I have a confession to make regarding my Player's Club Cards....

[Darkoz]

Well not certain how to post pic but basically go to Resorts world terms and conditions and you will find that you agree that all legal issues will be pursuant to Malaysian law and that you hold them harmless in all claims and if a court decides that they are liable damages are capped at 100 Malaysian Ringgit which I checked has a value of about $18.

I also checked Malaysian courts and you have to be a resident of Malaysia with a valid Malaysian address to file any court case.

So does anyone here believe that those terms and conditions, let's say if a woman falls and breaks her leg will be considered valid in US court as defense to a claim?

Terms and conditions, house rules etc at casinos are a joke. Only thing that matters is gambling statutes and the law. Pointing to house rules in casinos is a waste of time.

[accountinquestion]

Well not certain how to post pic but basically go to Resorts world terms and conditions and you will find that you agree that all legal issues will be pursuant to Malaysian law and that you hold them harmless in all claims and if a court decides that they are liable damages are capped at 100 Malaysian Ringgit which I checked has a value of about $18.

I also checked Malaysian courts and you have to be a resident of Malaysia with a valid Malaysian address to file any court case.

So does anyone here believe that those terms and conditions, let's say if a woman falls and breaks her leg will be considered valid in US court as defense to a claim?

Terms and conditions, house rules etc at casinos are a joke. Only thing that matters is gambling statutes and the law. Pointing to house rules in casinos is a waste of time.

Where is the Malaysian verbage? When you signup for a card there is some page you have to scroll through? Is it a sign somewhere by the entry?

[Darkoz]

Well not certain how to post pic but basically go to Resorts world terms and conditions and you will find that you agree that all legal issues will be pursuant to Malaysian law and that you hold them harmless in all claims and if a court decides that they are liable damages are capped at 100 Malaysian Ringgit which I checked has a value of about $18.

I also checked Malaysian courts and you have to be a resident of Malaysia with a valid Malaysian address to file any court case.

So does anyone here believe that those terms and conditions, let's say if a woman falls and breaks her leg will be considered valid in US court as defense to a claim?

Terms and conditions, house rules etc at casinos are a joke. Only thing that matters is gambling statutes and the law. Pointing to house rules in casinos is a waste of time.

Where is the Malaysian verbage? When you signup for a card there is some page you have to scroll through? Is it a sign somewhere by the entry?

It's buried a bit but go to Resorts World players club terms and conditions. It's usually the last few.

I haven't checked every Resorts world location but I know the East coast ones both say these terms.

I just posted pics at WOV if you care to check there.

[DGenBen]

Tableplay (I think) mentioned some time Back about a guy who would clone the magnetic strip and somehow insert that into a machine so when plops played it gave him credit. Totally a felony but it was interesting

Yes, with this technique, a players card is used to deliver a transparent laminate that has the desired mag stripe info on it into the card receptacle. The card (in this role, merely a delivery vessel) is then removed, but the laminate, which cannot be seen, stays and accumulates points for the beneficiary. I suspect this is one of the many reasons smart phones are being pushed as a replacement for cards (kind of like how driverless cars are being pushed [to the point of covering up all the accidents and fatalities these things cause] so that they can shut off a person's car that they don't like for whatever reason rather than having to chase the person down in a dangerous car chase or how smart electronic home utility monitors are being pushed so that they can shut off the power for people who don't pay their utility bills at the push of a button from headquarters rather than having to send out a meter man [who may be putting his life at risk] to shut it off physically).

The person who was doing this was banned from all the casinos in the northern part of a certain state (and not necessarily for ghost-carding). One day though (I had the feeling our paths would cross again at some point), I ran into him again though at a casino he had been kicked out of. He was wearing a giant sombrero-hat, shades, and sporting a Grizzly Adams beard and a hippy hair-do. However I made him in about 3 seconds. I usually don't forget people that clever and that evil (ASFAIK). At a bank of Regals: "You guys are still working this place after all these years ?" "Can I borrow a twenty ?" And off he went (without a twenty). And I haven't seen him since.

I think I ran into some of the machines this guy did this to awhile back when I was in a certain casino on a hot mountain in the Northern part of a certain state, I would put my card in, but no matter what I did it kept registering someone elses name.

[accountinquestion]

Tableplay (I think) mentioned some time Back about a guy who would clone the magnetic strip and somehow insert that into a machine so when plops played it gave him credit. Totally a felony but it was interesting

Yes, with this technique, a players card is used to deliver a transparent laminate that has the desired mag stripe info on it into the card receptacle. The card (in this role, merely a delivery vessel) is then removed, but the laminate, which cannot be seen, stays and accumulates points for the beneficiary. I suspect this is one of the many reasons smart phones are being pushed as a replacement for cards (kind of like how driverless cars are being pushed [to the point of covering up all the accidents and fatalities these things cause] so that they can shut off a person's car that they don't like for whatever reason rather than having to chase the person down in a dangerous car chase or how smart electronic home utility monitors are being pushed so that they can shut off the power for people who don't pay their utility bills at the push of a button from headquarters rather than having to send out a meter man [who may be putting his life at risk] to shut it off physically).

