I have a confession to make regarding my Player's Club Cards....

[tableplay]

Tableplay (I think) mentioned some time Back about a guy who would clone the magnetic strip and somehow insert that into a machine so when plops played it gave him credit. Totally a felony but it was interesting

Yes, with this technique, a players card is used to deliver a transparent laminate that has the desired mag stripe info on it into the card receptacle. The card (in this role, merely a delivery vessel) is then removed, but the laminate, which cannot be seen, stays and accumulates points for the beneficiary. I suspect this is one of the many reasons smart phones are being pushed as a replacement for cards (kind of like how driverless cars are being pushed [to the point of covering up all the accidents and fatalities these things cause] so that they can shut off a person's car that they don't like for whatever reason rather than having to chase the person down in a dangerous car chase or how smart electronic home utility monitors are being pushed so that they can shut off the power for people who don't pay their utility bills at the push of a button from headquarters rather than having to send out a meter man [who may be putting his life at risk] to shut it off physically).

The person who was doing this was banned from all the casinos in the northern part of a certain state (and not necessarily for ghost-carding). One day though (I had the feeling our paths would cross again at some point), I ran into him again though at a casino he had been kicked out of. He was wearing a giant sombrero-hat, shades, and sporting a Grizzly Adams beard and a hippy hair-do. However I made him in about 3 seconds. I usually don't forget people that clever and that evil (ASFAIK). At a bank of Regals: "You guys are still working this place after all these years ?" "Can I borrow a twenty ?" And off he went (without a twenty). And I haven't seen him since.

[Tasha]

Tasha, here’s one thing you could do so you don’t have to worry about people saying no when you ask to use your card.

When you see someone playing with no card walk up to them and say “Excuse me. I think I dropped my cell phone over here, do you see a cell phone by your feet?”

And then when they look down, slip your card into the machine.

That would be beyond risky, especially if they report me if they see my Player's Club Card in their machine suddenly.

[DGenBen]

Tasha, here’s one thing you could do so you don’t have to worry about people saying no when you ask to use your card.

When you see someone playing with no card walk up to them and say “Excuse me. I think I dropped my cell phone over here, do you see a cell phone by your feet?”

And then when they look down, slip your card into the machine.

That would be beyond risky, especially if they report me if they see my Player's Club Card in their machine suddenly.

Very easy work around.

You can buy a glasses and mustache disguise on Amazon for under $10.

Just wear that whenever you’re inserting the card & remove it when you walk away so you have plausible deniability if security questions you.

Plus if they don’t care enough to use a players card, why would they even notice your card, or care enough to report you if they did?

“Excuse me security, I was playing without a players card, & then this dude with glasses & a mustache came by and now there is a players card in my machine? Could you investigate this matter please?”

And then security “Yes we will drop everything & launch a full investigation into this. Players cards appearing in machines of people playing unrated is a top priority for us!”

[Tasha]

Tasha's benefactors are likely just amused. Imagine Tasha sitting right there looking more like a vulture than an actual slot vulture.

The funniest part to me, is Tasha thought she had a good thing going, until someone hit a $2000 jackpot with her card in. Then that Tasha smile turned upside down into a frown because she thought she was on the hook for tax liability, not even seeming to know that she could offset that $2000 with absolutely no paperwork required. Just mark down the same amount in losses.

Now THAT is entertainment.

I wasn't nervous about the TAX possibility, I nearly shat my pants because I was nervous that the Casino might trespass me for having random Strangers play on my card for a Promotion...

[Darkoz]

Tasha, here’s one thing you could do so you don’t have to worry about people saying no when you ask to use your card.

When you see someone playing with no card walk up to them and say “Excuse me. I think I dropped my cell phone over here, do you see a cell phone by your feet?”

And then when they look down, slip your card into the machine.

No bad advice and this is from someone who used to do what Tasha did. It's how I got my start. How I went from homeless with no money to massive multicarding. Not saying Tasha will become a multicarder but she is taking the first step.

Slipping cards into a reader when a person isn't looking can get you banned if they complain. It's one thing if they aren't looking when they start playing and discover there was a card left behind. But if they know a card was slipped in they can complain especially if they are superstitious (like 90% of players). I have seen at least one person banned for doing that to someone in a high roller room (no not me).

