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Thread: Electronic Blackjack - hit after doubling down.

  1. #1
    I am ready to talk about this now as this play is over for us (my brother and I). We have worked this play for 9 weeks traveling the country. I am aware that there are other players and teams working this play, that may not have given up yet, trying to locate and eek out the last of it, but the play is essentially dead and will be officially dead everywhere if it is not already.

    My brother located this play in early March at a small local casino in Las Vegas. I discussed it with several players, including Mickey on this forum. And I asked 4 different guys that would know the math, just what it was worth. I received 2 replies in the $200/hour range. The other two math guys I asked, didn't want to provide an answer without me revealing the machine brand and location. I wasn't surprised nor mad, as that is how AP's operate. One of those that wanted a cut of the play in exchange for the information, was Shackleford. While Mike didn't provide the answer I wanted, just the fact that he was interested, confirmed the other numbers I had received were probably right or close, as Shackleford wouldn't have been interested for peanuts.

    I never said that it was an electronic machine on this forum, but several people guessed that it was and that this hit after doubling down was a computer error or glitch. The way it worked is that after doubling down, and drawing a double down card, the "hit, stand, double down" options, lit up again, for a quick second, or more like partial second. If you acted quickly, you could hit and the extra card would be added. Think of it like this: You have a 10 vs dealer 8. You double down and draw a 3. Your double down is now likely a losing hand. But hitting again, you have a chance to improve your hand. You might still bust or draw a 2 or 3 and still lose, but you have the chance to improve your hand and that makes everything +EV.

    Unfortunately, due to controlled speed of game and betting limits, it is only worth several hundred dollars an hour. Otherwise it would be a goldmine.

    This game is by one of the big manufacturers. They make several different models of electronic blackjack. Unfortunately, this was their least popular or the one with the fewest placements. I think it might have been their newest. I was able to come up with a list of locations where the game was placed and it was only 28 throughout the U.S. It is possible that list wasn't up to date, but that is what we worked off of.

    So two were in Las Vegas and that is where we started. The first location, we played for 8 full days. It turns out that was the longest we were able to get in anywhere. On the 9th day we were met by a group of casino suits at the game and asked for I.D. I refused. One then said we were trespassed from the property and read the standard statement. I am not sure how a trespass works if they don't know your name. Now that this is over, that is a question I will ask of someone who knows. As we made our way to the door, we were weakly threatened with arrest for cheating. I practically laughed in the guy's face. I responded that we were not cheating, just playing with the opinions presented to us. He asked "what I meant"? That is when I realized they didn't even have a clue what we were doing...how we were winning. They only knew we were winning. I said no more and we walked out the door.

    At the second Las Vegas location, we encountered other players playing the 3 available stations. I wasn't sure if they were together (seemed to be) so we just watched for a bit, eventually ate lunch and when they were still playing and had the machines tied up several hours later, I concluded they were together. Some sort of team or group of AP's, none that I recognized. We decided to cross out that location, as they were surly well on their way to burning it out.

    So we took to the road, traveling 4 neighboring western states, playing a total of 5 locations. This lasted two and a half weeks and was the best of it. We encountered no other players or teams, but only were getting 3-5 days per location, before we were backed off or the machines disabled. I was hoping for longer periods of play at each location.

    The next trip was to the Gulf Coast area, and this is where things started to fall apart. 6 locations. We were only able to play 2 of them. This is where we encountered a second team or group of players playing at 2 locations. I assume they were the same team. Not necessarily the same players, but the same group. At 2 more locations, one the machines had been disabled and placed "out of order", and the second, I couldn't even find the machines. I think they had been taken off the floor. My suspicion was that these two locations had already been hit by that team or group of players. So we played the remaining two locations for a few days each and then headed towards the middle of the country. At this point that I knew we were burning through the locations and not even able to play some, and this play was not going to be nearly as lucrative as I was hoping. I was hoping for 4-6 months and making a couple hundred grand.

