Question for Rob Singer

[Alan Mendelson]

Short answer, Alan: It appears to me that Rob is making things up as he goes along in order to fit his purposes at that time. He'd be a good politician.

thank you Vegas Vic. I have one more "inconsistency" that I am going to raise -- but not until Rob responds to what I just posted above. This "inconsistency" will need some explaining, because Rob said it in one of the videos of his special plays. The "numbers" behind the special play just don't add up to what he says his "money management" strategy is.

As I look back on this discussion, including Rob's criticism of me for not automatically leaving after hitting big wins, it made me re-visit the discussion called "Following Your Rules."

In that discussion, I pointed out to Rob, how in his book Rambling and Gambling in Nevada he wrote about how he hit back-to-back royals. I asked him why he didn't leave the casino after hitting the first royal, which is what his "discipline" says to do. Here is how Rob responded:

Had you read in either the introduction or first chapter, you'd have seen where I was on a month long trip around Nevada, and I would not be playing my strategy or play for profit on any of it because the sole purpose was to gather information to write the book. I simply went to as many of the state's casinos as I could fit in, and I played whenever I chose to without any goals.

Curiously, Rob is allowed to decide when he can play "without any goals" but the rest of us can't. Curiously, he is allowed to play without his strategy and he doesn't have to play for profit, but the rest of us can't.

Why is it that I can't take the winnings from a $1 royal flush and try to use those winnings to hit bigger payoffs at a $5 game? Is it only because Rob says I can't? But Rob is allowed to ramble and gamble through Nevada and totally disregard his own preachings.

[slingshot]

He's remembering the first years and how he lost and perhaps he wants to just make sure you don't weaken and start a downward trend I also feel these early years fired an iron resolution and once he had decided what his plan was, there was no turning back-since you asked. I must also point out that since this was probably out of reach for the average player, he developed the other strategies. Here's the thing: he developed a strategy, funded the bankroll, and played the strategy. How can you know the strategy works unless you play and find either failure or victory? There's one final point: How WE can learn from all he's been through. That's all I'm trying to do. Actually, I'm enjoying the questions and answers here because both sides bring up good points -the main one DOING what you say you're gonna do. Which brings up a question: is money won/ lost more important over the long run than discipline?

[arcimede$]

Alan, I've been giving you the answer all along. Singer is a pathological liar. No one should believe anything he says.

[bigfoot66]

hmmm...very interesting

[Vegas Vic]

In that discussion, I pointed out to Rob, how in his book Rambling and Gambling in Nevada he wrote about how he hit back-to-back royals. I asked him why he didn't leave the casino after hitting the first royal, which is what his "discipline" says to do. Here is how Rob responded:

Quote Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
Had you read in either the introduction or first chapter, you'd have seen where I was on a month long trip around Nevada, and I would not be playing my strategy or play for profit on any of it because the sole purpose was to gather information to write the book. I simply went to as many of the state's casinos as I could fit in, and I played whenever I chose to without any goals.

Out of curiosity for this book, my search came up with a book review:

http://www.jetcafe.org/npc/reviews/g...ru_nevada.html

Interesting to say the least.

[Rob.Singer]

I have only read the posts on this page and in this thread since I'm a bit limited for time Alan. You see, since casinos and gaming forums are no longer the drivers in my life--and as poor arci will attest to, it's SURE BETTER being able to get out,with someone important to you and enjoy life instead of making up how sitting at machines gives old life meaning--there's times when I just cannot put this stuff first. I'll respond the best way possible then it's back to real living.

Vic, if you had followed my website and Gaming Today articles for at least 8 years, you'd have seen the exact same explanations and reported cumulative session won/loss numbers as is here. If you don't understand it, then I think quahaug has some words for you that might make more sense.