Tasha has to learn the dry hustle. It's similar to a club or bar dry hustle only instead of making a guy think he's gonna get lucky by buying drinks (when the girl has no intention of going home with them) she has to make them feel they will get lucky with their card.

To do that she needs to engage in a little pre-ask small talk. She has to act excited because she got lucky to someone who isn't using their card ("OH my God, that's the same machine I wom $2000 off a$2,50 bet. I can't wait to play when you finish I want to sit down too. Hey you aren't using your player card. Do you mind if I stick mine in to hold the machine. You might get lucky like I did").

Schmooze the player. Doesn't matter if she actually won on the slot. But hype them up. It will also give her some clue as to the person's mindset BEFORE she asks. Someone is hostile she can move on and she has just engaged in harmless small talk. If someone ultimately says no to using her card less likely they will be angry if she just did some friendly banter but they just lost their new best friend as she moves onto the next person.

One specific place to try is the electronic roulette if points can be made there. You can. Really dry hustle those by memorizing key numbers around the wheel and calling them out when the ball is spinning. Those numbers should be equidistant around the wheel so half the time you guess correct and the other half the ball lands next to your number. (You yell damn, I knew it just one number off) The mark will still think you know something and once he feels you are lucky in goes your card so he can keep you guessing at his seat. It also puts you "in the game" as you are guessing numbers as well (even if they are memorized for the hustle).

Dry hustling is an art form. The mark won't even know he is being used in a scheme if you do it right.

You guys may be laughing but Tasha is one step away from multicarding. Once she realizes she can do what she does and triple her output by making her daily points using three cards instead of just her own. And once she starts doing that she may have the info after a few months or years to compare notes (hmmm this card get X and that gets Z so what did I do differently I really like Z results) before she has the info to multicard control. Ten years from now you guys might not be laughing so hard at her.

[Tasha]

Darkoz, about multicarding, there is a Promotion where if you have multiple cards of your own, you can win a maximum of like $25,000 an hour for 13 hours or $325,000 in one day. The Funtastic Lotto game , you pick 5 numbers and if your 5 numbers come up exactly, you win $5,000 in free play for that hour. So, let's say your numbers are 3,5,6,7,9. If 3,5,6,7,9 come up, you win $5,000 in free play. The amount is multiplied by how many cards you have in the machine when the Funtastic Lotto game pops up. You are allowed multiple cards, so just ask for two extra cards one day, two extras cards the next, and you now have five active cards you can use for Funtastic Lotto. Playing five different slots or games is tricky, but it's possible because you get like a three minute window before the Player's Club Card gets inactive. So you can definitely spin on five different games within those three minutes. And voila, you just made $25,000 in free play in just one hour if you do your numbers in exact order. And, $325,000 in one day if you get the exact numbers all 13 hours across five different machines.

[Darkoz]

Darkoz, about multicarding, there is a Promotion where if you have multiple cards of your own, you can win a maximum of like $25,000 an hour for 13 hours or $325,000 in one day. The Funtastic Lotto game , you pick 5 numbers and if your 5 numbers come up exactly, you win $5,000 in free play for that hour. So, let's say your numbers are 3,5,6,7,9. If 3,5,6,7,9 come up, you win $5,000 in free play. The amount is multiplied by how many cards you have in the machine when the Funtastic Lotto game pops up. You are allowed multiple cards, so just ask for two extra cards one day, two extras cards the next, and you now have five active cards you can use for Funtastic Lotto. Playing five different slots or games is tricky, but it's possible because you get like a three minute window before the Player's Club Card gets inactive. So you can definitely spin on five different games within those three minutes. And voila, you just made $25,000 in free play in just one hour if you do your numbers in exact order. And, $325,000 in one day if you get the exact numbers all 13 hours across five different machines.

Oh boy!

1) that isn't multicarding

2) that's relying on one of those rare to win or get casino promotions so practically worthless

3) the rules you described aound kind of sketchy. Never seen a promotions of any magnitude much less $5000 where EACH copy of your card multiplies your promotional win.

4) Try using $325,000 freeplay in one day and see how fast you are welcomed back

[Gottlob1]

Oh, here's a post from Freddy, at GF's, in response to MrV, about Darkoz.