    After several successful stops at 2 locations in the middle of the county, things took a worse turn. On the first double down opportunity, my brother said "it's not working". Playing the station next door, I hit had my double down opportunity moments later, and also was not able to hit afterwords. Of the remaining stops in the several states in the middle of the county, we only found 1 that we could play and still hit after doubling down.

    It was apparent there was some kind of software upgrade or "fix" eliminating this opportunity. We still had the East Coast on 7 locations in the mid Atlantic area. I was hoping we were running ahead of this play ending software upgrade or fix. It turned out to be a mixed bag...mostly against us as we were only able to play 2 locations for a brief time. One location was playable one day and not the next.

    At this point we had hit all but 3 locations. There were stand alone locations, one being in Reno, which I was saving for the end, due to past problems at that location. We decided to skip these final 3 locations. Over the final 3-4 weeks were finding fewer playable games, and getting less actual time in (meaning less money). And traveling and spending expenses doing so.

    In the end we made some money, but not even half after expenses of what I was hoping for. But pretty good money for 9 weeks of work and as far as I know, no consequences as far as database issue or anything like that. i will have a friend double check that. The worst of it was that very first location with the trespass, and weak threat of arrest.

    After thoughts: When we discovered this play, my first decision was whether this was something we could milk for a long period of time. I decided it wasn't. And the reason I thought that is that unlike the Nester/Kane double up bug (you will note I don't credit anyone else with playing the double up), this was not a popular machine available at many casinos. It was very limited. But the bigger reason is also comparing to the Nester/Kane double up bug, there was no sequence of things needed to activate the bug or glitch. The option just lit up without doing anything to trigger it. So I figured there would be players, both AP's and just regular players that recognized this, so it wouldn't last long. I was hoping for longer than it did, but I think I made the right call.

    Anyway, I am sure you trolls will do your thing, so go to it.
    Dan Druff: "there's no question that MDawg has been an obnoxious braggart, and has rubbed a ton of people the wrong way. There's something missing from his stories. Either they're fabricated, grossly exaggerated, or largely incomplete".

  2. #2
    Well written story. I can tell you put in a lot of effort. You're doing better. Nothing in here jumps out as bullshit. Could very possibly be true even if no one actually believes it.

  3. #3
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Your blackjack story is well rehearsed.
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    This dude is a fraud. He just tries to piece together things that he imagines goes on based on a culmination of bits and pieces of stories he pulls from the Internet. Clown world.
    I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people.

    MDawg Adventures carry on at: https://www.truepassage.com/forums/f.../46-IPlayVegas

  4. #4
    Bravo. I really appreciate that kewl took some time away from the forum, not posting so much, to help sell the idea that he was working this play. A solid effort that, once again cannot be proven to have ever happened because the vulnerability has now been "fixed", but nevertheless resulted in yet another high 5-figure pay day for our AP hero. Great work man, keep them coming!

  5. #5
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    I am ready to talk about this now
    because given enough time to study up, even someone so removed from anything to do with casinos other than turning tricks inside them may present something that makes sense.

    Originally Posted by smurgerburger View Post
    "Sure I'm a compulsive liar, but at least my lies could have been true!"

    First pass attempt
    UNKewlJ's Odd/rare blackjack rule value thread - first attempt?
    didn't turn out so well. If at first your UNKewl lie doesn't succeed, try, try again! (after sufficient Studying Up).
    Last edited by MDawg; 05-17-2024 at 10:41 AM.
    I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people.

    MDawg Adventures carry on at: https://www.truepassage.com/forums/f.../46-IPlayVegas

  6. #6
    Originally Posted by jdog View Post
    Bravo. I really appreciate that kewl took some time away from the forum, not posting so much, to help sell the idea that he was working this play. A solid effort that, once again cannot be proven to have ever happened because the vulnerability has now been "fixed", but nevertheless resulted in yet another high 5-figure pay day for our AP hero. Great work man, keep them coming!
    Let me ask you something Jdog since YOU repeatedly talk about proving this or that? What have YOU proven on these forums? For that matter what has anyone ever proven? What Ap has proven anything they claim? Why would they? Why should they?

