backoffs, baring and play restrictions

[Treeshade]

True. I know of APs that count all that garbage as their profit. They lose 2 grand doing whatever gambling, but the casino comps them a room, a couple meals, and some trinkets like a sweatshirt on gift day and they think they have won.

For many years, my partner and I ate at least 1 meal, sometimes 2, every day (even days we weren't playing) at a casino, courtesy of the casino. I never included those over-priced meals as "winnings". It was just a perk. And the value to me, wasn't whatever over-inflated price the casino put on it. The value was what we would have spent had we paid cash to grab a sandwich for lunch somewhere.

The funny thing was watching how the casinos rang up comps. Lunch buffet cost $8.99. Paying with points, the cashier would ring up 15.00 comped (each). Only 8.99 would be deducted from comp points, but for their bookkeeping, you received a value of $30.00.

Back in the day, I have also seen/read card counters tone down their spread, so they could get in 4 hours of play to get a room comp. Ok, their normal spread was worth $80/hr, they toned it down to where they were making $40 for those 4 hours, meaning the cost of that comped room was $160 to them. Had they just paid for the room back then on a weekday it was $39.

Now I used to network with a guy, who counted cards at a high level using a very small bet spread. A break even type bet spread of like 1-3 maybe betting $300 - $900 (and this was 10 years ago that he told me, maybe longer that he actually practiced this). So he would basically break even long-term. There was no heat at a spread like that. And then the casino would shower him with gifts, including gift cards (think visa) and shopping sprees in their higher end gift shop (think jewelry). He would then take everything he received including tickets to shows, and sell it on ebay. That was were his profit came from, not from the 1-3 spread counting cards. I always thought this was creative but man, a lot of work. But again, a $2000 shopping spree at the high end gift shop was really only worth a couple hundred dollars that you could sell that crap for.

So the price the casino put on things is just funny. It is basically a Donald Trump Grift.

Not one successful AP counts free gifts and food from the casino as part of their earn. Maybe broke APs who need such things to survive do. More nonsense from you

Dancer does.

Dancer did back when he was selling fight tickets and shit like that. Today if you are counting food and free gifts as part of your earn then I would argue that your not successful.

Cash back would be different

Comps on occasion that can be used at 1-1 basis to buy high end watches and bags would also be very rare in todays market. Although there are still shops like this but you better have a contact in the stores carrying the good merchandise. Otherwise what’s left is junk

[Treeshade]

Not one successful AP counts free gifts and food from the casino as part of their earn. Maybe broke APs who need such things to survive do. More nonsense from you

Dancer does.

Dancer did back when he was selling fight tickets and shit like that. Today if you are counting food and free gifts as part of your earn then I would argue that your not successful.

Cash back would be different

Comps on occasion that can be used at 1-1 basis to buy high end watches and bags would also be very rare in todays market. Although there are still shops like this but you better have a contact in the stores carrying the good merchandise. Otherwise what’s left is junk

Video poker players who calculate the EV of every drawling entry are the worst in my opinion. Spending 90 hours a week sitting at a machine losing 7 min of your life expectancy every few hours from second hand smoke while pounding down honey buns is a miserable existence. I bet most of these guys don’t even realize they are gambling addicts

[accountinquestion]

Comps on occasion that can be used at 1-1 basis to buy high end watches and bags would also be very rare in todays market. Although there are still shops like this but you better have a contact in the stores carrying the good merchandise. Otherwise what’s left is junk

What am I missing. Don't you just go in the shops and choose whatever you want with whatever credit the casino gives you? What would a hook-up in the store help?

[kewlJ]

You can make good money counting by traveling the country playing a hit and run style. Not spending to much time in each casino. There are guys on the road consistently making mid 6 figures without problems.

Seedvalue, are you really talking about now, present day, or are you going back a few years?

I knew some players playing doing this 8,10,12 years ago. Travel the country playing higher stakes for a year or two until you burn out everywhere. You could make 400, 500, 600K before you were done, depending on how long you lasted a year, 18 months. It was basically what KC did in the documentary inside the edge. It was often debated on forums as milking vs slaughtering or shearing vs slaughtering. You get the analogy.

But I don't know anyone doing this now. You just can't outrun the technology. I had two different cases of losing that race myself. One when I was backed off at Valley Forge on one of my East Coast trip about 5 years ago. I actually was a dick and fucked with them figuring I wouldn't be back to that small sweaty dump. THAT was a stupid move. 2 or 3 days later when returning back to Vegas I was immediately backed off two of my regular locations. You Can't outrun technology and electronic transferred information.