The person who was doing this was banned from all the casinos in the northern part of a certain state (and not necessarily for ghost-carding). One day though (I had the feeling our paths would cross again at some point), I ran into him again though at a casino he had been kicked out of. He was wearing a giant sombrero-hat, shades, and sporting a Grizzly Adams beard and a hippy hair-do. However I made him in about 3 seconds. I usually don't forget people that clever and that evil (ASFAIK). At a bank of Regals: "You guys are still working this place after all these years ?" "Can I borrow a twenty ?" And off he went (without a twenty). And I haven't seen him since.

I think I ran into some of the machines this guy did this to awhile back when I was in a certain casino on a hot mountain in the Northern part of a certain state, I would put my card in, but no matter what I did it kept registering someone elses name.

I wonder how it works. It reads the card as you slide it in .. all you have to do is trick the card removal sensor to not realize the card has been removed..

Really the whole approach doesn't make particular sense to me given how comps work but shrug. Eventually they come across the slug (for lack of better name) in the machine and should be able to trace back which was logged in but wouldn't it just time out at most casinos even if it did make sense to use one?

I guess you put the thing in a HL machine, hope no one recognizes it.. then come back later and remove it??? lol. Given the level of skill required to make such a thing it seems maybe I am missing something. I don't really care to see too much discussed in public though........ I guess back whenever and at whatever property the cards didn't time-out their sessions.

[Tasha]

In my personal experience , most people who aren't comfortable with playing with someone else's Player's Club Card in their machine will NOT threaten to report you to Casino Staff for merely asking if you could put your Player's Club Card in their machine while they play. They will just politely say something like,"No, I'd rather you not put your card in my machine as I play." You just say something like,"Okay, thanks for responding," and leave. The only time someone threatened to report me to Casino Staff is when I asked the 22 year old lady if I could put my Player's Club Card in her machine and her Mother was like,"Stop speaking to my Daughter or I will report you to Casino Staff, " but it's VERY possible that she told her Mother,"Some random woman asked me to play on her Player's Club Card! I was so uncomfortable but I'm too shy too say no, so I spun for a couple of times and then went to this machine." Her Mother probably said,"If she comes to you again and asked you again to play on her Player's Club Card, I'll tell her off for you." Daughter probably said,"That'll help me out a lot." So, when I asked the Daughter AGAIN at the second machine, her Mother shut that down right off the bat. I'm theorizing that the Daughter most likely told her how uncomfortable I made her feel at the first machine, because most people are just politely like,"No, I'd rather not play on your Player's Club Card."

[MaxPen]

Maybe you would have more success if you offer them a mystery treat from your hobo bag.

[MisterV]

Or you can find a sailor playing slots and offer to blow him if he'll let you use your card in his machine.

When he's done playing and wants his johnson sucked just hit him with your handbag, yelling "Fresh" and walk away.

[Tasha]

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-...ting-you-guys/

My God, LMAO how I've done a complete 180 from the me who was completely appalled that People asked random Strangers to play on their Player's Club Card! Back then, I was thinking,"People ask random strangers to play on their Player's Club Card? What the fuck? Who does that weird crap?" And cut to present day,well, a complete 180.

[MaxPen]

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-...ting-you-guys/

My God, LMAO how I've done a complete 180 from the me who was completely appalled that People asked random Strangers to play on their Player's Club Card! Back then, I was thinking,"People ask random strangers to play on their Player's Club Card? What the fuck? Who does that weird crap?" And cut to present day,well, a complete 180.

Before you know it you will be wearing masks and having your relative's significant others robbing you....

[Darkoz]

Tasha

Can you confirm if you get monthly mail from the casino? Or is it online only and if monthly are the offers weekly or daily and locked?

If you don't know what I am talking about just say so. I am trying to discern why your local casino might have such offers as you mention and I have a theory.

As for the 22 year old it was probably her age. I discovered t h at the younger the gambler, the more they saw players cards as the same as credit cards. In her mind you were attempting some form of identity theft.

[Tasha]

Tasha

Can you confirm if you get monthly mail from the casino? Or is it online only and if monthly are the offers weekly or daily and locked?

If you don't know what I am talking about just say so. I am trying to discern why your local casino might have such offers as you mention and I have a theory.

As for the 22 year old it was probably her age. I discovered t h at the younger the gambler, the more they saw players cards as the same as credit cards. In her mind you were attempting some form of identity theft.