    About the closest I have seen is some people posting legitimate pictures of various wins or hits on machines. And I am not talking about pictures generated on a machine in their basement or the storage area of their daughters house. I am talking a few legit pictures of legit wins and hit. And what exactly do they prove about anyone's long term results? Even the late Alan Mendelson, posted pictures of some legit 100k hit and still honestly stated that he never had a winning year. So exactly who has posted proof of AP long term winnings? And NO, a picture of an RV at the dealership doesn't count.

    Some AP's share some things about what they do that may contain some claims of specific wins, But not a single AP has provided proof, of anything. And again, why should they/we?

    I takes me a every short time to figure out who knows what they are talking about, who's story and claims make sense and very low bar, don't defy the math or the way things work with the casino industry.

    And people used to KNOW that about me. Not a damn thing I have ever claimed about what I do has ever defied the math or the way things work.

    It's just that now, you people want to demonize and troll me because I had to be less than honest about some vaguely related details in order to protect myself. And really, I don't even think that is what this demonization is about. I think it is about something else entirely. And the comments (made up) pretty much prove that.

    So don't talk to me about proof of anything. No one is on trial and no AP has ever proven anything, nor should they. And when someone does attempt to prove something, with pictures of themselves in an RV that doesn't belong to them, or pictures of fake prop money, or pictures of stacks of real money, chips and watches, that actually proven nothing about what they claim, you can and should immediately write them off as baloney.

    But, keep on, keeping on, doing your troll thing.
    Dan Druff: "there's no question that MDawg has been an obnoxious braggart, and has rubbed a ton of people the wrong way. There's something missing from his stories. Either they're fabricated, grossly exaggerated, or largely incomplete".

  7. #7
    Translation: "I just can't take MONTHS of virtually no attention being given to me!"

    Yes, kew wrote up this fabrication slightly better than his usual array of never-thinking-it-through-first tales, proving that when those with crossed wires upstairs stop thinking they're somehow entitled to be believed just because they say so, they can become a bit more clever in their preparation and presentations.

    Yet what makes THIS story SCREAM total concoction is the fact that he had to insert his made-up baby bro as co-conspirator. It also follows his M.O. of supposedly knowing all these other savvy AP's who have also played this "find", yet not a single word has ever been uttered about it other than by the one and only proven liar and phony storyteller: Michael Cohen!....I mean, KEW!!

    Aside from the obvious---where's any proof of travel? Kew already got caught lying about his "surf's up!" trip to S. California with the greasy surfboard thats never existed, and halfway thru his fantasy trip to the east coast (again, with the fake baby bro) coach forced him into basically admitting it was all a ruse. And now this where once again, none of what he makes up can be verified.

    I love watching the known fraud making a massive fool of himself. Entertainment at it's finest!
    And judging from his last post, he's already shaken! Hahahahaha!!!!!

  8. #8
    I received an email today from a player who claimed he played the second LV casino, where we ran into a group of players hogging the machines. His timing doesn't exactly fit the day we were there, but maybe he played prior to that. very possible. Anyway, he claims there was another Las Vegas location and another California location that he played that weren't on my list of 28. This too seems very possible. I always suspected that list may not have been up to date or complete.

    And if that is true, and I don't doubt it, there were probably more locations throughout the U.S. I wasn't about to check every casino in the United States for this game. And I don't think it would have made a bit of difference to how this played out for us and the others players who may have played it. In the end, it was a race against time to locate and play as many locations as you could before they fixed the "problem". That there might have been even more locations and players playing them almost makes sense as to why the play ended fairly quickly.
    Dan Druff: "there's no question that MDawg has been an obnoxious braggart, and has rubbed a ton of people the wrong way. There's something missing from his stories. Either they're fabricated, grossly exaggerated, or largely incomplete".

  9. #9
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    It also follows his M.O. of supposedly knowing all these other savvy AP's who have also played this "find",
    Where do you come up with this stuff, old boy? Where did I ever say, I knew any other AP playing this play? NEVER!!!