Alan, I'm going to assume you really have never understood what I explained to you in the past, and that, like you're refusal to go to Casa Grande with me this past year--and similar to Frank's saying he wanted to understand my play strategy but then surprisingly refusing to see it in-action on actual casino machines--you're only serving up baseless criticisms now because you're still off kilter some after handing the casinos back all that money won as a result of not being able to do as you said you were going to do.

I think the issues you ask about have to do with how could I possibly just stop playing after a loss of five figures (the amount isn't important), you somehow think that a $2500 win goal means only winning $2500....even though you said you understand how some wins are in fact higher--and you probably read over the part about how my average winning session was thousands higher than the average losing session, and that you completely disregard how I said that I ALWAYS did what I said I would do when playing my strategy--win, lose, or draw.

Whenever I experienced my few losing five figure losses, I lived with it. Why? Because SOME had to be expected over hundreds of sessions, just as even more larger winning sessions had already come and were expected still to come. As my friend arci says, "the math doesn't lie" and because I already know you're not afraid to meet with me like arci has always been (as he cowardly snuck out the back escapee door always at the last minute) I'd like to explain this in more detail with you later this year.

That's the reason I stopped playing whether I won or lost?: the discipline to do ONLY what my strategy said to do, and no more. It's the reason I didn't take pot shots or run to the cash machines or cashier's cage to get more money. Discipline....the one trait every casino does not want or expect their gamblers to possess, and they do everything within their means to break the gambler down. I believe between you and arci, you have experienced every usable trick.

I can't retrace when the big royals or hits came in relation to the big wins, but that was easily followable during the days on my site or in my articles. I know how "unimaginable".it might be, even to a solid $5 player like yourself, to lose $35000 on a trip, but just as AP's train themselves that their royals are nothing more than just another hand and are simply all in a day's work, my wins and losses were just that also. Nothing more/nothing less. Asking how many sessions it took to "recoup" a big loss is irrelevant. Why? These scenarios could have resulted: I could have already been further than $35000 ahead for the year prior to the loss; I could have been less than $35000 ahead for the year prior to the loss; I could have been already behind for the year prior to the loss; or, in conjunction with this, that loss could have wiped out my entire gaming bankroll, meaning I would have quit playing professsionally for good and had instantly become the regular-Joe recreational player I am today...fully knowing we'd be taking from our 401k's to live this retirement lifestyle instead of it being paid for mainly from casino profits. In any case, I was prepared for EVERY case, because that's what strategy discipline is all about. Preparation, Preparation, Preparation....driven solely by discipline.

[Rob.Singer]

Out of curiosity for this book, my search came up with a book review:

http://www.jetcafe.org/npc/reviews/g...ru_nevada.html

Interesting to say the least.

I remember this without going back to read it. One of his main criticisms is the "arithmetic didn't jive". Well, in addition to my remembering him not specifying where or what that was, my editor and I went back over the book and wrote down every possible numbers situation that I wrote about. We found no errors or misleading facts. I wrote this reviewer with that info and never heard back, nor did he update his review.

The other part was about my "confusing" advantage play episodes, or however he put it. I very clearly identify that since this was an exploration type of trip, where discussions and distractions were more important than profitability--and I only brought I think $5000--I'd only try to play my best rendition of optimal play strategy as I sat at machines. Whether I won or lost money by the end of the 30 days was inconsequential....as was my method of play. WHERE I went/visited, which included a number of non-gambling adventures, was the main thrust of the book.

[Alan Mendelson]

Rob worte: "Asking how many sessions it took to "recoup" a big loss is irrelevant. Why? These scenarios could have resulted: I could have already been further than $35000 ahead for the year prior to the loss; I could have been less than $35000 ahead for the year prior to the loss; I could have been already behind for the year prior to the loss; or, in conjunction with this, that loss could have wiped out my entire gaming bankroll, meaning I would have quit playing professsionally for good and had instantly become the regular-Joe recreational player I am today...fully knowing we'd be taking from our 401k's to live this retirement lifestyle instead of it being paid for mainly from casino profits. In any case, I was prepared for EVERY case, because that's what strategy discipline is all about. Preparation, Preparation, Preparation....driven solely by discipline."

