: Is it illegal? "No." This guy is fair. There are ways it could become illegal, which he gets into, but it is not illegal in and of itself.
And it's ABSOLUTELY NOT FUCKING WIRE FRAUD!!! FUCK YOU, OCEAN RESORT ATLANTIC CITY SECURITY GUY!!! NO, I DON'T FEEL BAD FOR CALLING YOU THAT.
43:00-45:00: I read that as he had forty cards on him when they popped him. Anyone interpret that differently? My advice is don't do that. You should have, at most, two on your person at any given time. Just imo.
45:00-49:00 Some guys might already know this stuff, but even people on the AP end of things should listen to this. Do not do social media (publicly viewable) under your actual names. Or, if you do, DO NOT be friends with anyone on the socials who are in your operation.
49:00-51:00: Smart. I'm shocked it took as long as it did for them to figure that one out.
51:00: Well, anyone who wants to know a non-LV and non-AC area that was good can now. Probably still good. You're going to need to take some precautions since they're looking for it now.
51:00-55:00: We call that, "No-Mailed." You're not 86'ed. Nice. One play I was on the casino just went absolutely nuclear with trespasses and almost certainly 86'ed people who had nothing to do with us, any other team and probably weren't even actually trying to exploit the promotion! LOL. I'm not laughing at the people; I'm just laughing that the casino would do that.
55:00-55:30: I think they're more worried about their name (and maybe picture) hitting searchable things that they are a petty charge for defiant trespass.
Good recommendation, Mick; it is weird that you were brought up. I guess they were just naming someone who discusses plays. Yeah, I've never heard of you to multi-card.
I'd recommend this for everyone. Most people who have done this won't learn anything new. Maybe one or two things. Great video for people who don't know how it works.
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Thank you Dan! 
