Bizarre no-offer situation

[Dan Druff]

Here's a really weird no-offer story which I can't understand:

"Mike" took advantage of a promo at Casino A. He signed up with a new card there, under his own name. He showed a profit during this promo because it was very +EV, but he did put in enough normal play to where he didn't just hit and run. However, Mike did not do enough regular play to justify the amount of free stuff he got via the promo, so predictably his offers dropped to very little -- kinda like $5-$25 freeplay days (several per month) and a few buffets.

None of the above is unusual or surprising. To this day, Mike is still getting the above fail offers, so the takeaway here is that he is not cut off from Casino A, nor was he ever barred or restricted from there in any way. Mike also did not take part in any multi-carding shenanigans or do anything against the rules. He did 100% of the play on his card.


Casino B is part of the same club as Casino A. It is well known to get separate mail from Casino A. Shortly after completing the promo from Casino A, Mike went over to Casino B (for the very first time) and ran play there. At Casino B, he did not play on any offers or promos -- just strictly ran play on his own dime. Mike fired about $35k in coin-in and lost about $3500, running unusually bad. Mike did not set foot in either casino after this, hoping for offers to roll in from Casino B, maybe better than expected because he ran so bad.


To Mike's surprise, 3 full months passed and he got zero offers from Casino B. Like absolutely nothing. Zero freeplay, zero room offers, zero buffets, absolutely nothing. At the same time, Casino A continues sending him offers -- not very good ones, but offers nonetheless.

So it appeared that Mike was no-offered from Casino B, despite his entire body of interaction being playing once and losing at a rate of 10% on $35k coin-in. He had no issues at Casino B with security or anything else. In fact, he didn't even interact with anyone.

Mike contacted Casino B. They told him that his account looked fine, and agreed that it was extremely weird he was getting zero offers after 3 months. Nobody can figure out what happened. They confirmed they could see his play there, and the numbers matched what Mike actually played there -- both coin-in and loss.


What do you think happened?

It would be understandable if BOTH casinos no-offered him after being unhappy with his promo play from Casino A, but how could he be getting continued offers from A (where he did the promo), and none from B (where he played on his own dime, and got his ass beat)?

It's also somewhat perplexing because Mike did play a good deal on his own dime at Casino A anyway, so he wasn't one of those guys who just took promo $ and ran off. At worst, you'd guess they'd just send him shitty offers, which is what's happening. But why is B no-offering him?

[smurgerburger]

If the two properties are in the same market it's possible they were not in fact using separate marketing, either ever or during the relevant period of time. (Sounds like you know otherwise though).

If it's a chain with a centralized marketing department it's possible someone manually screwed with his mail because he got flagged for playing big by their standards in the promo, or something else. Also it's possible they have some algorithm that's intended to reduce duplicative mail by only letting you receive mail from the bigger of two plays at related casinos (again assuming the two casinos are in the same market).

I've experienced and heard many tales of inexplicable inconsistencies with marketing. Idk if the systems are glitchy or if they have some algorithms that only kick in in very specific cases, or if there's some guy in the marketing department that just screws around with offer sometimes to balance the departments budget.

[Dan Druff]

Two more notes, based upon the points raised above.

1) I am fairly certain that these are both separate mail, based upon information I've heard in the recent past myself

2) The two casinos are in different markets


I am about 50-50 right now on "computer error" and "someone in marketing took a dislike to Mike and disabled his offers at Casino B upon seeing him appear there".

[DGenBen]

Two more notes, based upon the points raised above.

1) I am fairly certain that these are both separate mail, based upon information I've heard in the recent past myself

2) The two casinos are in different markets


I am about 50-50 right now on "computer error" and "someone in marketing took a dislike to Mike and disabled his offers at Casino B upon seeing him appear there".

If its a certain casino in the San Diego / LA area that is part of the evil empire this is actually pretty standard. All other sister properties usually run their own mail, & this one does too, but they have a glitchy system & sometimes unintentionally 0 offer new cards.

[Dan Druff]

It's not the evil empire.

[DGenBen]

It's not the evil empire.

Couple other possibilities.

Did he verify casino B has his correct address & no address typos on that address?

If the casino has a web portal for the players card has he tried logging in there to see if there is anything online?

Some properties even if they are owned by the same company don’t do mail anymore & instead display all the offers online or email them (have him confirm they have his correct email too if he provided that)

Also some properties even sister properties require you to swipe your card at a kiosk to activate freeplay so unless you swipe the card you think you have no offers

[Treeshade]

It's not the evil empire.

