Bizarre no-offer situation

[jdog]

I'll agree that it was somewhat pointless to post this without naming the properties. But if you guys have a better explanation than the ones offered then please enlighten us and post something of value. Druff wasn't asking specifically how to exploit these properties, so couldn't that be done in generalities without exposing anything and without trolling? Eh, maybe that is too much to ask here.

SV- has it not occurred to you that some people just might like to play VP, even though there is little money in it, while at the same time pursuing other more lucrative plays?

[Rob.Singer]

If you haven't yet figured what this is about then you haven't been paying attention over the years.

"Mike" is Dan, and Dan somehow feels slighted by a casino not comping him for his play. Once the "slight" hits twenty bucks or so, his persecution phase takes over.

Winning cures all that.

[DGenBen]

I'll agree that it was somewhat pointless to post this without naming the properties. But if you guys have a better explanation than the ones offered then please enlighten us and post something of value. Druff wasn't asking specifically how to exploit these properties, so couldn't that be done in generalities without exposing anything and without trolling? Eh, maybe that is too much to ask here.

SV- has it not occurred to you that some people just might like to play VP, even though there is little money in it, while at the same time pursuing other more lucrative plays?

I guess to try to answer Dans original question, most properties don’t give good offers for new cards on high payback VP anymore.

Some properties with the same owner but different markets might handle it differently.

Not that I’m an expert on getting no mailed, but if “Mike” was no mailed, there is (not always) but usually a code in the system that the players card reps could see & then indicate subtly or not so subtly thst the card is no mailed.

So the most likely explanation is that property 1 gave offers for VP & property 2 didn’t just as their normal course of business.

Also possible that the company only considers it a new card at certain locations & since you already played at one they didn’t consider the second location a new card.

[DGenBen]

By the way I like SeedValue.

When he wants to troll he can be as effective as the master troll Rob Singer, but he does provide some insightful information too.

I wonder who would win in a cock fight?

[MisterV]

I wonder who would win in a cock fight?

Do you mean "Whose is longer?"

To hear those two birds talk about themselves...the sky's the limit.

[1Hit1der]

I wonder who would win in a cock fight?

Do you mean "Whose is longer?"

To hear those two birds talk about themselves...the sky's the limit.

I'm sure that there's no offer (no on or off her) but, there's nothing bizarre about it. Ha.


1Hit1der
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[Treeshade]

I'll agree that it was somewhat pointless to post this without naming the properties. But if you guys have a better explanation than the ones offered then please enlighten us and post something of value. Druff wasn't asking specifically how to exploit these properties, so couldn't that be done in generalities without exposing anything and without trolling? Eh, maybe that is too much to ask here.

SV- has it not occurred to you that some people just might like to play VP, even though there is little money in it, while at the same time pursuing other more lucrative plays?

Yes most video poker players are gambling addicts that justify playing their 1 percent edge or less for hours and hours sometimes having a losing year. For the record I’ve never had one losing year because the edges I exploit are far above 1 percent and are repeatable.

Of course there are miss set VP machines from time to time that I have played. But in reality those machines still don’t give the return I’m exploiting. I’m NOT looking for enjoyment of a game I’m looking to win the most money utilizing the least amount of time. My opportunity cost is always something I calculate.

However if one has no idea of the other opportunities available to them I can understand playing VP. In my opinion if you’re sharp enough you should be able to figure out better opportunities in 2024 then VP. It’s doubtful the machine he is playing is at advantage off the top since he said it was 98 percent. Perhaps with a promotion and mail it would be. “ In theory “ but he variance of VP in the short run is brutal.

I also understand 99.9 percent of the player tracking systems in the country. I probably spent more hours on that then anyone outside of the people who developed them. So I probably have the answer for “Mike” , and I could care less about his VP play if he had one. It’s not worth my time or anyone on my teams time most likely. Mike or anyone canHave all the VP plays

[Treeshade]

I'll agree that it was somewhat pointless to post this without naming the properties. But if you guys have a better explanation than the ones offered then please enlighten us and post something of value. Druff wasn't asking specifically how to exploit these properties, so couldn't that be done in generalities without exposing anything and without trolling? Eh, maybe that is too much to ask here.

SV- has it not occurred to you that some people just might like to play VP, even though there is little money in it, while at the same time pursuing other more lucrative plays?

I guess to try to answer Dans original question, most properties don’t give good offers for new cards on high payback VP anymore.

Some properties with the same owner but different markets might handle it differently.

Not that I’m an expert on getting no mailed, but if “Mike” was no mailed, there is (not always) but usually a code in the system that the players card reps could see & then indicate subtly or not so subtly thst the card is no mailed.

So the most likely explanation is that property 1 gave offers for VP & property 2 didn’t just as their normal course of business.

Also possible that the company only considers it a new card at certain locations & since you already played at one they didn’t consider the second location a new card.

I will add that if this card was done in the past got mail, it’s possible to be no mailed for future your pin will work and everything. When you come back you lose and get nothing. But I don’t think this is the case here.