A very similar incident a year or two later, when I was backed off in Reno. I returned to Vegas a couple days later and was backed off one of my regular spots. Then that night I got a call from my pit friend, who advised me I had a brand new entry in the database. I said "yeah, I figured".

So I just don't know anyone still doing that whole rome the country playing high stakes for as long as you can thing anymore. If you want to achieve longevity with card counting I really think it is about figuring what stakes you can play without rocking the boat too much, plus lots of other subtle little things you can do to make your play more tolerable. Of course there is a ceiling to playing like that, 80-100k. And that is probably why there are so few pure card counters left. They have moved on to other more lucrative things.

[accountinquestion]

You can make good money counting by traveling the country playing a hit and run style. Not spending to much time in each casino. There are guys on the road consistently making mid 6 figures without problems.

Seedvalue, are you really talking about now, present day, or are you going back a few years?

I knew some players playing doing this 8,10,12 years ago. Travel the country playing higher stakes for a year or two until you burn out everywhere. You could make 400, 500, 600K before you were done, depending on how long you lasted a year, 18 months. It was basically what KC did in the documentary inside the edge. It was often debated on forums as milking vs slaughtering or shearing vs slaughtering. You get the analogy.

But I don't know anyone doing this now. You just can't outrun the technology. I had two different cases of losing that race myself. One when I was backed off at Valley Forge on one of my East Coast trip about 5 years ago. I actually was a dick and fucked with them figuring I wouldn't be back to that small sweaty dump. THAT was a stupid move. 2 or 3 days later when returning back to Vegas I was immediately backed off two of my regular locations. You Can't outrun technology and electronic transferred information.

A very similar incident a year or two later, when I was backed off in Reno. I returned to Vegas a couple days later and was backed off one of my regular spots. Then that night I got a call from my pit friend, who advised me I had a brand new entry in the database. I said "yeah, I figured".

So I just don't know anyone still doing that whole rome the country playing high stakes for as long as you can thing anymore. If you want to achieve longevity with card counting I really think it is about figuring what stakes you can play without rocking the boat too much, plus lots of other subtle little things you can do to make your play more tolerable. Of course there is a ceiling to playing like that, 80-100k. And that is probably why there are so few pure card counters left. They have moved on to other more lucrative things.

How many other blackjack players do you know that are not forum posters? How have you networked with them?

[kewlJ]

You can make good money counting by traveling the country playing a hit and run style. Not spending to much time in each casino. There are guys on the road consistently making mid 6 figures without problems.

Seedvalue, are you really talking about now, present day, or are you going back a few years?

I knew some players playing doing this 8,10,12 years ago. Travel the country playing higher stakes for a year or two until you burn out everywhere. You could make 400, 500, 600K before you were done, depending on how long you lasted a year, 18 months. It was basically what KC did in the documentary inside the edge. It was often debated on forums as milking vs slaughtering or shearing vs slaughtering. You get the analogy.

But I don't know anyone doing this now. You just can't outrun the technology. I had two different cases of losing that race myself. One when I was backed off at Valley Forge on one of my East Coast trip about 5 years ago. I actually was a dick and fucked with them figuring I wouldn't be back to that small sweaty dump. THAT was a stupid move. 2 or 3 days later when returning back to Vegas I was immediately backed off two of my regular locations. You Can't outrun technology and electronic transferred information.

A very similar incident a year or two later, when I was backed off in Reno. I returned to Vegas a couple days later and was backed off one of my regular spots. Then that night I got a call from my pit friend, who advised me I had a brand new entry in the database. I said "yeah, I figured".

So I just don't know anyone still doing that whole rome the country playing high stakes for as long as you can thing anymore. If you want to achieve longevity with card counting I really think it is about figuring what stakes you can play without rocking the boat too much, plus lots of other subtle little things you can do to make your play more tolerable. Of course there is a ceiling to playing like that, 80-100k. And that is probably why there are so few pure card counters left. They have moved on to other more lucrative things.

How many other blackjack players do you know that are not forum posters? How have you networked with them?

Do I need to remind you, that you have lost the privilege of me responding to you because you can't behave in a decent and civilized manner. As far as I am concerned you are talking to yourself. You are like Garnabby2.

[mickeycrimm]

Tough to tell just WHAT Robert's real motivation is; why does he concoct such elaborate cons?

The man isn't stupid so he probably (hopefully?) realizes that we're on to him: so it can't be respect he's after.

He might have sought it earlier but by now the jig is up.

