Team beating continuing shuffling machine

[Half Smoke]

.

first - this post is not about KJ or his ability to do this if that's what he claimed - and I don't know if it is - and I don't really care
I am posting about it for this reason -
iirc some on this site had ridiculed the idea of beating a shuffling machine
there is a thread re this on blackjacktheforum.com which I have linked

the contributor I am quoting is Eliot Jacobson a well respected gambling expert who has a Ph.D in Mathematics and has been a Professor of both Mathematics and Computer Science

I am also linking a brief bio of Eliot

here are his comments from this thread:

"I just read the OP, because, honestly some people who reply here don't have a clue.
There was a time (at least a decade ago) when "listening" to the CSM was possible and was used to beat the machines. The preferred game was Casino War, though other games may also have been vulnerable. If the team happened to find very old CSM's, this could very well be what is going down -- you could definitely track specific cards through the machine. My sense is that another thing to look for (if this is overseas) is a "split for less" team. This is very popular right now in certain Asian locations."


after this post a different poster posted this:


"The machine sound effect is legit.
Sequence card @6 decks csm is legit.
Card-counting @4decks csm is legit
Basic strategy +e.v @csm with sur A and Xtra doubling is legit."


and then Eliot responded:


"Yep.
I don't want to say anything more about the sound thing because that one is especially dicey given my direct knowledge of specific instances from the surveillance side."


I know very little about this - and I never tried it


But I have trust in Eliot Jacobson's words re advantage play




https://www.888casino.com/blog/writers/eliot-jacobson


https://www.blackjacktheforum.com/sh...-the-CSM/page2


.

[kewlJ]

Good discussion Half Smoke. Players have known how to beat these machines (CSM) for a decade now. There are multiple ways that I know of and I am sure some that I don't. I am sure everyone has seen one of those videos posted with this machine in operation with the cover off showing how it works. That was all that was initially needed for players to beat this machine. But of course software and algorisms were changed a number of times to combat this.

Most of the ways I am familiar with, the advantage is small. Smaller than card counting. And most AP's wont fuck with card counting anymore because the advantage is too small, so most won't fuck with this either. Of course some big, well financed team, that tiny advantage turns into fairly big bucks. One big benefit to players was that initially casinos thought these machines couldn't be beaten so players could bet table max with no concern. But that was a decade ago. The industry and manufacturer has known the vulnerabilities of these machines for a while now and been making changes regularly to stay ahead.

While this is a different type machine than the automatic shufflers discussion we have had here (CSM vs ASM)....is it really all that different? Once player are able to get their hands on these machines (players smarter than me), and see how they work, these machines all become vulnerable.

[Gottlob1]

Eliot's another big-time bullshitter, like the Wizard, to try to push his gambling books, and his other agenda. Except that the Wizard, as far as I know, hasn't cleared out of Vegas, yet.

[kewlJ]

Eliot's another big-time bullshitter, like the Wizard, to try to push his gambling books, and his other agenda. Except that the Wizard, as far as I know, hasn't cleared out of Vegas, yet.

Proving what an idiot you are bill yung.

I know Eliot isn't well liked on this forum because of things and positions that have nothing to do with gambling. But Eliot Jacobson is a genius. And I guess he made a good living applying that ability to gambling. I would have preferred he put that to use more as an AP, which he started out doing, than working with the casino industry.

I was pretty hard on Eliot on numerous forums for years, labeling and calling him "a traitor". I regret that position. If Eliot had just been a genius that worked for and with the casino industry without being an AP first, he wouldn't have been a "traitor", just a smart guy that worked for/in/with the industry. So I was penalizing Eliot because he decided that advantage play and all the crap that AP's go through, the cat and mouse games and fighting daily with the industry wasn't for him.

In the end, Eliot helped both players and the industry. He was about the math and making money (books and seminars). It isn't like AP's or the AP union (no such thing) was going to pay him, so he went to where the money was. And Eliot is a pretty decent guy if you talk to him privately.

[Gottlob1]

Eliot's another big-time bullshitter, like the Wizard, to try to push his gambling books, and his other agenda. Except that the Wizard, as far as I know, hasn't cleared out of Vegas, yet.

Proving what an idiot you are Bill Yung.

Well, at least, I proved something, unlike all of the character, gambler AP's before me.

Proving what an idiot you are Bill Yung.

---> Norwegian Building Authority.

https://anagram-solver.net/proving%2...g?partial=true


Working my way back to Finland. Ha.

