I would guess he got probation for being a cooperating witness.Originally Posted by jdog
The murder issue is separate from what redietz was suggesting though. If you murder all the witnesses to a crime and they don't get you on the murder, you can get away with anything.
In fact without bothering to dig into the story I'd say the fact that they had the guy killed suggests they were facing serious charges for the gaming offense.
Good for APs for sure but almost positive the LV experience is far below what it'd be mobbed up.Originally Posted by MisterV
Look at how homogenous the food court situation is. Even if mob cheated the odds would likely be better overall.
It is official. Redietz will never be on Dan Druff's podcast. "too much integrity"
Correct, and correct.Originally Posted by redietzGarnabby, the person who told me this was a casino administrator who worked with an administrator of the property involved. I think they all understood likely distributions of outcomes.Originally Posted by GarnabbyThat how statistics works. There's even a name for that mathematical phenomenon. Ha.Originally Posted by redietz
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Why do you insist on commenting as if you know what you're talking about? Oh right, you're The Theory of Everything dude. Carry on.
No mathematician told you any such thing.
Every one /everyone knows it all; yet, no thing /nothing is truly known by any one /anyone. Similarly, the suckers think that they win, but, the house always wins, unless to hand out an even worse beating.
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Garnabby + OppsIdidItAgain + ThomasClines (or TomasHClines) + The Grim Reaper + LMR + OneHitWonder (or 1HitWonder, 1Hit1der) + Bill Yung ---> GOTTLOB1, or GOTTLOB = Praise to God!
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There is capable meaning you have everything lined up perfect. Or capable in purely a technical sense. Many many 10s of thousands could do it technically. The time required would vary immensely by skill level.Originally Posted by redietz
Having all the other situations lined up? Quite rare.
Modern games would likely be considerably different and more complicated. It is all locked down in code with cryptographic keys I'm sure.
As far as VP, you could just as well gaff it in all sorts of ways. Since you are detecting a royal + coinin and presumably it displays something else.. then you could trim %s off the lesser payouts. People don't even keep track of that stuff. Royals could be caught by some bad ass autist. Trim the straight, flush, and boat .. no one logs all that.
It is official. Redietz will never be on Dan Druff's podcast. "too much integrity"
Quite possibly. Since Lemons waited so long to come forward, maybe the statute of limitations had expired on any fraud (or other) charges.Originally Posted by smurgerburger
I actually met a guy in AC who was doing just that, logging absolutely everything. He had been doing it for years.Originally Posted by accountinquestion
I couldn't possibly say no to that question with such a lack of information. But if there is it's probably extremely rare.Originally Posted by jdog
In the United States the knowledge of the paybacks of slot machines is proprietary information so most casinos don't publish anything about it-there are exceptions.
But think about a slot machine sitting out on the casino floor. What's the payback? 85%, 90%, 95%? Why would the casino illegally gaff a game? If they don't want the public to get a 95% return they can legally put a 90% chip in the game. If they don't want a 90% return they can legally put an 85% chip in it. They would be stupid to illegally gaff the game when they can cut the payback legally.
"More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ
As Mickey suggests the financial incentives do not necessarily favor rigging, even assuming there were zero risk. If they did all casinos would at least set all slots to the worst legally allowable RTP, which they don't even do in LV strip casinos (CET in LV is very close to doing this, but Venetian for example does not, or didn't last time I was there.)
According to FraudJ they're still breaking bonesOriginally Posted by MisterV
FraudJ's word is worth less than the prop cash in Singer's safe...RIP
I agree with what you guys are saying about machines in general. Why illegally modify a machine to lower RTP? But a VP machine is not a slot in critical ways. The main difference is RTP is advertised, and it attracts a different type of player. We already know casinos dislike VP because of it's high RTP and low volatility variants. But most operators understand they must have some around to keep certain players. Since they can't lower the advertised RTP too much or risk losing VP enthusiasts, and they're stuck with keeping some of these games, I think it would be attractive for them to gaff the payback.
Definitely riskier in a state like Nevada but AFAIK Indian casinos essentially regulate themselves. So what would be the downside for them? Of course it would be bad press if something got out, but who's actually going to investigate and report it? I would think an Indian gaming regulator would just be more interested in their cut.
And the idea it would be harder to do in modern times may be naive. It might be even easier to hide something like this considering games run on exponentially more lines of code than they used to.
I'm not against the idea, I was just responding to someone throwing around insinuations without having thought through the topic sufficiently.Originally Posted by jdog
If you are talking about me: I did not know Volk's story, but on the topic in general you can see I have thought through and arrived at my own conclusions already.Originally Posted by smurgerburger
I was just curious as to Mickey's opinion on the matter because I know he spends just as much time in Indian casinos as anybody.
I was talking about redietz. He's posted about this before.Originally Posted by jdogIf you are talking about me: I did not know Volk's story, but on the topic in general you can see I have thought through and arrived at my own conclusions already.Originally Posted by smurgerburger
I was just curious as to Mickey's opinion on the matter because I know he spends just as much time in Indian casinos as anybody.
Back in the 80's there wasn't much known about video poker paybacks. Video poker software had not been invented yet. In Volk's time there was Jacks or Better and Deuces Wild. Bonus Poker didn't come out until the early 90's. Tamper proof seals were not used when placing chips in machines.