Sorry, Rob, but there is absolutely no discipline shown when you:

a. give back a year's profit, or much of a year's profit in one session;
b. or, be willing to let your entire gaming bankroll to get wiped out.

We have different values and definitions. I suggest that you not criticize others for how they play when you can come on a public forum and say that a $35,000 session loss means nothing to you. It's just like Bob Dancer saying he won a car that cost him so many thousands and thousands of dollars of video poker losses.

In the future, I would suggest you just stick with your report of winning a million dollars over ten years. That is more believable than saying you sat there willingly losing five figures per session. If you stuck with this, that you had cumulative small wins of $2500 per session at the $10/coin game, it is not only realistic but more easy to swallow.

And since you did respond to what I wrote, let me ask you one more question. This is a question only, and I am not criticizing you in any way. But I have to know:

In Special Play #13 when you broke up three queens to hold three to the royal, and you got the royal on a $25 machine winning $100K, how much were you behind? For others who are not familiar, you said you almost always hold three queens on 8/5 Bonus but in this case you were in such a deep hole you had to try for the royal in order to save yourself. How big was the hole at that time? (See the video here: http://alanbestbuys.com/id194.html )

[slingshot]

I tried meeting Rob in Shreveport and my cell phone, which had never failed-all of a sudden went haywire when I tried to answer his call and I left the @#*!$% number he gave me at the house. I had left my wife at the penny machines enjoying herself and when I came back early, she was wanting to know what happened. Months of waiting gone down the drain. Why would you not take the opportunity at the machines?

[Alan Mendelson]

Slingshot, what "opportunity" are you talking about?? If you are referring to Rob's comment "like you're refusal to go to Casa Grande with me this past year" I have no idea what that is?

Unlike most of you, I have met and interviewed Rob -- and did it twice. I've also spoken with him on the phone over multiple occasions.

I suspect Casa Grande is where Rob keeps the records from the machine he "tested" but we have subsequently established that these records are print outs and not data that can actually be analyzed. Rob has confirmed that the data is not "computer ready" and has to be inputted into a computer and even if that was done, we still don't know enough about Rob's methodology for his test of "random" and "fifth card flipovers" to very if his methodology and results can tell us anything.

[slingshot]

I thought he had asked to watch him play his method. Sorry.

[Alan Mendelson]

I thought he had asked to watch him play his method. Sorry.

From my understanding, in order to watch Rob play, you have to make a wager of some sort about his play or your challenge to his play. This was the subject of several heated "discussions" on this Forum some time ago because of the various demands/conditions that were part of the wager.

[arcimede$]

I suspect Casa Grande is where Rob keeps the records from the machine he "tested" but we have subsequently established that these records are print outs and not data that can actually be analyzed. Rob has confirmed that the data is not "computer ready" and has to be inputted into a computer and even if that was done, we still don't know enough about Rob's methodology for his test of "random" and "fifth card flipovers" to very if his methodology and results can tell us anything.

Yes, isn't it strange that nothing Singer has ever claimed can be verified. Well, not strange if one has seen the plethora of lies he spews. People with a the ability to use logic understand what it means.

There's an old saying of the form ..."fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me". The fact is anyone who still believes a word out of Singer's mouth has already been fooled many times.

[Rob.Singer]

Slingshot, what "opportunity" are you talking about?? If you are referring to Rob's comment "like you're refusal to go to Casa Grande with me this past year" I have no idea what that is?

Unlike most of you, I have met and interviewed Rob -- and did it twice. I've also spoken with him on the phone over multiple occasions.

I suspect Casa Grande is where Rob keeps the records from the machine he "tested" but we have subsequently established that these records are print outs and not data that can actually be analyzed. Rob has confirmed that the data is not "computer ready" and has to be inputted into a computer and even if that was done, we still don't know enough about Rob's methodology for his test of "random" and "fifth card flipovers" to very if his methodology and results can tell us anything.