So that leaves trolling...and the pleasure he gets from it by fucking with people.

Probably a similar dynamic behind the dawg as well.

That is what one would think but I'm not so sure.. he has been doing this sort of shit for many years now.. he wrote a whole book trying to gain attention and credibility.. it 100% was not a troll. People have weird motivations that just aren't right.. the nasty cat guy.. Kewl .. Robert.. Mdawg at least tries to be amusing I guess. I don't read his stuff much .. Redietz seems to want cred and backers.

Singer used to be more of an enigma but it really appears to be an effort to impress... It all seems retarded though, right? So who knows.

"Redietz seems to want cred and backers." Except for the fact that in 10,000 posts on this and other sites, going back literally decades, not once has redietz ever recruited backers. Not in posts. Not in PMs. Not once.

But account decides to opine with his usual loose thinking, making shit up as he types away.

Wanting "cred?" The only people on this site who halfway know anything about what I do are Boz, regnis, and Witteles. The migration of "APs" to this site has been a study in overblown weirdness. The culture of sports betting is larger than the culture of "APing" by at least a factor of 10 and maybe more like a hundred, yet the "APs" think they have relevant answers and expertise, like freshmen taking grad courses.

Carry on.

I read your ad on your site looking for investors. You promised them what, 10% return on their investment? Why would a world class sports bettor need investors? And where did all the in investors go? Were you working with Steve Stevens?

[mickeycrimm]

the fact that in 10,000 posts on this and other sites, going back literally decades, not once has redietz ever recruited backers. Not in posts. Not in PMs. Not once.

I don't care how much some people may not like Redietz because they find him condescending, or even how wrong he is about EV , or the stupid thing he said about mickeycrimm's social security, this is absolutely the truth. There is ZERO evidence redietz has used these forums to solicit any clients. There is exactly one person who has ever claimed that, and he is if not the least credible person, then 1 of 2 that I have ever run across.

It is just really low and small of people to make up shit, just because you have decided you don't like someone.

He was panhandling for investors on his website. I and many others saw it.

[kewlJ]

the fact that in 10,000 posts on this and other sites, going back literally decades, not once has redietz ever recruited backers. Not in posts. Not in PMs. Not once.

I don't care how much some people may not like Redietz because they find him condescending, or even how wrong he is about EV , or the stupid thing he said about mickeycrimm's social security, this is absolutely the truth. There is ZERO evidence redietz has used these forums to solicit any clients. There is exactly one person who has ever claimed that, and he is if not the least credible person, then 1 of 2 that I have ever run across.

It is just really low and small of people to make up shit, just because you have decided you don't like someone.

He was panhandling for investors on his website. I and many others saw it.

That is fine mickeycrimm. We all know what the sports betting industry is and that many sports bettor do that type of touting. I don't beleive there is any rule against having your own site and doing that, is there?

And if you guys want to point out that he did that on his own site, that is fine too. My only gripe is people making up this narrative where he has used this and other forums to solicit people, when I see no evidence of that at all. Remember when Dan Druff busted Mdawg for soliciting people? And that was only involving trolling activity. If Redietz was soliciting members here, Dan Druff would have known about it and put a stop to it, don't ya think?

I am not talking specifically of you, but I am just getting really tired of this bullshit where if someone doesn't like someone it is fair game to make up whatever you want about them. THAT isn't free speech, as Druff defends it as. That is slander, and in the real world people would have their ass hauled off into court for slander and defamation.

Can't we all just not like someone, not believe someone's claims without this kind of bullshit? Redietz has done and said more than enough things to warrant legitimate criticism hasn't he? Do people really need to make up shit?

[accountinquestion]

Seedvalue, are you really talking about now, present day, or are you going back a few years?

I knew some players playing doing this 8,10,12 years ago. Travel the country playing higher stakes for a year or two until you burn out everywhere. You could make 400, 500, 600K before you were done, depending on how long you lasted a year, 18 months. It was basically what KC did in the documentary inside the edge. It was often debated on forums as milking vs slaughtering or shearing vs slaughtering. You get the analogy.

But I don't know anyone doing this now. You just can't outrun the technology. I had two different cases of losing that race myself. One when I was backed off at Valley Forge on one of my East Coast trip about 5 years ago. I actually was a dick and fucked with them figuring I wouldn't be back to that small sweaty dump. THAT was a stupid move. 2 or 3 days later when returning back to Vegas I was immediately backed off two of my regular locations. You Can't outrun technology and electronic transferred information.