Dm me the property I will help out “mike” if I know the shop “most likely do”

If I don’t know I won’t give you hypotheticals. If i do know I will give you the answer. Not going anywhere so if I can help I will.

[Treeshade]

It's not the evil empire.

Couple other possibilities.

Did he verify casino B has his correct address & no address typos on that address?

If the casino has a web portal for the players card has he tried logging in there to see if there is anything online?

Some properties even if they are owned by the same company don’t do mail anymore & instead display all the offers online or email them (have him confirm they have his correct email too if he provided that)

Also some properties even sister properties require you to swipe your card at a kiosk to activate freeplay so unless you swipe the card you think you have no offers

To add to this some of those properties that only do online offers have bad interfaces. For example you may need to turn your phone horizontally for the offer page to load. I once waited for a few months looking online for the offers to Load an only figured out they were there because I dropped my phone when I was looking online. Since druff said he called the qproperty this is probably not happening here.

I will add one more thing to the public. Many chains are now doing regional offers where multiple properties are connected with different caveats. There are holes in some of these types of offers that can be very advantageous if you know what to do, are willing to travel, and have the timing down. Most likely way to much work for most people in the game. Personally I like it more complicated it rewards the real APs who can manage to reverse engineer the program.

For example windcreek yawn GG nice try I won

[Dan Druff]

Mike checked with the property. They acknowledge having not sent him any offers. They also acknowledge his play and losses and see the same thing as he has in his records.

So it's not an address issue.

They could not give him an explanation. It's not that they wouldn't. The person at the players club couldn't, as in they had no clue what was wrong. But it was conceded something was wrong.

[mickeycrimm]

What were the payback percentages of the games he was playing at Casino B?

[Dan Druff]

What were the payback percentages of the games he was playing at Casino B?

High 98s

Same as what he played at Casino A

[jdog]

Most likely high demon VP then, I've found some properties don't seem to care for VP players. No matter what you coin in or lose, you are undesirable to them, especially when taking on a promo. I'm guessing Mike got flagged as a possible AP at property A and then property B, having a separate/sweatier marketing team, saw numbers from the other casino and no-mailed him preemptively. Although it wouldn't surprise me to see offers come in later, some places can be unpredictable or slow to act. Could just be incompetence, as DGen said.

35K should be enough to get a host's attention and Mike might consider talking to one. A risky move for an AP, but if after several months the offers are still shit and he's not MCing, he really has nothing lose anyway.

[Rob.Singer]

This isn't difficult: these things happen to all regular players at times, and become an issue only when you play for comps instead of money.

Whatever the reason for being no-offered, if it offends you and you were expecting or hoping to get a room offer, just talk to the right person at that casino. If your play qualifies you for a comped room, great. If for some reason it doesn't, maybe you'll get a reasonable explanation. Then just move on. Maybe you'll get that offer in 6 months and maybe you won't. Either way, don't act entitled. There's plenty of other places around.

[Tasha]

It does seem weird that Mike LOST $3,500 and got NO offers. I lost $2,403 in Seminole Casinos for 2023 and I collected $1,495 in free play, and there was around $500 extra that i wasn't able to pick up due to not knowing the offers existed or not being able to collect them because of work, so I definitely had about $2,000 in free play combined. So there is something HORRIFICALLY wrong if someone lost $3,500 in a Casino and got NO offers.

[jdog]

But if the properties base comps strongly off of theo, even at $35K you only end with a bit more than $400?? You have to be realistic about what to expect from that.

[MisterV]

I lost $2,403 in Seminole Casinos for 2023 and I collected $1,495 in free play, and there was around $500 extra that i wasn't able to pick up due to not knowing the offers existed or not being able to collect them because of work, so I definitely had about $2,000 in free play combined.

Bravo, you are beyond being a mere AP now: you've evolved into a casino magician.

Time for you to leave this place and join your like-minded compadres.

[Treeshade]

Typed up a response then I realized Basically you guys are morons so no need to tell you shit about offers. Remember it’s all fraud according to dick dancer



Imagine playing vp for offers in 2024

[1Hit1der]

Hey, Seed, (pun intended) I thought that you were a goner? Ha.

[DGenBen]

Hey, Seed, (pun intended) I thought that you were a goner? Ha.

This forum is like the Hotel California.

You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave

[MaxPen]

Typed up a response then I realized Basically you guys are morons so no need to tell you shit about offers. Remember it’s all fraud according to dick dancer



Imagine playing vp for offers in 2024

That's why starting a thread like this is dumb. Participating with anything of substance is even dumber. I'm not sure why Dan wouldn't just try and talk to someone he knows. By the way Dan, I sent you a notification of what 2 properties it probably is.