Hahahahhaha lost a $128 ticket

[Rounder]

This discussion is thus far predicated on the lowest common denominator and presented in the simplest of terms. US gambling taxes are far more complicated in reality--as everything related to the IRS has always been.

Other than '00-'09 when I filed Schedule C's, every year I've had to make multiple passes when filling out the tax forms just to claim to feel comfortable with how I was being screwed. A large part of that came from my time as a UK resident, where I had to deal with their version of the IRS. They call it Inland Revenue. Over there, you win £1200 on a slot game or a million pound lottery, it was tax free. Not sure if it's still that way today or not.

But with the IRS it's not as simple as it seems by saying "you can write off losses, if applicable,
up to the extent of your winnings". If you have $279000 in W2G's (plus other winnings totalling $2157 for those who for some reason think it "pays to do things right") then you are allowed to deduct up to $281157 in losses. Poof!--all those pesky signers have been mitigated, right? And who's stupid enuf here to think that's all there is to it?

If you're a Simple Man (yes, the greatest of the Lynyrd Skynyrd songs--the best damn band to ever play live in concert) then you would expect to be going happily on your merry way. But the IRS code and its income-reporting ramifications has far more in store for you--and most people who choose to get involved with casino gambling in the US.

Without going too deep, gambling income, regardless of how much you honestly or dishonestly "wipe out" as losses on Schedule A, always grows your AGI (adjusted gross income for you tax evaders out there) and if you're any kind of successful person and for many varying reasons, you do not want that. Even if you're a bum it can hurt. For instance, remember those free "big checks" the federal Government sent out and/or whatever other "freebies for slugs" came along? Being eligible was all based not on work income or welfare income or SS income etc., but on AGI.

Similarly, because our ridiculous tax code was written by someone with a fried brain, gambling-enhanced AGI's more often than not trigger the unexpected but inescapable AMT (alternative minimum tax) which if you don't prepare for by going thru the IRS's typically nonsensical "keep peeling down the onion" worksheet before filing, you'll eventually feel it since that's a computer-generated audit flag in the form of a big bill.

(Bold Added)

Homeslice, that's basically the first sentence of my first post on this. If you have six-digits in W2-G's, and I would think particularly if your regular income isn't particularly high, the IRS is going to likely request better proof of offset than your personal gambling log; I'm mostly thinking of folks who get a W2-G here or there, and not for any crazy six-figure amounts (or total) could offset it easily enough. I will grant that you went into more detail about AGI and very significant amounts of W2-G's than I'd have been aware of without researching it.

Have you heard how this has worked in practice when audited? What more can they ask for besides your log, bank statements I guess? I have heard casino win loss statements aren't valid tax documentation.

[Don Perignom]

Have you heard how this has worked in practice when audited?

From my limited reading, I think it's at the whim of the people involved.

Here's a case that went against the IRS:

https://www.journalofaccountancy.com...ohan-rule.html

The guy had $350k of w2g's, plus regular income, plus an insurance settlement. He didn't file at all.

When the IRS came after him, he argued that the $350k was offset by losses, but the IRS disagreed so it went to tax court.

He had basically no records, and the casino win-loss statements somehow showed net winnings.

The court ruled in his favor, allowing that his losses exceeded the w2g total. They looked at his full financial situation beyond bank transactions, including assets. And a math expert testified that a net win for the year was almost impossible.

I don't know whether this was one judge or a panel.

[jdog]

The court ruled in his favor, allowing that his losses exceeded the w2g total. They looked at his full financial situation beyond bank transactions, including assets.

Well that's encouraging.

But what kind of idiot wouldn't file with 10s of thousands in W2Gs?? Oh yeah Zenking... that's what started this whole discussion

[DGenBen]

The reason people get confused about how the IRS handles gambling winnings, is because they do not handle it consistently, & some of the rules / laws are open to multiple interpretations.

Its been said that IRS agents based in Nevada would be more familiar & consistent with how they handle gambling because they see a lot more of it than agents elsewhere in the country, especially in areas where there is little or no gambling.

Also the IRS has been hiring many new employees and many of the people processing returns are not experienced & how your taxes get handled can be different based on who handles them there.

Best thing to do is hire a professional to deal with the taxes for you. Someone that can also respond appropriately to letters from the IRS & audits should they come up.

[MaxPen]

The reason people get confused about how the IRS handles gambling winnings, is because they do not handle it consistently, & some of the rules / laws are open to multiple interpretations.

Its been said that IRS agents based in Nevada would be more familiar & consistent with how they handle gambling because they see a lot more of it than agents elsewhere in the country, especially in areas where there is little or no gambling.

Also the IRS has been hiring many new employees and many of the people processing returns are not experienced & how your taxes get handled can be different based on who handles them there.

Best thing to do is hire a professional to deal with the taxes for you. Someone that can also respond appropriately to letters from the IRS & audits should they come up.

