Bill Benter

[jdog]

That joint had the worst maintenace of their bartops I've ever seen anywhere.

And it's still the worst... In fact I don't think their slot attendants do any maintenance besides restarting a machine. If a button needs to be changed they tell you it's their vendor's job but it never gets done. They just limp along until the machine gets replaced by a new one. Never seen any other place operate like that.

So take it you popped a few $1 Royals there?

Why would someone that's been showing a consistent profit for 2 and a half decades even think about the machines are gaffed?

You wouldn't because you're now typically taking plays at what... 5 to 10% advantages or more?? You wouldn't even notice if a certain game was gaffed 1-2%
I was just wondering if anyone had known of or had any suspicions outside of the American Coin debacle.

[Garnabby]

Making money is routine. The debate over whether the casinos gaff machines can rage on. But's it the last thing on my mind.

But, what we'll forever remember is Singer, KJ, and old Red. Ha. You guys weren't nearly so good as they were bad.

[smurgerburger]

That joint had the worst maintenace of their bartops I've ever seen anywhere.

And it's still the worst... In fact I don't think their slot attendants do any maintenance besides restarting a machine. If a button needs to be changed they tell you it's their vendor's job but it never gets done. They just limp along until the machine gets replaced by a new one. Never seen any other place operate like that.

So take it you popped a few $1 Royals there?

Why would someone that's been showing a consistent profit for 2 and a half decades even think about the machines are gaffed?

You wouldn't because you're now typically taking plays at what... 5 to 10% advantages or more?? You wouldn't even notice if a certain game was gaffed 1-2%
I was just wondering if anyone had known of or had any suspicions outside of the American Coin debacle.

One thing that may assuage your concerns a bit is that the bigger the casino, both in terms of revenue streams and management structure, the less anyone in a position to rig the machines has any incentive to do so.

What I mean is the ACC seemingly derived all its earnings from VP, and was owned and operated by the same guy. (This may be simplified, I couldn't tell from the article.)

So in their case, assuming a simple model of how their split works with the bar owners, taking the royals out of a 2% hold game literally doubles their earnings and doubles the value of the company to the owner.

In Chocktaw the profits are distributed through the whole tribe, and management may not even be tribal, and they have many and more valuable sources of earnings than VP.

Also the higher up you are in the corporate structure the more people you have to bring in to implement a rigging scheme, but the lower down you are the less likely you are to have any incentive at all (for example a slot tech if he could acquire the chip might be able to rig it all on his own, but literally has no incentive to. A slot manager might have a very tenuous incentive - better performance from his department - but can't do it on his own without looking extremely suspicious even if he knows how.)

None of this is to say an Indian casino wouldn't do it or isn't doing it, just that the bigger the casino and the more numerous the equity holder the less it resembles the ACC situation.

[jdog]

Well made point smurger. The American Coin owners had exponentially more to gain from reducing the Royal frequency. If they solely leased VP machines with only mid-high 99% RTP games, then they could have potentially more than doubled their profits.

[Rob.Singer]

It's not difficult. There's money involved--and at times big money. The Clintons siphoned off millions from a Haitian disaster fund for God's sake. People all the time have their credit cards compromised after helping out charitable causes. By definition, in the casino business, if there's a will there's a way. Nothing is sacred.

[mickeycrimm]

That joint had the worst maintenace of their bartops I've ever seen anywhere.

And it's still the worst... In fact I don't think their slot attendants do any maintenance besides restarting a machine. If a button needs to be changed they tell you it's their vendor's job but it never gets done. They just limp along until the machine gets replaced by a new one. Never seen any other place operate like that.

So take it you popped a few $1 Royals there?

Why would someone that's been showing a consistent profit for 2 and a half decades even think about the machines are gaffed?

You wouldn't because you're now typically taking plays at what... 5 to 10% advantages or more?? You wouldn't even notice if a certain game was gaffed 1-2%
I was just wondering if anyone had known of or had any suspicions outside of the American Coin debacle.

I didn't hit a royal at Winstar but didn't play that many hands. Royals were hit on those bartops while I was there tho. I had the 50 cent and $1 progs on both the London Bar and the Rome Bar to choose the highest number. I don't think I played even a royal cycle there tho. I got the room comp flowing with just an 11K wager which is about 2200 hands. I didn't play more than a few thousand hands a day.