V calling bullshit, and, then, Freddy falling in line. And, next, none other than the MDawg. Ha.

https://www.gamblingforums.com/threa...03#post-140224

Seems like no one normal in the casino industry.

[Tasha]

Darkoz, about multicarding, there is a Promotion where if you have multiple cards of your own, you can win a maximum of like $25,000 an hour for 13 hours or $325,000 in one day. The Funtastic Lotto game , you pick 5 numbers and if your 5 numbers come up exactly, you win $5,000 in free play for that hour. So, let's say your numbers are 3,5,6,7,9. If 3,5,6,7,9 come up, you win $5,000 in free play. The amount is multiplied by how many cards you have in the machine when the Funtastic Lotto game pops up. You are allowed multiple cards, so just ask for two extra cards one day, two extras cards the next, and you now have five active cards you can use for Funtastic Lotto. Playing five different slots or games is tricky, but it's possible because you get like a three minute window before the Player's Club Card gets inactive. So you can definitely spin on five different games within those three minutes. And voila, you just made $25,000 in free play in just one hour if you do your numbers in exact order. And, $325,000 in one day if you get the exact numbers all 13 hours across five different machines.

Oh boy!

1) that isn't multicarding

2) that's relying on one of those rare to win or get casino promotions so practically worthless

3) the rules you described aound kind of sketchy. Never seen a promotions of any magnitude much less $5000 where EACH copy of your card multiplies your promotional win.

4) Try using $325,000 freeplay in one day and see how fast you are welcomed back

I got $100 in free play like three times when I was using two Player's Club Card and two of my numbers showed up at the same time. If you get two numbers, you win $50 in free play. Since I was playing with two cards, I got $100.

[kewlJ]

Darkoz, about multicarding, there is a Promotion where if you have multiple cards of your own, you can win a maximum of like $25,000 an hour for 13 hours or $325,000 in one day. The Funtastic Lotto game , you pick 5 numbers and if your 5 numbers come up exactly, you win $5,000 in free play for that hour. So, let's say your numbers are 3,5,6,7,9. If 3,5,6,7,9 come up, you win $5,000 in free play. The amount is multiplied by how many cards you have in the machine when the Funtastic Lotto game pops up. You are allowed multiple cards, so just ask for two extra cards one day, two extras cards the next, and you now have five active cards you can use for Funtastic Lotto. Playing five different slots or games is tricky, but it's possible because you get like a three minute window before the Player's Club Card gets inactive. So you can definitely spin on five different games within those three minutes. And voila, you just made $25,000 in free play in just one hour if you do your numbers in exact order. And, $325,000 in one day if you get the exact numbers all 13 hours across five different machines.

Oh boy!

1) that isn't multicarding

2) that's relying on one of those rare to win or get casino promotions so practically worthless

3) the rules you described aound kind of sketchy. Never seen a promotions of any magnitude much less $5000 where EACH copy of your card multiplies your promotional win.

4) Try using $325,000 freeplay in one day and see how fast you are welcomed back

You are the expert on this multi-carding Darkoz (and I guess seedvalue is claiming likewise). And I am not questioning that expertise, nor what you do, and have claimed. But it seems to me, based on what you guys have shared, that it wouldn't or shouldn't be that hard for casinos to spot what you guys are doing. Even using multiple players.

Almost seems like up to now, casinos have almost turned a blind eye to this. But I am also hearing rumblings that they are starting to crack down. and if they are it just shouldn't be that hard to shut down or at least make it much more difficult (and less profitable) to pull off. Do you have any concerns about that going forward?

[mcap]

Don’t care + didn’t ask + incorrect + you fell off + you’re canceled

[Darkoz]

Darkoz, about multicarding, there is a Promotion where if you have multiple cards of your own, you can win a maximum of like $25,000 an hour for 13 hours or $325,000 in one day. The Funtastic Lotto game , you pick 5 numbers and if your 5 numbers come up exactly, you win $5,000 in free play for that hour. So, let's say your numbers are 3,5,6,7,9. If 3,5,6,7,9 come up, you win $5,000 in free play. The amount is multiplied by how many cards you have in the machine when the Funtastic Lotto game pops up. You are allowed multiple cards, so just ask for two extra cards one day, two extras cards the next, and you now have five active cards you can use for Funtastic Lotto. Playing five different slots or games is tricky, but it's possible because you get like a three minute window before the Player's Club Card gets inactive. So you can definitely spin on five different games within those three minutes. And voila, you just made $25,000 in free play in just one hour if you do your numbers in exact order. And, $325,000 in one day if you get the exact numbers all 13 hours across five different machines.