    We ran into a group of players at the second LV location. I suspect they were AP's but am not 100% sure and there was no one I recognized. They could have just as easily been a group of regular players who discovered they could hit after doubling down.

    We ran into a second group playing two different locations down south. I strongly suspect they were an AP group, but I knew none of them.

    Seriously Rob, where do you come up with this shit? Of course the broader question is where do you come up with any of your bizarre shit.
    Dan Druff: "there's no question that MDawg has been an obnoxious braggart, and has rubbed a ton of people the wrong way. There's something missing from his stories. Either they're fabricated, grossly exaggerated, or largely incomplete".

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    I received an email today from
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    We ran into a second group
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    There is a clear trend that has developed now. All of KewlJ's implied associates are turning out to be other invented characters in his years of lies. ...RIP
    This "email received" by UNKewlJ is no more credible than the casino execs who showed up on Halloween at her nonexistent apartment to show the UNKewl one the fictional player records of someone she thinks is MDawg.

    Originally Posted by Seedvalue View Post
    Nothing about your online blackjack persona is real. However over the years you have in an attempt to legitimize this persona revealed personal information about yourself. Clearly you have a mental disorder stemming from the traumatic day spent with neighbor Guy as a young boy.
    Originally Posted by MDawg
    This is why MickeyCrimm said: He'd rather climb to the top of a tree just to tell a lie than stand on the ground and tell the truth.

    UNKewlJ follows a regular pattern of spouting nonsense and then when challenged trying to back it up with unverifiable hearsay. Individually they don't mean as much as collectively. Collectively this draws into question his entire projected persona and existence.
    I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people.

    MDawg Adventures carry on at: https://www.truepassage.com/forums/f.../46-IPlayVegas

  11. #11
    Originally Posted by MDawg View Post
    Always the same UNKewl pattern:

    1. Post some nonsense.

    2. Is challenged.

    3. Fictionalizes about someone or other who
    -wrote to him about it
    -did the same play
    -is aware that UNKewlJ did whatever it is UNKewlJ is claiming he did
    -was seen doing the same play.

    It's never enough that he did something, he has to also create some lies surrounding corroboration (that always center around unnamed, unknown, never to be revealed players in his fable).

    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    There is a clear trend that has developed now. All of KewlJ's implied associates are turning out to be other invented characters in his years of lies. ...RIP
    I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people.

    MDawg Adventures carry on at: https://www.truepassage.com/forums/f.../46-IPlayVegas

  12. #12
    I like the breadcrumbs left by seeking the "advice" of well known forum dwellers on the play, so they can later confirm that you told them about it, thereby giving you a specious appearance of having your story confirmed.

    I don't like having your brother discover the play himself. It's just too improbable. You should have said he noticed a bunch of degen slot hustlers fussing about the machine excitedly while one of them was trying to demonstrate something to the others, and his figured out something was up and spent an hour trying to figure it out. Much more realistic.

    I also think you boxed yourself in early on by describing the glitch as you did but then, needing to maintain your image of being a "modest, $100k a year AP" claiming it was only worth $200 an hour.

    I'm not going to dig around in EV calculators but I think the only way being allowed to hit once after a double down would only be worth $200/hr is with an unrealistically low max bet.

    You tried to account for this by saying the machine indeed has a low max bet, but the max bet is not innate to the machine, it is set by the casino from a range of options. And while some small casinos might set it low enough for your claim to be true (although I doubt even this, especially on a new installation rather than a legacy machine that has caused them problems from people beating multiplier days or whatever), others would certainly not. In AC for example.

    All in all not a bad story, much better than we've come to expect from you. As jdog noted the discipline you showed in mostly staying away from the forum while you were "on the road" was very impressive. That's real commitment.

  13. #13
    I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people.

    MDawg Adventures carry on at: https://www.truepassage.com/forums/f.../46-IPlayVegas

  14. #14
    Originally Posted by MDawg View Post
    Originally Posted by MDawg View Post
    Always the same UNKewl pattern:

    1. Post some nonsense.

    2. Is challenged.

    3. Fictionalizes about someone or other who
    -wrote to him about it
    -did the same play
    -is aware that UNKewlJ did whatever it is UNKewlJ is claiming he did
    -was seen doing the same play.

