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Thread: I'm changing my strategy for playing craps.

  1. #41
    Yes Alan! I did notice your name. You were described in the article as a "regular Craps Player at Caesars" back then. Do you still frequent Caesars? Fortunately or unfortunately, I live in Hawaii, therefore I can only go to Vegas two or three times a year. Have been playing casino craps since 1983 when I won $1700 on my first experience at Harrahs in Lake Tahoe and have been hooked ever since. The Fire Bet only adds to my crap table adrenaline addiction.

    Played and won an "All Bet" at Aria a few weeks ago. Shooter needed to make a 2 for his final number and he nailed it!!! Yahooo!!! I had $10 + $1 on the Small, Tall and All so got paid about $2400. Shooter had a $1 therefore we all (dealer too) celebrated that "pair of Aces". A great thrill but I still prefer the 6 point Fire Bet but I am not complaining.

    New Idea:The casinos should create a video from the years of surveillance tapes and create The Worlds Greatest (and/or strangest) Craps Hands video. Those 1 hour+ rolls are mini masterpieces that should be available for those that appreciate it! Perhaps with your Media connections you can start producing it! I would pay for a DVD of it!

    Thanks again for this great Blog. Keeps me reminiscing about all the great experiences on the Crap Table.

  2. #42
    [QUOTE=russkg;9226]I am not certain where or how I discovered this Forum Alan but thank you! I love it!

    Regnis: So you used to deal craps! I love it!

    Actually only was stick--didn't have the hands for dealing. But could call a fun game and kept good control of the game.

  3. #43
    Originally Posted by russkg View Post
    Played and won an "All Bet" at Aria a few weeks ago. Shooter needed to make a 2 for his final number and he nailed it!!! Yahooo!!! I had $10 + $1 on the Small, Tall and All so got paid about $2400. Shooter had a $1 therefore we all (dealer too) celebrated that "pair of Aces". A great thrill but I still prefer the 6 point Fire Bet but I am not complaining.
    The only time I saw those kinds of exotic bets was at Sams Town years ago. I like them. They are worth a buck, I think. I always bet $10 on the Fire but I have to admit sometimes I go a whole weekend without even a four number payoff. However, one five number payoff makes up for all of the Fire bets that missed. And I've thrown 5 twice, and been at a 6-point table way back when only the Rio had it.

    Originally Posted by russkg View Post
    New Idea:The casinos should create a video from the years of surveillance tapes and create The Worlds Greatest (and/or strangest) Craps Hands video. Those 1 hour+ rolls are mini masterpieces that should be available for those that appreciate it! Perhaps with your Media connections you can start producing it! I would pay for a DVD of it!
    I've often thought about the casino surveillance tapes. Soimetimes you seen them on various TV shows. But from what I understand, most tapes are not kept for any period of time unless they are marked to be held for some reason or another.

    But that information came to me a few years ago before things went digital. Now you can store weeks of tapes on a drive, whereas in the old days they actually used two hour and four hour recording tapes which created a big storage problem. There were were several lawsuits brought against casinos back in the "tape days" that the casinos were forced to settle because either they couldnt find the tapes or didn't keep the tapes of certain incidents.

    Im sure the casinos are now all digital which means they have unlimited storage capabilities so that problem would be solved.
    Another problem is getting the releases of gamblers to be on TV. That could be the biggest problem.

    The #1 reason why casinos don't like photographs in the casino is to protect the identity of gamblers. it has little to do with the casino layout, games, design, lighting or any "trade secrets."

    Caesars not only provided a still phtographer for my wedding at the craps table but also a videographer. So you know photography is allowed as long as they know whose faces are getting shot.

    Last edited by Alan Mendelson; 12-15-2012 at 11:26 PM.

  4. #44
    Would love to see the tape of regnis's 18 8s. He must have been in total control and completely in the zone. Imagine 8 after 8 after 8...Surreal, dreamlike state of mind, completely focused. Debate all you want about dice control or influence but during those times on hot table with a composed, consistent shooter, I'm a believer.

    18 8s! Good Grief! Or as the kids say, "That's so Sick".

  5. #45
    Question for Alan:

    You were married at a Caesars Craps Table?

  6. #46
    Originally Posted by russkg View Post
    Question for Alan:

    You were married at a Caesars Craps Table?
    Yes. Jimmy Wike who was head of table gaming at Caesars okayed it, the wedding dept at Caesars arranged it -- Rabbi, photographers, champagne, table just for us (family, friends), etc.

    It was a hoot. Never was done before, and has never been done again. In the words of the legendary Jimmy Wike (known throughout the industry for standardizing the 3,4,5 odds system to make payouts easier for dealers) "it was the best thing we ever did."