[Treeshade]

I'll agree that it was somewhat pointless to post this without naming the properties. But if you guys have a better explanation than the ones offered then please enlighten us and post something of value. Druff wasn't asking specifically how to exploit these properties, so couldn't that be done in generalities without exposing anything and without trolling? Eh, maybe that is too much to ask here.

SV- has it not occurred to you that some people just might like to play VP, even though there is little money in it, while at the same time pursuing other more lucrative plays?

Yes most video poker players are gambling addicts that justify playing their 1 percent edge or less for hours and hours sometimes having a losing year. For the record I’ve never had one losing year because the edges I exploit are far above 1 percent and are repeatable.

Of course there are miss set VP machines from time to time that I have played. But in reality those machines still don’t give the return I’m exploiting. I’m NOT looking for enjoyment of a game I’m looking to win the most money utilizing the least amount of time. My opportunity cost is always something I calculate.

However if one has no idea of the other opportunities available to them I can understand playing VP. In my opinion if you’re sharp enough you should be able to figure out better opportunities in 2024 then VP. It’s doubtful the machine he is playing is at advantage off the top since he said it was 98 percent. Perhaps with a promotion and mail it would be. “ In theory “ but he variance of VP in the short run is brutal.

I also understand 99.9 percent of the player tracking systems in the country. I probably spent more hours on that then anyone outside of the people who developed them. So I probably have the answer for “Mike” , and I could care less about his VP play if he had one. It’s not worth my time or anyone on my teams time most likely. Mike or anyone canHave all the VP plays

And exploiting player track systems “legal” goes far beyond just running some coin in. There a many things involving the ticket in ticket out system, timing , lags in older machines, using two or three cards at once, understand something called velocity of loss, blending, I can go on and on

[Treeshade]

I'll agree that it was somewhat pointless to post this without naming the properties. But if you guys have a better explanation than the ones offered then please enlighten us and post something of value. Druff wasn't asking specifically how to exploit these properties, so couldn't that be done in generalities without exposing anything and without trolling? Eh, maybe that is too much to ask here.

SV- has it not occurred to you that some people just might like to play VP, even though there is little money in it, while at the same time pursuing other more lucrative plays?

Yes most video poker players are gambling addicts that justify playing their 1 percent edge or less for hours and hours sometimes having a losing year. For the record I’ve never had one losing year because the edges I exploit are far above 1 percent and are repeatable.

Of course there are miss set VP machines from time to time that I have played. But in reality those machines still don’t give the return I’m exploiting. I’m NOT looking for enjoyment of a game I’m looking to win the most money utilizing the least amount of time. My opportunity cost is always something I calculate.

However if one has no idea of the other opportunities available to them I can understand playing VP. In my opinion if you’re sharp enough you should be able to figure out better opportunities in 2024 then VP. It’s doubtful the machine he is playing is at advantage off the top since he said it was 98 percent. Perhaps with a promotion and mail it would be. “ In theory “ but he variance of VP in the short run is brutal.

I also understand 99.9 percent of the player tracking systems in the country. I probably spent more hours on that then anyone outside of the people who developed them. So I probably have the answer for “Mike” , and I could care less about his VP play if he had one. It’s not worth my time or anyone on my teams time most likely. Mike or anyone canHave all the VP plays

And exploiting player track systems “legal” goes far beyond just running some coin in. There a many things involving the ticket in ticket out system, timing , lags in older machines, using two or three cards at once, understand something called velocity of loss, blending, I can go on and on

Outside of The DU bug that rob exploited, VP is just not that useful in 2024. Trust me you will see what I’m talking about soon if you have not already.

[Treeshade]

Yeah I’m not gone yet my dicks to big to go so fast.

[MisterV]

Yeah I’m not gone yet my dicks to big to go so fast.

Oh, just another "I'm leaving, so say nice things about me because you'll never hear from me again" tease.

It worked, too.

Well played.

[jdog]

I’m NOT looking for enjoyment of a game I’m looking to win the most money utilizing the least amount of time. My opportunity cost is always something I calculate.

Of course and in your case, being someone who makes their living from AP activities, you need to make the absolute best use of your time. But there are those of us whose primary income is non-gambling, so we want to enjoy at least some of the time we spend in casinos. Similar goals but different priorities.

[1Hit1der]

Yeah I’m not gone yet my dicks to big to go so fast.

Oh, just another "I'm leaving, so say nice things about me because you'll never hear from me again" tease.

It worked, too.

Well played.

People were doing that over and over even when the many gambling forums were a hopping and a bopping (to the Crocodile Rock). Not the same thing, though, when all that a person talked about was looking up at mirrors to count cards, or, his cock, and the $20,000,000 from multi-carding.

Wouldn't it be nice if the Newell old guys threatened to leave?

[Tasha]

If you haven't yet figured what this is about then you haven't been paying attention over the years.

"Mike" is Dan, and Dan somehow feels slighted by a casino not comping him for his play. Once the "slight" hits twenty bucks or so, his persecution phase takes over.

Winning cures all that.

I also wondered if "Mike," was really Dan, but I didn't want to outright say my suspicions. I decided to do the "Wait till someone else says it," approach.