    It's never enough that he did something, he has to also create some lies surrounding corroboration (that always center around unnamed, unknown, never to be revealed players in his fable).

    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    There is a clear trend that has developed now. All of KewlJ's implied associates are turning out to be other invented characters in his years of lies. ...RIP
    One interesting (as in, obvious) point is that among the "corroboration" there is never anyone who actually ever observes him / has observed him doing the things he would like us to believe he does / has done.

    The only such corroborative evidence would be the APs who have eyeballed him as a
    Originally Posted by MDawg
    red to green player only, as a cover for his sugar daddy ways
    or as a
    Originally Posted by MDawg
    low end video poker player
    , these would be the only eyewitnesses to his actual play, eyewitnesses that he would like (us) to forget.
    Last edited by MDawg; 05-17-2024 at 03:09 PM.
    I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people.

    MDawg Adventures carry on at: https://www.truepassage.com/forums/f.../46-IPlayVegas

  15. #15
    KJ PM'd me when I had guessed it was a glitch instead of a rule. He explained the glitch and asked for advice as to what to do. The only advice I would give is to torch it. I promised not to tell anyone and didn't. I was in Montana for 5 months but finally took a trip. Hit only 4 casinos, but you can bet I checked the BJ machines for the glitch. But I didn't really go out of my way looking for it. There was no way I was going to drive highway night and day looking for it.

    KJ told me how the glitch worked which meant I knew what to look for. I kept it under wraps. But if he told others then all they had to do was check all BJ machines. He may have exposed the play himself.
    Challenge to redietz. We bet every NFL regular season game. You make the picks. If you lay the fav I get 2 extra points. If you take the dog I get a 2 point discount. Easy pickings for you.

  16. #16
    Maybe I'm gullible, but I am 50-50 on whether the story is real.

    I am a bit confused how this bug could have occurred in the first place. A large gaming manufacturer would copy their code from previously produced games -- none of which would have ever allowed hit after double.

    It also is highly unlikely to be an option the casino chooses to enable.

    With that said, if it's a new variant of electronic BJ, perhaps they just made some boneheaded developmental error and didn't do very robust testing.

    I would like to know how your brother discovered it.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  17. #17
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Maybe I'm gullible, but I am 50-50 on whether the story is real.
    In the original thread from March, tewlj reveals that he played the game, but did not know the rules.

    A professional blackjack player, and he did not know the rules. Ridiculous.

    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Probably doesn't allow doubling on anything except 10 and 11, maybe 9. One really needs to know the rules and decks used.
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    You can double on any 2 cards.
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Maybe I misspoke saying you can double on any 2 cards. I only played it for once myself. I do know you can double on 9 and 8 in addition to 10 and 11. Not sure about the soft doubles or doubling 7 or lower. So I shouldn't have said any 2 cards. I will check that out.

  18. #18
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Maybe I'm gullible, but I am 50-50 on whether the story is real.
    Of course we are treated to tewlj's typical contradictory claims, symptomatic of lying...

    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    I never said that it was an electronic machine on this forum
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    My brother found and has been playing a game (electronic), where the player is allowed to hit again after doubling down.
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Keep in mind this is an electronic game

  19. #19
    Once again, coach makes kew lose sleep with factual takedown.

    The guy is a serial liar who just cannot stop.

  20. #20
    That first post by KJ was like a 100X multiplier post. Ha.
    Every one /everyone knows it all; yet, no thing /nothing is truly known by any one /anyone. Similarly, the suckers think that they win, but, the house always wins, unless to hand out an even worse beating.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsa6ojQcYXQ

    Garnabby + OppsIdidItAgain + ThomasClines (or TomasHClines) + The Grim Reaper + LMR + OneHitWonder (or 1HitWonder, 1Hit1der) + Bill Yung ---> GOTTLOB1, or GOTTLOB = Praise to God!

    Blog at https://garnabby.blogspot.com/

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