Alan, why do you keep making up scenarios when you have no idea what you're talking about? Plus, in a very nice way, you have a layer of thickness about you that peeps out, eventually, to everyone.

I've told you that Casa Grande, Az. is the town south of Phx. where I've stored my ZR-1 for when my grandson graduates college in about 15 years, where a few other heirlooms are kept, and where my old house computers, some books, and everything having to do with my professional vp-playing days--including the computer printouts from the machine I tested--are. Did you read it this time?

What makes you say that the computer printouts "are not computer ready"....what does that even mean? How many times have I told you that each task I programmed into the test equipment has a summary that EVEN YOU would understand when it identifies something such as the number of fifth card flipover opportunities vs. the number of times the discard's twin showed up on the draw. They are all very clear, easy to read, and they would drive a liar like arci so crazy that he'd be forced into making up a scenario that had me creating fake printouts just for this purpose!

The "opportunity" sling is referring to is when I implored Frank to allow me to show him how my strategy did indeed work, at real machines, but he always refused....instead, just as arci has done, prefer to not witness anything or see any proof, in order to be able to stay safely behind the computer keyboard where he could blindly keep criticizing, and, in arci's case, to keep lying just so he'd have SOMETHING to do when stuck in the house. Of course, thru his own pathological faults, now he has no CHOICE but to live a boring existence, basically alone and unable to share anything with anyone any longer in payment & punishment for past selfish behavior. Ain't it great watching what comes around go around?

[Rob.Singer]

From my understanding, in order to watch Rob play, you have to make a wager of some sort about his play or your challenge to his play. This was the subject of several heated "discussions" on this Forum some time ago because of the various demands/conditions that were part of the wager.

Not the case with Frank. He was decent about it so there was no reason to make him pay. He never lied about it like the wizard, lied about me like Fezzik and Dancer, or did both like arci. All he did was criticize without any knowledge.

[Alan Mendelson]

Rob your summaries cannot be tested because they are summaries. While I dispute your assertion that the machines are not random I see value in your special plays and money management. Your insults about addiction make me sick.

[arcimede$]

The "opportunity" sling is referring to is when I implored Frank to allow me to show him how my strategy did indeed work, at real machines, but he always refused....instead, just as arci has done, prefer to not witness anything or see any proof,

That anyone would make such a ridiculous claim is, once again, evidence of a pathological liar. Anyone with any knowledge of math knows that a single session is useless in determining the validity of a system. The reason intelligent people turn down this "opportunity" is because they understand this simple truth. However, note how Singer tries to imply that somehow watching a single session of his play is actually meaningful. Another lie.

in order to be able to stay safely behind the computer keyboard where he could blindly keep criticizing, and, in arci's case, to keep lying just so he'd have SOMETHING to do when stuck in the house. Of course, thru his own pathological faults, now he has no CHOICE but to live a boring existence, basically alone and unable to share anything with anyone any longer in payment & punishment for past selfish behavior. Ain't it great watching what comes around go around?

I detect a lot of projection in this comment. It makes me wonder if Singer's entire claims of traveling aren't just another fantasy and the reality is he is cooped up in Pahrump in his trailer with only enough money to play penny/nickel VP.

[Rob.Singer]

Rob your summaries cannot be tested because they are summaries. While I dispute your assertion that the machines are not random I see value in your special plays and money management. Your insults about addiction make me sick.

What's meant by "they can't be tested"? The only point of my testing the machine was for info. No one would ever be able to "test" any info, whether it is on computer printouts, cd, or electronic file. I have what I have from it, the results are in print from VERY reliable equipment, I completely satisfied my suspicions that the machines were not totally random, and upon offering such proof to the NGC it was categorically dismissed because they didn't want that particular can of worms opened. So be it. Players who require the games to be 100% random due to their belief in how the math should somehow eventually work for them, shall remain safe, and they can and will continue to pour their life savings into the machines chasing that tiny profit residing at the end of the long term rainbow. All others (because I am retired) won't really care what gives, because they only play out of addiction.