[mickeycrimm]

The Indian casinos around the country don't have that many video pokers. Penny slots have taken over the world. Some of these casinos with 2000 machines might not have more than 2 dozen video pokers. Commercial casinos are the same way. Not many video pokers compared to slots.

[Garnabby]

It's not difficult. There's money involved--and at times big money. The Clintons siphoned off millions from a Haitian disaster fund for God's sake. People all the time have their credit cards compromised after helping out charitable causes. By definition, in the casino business, if there's a will there's a way. Nothing is sacred.

Trump's no saint, either, Rob. Ha.

Better send him some more money. He's running out, fast.

[Don Perignom]

You wouldn't because you're now typically taking plays at what... 5 to 10% advantages or more?? You wouldn't even notice if a certain game was gaffed 1-2%
I was just wondering if anyone had known of or had any suspicions outside of the American Coin debacle.

I don't dismiss the risks at all. My typical edge at video poker is 1-2%, so rigged games could neuter me or worse. A major incident just occurred recently in Vegas:

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gamb...cannot-be-hit/

In aggregate though, I judge the overall evidence as supportive of fair games.

If operators could rig, prevailing conditions would not be as bad as they are. Better games would be offered as bait.

If operators can rig, why is it only detectable by low-IQ civilians (Durango incident notwithstanding) at forums such as video poker dot com?

[accountinquestion]

In some states there are the lottery based machines that are gray area. I don't remember the details but they are beyond rigged. It is actually laughable. I should go to the bar and film it. Iirc it might not evaluate properly if you break a made hand. It has a double up feature that is so rigged. I'll film it one day... thread worthy

[accountinquestion]

It is truly a rather stupid way to rig it so no royal can hit. Maybe there are constraints on what sort of modification can be done to the existing code. Like they have to modify existing code and can't just add logic and recompile. Like cracking a pirated game. You don't get a nice text editor .. making it crash on detection of a royal would be easiest but so apparent. If.you have source code then just redraw .. anything could readily be done.

[Rob.Singer]

It's not difficult. There's money involved--and at times big money. The Clintons siphoned off millions from a Haitian disaster fund for God's sake. People all the time have their credit cards compromised after helping out charitable causes. By definition, in the casino business, if there's a will there's a way. Nothing is sacred.

Trump's no saint, either, Rob. Ha.

Better send him some more money. He's running out, fast.

You're a bit lagging. Trump is now listed as one of the 500 wealthiest people in the world at 6.5billion...and counting. His appellate victory for $175million is just the beginning of the downfall for that fatass spearchucker DA in NY. Watch MSNBC & CNN like I've been doing for enjoyment the past few days. The absolute dread and hopelessness on their ugly ass faces (compared to the unending beauty on Fox News of course) are just a magnificent precursor to what we'll be witnessing in early Nov.!

Don'tchà just LOVE it!!!

[jdog]

My typical edge at video poker is 1-2%, so rigged games could neuter me or worse. A major incident just occurred recently in Vegas:

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gamb...cannot-be-hit/

Absolutely, VP edges are generally small.

I find that Durango incident disturbing. I read the whole thread and gaming's initial response was: We'll check to see if the game has met the min RTP?? Total incompetence. Anybody who knows anything about the math involved would instantly recognize something is wrong. Plus a malfunction is a unique un-duplicateable error, but once Durango was made aware that the issue occurred repeatedly and the progressive could not be hit, they should have to correct it immediately and also be on the hook to repay player's losses. Allowing a bug that advertises an illegitimate jackpot award is fraud. The Wizard had to step in before gaming took it seriously, so a lackadaisical approach from both the casino and gaming.
Also surprising that any bug in the progressive sys could effect a hand being dealt. That should not be possible by design. These guys reported the game would crash BEFORE the kicker would show up on the screen. It's one thing for the hand to show up and just not pay the prog, or for the machine to crash after the hand is dealt... but to crash and then redeal the last card?? WTH

[Rob.Singer]

No one should be shocked at this. And players due a refund? Really? How? I'm stepping in right now saying I blew $1200 on the machines but I wasn't using a card. What would I deserve---two free drinks?