A very similar incident a year or two later, when I was backed off in Reno. I returned to Vegas a couple days later and was backed off one of my regular spots. Then that night I got a call from my pit friend, who advised me I had a brand new entry in the database. I said "yeah, I figured".

So I just don't know anyone still doing that whole rome the country playing high stakes for as long as you can thing anymore. If you want to achieve longevity with card counting I really think it is about figuring what stakes you can play without rocking the boat too much, plus lots of other subtle little things you can do to make your play more tolerable. Of course there is a ceiling to playing like that, 80-100k. And that is probably why there are so few pure card counters left. They have moved on to other more lucrative things.

How many other blackjack players do you know that are not forum posters? How have you networked with them?

Do I need to remind you, that you have lost the privilege of me responding to you because you can't behave in a decent and civilized manner. As far as I am concerned you are talking to yourself. You are like Garnabby2.

What a privilege I have lost.

So yea, thats why you won't answer a question you can't.

This idea you know these various counters but have not met anyone online is crazy. You allude to these people fairly often. Given your tirades about not meeting APs then how do you know them?

Exchanging PMs I guess...

[MDawg]

There is a clear trend that has developed now. All of KewlJ's implied associates are turning out to be other invented characters in his years of lies. ...RIP

[MDawg]

FraudJ spends every waking moment thinking of how he might convince a gaggle of forum people that he is legitimate. That's the ultimate in solicitation, where it consumes one's entire being.

I really don't care what people think about me.

[MDawg]

Do I need to remind you, that you have lost the privilege of me responding

Interesting because despite repeatedly vowing that he is "done" with responding to me (and to R.Singer), he keeps coming back for more abuse.

I don't want to hear some heroic noble BS about how nobody's going to run me off BS. I'm not an idiot, that's not what this is about.

If I had to ask myself and wonder why someone would stay and keep taking a pounding while taking into account all the bad things they claim have happened to them....

I would have to guess that it's all BS, therefore nothing bad has ever happened to them, and therefore there's no real reason to leave/ stop.

[accountinquestion]

That is fine mickeycrimm. We all know what the sports betting industry is and that many sports bettor do that type of touting. I don't beleive there is any rule against having your own site and doing that, is there?

And if you guys want to point out that he did that on his own site, that is fine too. My only gripe is people making up this narrative where he has used this and other forums to solicit people, when I see no evidence of that at all. Remember when Dan Druff busted Mdawg for soliciting people? And that was only involving trolling activity. If Redietz was soliciting members here, Dan Druff would have known about it and put a stop to it, don't ya think?

I am not talking specifically of you, but I am just getting really tired of this bullshit where if someone doesn't like someone it is fair game to make up whatever you want about them. THAT isn't free speech, as Druff defends it as. That is slander, and in the real world people would have their ass hauled off into court for slander and defamation.

Can't we all just not like someone, not believe someone's claims without this kind of bullshit? Redietz has done and said more than enough things to warrant legitimate criticism hasn't he? Do people really need to make up shit?

No one said there was any rule. What are you going on about FraudJ?

I have no idea how Redietz solicits people but he clearly tries to establish credibility. I said something like "Seems to want backers". That is pretty much true from my vantage but who knows.

I'd love to have seen his presentation at the book club.

So no nothing was made up about Redietz. I gave my opinion and it was clearly an opinion at that. "seems to want". You're pathetic your need to create drama. Nothing here was just randomly made up.

I wish you would not involve me.

Get help.

There are aid associations that can raise you out of the tunnel life.

[accountinquestion]

I read your ad on your site looking for investors. You promised them what, 10% return on their investment? Why would a world class sports bettor need investors? And where did all the in investors go? Were you working with Steve Stevens?

This is a very very good point. Where did all the investors go ?? <Ahemmmmmmmmm>

I'm hearing that sound I always hear when dealing with Redietz.

<crickets>

[MaxPen]

Tough to tell just WHAT Robert's real motivation is; why does he concoct such elaborate cons?

The man isn't stupid so he probably (hopefully?) realizes that we're on to him: so it can't be respect he's after.

He might have sought it earlier but by now the jig is up.

So that leaves trolling...and the pleasure he gets from it by fucking with people.

Probably a similar dynamic behind the dawg as well.

That is what one would think but I'm not so sure.. he has been doing this sort of shit for many years now.. he wrote a whole book trying to gain attention and credibility.. it 100% was not a troll. People have weird motivations that just aren't right.. the nasty cat guy.. Kewl .. Robert.. Mdawg at least tries to be amusing I guess. I don't read his stuff much .. Redietz seems to want cred and backers.