I know my comments about gambling addiction make you sick. That's good, because in the future as you actually experience what I've been saying about how you did what you did recently over and over again--and you try to justify it when you really do know better, even though the thrills you get from live poker and video poker action remain in complete control over every aspect of your life--someday my tough words of rude-awakening will finally make sense. Someday, but not today. Let's hope it's not too late by then, and that your life hasn't completely passed you by. Ask arci about that one.

[Rob.Singer]

That anyone would make such a ridiculous claim is, once again, evidence of a pathological liar. Anyone with any knowledge of math knows that a single session is useless in determining the validity of a system. The reason intelligent people turn down this "opportunity" is because they understand this simple truth. However, note how Singer tries to imply that somehow watching a single session of his play is actually meaningful. Another lie.



I detect a lot of projection in this comment. It makes me wonder if Singer's entire claims of traveling aren't just another fantasy and the reality is he is cooped up in Pahrump in his trailer with only enough money to play penny/nickel VP.

What else are you left with to say arci. Too much truth always drives someone to conjure up the worst. Next we'll hear how my wife's blind and in a wheelchair....or even "he ain't got no wife"!

In the meantime, enjoy your lonely trip around the golf course of course, I'm still waiting on how you're going to respond to the IRS when they come after you for either falsifying your Schedule A's, or what all these forum people you believe you've impressed over the years with conflicting reports of winning, will say once they hear how you've been lying thru your teeth (the ones you have left, I mean--if all those medical deductions for dental work ate correct, that is ). The whistle has been blown, my friend.

[Rob.Singer]

Rob worte: "Asking how many sessions it took to "recoup" a big loss is irrelevant. Why? These scenarios could have resulted: I could have already been further than $35000 ahead for the year prior to the loss; I could have been less than $35000 ahead for the year prior to the loss; I could have been already behind for the year prior to the loss; or, in conjunction with this, that loss could have wiped out my entire gaming bankroll, meaning I would have quit playing professsionally for good and had instantly become the regular-Joe recreational player I am today...fully knowing we'd be taking from our 401k's to live this retirement lifestyle instead of it being paid for mainly from casino profits. In any case, I was prepared for EVERY case, because that's what strategy discipline is all about. Preparation, Preparation, Preparation....driven solely by discipline."

Sorry, Rob, but there is absolutely no discipline shown when you:

a. give back a year's profit, or much of a year's profit in one session;
b. or, be willing to let your entire gaming bankroll to get wiped out.

We have different values and definitions. I suggest that you not criticize others for how they play when you can come on a public forum and say that a $35,000 session loss means nothing to you. It's just like Bob Dancer saying he won a car that cost him so many thousands and thousands of dollars of video poker losses.

In the future, I would suggest you just stick with your report of winning a million dollars over ten years. That is more believable than saying you sat there willingly losing five figures per session. If you stuck with this, that you had cumulative small wins of $2500 per session at the $10/coin game, it is not only realistic but more easy to swallow.

And since you did respond to what I wrote, let me ask you one more question. This is a question only, and I am not criticizing you in any way. But I have to know:

In Special Play #13 when you broke up three queens to hold three to the royal, and you got the royal on a $25 machine winning $100K, how much were you behind? For others who are not familiar, you said you almost always hold three queens on 8/5 Bonus but in this case you were in such a deep hole you had to try for the royal in order to save yourself. How big was the hole at that time? (See the video here: http://alanbestbuys.com/id194.html )

I'm sorry, I didn't see the question when I skimmed over the thread updates.

I ended up with slightly over $94000 in profit for the session after the royal, so my position was around $6k in the hole at that moment.