Errors and cheating happen. If you're stupid enuf to play these games while being blinded by the artificially high +EV, tough luck Bubba. No one cared how much the casinos handed me or anyone else during the DU glitch years. Now we're concerned about a handful of players getting a beat down on QUARTER machines? Please.....

[mickeycrimm]

I was heavily involved in video poker my first ten years in gambling. When I first started I didn't really know what to think about machines possibly being gaffed. But this is pretty much how I thought:

If I hit 7 quads in 500 hands "hey, it's random!"

If I went 1000 hands without a quad "hey, this shit is gaffed!"

That's pretty much how I thought the first few years. When I was running good I was in a good mood so it was random. When I was running badly I was pissed so "this shit is gaffed!"

So that's how you determine if it's random or not.

Running good it's random
Running badly it's gaffed.

It took me a few years to get over that shit.
i

[Garnabby]

It's not difficult. There's money involved--and at times big money. The Clintons siphoned off millions from a Haitian disaster fund for God's sake. People all the time have their credit cards compromised after helping out charitable causes. By definition, in the casino business, if there's a will there's a way. Nothing is sacred.

Trump's no saint, either, Rob. Ha.

Better send him some more money. He's running out, fast.

You're a bit lagging. Trump is now listed as one of the 500 wealthiest people in the world at 6.5billion...and counting. His appellate victory for $175million is just the beginning of the downfall for that fatass spearchucker DA in NY. Watch MSNBC & CNN like I've been doing for enjoyment the past few days. The absolute dread and hopelessness on their ugly ass faces (compared to the unending beauty on Fox News of course) are just a magnificent precursor to what we'll be witnessing in early Nov.!

Don'tchà just LOVE it!!!

A New York appeals court on Monday reduced the $454 million that former President Donald Trump was required to put up while he appeals his civil fraud case. Now Trump must put up, by April 4, a mere $175 million. The trouble is, he may not get a bond for that amount, either. Should that happen, this act of judicial mercy will end up feeling to Trump like a curse.

[Rob.Singer]

Trump's no saint, either, Rob. Ha.

Better send him some more money. He's running out, fast.

You're a bit lagging. Trump is now listed as one of the 500 wealthiest people in the world at 6.5billion...and counting. His appellate victory for $175million is just the beginning of the downfall for that fatass spearchucker DA in NY. Watch MSNBC & CNN like I've been doing for enjoyment the past few days. The absolute dread and hopelessness on their ugly ass faces (compared to the unending beauty on Fox News of course) are just a magnificent precursor to what we'll be witnessing in early Nov.!

Don'tchà just LOVE it!!!

A New York appeals court on Monday reduced the $454 million that former President Donald Trump was required to put up while he appeals his civil fraud case. Now Trump must put up, by April 4, a mere $175 million. The trouble is, he may not get a bond for that amount, either. Should that happen, this act of judicial mercy will end up feeling to Trump like a curse.

You don't know Trump....and you certainly aren't familiar with the libtard press, who continually pretend like you do.

[jdog]

Mickey, I didn't say I thought any casino was gaffed but I am paying attention. I was just curious as to what the chances are now because we know it's happened in the past. I think the Durango incident illustrates that even when something is blatantly wrong, a top regulator like the NGC is slow to act... and it's disconcerting for all players. But I believe smurger's point is valid, there is little to gain for the many involved in a corporate structure.

Rob, pretty sure if you were still playing you'd be the first to complain about an unhittable prog. Wasn't it you that made a big deal about cards not being random on a single card draw years ago??

[Rob.Singer]

Rob, pretty sure if you were still playing you'd be the first to complain about an unhittable prog. Wasn't it you that made a big deal about cards not being random on a single card draw years ago??

You're probably right. But then, it's becoming harder and harder to trust in pretty much everything being cared about at a noble level in today's world.

[Garnabby]

Spoken like a true con man, Rob. Ha.

You'r3 probably right. But th3n, it's b3coming harder and harder to trust in pretty much ev3rything b3ing cared about at a noble lev3l in today's world.

---> Blood: The Natural Lubricant (An Apocalyptic Adventure Beyond Sodom and Gomorrah).

https://anagram-solver.net/Your3prob...d?partial=true


Wow! Eleven 6's in the solution, by b's, d's, g's, and p's (after removing six 3's from the input line.)