[MDawg]

iirc some on this site had ridiculed the idea of beating a shuffling machine

The ridicule was over UNKewlJ's claim that he had found a programmer who in a matter of minutes had verified somehow or actually done the programming to make this shuffle machine we never saw (like everything else UNkewlJ talks about - no back up, no verification) go into "cheat" mode. The ridicule was over a lot UNKewlJ said regarding his nonexistent shuffle machine.

AccountInQuestion, if he has the strength and willingness to reiterate, could clarify this was his unveiling of UNKewlJ moment, the way MaxPen's moments involved unveiling UNKewlJ's lies about the fictitious backrooming incident lawsuit, the nonexistence of any "KewlJ" nickname in any casino database, and that he's nothing but a red to green player when he plays at all (and is a Pacific Islander looking fella).

Nothing to do with what you are talking about here, H.Smoke, as far as I know. AccountInQuestion can verify.

[AxelWolf]

Eliot's another big-time bullshitter, like the Wizard, to try to push his gambling books, and his other agenda. Except that the Wizard, as far as I know, hasn't cleared out of Vegas, yet.

Proving what an idiot you are bill yung.

I know Eliot isn't well liked on this forum because of things and positions that have nothing to do with gambling. But Eliot Jacobson is a genius. And I guess he made a good living applying that ability to gambling. I would have preferred he put that to use more as an AP, which he started out doing, than working with the casino industry.

I was pretty hard on Eliot on numerous forums for years, labeling and calling him "a traitor". I regret that position. If Eliot had just been a genius that worked for and with the casino industry without being an AP first, he wouldn't have been a "traitor", just a smart guy that worked for/in/with the industry. So I was penalizing Eliot because he decided that advantage play and all the crap that AP's go through, the cat and mouse games and fighting daily with the industry wasn't for him.

In the end, Eliot helped both players and the industry. He was about the math and making money (books and seminars). It isn't like AP's or the AP union (no such thing) was going to pay him, so he went to where the money was. And Eliot is a pretty decent guy if you talk to him privately.

You haven't a clue what you are talking about when it comes to Eliot.

I have come to teams with his many indiscretions, but please do your full research on him before you start praising or chastising him. You have absolutely no clue what the real story is.

[AxelWolf]

Well, at least, I proved something, unlike all of the character, gambler AP's before me.

Proving what an idiot you are Bill Yung.

---> Norwegian Building Authority.

https://anagram-solver.net/proving%2...g?partial=true


Working my way back to Finland. Ha.

What do you want proof of and what are you disputing?

[AxelWolf]

Eliot's another big-time bullshitter, like the Wizard, to try to push his gambling books, and his other agenda. Except that the Wizard, as far as I know, hasn't cleared out of Vegas, yet.

Proving what an idiot you are bill yung.

I know Eliot isn't well liked on this forum because of things and positions that have nothing to do with gambling. But Eliot Jacobson is a genius. And I guess he made a good living applying that ability to gambling. I would have preferred he put that to use more as an AP, which he started out doing, than working with the casino industry.

I was pretty hard on Eliot on numerous forums for years, labeling and calling him "a traitor". I regret that position. If Eliot had just been a genius that worked for and with the casino industry without being an AP first, he wouldn't have been a "traitor", just a smart guy that worked for/in/with the industry. So I was penalizing Eliot because he decided that advantage play and all the crap that AP's go through, the cat and mouse games and fighting daily with the industry wasn't for him.

In the end, Eliot helped both players and the industry. He was about the math and making money (books and seminars). It isn't like AP's or the AP union (no such thing) was going to pay him, so he went to where the money was. And Eliot is a pretty decent guy if you talk to him privately.

Stop just stop, or ill have to prove you are completely wrong

[kewlJ]

Proving what an idiot you are bill yung.

I know Eliot isn't well liked on this forum because of things and positions that have nothing to do with gambling. But Eliot Jacobson is a genius. And I guess he made a good living applying that ability to gambling. I would have preferred he put that to use more as an AP, which he started out doing, than working with the casino industry.

I was pretty hard on Eliot on numerous forums for years, labeling and calling him "a traitor". I regret that position. If Eliot had just been a genius that worked for and with the casino industry without being an AP first, he wouldn't have been a "traitor", just a smart guy that worked for/in/with the industry. So I was penalizing Eliot because he decided that advantage play and all the crap that AP's go through, the cat and mouse games and fighting daily with the industry wasn't for him.