    We were married at about 2 in the afternoon. The casino was jammed, and in the video you can hear all the noise of the casino action while the Rabbi is starting the ceremony. Even Moe, the stickman at the next table, is clearly heard yelling about "8 hard 8, point is 5, roll a 5." (All the dealers still joke about that today how Moe kept yelling to either drown out the Rabbi or to be sure he was heard on the video.) About half way through the ceremony the entire casino caught on that a wedding was going on and there was this immediate hush. All the action in the casino stopped. Even the other craps tables stopped. The blackjack tables next to our craps table stopped and the players turned in their seats to watch. And then when I stomped on the glass (Jewish tradition) the entire casino yelled out "Mazel Tov." It was a hoot and Jimmy was in the background shot of the video with this look of amazement and his hand to his mouth in shock and awe that the entire casino became focused on the ceremony.

    Norm had the wedding in the LVRJ in his column, and my friend Robin Leach made it the top item in his column and website that day. The dealers still talk about it. All of the dealers at my table are still there. Jimmy retired two years ago. The wedding was March 10, 2006.

    So about two years ago I am at the same table and one of the floormen says to me, "Alan, you're back to your lucky table!" And I look at him with this look of surprise. And he looks down at my hand to check that my wedding band is still there, and yes my wedding band is on. And he says to me, "this is your lucky table, isn't it?" And I look at him and I say, "this is the table where I got married yes, but my lucky table is over there (pointing to another table) and it's full and I couldn't get my spot."

    Oh, one more thing. Since it was "my table" I could set the table minimum. At the time, every table at Caesars was a $25 table. But the dealers said I could set the minimum since "it's your table, Alan." Well, my relatives weren't gamblers, so I said "is ten dollars okay?" And that's what the minimum was.

    We kept the table for about a hour, and that's when the girls went off to the Forum shops, some of the guys went off to do other stuff, and I told the pit boss to open the table, and the minimum went back to $25.

    My wife Shelley was first to throw, and the first roll of the dice was 7. "Oh damn," she said. (Shelley is a VP player, not craps, and she thought she 7'd out, when really she had won. Her next throw was a 9, then some numbers and then she made the point. Robin Leach wrote about that in his column because at the time I was working for Channel 9.
    Last edited by Alan Mendelson; 12-16-2012 at 09:59 AM.

  7. #47
    That's a wonderful, memorable, unforgettable wedding story Alan. I can just picture the hush in the normally noisy casino as the table action came to a standstill and focused on your wedding. Was Spielberg there directing this Hollywood Scene or what? Wow! Wish I had been there! Congratulations!

    My wedding story isn't nearly as good as yours but Craps is involved so here how it happened: I got married in 2001 at the Paris Chapel in the Paris Hotel. Wife said to be back at the room by 100PM to get ready for the Wedding at 230PM. Anyhow, I am at the Paris Crap table and I had a great roll which finally sevened out at about 120PM. I hurriedly colored out about $5500 and everyone at the table is buzzing after the heater and is asking where I'm going in such a hurry? To which I reply, I gotta go and get married! Dealers laughed and said yeah right! (wife was mad but quickly forgave me as I had won and we still had time) About an hour later, wife and I walk by the crap pit and the same dealer sees us dressed-up for the wedding and laughs and says something like you weren't kidding you really are getting married!

    This Forum just keeps getting better and better. I am truly entertained and loving it. Great job Alan!

  8. #48
    russkg I like your story better. You won good money!!!

  9. #49
    Truly was a great day! Great roll, get married to an absolutely beautiful woman and celebrate all night! 11 Years later and we are still happily married and travel to Paris Las Vegas a couple of times a year. I am a very lucky man!

  10. #50
    We are all sick!!! My other love besides craps is horse racing. We got married at Ballys chapel. But the first race at Aqueduct (New York) is at 8:30 A.M. Vegas time. Because I was a "player" in those days, they accomodated us with an early wedding (they don't actually open till much later) so I could make the first race.

    The funny side note--there is a drunken preacher in the movie "Honeymoon In Vegas" with Nicholas Cage and Sarah Jessica Parker. That's the guy that married us--and he was drunk or at least hung over at the time he married us. Whenever I'm mad at my wife, I tease her that we really aren't married.

  11. #51
    LOL. Too funny. We, Alan, Regnis and I got married in Vegas and our "sick" little pastime affected our special matrimonial ceremony in some way. We all appear to have found supportive partners whom have accepted us for who we are! We are truly lucky men!

    Great Forum Alan!