Singer used to be more of an enigma but it really appears to be an effort to impress... It all seems retarded though, right? So who knows.

"Redietz seems to want cred and backers." Except for the fact that in 10,000 posts on this and other sites, going back literally decades, not once has redietz ever recruited backers. Not in posts. Not in PMs. Not once.

But account decides to opine with his usual loose thinking, making shit up as he types away.

Wanting "cred?" The only people on this site who halfway know anything about what I do are Boz, regnis, and Witteles. The migration of "APs" to this site has been a study in overblown weirdness. The culture of sports betting is larger than the culture of "APing" by at least a factor of 10 and maybe more like a hundred, yet the "APs" think they have relevant answers and expertise, like freshmen taking grad courses.

Carry on.

What's the real purpose behind things like the book club talks? What are you fishing for at something like that?

[Treeshade]

Comps on occasion that can be used at 1-1 basis to buy high end watches and bags would also be very rare in todays market. Although there are still shops like this but you better have a contact in the stores carrying the good merchandise. Otherwise what’s left is junk

What am I missing. Don't you just go in the shops and choose whatever you want with whatever credit the casino gives you? What would a hook-up in the store help?

If there’s is a rare hand bag or high end watch a hook up At the store will call you the minute it comes in. Even put them aside so you can purchase later. There’s normally limited available for certain items and if other APs are looking to snag the good loot a hook up will be worth it.

[Treeshade]

You can make good money counting by traveling the country playing a hit and run style. Not spending to much time in each casino. There are guys on the road consistently making mid 6 figures without problems.

Seedvalue, are you really talking about now, present day, or are you going back a few years?

I knew some players playing doing this 8,10,12 years ago. Travel the country playing higher stakes for a year or two until you burn out everywhere. You could make 400, 500, 600K before you were done, depending on how long you lasted a year, 18 months. It was basically what KC did in the documentary inside the edge. It was often debated on forums as milking vs slaughtering or shearing vs slaughtering. You get the analogy.

But I don't know anyone doing this now. You just can't outrun the technology. I had two different cases of losing that race myself. One when I was backed off at Valley Forge on one of my East Coast trip about 5 years ago. I actually was a dick and fucked with them figuring I wouldn't be back to that small sweaty dump. THAT was a stupid move. 2 or 3 days later when returning back to Vegas I was immediately backed off two of my regular locations. You Can't outrun technology and electronic transferred information.

A very similar incident a year or two later, when I was backed off in Reno. I returned to Vegas a couple days later and was backed off one of my regular spots. Then that night I got a call from my pit friend, who advised me I had a brand new entry in the database. I said "yeah, I figured".

So I just don't know anyone still doing that whole rome the country playing high stakes for as long as you can thing anymore. If you want to achieve longevity with card counting I really think it is about figuring what stakes you can play without rocking the boat too much, plus lots of other subtle little things you can do to make your play more tolerable. Of course there is a ceiling to playing like that, 80-100k. And that is probably why there are so few pure card counters left. They have moved on to other more lucrative things.

Yes currently as in this year and every year. When I say hit the road I’m talking multiple months, and states at a time. Most Guys idea of a road trip is a weekend flight to an area with 3 or 4 casinos. This can be profitable as well, but there are still road warriors out here making good money only counting. Staying in one town for 15 years well that’s just not real life

[PositiveVariance]

The effrontery of the male prostitute saying....

With all the bullshit lies about male prostitution, the ONLY evidence of anyone on these forums engaging in prostitution, would be Mdawg hiring a prostitute that drugged him and stole his watch up her cooch. And on the off chance that wasn't Mdawg, it fits the profile exactly. Checks every box.

I wonder how hard it would be to dig up the police record from that incident. Last December wasn't it?

I remember reading about this when it happened and thinking the same thing!

Also, from recent news reports, it has happened on at least 3 more occasions in Vegas in the past 2-3 months...

September 27th - Caesars Palace $120k cash and a Rolex
September 9th - Cosmopolitan $25k cash and $30k Rolex
Early October - Wynn - Rolex watch

All 3 of these were by different women. All were caught. If 3 made the news, imagine how many happened that didn't make the news or were never reported out of embarrassment?

[MDawg]

More evidence that PV and UNKewlJ are cut from the same raggedy cloth is how both seem to think MDawg would be wearing a cheap 20-30k watch. Yes I have many of those but I moved beyond wearing them years ago.

Until I see PV put UNKewlJ down like the rabid dog everyone else sees him as, there’s no need to even point out the obvious fact that they’re linked.