[1Hit1der]

If you can't outright believe Druff about something like that, then why are you even here?

I mean, that big claims of millions of dollars shouldn't be believed without proof, there has to be small ones that should be thus believed. Otherwise, it would be just a bunch of random input from total strangers, which, in a sense, would be worse than even the anagrams. Ha.

[mickeycrimm]

Here's a really weird no-offer story which I can't understand:

"Mike" took advantage of a promo at Casino A. He signed up with a new card there, under his own name. He showed a profit during this promo because it was very +EV, but he did put in enough normal play to where he didn't just hit and run. However, Mike did not do enough regular play to justify the amount of free stuff he got via the promo, so predictably his offers dropped to very little -- kinda like $5-$25 freeplay days (several per month) and a few buffets.

None of the above is unusual or surprising. To this day, Mike is still getting the above fail offers, so the takeaway here is that he is not cut off from Casino A, nor was he ever barred or restricted from there in any way. Mike also did not take part in any multi-carding shenanigans or do anything against the rules. He did 100% of the play on his card.


Casino B is part of the same club as Casino A. It is well known to get separate mail from Casino A. Shortly after completing the promo from Casino A, Mike went over to Casino B (for the very first time) and ran play there. At Casino B, he did not play on any offers or promos -- just strictly ran play on his own dime. Mike fired about $35k in coin-in and lost about $3500, running unusually bad. Mike did not set foot in either casino after this, hoping for offers to roll in from Casino B, maybe better than expected because he ran so bad.


To Mike's surprise, 3 full months passed and he got zero offers from Casino B. Like absolutely nothing. Zero freeplay, zero room offers, zero buffets, absolutely nothing. At the same time, Casino A continues sending him offers -- not very good ones, but offers nonetheless.

So it appeared that Mike was no-offered from Casino B, despite his entire body of interaction being playing once and losing at a rate of 10% on $35k coin-in. He had no issues at Casino B with security or anything else. In fact, he didn't even interact with anyone.

Mike contacted Casino B. They told him that his account looked fine, and agreed that it was extremely weird he was getting zero offers after 3 months. Nobody can figure out what happened. They confirmed they could see his play there, and the numbers matched what Mike actually played there -- both coin-in and loss.


What do you think happened?

It would be understandable if BOTH casinos no-offered him after being unhappy with his promo play from Casino A, but how could he be getting continued offers from A (where he did the promo), and none from B (where he played on his own dime, and got his ass beat)?

It's also somewhat perplexing because Mike did play a good deal on his own dime at Casino A anyway, so he wasn't one of those guys who just took promo $ and ran off. At worst, you'd guess they'd just send him shitty offers, which is what's happening. But why is B no-offering him?

Running a 40K wager in a few hours is the classic play of attempting to trigger large amounts of freeplay. An amount of freeplay that would easily outrun the upfront theoretical loss of about $500.

If Mike ran extremely bad and dumped $3500 my guess is he was playing double double bonus. But the beauty of this kind of play that has worked well for many in the past is even if you run bad the amount of freeplay still easily outruns the loss.

Most guys are not shooting in the dark on plays like this. They know the track record of the casino's freeplay offers. They know the exact amount of action to run to trigger the freeplay.

Was Mike attempting to trigger large amounts of freeplay?

Did he know the casino's track record on freeplay offers?

[Treeshade]

I’m NOT looking for enjoyment of a game I’m looking to win the most money utilizing the least amount of time. My opportunity cost is always something I calculate.

Of course and in your case, being someone who makes their living from AP activities, you need to make the absolute best use of your time. But there are those of us whose primary income is non-gambling, so we want to enjoy at least some of the time we spend in casinos. Similar goals but different priorities.

People can tell themselves whatever they want to justify gambling on VP. I see it everyday.

[Treeshade]

Yeah I’m not gone yet my dicks to big to go so fast.

Oh, just another "I'm leaving, so say nice things about me because you'll never hear from me again" tease.

It worked, too.

Well played.

Yeah that’s it

I guess you can calculate the day I’m supposed to die because your a lawyer. I’m living my life whatever day that is it is.

[Treeshade]

Yeah I’m not gone yet my dicks to big to go so fast.

Oh, just another "I'm leaving, so say nice things about me because you'll never hear from me again" tease.

It worked, too.

Well played.

People were doing that over and over even when the many gambling forums were a hopping and a bopping (to the Crocodile Rock). Not the same thing, though, when all that a person talked about was looking up at mirrors to count cards, or, his cock, and the $20,000,000 from multi-carding.

Wouldn't it be nice if the Newell old guys threatened to leave?

I made more then 20 Million gambling “not” just MC. I have just over 21m currently but it doesn’t matter. For some reason broke people get upset when you talk about having large sums of money. That’s something I never could figure out. I know Multiple people with more money then me. Some are gamblers but most are business owners. All of them are self made, and Just out work or do more then the average person. Mostly it’s having discipline doing the same shit better then you did the day before. Staying Focused setting goals, and holding yourself accountable to those goals.
Shit people just can’t do