Gaming kept improving regulations. All eproms that go in the machines must be delivered to Nevada Gaming Control Board by the manufacturers. The Nevada lab runs chi-squared and correlation tests to test the randomness of the chips. An approved chip has to be installed with a tamper proof seal and a Gaming Agent must witness it.
There are state auditors in every casino. They don't trust the casinos to count correctly. The auditors are pouring over the coin-in/coin-out numbers everyday.
How much does the average video poker player know about payback? For oblivious players you could just put in 8/5 Jacks instead of 9/6 Jacks, a 2% difference.
It would be the knowledgeable players that the house would be looking to fool. But the knowledgeable players are not going to be fooled for long just like poker players and the ultimate bet cheating. There is something wrong if nobody is winning.
I know of a lot of cases where casinos put on promotions that didn't last as long as they said it would. They cancelled when they seen they were getting shellacked. VP pros would also cancel if they seen they were all getting shellacked.
If a poll were taken of video poker pros as to whether they think they've been cheated at any time I don't think there would be many that would say yes.
"More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
According to the theory of cognitive dissonance, there shouldn't be. I heartily recommend, as a starting point, Leon Festinger's Theory of Cognitive Dissonance.
https://books.google.com/books/about...d=voeQ-8CASacC
My life advice is, if you'd prefer to believe A, and A and B appear to be a toss-up, best to believe B.
I found this interview about American Coin on GWAE. They were gaffing progressives which were big in Las Vegas in those days. All the bars had them.
Players from those days told me you could find a good number to play everyday because the progressives were everywhere.
The teams were just forming in the late 80's. But knowing the high numbers they played, and after listening to this interview, I think they weren't affected much by the gaffing.
"More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ
Like "racism" the term "cognitive dissonance" is thrown around by those with narcississtic personality disorder to denigrate those with different views. In his mind, the narcissist believes he is right in every argument, those with different views are inferior.Originally Posted by redietzOriginally Posted by mickeycrimm
According to the theory of cognitive dissonance, there shouldn't be. I heartily recommend, as a starting point, Leon Festinger's Theory of Cognitive Dissonance.
https://books.google.com/books/about...d=voeQ-8CASacC
My life advice is, if you'd prefer to believe A, and A and B appear to be a toss-up, best to believe B.
The narcissist denigrates others thinking it makes the narcissist look superior. When in actuality the narcissist is exposing himself as a pitiful pathetic figure.
"More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ
You are right. Evidence has nothing to do with it. Only what you believe is correct. You're a fucking brain surgeon. Not!Originally Posted by redietzOriginally Posted by mickeycrimm
According to the theory of cognitive dissonance, there shouldn't be. I heartily recommend, as a starting point, Leon Festinger's Theory of Cognitive Dissonance.
https://books.google.com/books/about...d=voeQ-8CASacC
My life advice is, if you'd prefer to believe A, and A and B appear to be a toss-up, best to believe B.
"More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ
I'm thinking more specifically about VP coding modifications that could be done outside of Nevada.
But how many VP pros would be in places like the larger Chickasaw properties? The simple answer is probably not many, because we both know there are few high demom VP games available. All I can say is I've played more VP at WinStar than I've probably played anywhere and I've never hit a Royal, nor have I ever witnessed a Royal hit above a 25c denom. Of course this doesn't mean anything, it's not like I'm there every weekend. But it is starting to make me wonder what the chances are that the casino is not playing fair...Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
I holed up at Winstar and played their $1 9/6 Jacks and Deuces Wild progressives, .5% meters, in the London Bar and the Rome Bar a few times. They used to comp me the rooms there. I considered it a little vacation. But they took it all out.Originally Posted by jdogI'm thinking more specifically about VP coding modifications that could be done outside of Nevada.
But how many VP pros would be in places like the larger Chickasaw properties? The simple answer is probably not many, because we both know there are few high demom VP games available. All I can say is I've played more VP at WinStar than I've probably played anywhere and I've never hit a Royal, nor have I ever witnessed a Royal hit above a 25c denom. Of course this doesn't mean anything, it's not like I'm there every weekend. But it is starting to make me wonder what the chances are that the casino is not playing fair...Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
I used to get pissed there anyway. That joint had the worst maintenace of their bartops I've ever seen anywhere. Barstops get a lot of sugary drinks spilled on them so you have to regularly clean them inside and out. Talking to those people about it was like talking to the wall. They never did anything and people wouldn't play, or it vastly slowed them down.
When I would first get there it might take me a dozen machines before I found one that was fully operational.
BTW, I made more money off the Choctaw casinos than any of the others in Oklahoma.
Last edited by mickeycrimm; 03-26-2024 at 06:02 PM.
"More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ
So I was just thinking back to when the last time I had a losing month in the casinos was. I think it was 2006. I know that people don't know how it's done. Axel knows how it's done. Maxpen knows how it's done.
It's been going on for years. Making money is routine. The debate over whether the casinos gaff machines can rage on. But's it the last thing on my mind.
Why would someone that's been showing a consistent profit for 2 and a half decades even think about the machines are gaffed?
"More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ
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