Most so called tax professionals are nothing more than collection agents that you pay. Many of them change their story when the letters show up.

[Don Perignom]

Most so called tax professionals are nothing more than paid collection agents. Many of them change their story when the letters show up.

Sounds like you have some interesting stories.

Professionals must always protect their license to operate, so they may be overly attentive to the "letter of the law." That's my impression of expert Russ Fox, who you may have heard on "Gambling with an Edge."

And some professionals simply lack familiarity with gambling taxation.

[MaxPen]

Most so called tax professionals are nothing more than paid collection agents. Many of them change their story when the letters show up.

Sounds like you have some interesting stories.

Professionals must always protect their license to operate, so they may be overly attentive to the "letter of the law." That's my impression of expert Russ Fox, who you may have heard on "Gambling with an Edge."

And some professionals simply lack familiarity with gambling taxation.

That dude is probably in the top 3 clowns of the profession. He probably gets a bonus check every season from the eyeRess.

[Treeshade]

Id be filing too if I was a fucking retard that never read a court ruling in his life constantly mislead by society through your sheer ignorance and fear about who actually goes to jail.

Remember one thing kids. You don't need laws if you can scare everyone into compliance. Hell of a brainwashing the past century. Got to hand it to big government. They did it well and instilled the ultimate gear in the minds of the ignorant.

Yo rounders, how's my ass taste? I can sense the jealousy. Should've made better decisions in your life and you too would have all the time in the world. I failed at blackjack? Hahahhaha. 1000 max bets won with 10% effort. Then when it comes to slots, it's about me working too hard lmao. Try and say I failed at blackjack which was mostly due to me not putting in the hours. Then succeed at slots and say I work too hard. Exactly why these forums and discords will always be my bitch. Bunch of jealous pansies who made poor life choices and now with 5 kids, a wife thats cheating on them or divorced, drowning in debt.

You have no assets except some cash you can't meaningfully spend, as anything significant would ultimately be seized and you know it. It was one thing to live off the grid with your poverty blackjack earn. Now you are going to taunt the system with a plethora on unfiled w-2gs? Like I said, I'm curious to see how this all shakes out.

You have no family. Your life is nothing but sitting behind machines every night and weekend waiting for ploppies to stand up.

Color me jealous.

Btw, the main reason I don't like you is that you are a racist, homophobic piece of shit who treats others badly. Plus, I have disdain for those who contribute nothing to society and do nothing but consume resources. You to a tee. Video games and gambling. What a life.

Maybe take some Econ classes. If he spends 1c in the United States he’s contributing to society. After all the entire economy is run off consumer spending and debt so get off your high horse lefty

[Treeshade]

Simple

You make 100k in February camping a regal Near you. Drive directly to the bank deposit the full amount.

In March go spend that 100k on a multi family home.

Talk to a CPA specializing in Real Estate

Cash out reference the house or sell it loans are not taxed ( talk to CPA )

If you sell it use a 1031 exchange ( talk to CPA )

Invest your money into things that best utilizes the tax code legally. There’s nothing fraudulent by doing so.

Seek to qualify as a real estate professional not a gambler. Again talk to a CPA

You guys need to stop worrying about hiding the money you make, and just look for advantage legal purchases. The tax code is public go read it then talk to a CPA.

[mickeycrimm]

That would be the period from 1951 to 1963 when the top rate was either 91 or 92%.

I remember the Rolling Stones, when they got famous, moved to France because the french took just one-third of their money while the English took 90%.

[Rounder]

Id be filing too if I was a fucking retard that never read a court ruling in his life constantly mislead by society through your sheer ignorance and fear about who actually goes to jail.

Remember one thing kids. You don't need laws if you can scare everyone into compliance. Hell of a brainwashing the past century. Got to hand it to big government. They did it well and instilled the ultimate gear in the minds of the ignorant.

Yo rounders, how's my ass taste? I can sense the jealousy. Should've made better decisions in your life and you too would have all the time in the world. I failed at blackjack? Hahahhaha. 1000 max bets won with 10% effort. Then when it comes to slots, it's about me working too hard lmao. Try and say I failed at blackjack which was mostly due to me not putting in the hours. Then succeed at slots and say I work too hard. Exactly why these forums and discords will always be my bitch. Bunch of jealous pansies who made poor life choices and now with 5 kids, a wife thats cheating on them or divorced, drowning in debt.

You have no assets except some cash you can't meaningfully spend, as anything significant would ultimately be seized and you know it. It was one thing to live off the grid with your poverty blackjack earn. Now you are going to taunt the system with a plethora on unfiled w-2gs? Like I said, I'm curious to see how this all shakes out.

You have no family. Your life is nothing but sitting behind machines every night and weekend waiting for ploppies to stand up.

Color me jealous.

