What is the most efficient use of comp points?

[Alan Mendelson]

Different casinos have different players clubs, reward programs, comp programs, etc. Is there one that stands out as "the best" and if you are given choices for how you use your comp points, what is the most efficient choice you can make?

Caesars/Harrahs has a wide variety of uses for Total Reward points including:

1. Covering hotel bills
2. Buying gifts from its gift catalogue
3. Buying merchandise in gift shops
4. Paying for show tickets
5. Paying for restaurant tabs
6. Redeeming TR points for free-play (new option)

Not every option has the same redemption rate.

Using your own experience, what "redemption deal" was best? Go ahead and name names. What's the casino, and what was the deal?

[Rob.Singer]

I've always felt Harrahs gave me the most comp value for my play, and I've played at them all (Nevada based). Their mailers have always had big surprises, and in 2009 when I visited every US location and Windsor, they absolutely showered me with thousands of dollars in freeplay because I got my Harrahs "passport" stamped at every one of them whether I played at them or not.

PS: I await arci's needing the last word here too....just as "projected" in the other thread where he just couldn't STAND to leave it be!!

Arci, please, don't ever pass. I NEED you for a good belly laugh every now & then!

[redietz]

This was discussed elsewhere, and the decisions are difficult. Basically, you need to do the research to establish the value in each category, obviously. Only, unlike Dancer, one should assign just a 50% value to merchandise because that's standard retail markup. It'd be hard to evaluate show value for comps, as Harrah's instituted those 48-hour passes, but I suspect headliner show value comes out highest. Harrah's has buffet passes now, so paying comp retail value for individual buffets would be a bad value. High-end dining is overpriced, so bad value there. Everything on comp lists has overinflated prices -- except maybe show tickets, and one has to make sure the seats you're getting are superior to Tix 4 Tonight ticket deals.

[Alan Mendelson]

redietz how about a real life example, you tell me which is better:

Let's say you have $300 worth of comps. You can use the $300 for a gourmet dinner for two at the casino, or meals for a weekend at lower priced restaurants at the casino, OR, you can convert the $300 worth of comps into a "gas card" worth $150 at the pumps?

[Rob.Singer]

I always looked at Harrahs best comp value as all those free trips they gave us to go to Tahoe, Reno, AC, and Louisiana. I was never higher than diamond either. On the gifts (not counting the year-end great gift giveaways) my wife had so many Coach and D&B purses that we must have given away a dozen before downsizing for full-time RV life. And that only touches the surface. My "home base" property btw was always the Rio, where some of my largest wins also came on their bartop 6/5 BP and 7/5 TBP+ up to $25 machines. So you see, whether a machine is "negative EV" or "positive EV" makes no difference when you play each session as an individual session, and when you return it's right back to the lower denomination as well as the lower volatility game.
Those who choose to continue claiming that it's all one long session can continue being confused and fooled over why each hand is independent from any that have come before and/ or have yet to come....yet they want it to be that it's OK to say sessions are not independent.

[redietz]

In you example, Alan, I think I'd go for the lower priced meals, since you take a 50% hit on the gas card. It would figure the gourrmet meal markup is higher, so the best value would be the lower-priced meals.

[arcimede$]

I've always felt Harrahs gave me the most comp value for my play, and I've played at them all (Nevada based). Their mailers have always had big surprises, and in 2009 when I visited every US location and Windsor, they absolutely showered me with thousands of dollars in freeplay because I got my Harrahs "passport" stamped at every one of them whether I played at them or not.

But, but ... according to a prior version of your claims the casinos would NEVER, I repeat NEVER, allow APers to win. They would track all their results and boot them out. But now, you're claiming the casinos did exactly the opposite when dealing with you.

Bwah haha haha haha haha haha

The more wheels comments the more obvious his lies become.

[Alan Mendelson]

Actually, I thought Rob wasn't playing with a card and therefore would not get comps?

[Rob.Singer]

One of the reasons people laugh at you arci--besides rarely contributing to the point of the threads--is because they know when you're lying about the most elementary of issues. You've seen many times, for instance, where I quit using my slot card when playing SPS after getting stopped from playing at several Strip casinos in 2002.

I know, I know....those pesky little facts again.....

[Rob.Singer]

Actually, I thought Rob wasn't playing with a card and therefore would not get comps?

I always played with a card when playing my other four strategies, which were RTT, ARTT, MULTI-STRIKE, & 5-PLAY. These were mostly played between 25c & $5 and had much smaller win goals.

[arcimede$]

Actually, I thought Rob wasn't playing with a card and therefore would not get comps?

Actually, that's probably correct. The points he got were from other folks playing on his card during education sessions.

[Alan Mendelson]

Actually, that's probably correct. The points he got were from other folks playing on his card during education sessions.

Let's just say that's true. And if it were true, how much could someone get in comps? Or cash back? Or free play? I'm sure the "students" weren't learning on $5/coin video poker. And even at $1/coin video poker comps and cash back and free play come slowly.

If really a "teaching session" play must come slowly. If you were teaching and explaining draws and holds, you might only play four hands a minute (or even fewer hands). But at four hands a minute you'd be playing 240 hands per hour. At $1/coin video poker that's $1200 coin-in per hour.