From Hialeah, I get like $85, from Gulfstream, I don't get any offers YET, but I most likely will get offers for November or December from Gulfstream I had played REALLY hard recently. I won a $100 hot seat Promotion and had played like $700 coin in from that $100 Promotion I had also won either $100 or $200 in a sudden Bingo Promotion (The Upper Casino had been closed because of an air conditioning problem, so only the lower Casino was open, and they did a sudden Bingo Promotion when it was supposed to be a Slot Tournament. I always lose the Slot Tournament Promotion, :/ but with Bingo, I often win at least $100. I also played like $1,000 coin in on another day, so I definitely should be getting my free play offers back in November or December.

[kewlJ]

Congrats that you are getting higher amounts of free play Tasha. I remember when you used to talk about $15 or $20 a month.

So how much does it cost you to get $85 in free play. If it costs less that $85, that is an advantage play.

[MisterV]

So how much does it cost you to get $85 in free play. If it costs less that $85, that is an advantage play.

Not to quibble, but...

It seems to me that $85 in free play is not worth $85 in currency; you can't cash it out (at least I've not been able to) and you must play it through, exposing it to the house edge.

[kewlJ]

Yes, you are correct MrV. But close enough that everyone understood my meaning.

[MisterV]

It seems to me that if the end result of AP is getting free play then that's not much to bank on, due to uncertainty.

One would hope that they need not have to gamble again with gmbling winnings: can't pay the rent with free play.

[kewlJ]

It seems to me that if the end result of AP is getting free play then that's not much to bank on, due to uncertainty.

One would hope that they need not have to gamble again with gmbling winnings: can't pay the rent with free play.

I am surprised to read you say this MrV and completely disagree.

Lets use $100 in free play for simplicity. That $100 in free play has a value that can be calculated. Lets say you are playing bonus poker which is mostly what my partner and I played. @ 99.17 return that $100 is worth $99.17. Now of course variance comes into play. Maybe on one particular play through you run bad and your $100 free play turns into $23.75. But the next time you play through $100 in free play you hit 2 4oak and return $$282.50. In the end with enough of a sample size your return will average $99.17. That is the math of it. Now I don't know what slot games Tasha plays. May be much lower return. But there is a reasonable expectation that you can count on.

This is what my partner and I did with VP play supplementing my blackjack play for 10 years.

Now you threw in the comment about counting on that for the rent. I don't know what to say about that. If that is really all the money you have, you could easily hit some negative variance for a month or two, so if you are really depending on that for rent, yeah, not a good idea. But I see nothing wrong with counting on expectation over the long run (past the variance). But like most things with gambling you need the bankroll to withstand any negative variance.

[MisterV]

Oh, I understand your points, KJ: my point is that in the short run variance could negatively affect results, and if someone needs the money it simply isn't there ... yet?

I am thinking of my own situation as a recreational slot player; Chinook Winds, a tribal joint, has a lower RTP than Las Vegas casinos, somewhere in the eighties, so that is what I had in mind.

I probably shouldn't have linked my comments to AP, as that is not what I am familiar with

[tableplay]

I wonder how it works. It reads the card as you slide it in .. all you have to do is trick the card removal sensor to not realize the card has been removed..

You could probably deliver the laminate with your library card. As long as the library card fits into the slot snugly. Once the laminate is in place, the library card (or arcade card or any card with the same dimensions as a players club from that casino) is pulled from the slot and all that's left inside is the laminate (which is invisible without careful scrutiny) with the mag strip info on it that racks up points for the beneficiary. IIRC, he may have gripped the edge of the laminate to keep it from sliding back out with the mule card when it was pulled out. Way beyond my pay-grade, so I may have gotten some stuff wrong about this.

[tableplay]

I think I ran into some of the machines this guy did this to awhile back when I was in a certain casino on a hot mountain in the Northern part of a certain state, I would put my card in, but no matter what I did it kept registering someone elses name.

Very likely Ben. Also, like most people, you probably didn't bother reporting it to the Indian Casino security thugs (actually, in your case, I would say the chance of this would be close to zero), so that the laminate continued to rack up points. At some point, perhaps the perp comes back and removes the laminate to conceal the points accrual (or maybe the laminate degrades and then customers' cards work normally again after the degradation), but who knows - I am not going to try and get inside of the head of this guy. Not all of this guy's backoffs were from ghost-carding (as I like to call it and I am guessing that some of his back offs were from ghost-carding) - IIRC, he said that he had also been backed off for voucher hustling, and in one instance was told he could come back to a particular casino if he paid the voucher back (somewhere around a grand is what he claimed). He also claimed, that he had been kicked out of a particular casino I used to see him at for sleeping in his car after he had been warned not to do it again, but I think he was lying about that and that something more serious went down, because people sleep in their cars all the time and don't get heat for it very often. What's fact and what's fiction when it comes out of the mouth of a grifter is hard to discern. The best way to deal with people like this, IMHO, is not at all, since no matter what comes out of their mouth, it is an angle - any time and all the time. Luckily, I don't run across people like this very often - people that sharp and that evil are almost always trouble.