Btw, the main reason I don't like you is that you are a racist, homophobic piece of shit who treats others badly. Plus, I have disdain for those who contribute nothing to society and do nothing but consume resources. You to a tee. Video games and gambling. What a life.

Maybe take some Econ classes. If he spends 1c in the United States he’s contributing to society. After all the entire economy is run off consumer spending and debt so get off your high horse lefty

Hmm, I never thought of it like that.

Now that I think about it, a doctor who saves lives, files taxes, and may even contribute to charities or donates time to helping others, while also spending money in the economy, is basically the same is someone who literally does nothing with their entire life but wait around slot machines for plays as their life's work, is a piece of shit as a person, and never helped anyone in their life. The latter, of course, is a description of Zenking. You don't know know him like I do. He's a total POS.

[Rounder]

Simple

You make 100k in February camping a regal Near you. Drive directly to the bank deposit the full amount.

In March go spend that 100k on a multi family home.

Talk to a CPA specializing in Real Estate

Cash out reference the house or sell it loans are not taxed ( talk to CPA )

If you sell it use a 1031 exchange ( talk to CPA )

Invest your money into things that best utilizes the tax code legally. There’s nothing fraudulent by doing so.

Seek to qualify as a real estate professional not a gambler. Again talk to a CPA

You guys need to stop worrying about hiding the money you make, and just look for advantage legal purchases. The tax code is public go read it then talk to a CPA.

Zen will never file taxes whatsoever. That is the whole point.

Plus, I'm pretty sure your suggestion here has a few holes in it.

I have no idea how these things are all tracked. I have read some states will hold W-2g pays if you owe child support (something Zen will never need be concerned with). Point being, any time your social security number is in the mix, you are exposed. You will absolutely get taxed on the sale of a home if you don't live there at least 2 years. If you buy a multi family and rent out the other unit(s), this is income.

Props to you if you have successfully done this. I will also say that everything is tax deductible until you get caught and anything can work until it doesn't. And when it doesn't, the consequences can be disastrous.

In your scenario, and assuming Zen is willing to file (though he thinks it's unconstitutional of some shit), he also will constantly be worried about the source of his seed money being questioned. Additionally, this doesn't really help with future earnings. Just because your took untaxed money and bought real estate with it will not relieve the money from being taxable.

[Don Perignom]

Now that I think about it, a doctor who saves lives, files taxes, and may even contribute to charities or donates time to helping others, while also spending money in the economy, is basically the same is someone who literally does nothing with their entire life but wait around slot machines for plays as their life's work, is a piece of shit as a person, and never helped anyone in their life.

Statistically, that's a lot of shit people I guess. But wait, they're probably busy saving lives and helping others.

[MaxPen]

Now that I think about it, a doctor who saves lives, files taxes, and may even contribute to charities or donates time to helping others, while also spending money in the economy, is basically the same is someone who literally does nothing with their entire life but wait around slot machines for plays as their life's work, is a piece of shit as a person, and never helped anyone in their life.

Statistically, that's a lot of shit people I guess. But wait, they're probably busy saving lives and helping others.

Even the low income people still have 15% of their pay taken by Social Security tax. That's federal. Don't forget another 2-3% for Medicare tax. Then almost every time they buy something they get jacked for another 7-10%. That's enough.....RIP

But it's not enough in the eyes of government because you then have fuel taxes, utility taxes, property taxes, insurance taxes, and multitudes of other taxes being paid by everyone. Nobody escapes. Everyone is getting raped daily.

[Don Perignom]

Taxes are the price we pay to live in a civilized society.

[1Hit1der]

I guess, if you mean putting yourself into a chicken coop. The new "art of politics". Ha.

[Don Perignom]

Without government, we'd be overrun by invaders.

[1Hit1der]

We're already invaded by the "psychopaths" that control us. Just work your life away, never ask for anything significant, hope for the "best", whatever that means, and, like the other eVil's, you'll be just fine. Really.

And, perhaps, then no need of other countries, in that way.

[Rounder]

Now that I think about it, a doctor who saves lives, files taxes, and may even contribute to charities or donates time to helping others, while also spending money in the economy, is basically the same is someone who literally does nothing with their entire life but wait around slot machines for plays as their life's work, is a piece of shit as a person, and never helped anyone in their life.

Statistically, that's a lot of shit people I guess. But wait, they're probably busy saving lives and helping others.

Did you read the article? This was due to a one off because of all the covid stimulus money and covid tax credits.

[Rounder]

Without government, we'd be overrun by invaders.

You are clearly making a jab about illegal immigrants, but I believe the general narrative you are talking about is the fact we are not currently living in communism or worse. Illegal immigrants flock here because it is the place to be. It's the place to be in part due to our governmental oversight, laws, and policies.

That said, I have heard illegal immigrants are somehow collecting benefits, getting drivers licenses, even voting. If that is true its freaking bullshit.