  12. #52
    Forget the fire bet unless you are shooting yourself. There are 15 to 18 new games per hour. At $10.00 per loss that is $150.00 per hour minimum you are losing. I have charted decisions and fire bets losses for 4 years. Its a bad bet! The 4 pointer pays crap, The 5 pointer is better but most people will lay the point for 50% of the fire bet. The 6 point is great but I have only seen it done once and I play 3 to 4 times a week and have been for years. I have heard of others making it but rare. You are still going to lay the 6th point and walk out with half unless you are greedy or just have lots of money and do not care.
    Forget about taking odds. It all dandy when its going your way but when it does not then it gets ugly. Its a great percentage bet, but is is a great bet? All that extra money to go up against the 7 sounds like greed to me. 15 years of watching and playing has convinced me of that. Most people tap out and go home broke, just watch from now on. The pass line or the don't pass line is the only way to go using a progression and regression method. It's pretty much a 50/50 game once you track all the decisions day after day. I make $30.00 to $40.00 per hour based on a table that has 30 to 35 decisions per hour on a 5 dollar table. I am always the last guy standing with a chip stack and I go to the casino to make money by the way, not to gamble and hope that lightning will strike.

  13. #53
    No offense but there are better ways to make 30-40 per hour with no risk and less boredom. I would rather not play then play that slow and with that little chance of excitement or a big hit.

    I do not, however, disagree with your assessment of the game of craps and the rarety of a big hand. At the lower level that you are playing, the place bet is, as I have explained in previous threads, better than pass or come.

  14. #54
    dave_guy welcome and thanks for joining us. I think I have a lifetime profit with the fire bet. But keep in mind the fire bet has only been around for a few years and I've been playing craps a lot longer.

    One thing you say about the odds bet is true -- when you lose with betting odds, you lose damn big.

    Ironically on three out of five outtings to Rincon where they have card craps of all things, I hit five out of six on the fire bet twice, and once for four numbers. Also at Rincon I followed my "new strategy" of passline plus fire and lightning struck for me three times. of course that doesn't mean it will ever again. But we play video poker to get royals, and I like to play craps to get the fire bet -- and you have better odds at hitting all six points on the fire bet than you do hitting a royal flush.

    again, welcome and thanks for joining.

  15. #55
    Hi

    You got lucky with the fire bets and I am happy that you did. Some weeks you can do nothing wrong it seems. I am a regular at Fallsview Niagara. I play at least 20 hours a week. 4 pointers come and go, 5 pointers not so easy and rare. 6 pointers I would like to see more often. I will still lay the 5th number to win 600 bucks (free money) on a 5 dollar fire. I am consistent with my play as I know the odds against me and accept it. I plan ahead and my mental attitude is to win. I know that I can if I stick to my game. I just want to be in the game for as long as possible when the numbers even out (and they do). I treat it as a business. If you do the math and play every shooter and track the fire bet as I do you will see how much it is costing you and everyone else around you. Most sessions though only last a few minutes as you know. I like the fire bet. It gives hope to the game and its fun. I always do it when its my turn to shoot and hope for the best. Never made the illusive 6 pointer though.

    I do play a game within my passline progression and regression game. I set aside money for both and keep track of both chip stacks. I do not miss the big one when it decides to come along.

  16. #56
    Dave do you live in the Buffalo area? Im originally from the northern suburbs of New York and went to Syracuse University and worked in Syracuse for several years. But when I lived there the biggest action was Buffalo Raceway... back when the horses were the #1 spectator sport in the USA, and not NASCAR like it is today. We used to go to Vernon Downs.

  17. #57
    Alan, Here is a scenario I ran into the other day. 11 quick decisions on the passline on a $5.00 table "starting out" with $5.00. No cutback and no half bets. Never more then $40.00 on any bet. The acender and the decender ratio bet stayed the same. On flat betting you would have lost $30.00. I made $15.00 a 36% win ratio 4 wins and 8 losses 4/11. It took about 15 minutes. Consider Charting the "decisions" only, day after day for 4 to 5 hours a day or longer(flat betting if you wish) You will see that it is basically a 50/50 game with a slight edge on the don't. Its almost impossible to make anything on flat betting if at all. After all the 12s that come in (the juice) you will see what you have left and it will not be pleasant. Top that with all the fire bets you are going to lose and you will still not be a winner. It "is" possible to win small amounts with minimal risk. I shoot for $30 to $40 per hour. Sometimes it works out much better. There are progression and regression methods that do work but you have to find one that works for you. Its the only way that you can make money without looking for lightning to strike.

  18. #58
    Fort Erie, You should be playing at Allegany. They always have a $5.00 dollar table going from what I know.

  19. #59
    Regnis
    I never get bored. I am happy to make a couple of hundred bucks every time I play. I keep busy tracking the fire bet losses, the actual decisions and monitoring my play. I always know what my next bet is going to be whether I win it or lose it. I watch guys that think they know how to play getting crushed and arguing with each other. It strengthens my ability to stay cool and not to be like them. I do agree there are other ways to make money but with more risk and juice going to the casino. I also have a play where I do not miss the big one (when it happens)......

  20. #60
    I would feel like a big jerk if someone made all six passes and I didn't have the fire bet.

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