Most casinos "cut" video poker comps by half, so now you're down to $600 per hour of coin-in.

Rob says his favorite comps were from the Harrah's (now Caesars) properties. Their comp policy really hasn't changed over the years, so $600 per hour of coin-in on video poker would earn you 60 (sixty) reward credits per hour. And 60 reward credits per hour translates into SIXTY CENTS per hour of comps.

Do you really think sixty cents per hour of comps was that important to Rob?

So, you think I'm off. If the play was twice as fast that would mean $1.20 per hour. If they were on a $5 machine that would be either $3 an hour playing slowly, or $6 an hour playing at twice the speed.

Do you think it's worth debating?

[arcimede$]

Alan, I doubt Singer is teaching anyone the basics. Also, he claims to use denominations up to $100. Not sure if any of his "students" would go that far. Also, he's been known to train multiple people at the same time.

Look, I never said the scam would make anyone rich. It just happens to be morally wrong on many levels.

[Alan Mendelson]

Alan, I doubt Singer is teaching anyone the basics. Also, he claims to use denominations up to $100. Not sure if any of his "students" would go that far. Also, he's been known to train multiple people at the same time.

Look, I never said the scam would make anyone rich. It just happens to be morally wrong on many levels.

First, let's stop using the word "scam" here except that it relates to cheating the casino's slot club. And I don't know many players who don't try to cheat the casino's slot club. (LOL)

I really doubt Singer's lessons would last too long. Even if they went two hours, what are you talking about -- six dollars in comps? Ten dollars in comps? The tips to the cocktail waitress could be as much during that time.

This to me has always been a non issue, and once I figured out the value of playing with a slot card for an hour at a slow pace on a $1/coin machine I was really convinced this is a whole bunch of nothing.

Arc, let me ask you this: the OEJ game you favor so much you said does not have a slot club reader? So how do you qualify for the comps and cashback and promotions you play your certain number of hours for? Or did I misread your posts and those machines do have card readers?

[Rob.Singer]

Alan, think about this regular arci lie. If you agreed to meet me at Caesars for training, how stupid would you have to be to say "I'll use my money but we'll use your player's card"? It's never been a requirement, I've used my card when the student doesn't want to get one, and it's a lie perpetuated by the hacks on videopoker.com--several of which are exactly where they belong today. Besides, unlike AP's or even regular players like yourself, I can take or leave comps because they've never had anything to do with my beating the machines for all I have. The highest denom. student has ever played with me is $25.

[Alan Mendelson]

Frankly Rob, even if it were a requirement... SO WHAT? Teachers and tutors get paid all the time. And if your "pay" is getting a few comp dollars I would think it's a bargain. How much do those others charge for one on one training?

I don't know what the video poker pros charge, but I know that the craps "teachers" charge up to $1500 a day.

[arcimede$]

Arc, let me ask you this: the OEJ game you favor so much you said does not have a slot club reader? So how do you qualify for the comps and cashback and promotions you play your certain number of hours for? Or did I misread your posts and those machines do have card readers?

You misread. What I've said is the machine does not support downloading freeplay. It has nothing to do with the card reader.

[Alan Mendelson]

thanks for clearing that up, Arc. At Caesars, they do not yet have a system where you can download free play. They do have those systems at Pechanga and Rincon here in San Diego. At Caesars free play still comes in the form of a ticket that you insert in the machine. However, the "new system" is the system being used at Rincon. Rincon was the "test" for it and eventually it is supposed to be used throughout Caesars' properties. It not only allows you to download free play but also order drinks, and even redeem comps such as tickets, free rooms, and even make reservations.

[Rob.Singer]

Frankly Rob, even if it were a requirement... SO WHAT? Teachers and tutors get paid all the time. And if your "pay" is getting a few comp dollars I would think it's a bargain. How much do those others charge for one on one training?

I don't know what the video poker pros charge, but I know that the craps "teachers" charge up to $1500 a day.

This is why. When Chuck DiRocco fired Dancer and hack Skip Hughes and asked me to be his vp writer, he wanted to pay me the same as he was paying those guys--$100/article. I refused (just as I always refused to be paid anything by any students of mine) because I did not become a professional in gaming just to make money off of other people or to say I needed money for everything I did. I made my living solely by playing the game and I wanted it to be that way for the duration. Most people--my two publishers included--saw that as refreshing in an industry where phonies of all types regularly pop up ready to take pay from anywhere to cover up their losing ways. And before we see another arci rant of lies, all my book profits went to my children.

Dancer charges $250/hour at the machines or in any manner that he spends his time for others.

[bigfoot66]

Alan, I doubt Singer is teaching anyone the basics. Also, he claims to use denominations up to $100. Not sure if any of his "students" would go that far. Also, he's been known to train multiple people at the same time.

Look, I never said the scam would make anyone rich. It just happens to be morally wrong on many levels.

I haven't read past here on the board yet, but come on. Really? There are plenty of areas to bang on Rob Singer that are right on. But he is willing to train people on his nonconvential strategy and just asks that they give him the comp points in return. How is this morally wrong on any level? Its an offer no one has to accept.

You lose credibility when you make claims like this.