In the end, Eliot helped both players and the industry. He was about the math and making money (books and seminars). It isn't like AP's or the AP union (no such thing) was going to pay him, so he went to where the money was. And Eliot is a pretty decent guy if you talk to him privately.

Stop just stop, or ill have to prove you are completely wrong

If there is something that I don't know about Eliot that you want to tell me, then do so. Publicly or privately....your choice.

I am aware that some people claim he turned over names, descriptions and identities of some AP's that he knew and even played with when he went to the "dark" side. Eliot denies that and I have never heard of one iota of proof of that. One guy I know that knew and played with Eliot swears by this because he was backed off and banned several times in that time frame. I think you need something a little more than that to make such an accusation.

[Treeshade]

Proving what an idiot you are bill yung.

I know Eliot isn't well liked on this forum because of things and positions that have nothing to do with gambling. But Eliot Jacobson is a genius. And I guess he made a good living applying that ability to gambling. I would have preferred he put that to use more as an AP, which he started out doing, than working with the casino industry.

I was pretty hard on Eliot on numerous forums for years, labeling and calling him "a traitor". I regret that position. If Eliot had just been a genius that worked for and with the casino industry without being an AP first, he wouldn't have been a "traitor", just a smart guy that worked for/in/with the industry. So I was penalizing Eliot because he decided that advantage play and all the crap that AP's go through, the cat and mouse games and fighting daily with the industry wasn't for him.

In the end, Eliot helped both players and the industry. He was about the math and making money (books and seminars). It isn't like AP's or the AP union (no such thing) was going to pay him, so he went to where the money was. And Eliot is a pretty decent guy if you talk to him privately.

Stop just stop, or ill have to prove you are completely wrong

If there is something that I don't know about Eliot that you want to tell me, then do so. Publicly or privately....your choice.

I am aware that some people claim he turned over names, descriptions and identities of some AP's that he knew and even played with when he went to the "dark" side. Eliot denies that and I have never heard of one iota of proof of that. One guy I know that knew and played with Eliot swears by this because he was backed off and banned several times in that time frame. I think you need something a little more than that to make such an accusation.

Elliot exposed the weakness of the One2six, and passed off information regarding teams exploiting it to casinos. War delt with the One2six was worth a lot as well as other games.

Elliot did these types of things because he has ancillary products, and or services or IP he profits from that casinos use.

One of the most profitable things I’ve exploited over the years was developed by Elliott to service the casino industry.

In short he’s a complete and utter fraud lunatic that has literally gone mad with his left wing ideology.

No AP should support this guy. Including low level card counting gay guys who can suck their own cock while counting 4 tables at once.

[Treeshade]

Stop just stop, or ill have to prove you are completely wrong

If there is something that I don't know about Eliot that you want to tell me, then do so. Publicly or privately....your choice.

I am aware that some people claim he turned over names, descriptions and identities of some AP's that he knew and even played with when he went to the "dark" side. Eliot denies that and I have never heard of one iota of proof of that. One guy I know that knew and played with Eliot swears by this because he was backed off and banned several times in that time frame. I think you need something a little more than that to make such an accusation.

Elliot exposed the weakness of the One2six, and passed off information regarding teams exploiting it to casinos. War delt with the One2six was worth a lot as well as other games.

Elliot did these types of things because he has ancillary products, and or services or IP he profits from that casinos use.

One of the most profitable things I’ve exploited over the years was developed by Elliott to service the casino industry.

In short he’s a complete and utter fraud lunatic that has literally gone mad with his left wing ideology.

No AP should support this guy. Including low level card counting gay guys who can suck their own cock while counting 4 tables at once.

I will add that Elliot didn’t do the work himself to figure out the weakness of the One2six. Just like all rats he was giving the information by someone exploiting it , and decided to look into it. After which he gave that information to the casinos.

Value creation for himself no doubt no matter how he spins the sharing of information BS.

[Treeshade]

If there is something that I don't know about Eliot that you want to tell me, then do so. Publicly or privately....your choice.

I am aware that some people claim he turned over names, descriptions and identities of some AP's that he knew and even played with when he went to the "dark" side. Eliot denies that and I have never heard of one iota of proof of that. One guy I know that knew and played with Eliot swears by this because he was backed off and banned several times in that time frame. I think you need something a little more than that to make such an accusation.