Oh boy!

1) that isn't multicarding

2) that's relying on one of those rare to win or get casino promotions so practically worthless

3) the rules you described aound kind of sketchy. Never seen a promotions of any magnitude much less $5000 where EACH copy of your card multiplies your promotional win.

4) Try using $325,000 freeplay in one day and see how fast you are welcomed back

You are the expert on this multi-carding Darkoz (and I guess seedvalue is claiming likewise). And I am not questioning that expertise, nor what you do, and have claimed. But it seems to me, based on what you guys have shared, that it wouldn't or shouldn't be that hard for casinos to spot what you guys are doing. Even using multiple players.

Almost seems like up to now, casinos have almost turned a blind eye to this. But I am also hearing rumblings that they are starting to crack down. and if they are it just shouldn't be that hard to shut down or at least make it much more difficult (and less profitable) to pull off. Do you have any concerns about that going forward?

It's always a concern of course.

Is it easy to spot? Yes and no. Is it easy to curb? Yes and no.

For example there is a casino I have hit three separate times even after major crackdowns. They realized my team (and a few others) were hitting them hard. They began shutting off anyone who took their freeplay without extra play.

After they turned off a bunch of poor little old ladies who took their offers (I am exaggerating but basically many regular gamblers will sometimes just take their freeplay) they relaxed restrictions.

After figuring out how to get around those restrictions and still make a profit I hit them a second time. Rinse, repeat.

Their biggest problem is the offers bring in the customers. Put heavy restrictions on them and they cut their customer retention. Especially in a locale where there is competition across the street.

I will give you another example from a few years ago. A local casino got so fed up with people using other players cards they instituted a must see ID policy. For all freeplay. The rewards desk had to activate all offers and kiosks were shut down.

That lasted two weeks. Once customers complained they were spending two hours on line to get their offers (and not gambling while on those long lines) the casino relented and made it only offers $40 and higher had to activate.

So I set up cards with $250 a day freeplay and paid the cardholders a monthly fee to go and activate their freeplay when necessary (the freeplay would be active for a whole week so I just had to go at the end of the week and play all the freeplay off.

Then the casino realized people were still complaining about waiting on long lines so they changed it to offers over $100 have to be activated at live dealer. That was worth it to me so I armed all my $250 card members with a dozen smaller cards (under $100) to activate at kiosk and they were happy cause now after doing their own card at the live person they got paid extra for the dealing with the other cards.

My point is the casinos are generally between a rock and a hard place. They can Crack down but it's usually at their own expense and I will always be monitoring for when conditions improve. It's not much different than BJ conditions changing for the worse and then the better and CC calculating the right time to hit.

[MDawg]

Begging for "comps," which is essentially what Tasha is doing, seems the same as "chip hustling" which the pit bosses have told me is illegal in Nevada. If someone so much as asks you to give him a chip, he's broken the law.

The big hotels and casinos pay a lot of muscle to make sure high rollers like MDawg don't have even momentary hassles with "undesirables." Security in a place like the Wynn is super tense and strict. Probably a third of the people on the floor at a given time are either shills or watchdogs. Public drunks like AxelWolf known male hustlers like UNKewlJ are dealt with instantly - hustled out to the parking lot by Secret Service type thugs and given an impersonal lecture about the cost of dental work and of trying to make a living with two broken arms.

[Darkoz]

Begging for "comps," which is essentially what Tasha is doing, seems the same as "chip hustling" which the pit bosses have told me is illegal in Nevada. If someone so much as asks you to give him a chip, he's broken the law.

The big hotels and casinos pay a lot of muscle to make sure high rollers like MDawg don't have even momentary hassles with "undesirables." Security in a place like the Wynn is super tense and strict. Probably a third of the people on the floor at a given time are either shills or watchdogs. Public drunks like AxelWolf known male hustlers like UNKewlJ are dealt with instantly - hustled out to the parking lot by Secret Service type thugs and given an impersonal lecture about the cost of dental work and of trying to make a living with two broken arms.

A pit boss told me using another person's players card is fraud and illegal.