Elliot exposed the weakness of the One2six, and passed off information regarding teams exploiting it to casinos. War delt with the One2six was worth a lot as well as other games.

Elliot did these types of things because he has ancillary products, and or services or IP he profits from that casinos use.

One of the most profitable things I’ve exploited over the years was developed by Elliott to service the casino industry.

In short he’s a complete and utter fraud lunatic that has literally gone mad with his left wing ideology.

No AP should support this guy. Including low level card counting gay guys who can suck their own cock while counting 4 tables at once.

I will add that Elliot didn’t do the work himself to figure out the weakness of the One2six. Just like all rats he was giving the information by someone exploiting it , and decided to look into it. After which he gave that information to the casinos.

Value creation for himself no doubt no matter how he spins the sharing of information BS.

I predict he will end up in a nut house. Much like some Chess grandmasters who literally go insane later in life. He has that Vibe now if you read his twitter

[kewlJ]

Elliot exposed the weakness of the One2six, and passed off information regarding teams exploiting it to casinos. War delt with the One2six was worth a lot as well as other games.

Elliot did these types of things because he has ancillary products, and or services or IP he profits from that casinos use.

One of the most profitable things I’ve exploited over the years was developed by Elliott to service the casino industry.

In short he’s a complete and utter fraud lunatic that has literally gone mad with his left wing ideology.

No AP should support this guy. Including low level card counting gay guys who can suck their own cock while counting 4 tables at once.

Ok, let's leave "his left wing ideology" out of it. That has nothing to do with what is being discussed and is the main problem with this forum. people decide they don't like something about someone and so they demonize that person.

So everything else you said, was Eliot working with/for/consulting for the industry. So what? If it hadn't been Eliot, it would be some other really smart guy, that worked for or with the industry. There are tons of them. The difference is that APs feel betrayed because Eliot was first and AP and decided that wasn't for him. I bought into that for a long time, but he had a right to decide that.

As I am sure you know, Shackleford, Stanford Wong, and even going back to Lawrence Revere (who by all accounts was a real sleezebag) all consulted or worked with the casino industry. And none of these guys were as demonized as Eliot was. You could even make the case that these guys were worse, because they were playing both sides at the same time.

Anyway, I am not really here to defend Eliot. The guy worked with/for and made money off the casino industry with his products and seminars. Like I said there are a lot of people that have done those things. The difference is Eliot was once an AP. I don't think that really matters.

[Treeshade]

Elliot exposed the weakness of the One2six, and passed off information regarding teams exploiting it to casinos. War delt with the One2six was worth a lot as well as other games.

Elliot did these types of things because he has ancillary products, and or services or IP he profits from that casinos use.

One of the most profitable things I’ve exploited over the years was developed by Elliott to service the casino industry.

In short he’s a complete and utter fraud lunatic that has literally gone mad with his left wing ideology.

No AP should support this guy. Including low level card counting gay guys who can suck their own cock while counting 4 tables at once.

Ok, let's leave "his left wing ideology" out of it. That has nothing to do with what is being discussed and is the main problem with this forum. people decide they don't like something about someone and so they demonize that person.

So everything else you said, was Eliot working with/for/consulting for the industry. So what? If it hadn't been Eliot, it would be some other really smart guy, that worked for or with the industry. There are tons of them. The difference is that APs feel betrayed because Eliot was first and AP and decided that wasn't for him. I bought into that for a long time, but he had a right to decide that.

As I am sure you know, Shackleford, Stanford Wong, and even going back to Lawrence Revere (who by all accounts was a real sleezebag) all consulted or worked with the casino industry. And none of these guys were as demonized as Eliot was. You could even make the case that these guys were worse, because they were playing both sides at the same time.

Anyway, I am not really here to defend Eliot. The guy worked with/for and made money off the casino industry with his products and seminars. Like I said there are a lot of people that have done those things. The difference is Eliot was once an AP. I don't think that really matters.

The left wing ideology is most likely the reason he went down the rat path. Study Marxism to find out why these types of people all end up like this.

Perhaps in the beginning he was more of a traditional democrat. But over the years the indoctrination took him further down the rat hole.

To answer your question more directly it’s because he’s a rat man. There’s no need to do a deep dive on that.

Research everything he has worked on and maybe you can find a way to make some money off him.

Anyway Fuck that guy

[AxelWolf]

You have given enough information for people to make their own decisions either way.

I will leave it at that.