A casino security officer told me using another person's players card is stealing and a crime.

A police officer investigating me because the casino called them said the casino had wasted his time because it wasn't illegal.

A lawyer in court admitted what I did was not illegal.

Bottom line. Anyone (particularly someone who claims to be a lawyer) who listens to pit bosses and casino staff for legal advice is an idiot.

[kewlJ]

A pit boss told me using another person's players card is fraud and illegal.

A casino security officer told me using another person's players card is stealing and a crime.

A police officer investigating me because the casino called them said the casino had wasted his time because it wasn't illegal.

A lawyer in court admitted what I did was not illegal.

Bottom line. Anyone (particularly someone who claims to be a lawyer) who listens to pit bosses and casino staff for legal advice is an idiot.

Casino personnel from dealers to pit to security, to heads of security in the back room will tell card counters that card counting is illegal too, when every damn one of them knows or should know that it is not.

One of the problems with the chip to free play comparison is that chips have cash value. They are worth whatever the amount is. But according to casinos, and this is even printed on some material like the offers themselves, free play has no cash value. Of course APs operate knowing that it does.

[Tasha]

Begging for "comps," which is essentially what Tasha is doing, seems the same as "chip hustling" which the pit bosses have told me is illegal in Nevada. If someone so much as asks you to give him a chip, he's broken the law.

The big hotels and casinos pay a lot of muscle to make sure high rollers like MDawg don't have even momentary hassles with "undesirables." Security in a place like the Wynn is super tense and strict. Probably a third of the people on the floor at a given time are either shills or watchdogs. Public drunks like AxelWolf known male hustlers like UNKewlJ are dealt with instantly - hustled out to the parking lot by Secret Service type thugs and given an impersonal lecture about the cost of dental work and of trying to make a living with two broken arms.

I'm not "Begging," for Comps, I'm simply using an advantage loophole to get more free play, Comps, Promotions, and points. The Rules on my Player's Club Card DO NOT SAY you can't ask people to play on your Player's Club Card. It says,"One Account per person," but does not say,"Putting Player's Club Card into machine you yourself aren't playing is prohibited."

[kewlJ]

Tasha, there are likely rules elsewhere, maybe at the players club that state by accepting the card you agree to these additional conditions and rules. I would look into that if I were you.

Although in the end, it doesn't matter. If you "get caught" doing what you are doing, your account will probably be cancelled. Or maybe they will feel sorry for you and just issue a warning.

[accountinquestion]

Begging for "comps," which is essentially what Tasha is doing, seems the same as "chip hustling" which the pit bosses have told me is illegal in Nevada. If someone so much as asks you to give him a chip, he's broken the law.

The big hotels and casinos pay a lot of muscle to make sure high rollers like MDawg don't have even momentary hassles with "undesirables." Security in a place like the Wynn is super tense and strict. Probably a third of the people on the floor at a given time are either shills or watchdogs. Public drunks like AxelWolf known male hustlers like UNKewlJ are dealt with instantly - hustled out to the parking lot by Secret Service type thugs and given an impersonal lecture about the cost of dental work and of trying to make a living with two broken arms.

I can't really imagine this being true but I guess there are panhandling laws so who knows. I guess people who ask for chips aren't going to be suing government entities over first amendment issues but lol...

[MDawg]

D.Oz you know that when your extended family turns on you and turns you in for identity fraud because they get tired of your underpaying them, that you'll go down hard and skid on your butt. Imagine the multi count federal indictment for that, crossing state lines and everything!

I am sure there are disgruntled former "employees" who would love to get at you somehow, and that would be one way. People say and do a lot of nasty things when they feel jealous, crossed or slighted, just look at The rats of VCT Boz, MisterV, REDietz, UNKewlJ

As far as panhandling, yes there are laws against that, which is what "chip hustling" is.

[Darkoz]

Tasha, there are likely rules elsewhere, maybe at the players club that state by accepting the card you agree to these additional conditions and rules. I would look into that if I were you.

Although in the end, it doesn't matter. If you "get caught" doing what you are doing, your account will probably be cancelled. Or maybe they will feel sorry for you and just issue a warning.

True.

But most casinos actually have rules that really are ridiculous. Some have terms and conditions that wouldn't even stand up in court.

I will post one in a separate thread