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Thread: Persistence and Slot Vultures

  1. #21
    Overestimating peoples intelligence is too easy. They're gamblers. They don't give a fuck. People on here are clearly different.

    It creates a management problem. Tell me one trait of an AP that makes them desirable? Make the place less deserted at times?

  2. #22
    Originally Posted by accountinquestion View Post
    Overestimating peoples intelligence is too easy. They're gamblers. They don't give a fuck. People on here are clearly different.

    It creates a management problem. Tell me one trait of an AP that makes them desirable? Make the place less deserted at times?
    I’ll list a couple

    1. Generates tips for cocktail waitresses & slot staff. Yes I realize most APs don’t tip but I’m talking about the ones that are not retards.

    2. Chunk money off on negative EV games. Now I am talking about the retards, yes a lot of APs leave with the money but there are a lot of people who generate money from slot plays only to gamble it back.

    3. Generate free advertising, ploppies see people winning & they want to play more.

  3. #23
    I guess you could say an AP is a leach....on a leach. The casinos themselves don't have stellar reputations.
    Challenge to redietz. We bet every NFL regular season game. You make the picks. If you lay the fav I get 2 extra points. If you take the dog I get a 2 point discount. Easy pickings for you.

  4. #24
    I agree with Ben.

    People respond to incentives. If that's a problem, then operators need to redesign the incentives.

    Must-hit jackpots create extreme incentives because the reward increases with the probability of hitting. So the dummies who play at reset get crushed.

    In the bingo rooms, they have progressive dual-daub coverall jackpots. The reset is something like $20k in 32 balls called. Both of those parameters progress.

    Each additional ball doubles or triples the probability. At 32-ball reset, the probability is 1.3m to 1. South Point is now up to 35 balls for $140k:

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    Probability is now 80k to 1, so the jackpot is somewhere around breakeven at $2 per card, considering the value of consolation payoffs and ignoring tax bite.

    The progression does create excitement, but the regulars who play every day are drained.

  5. #25
    For the most part casinos that really care about slot APs already banned them years ago.

    What you read in industry journals or hear on industry podcasts is usually in the same vein of cashless gaming or skill based slots.

    Or the casino manager for a dump in the middle of nowhere full of meth heads talks about how he’s transforming it into a “world class” resort.

  6. #26
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Oh, yeah. What Buddy Frank called "perceived persistence" is taking over the casino floors. Pros are not fooled by them but they plant the idea in the ploppie's head that they are both:
    1. getting closer to hitting a jackpot
    2. hitting a bigger jackpot
    Thanks for posting the podcast link. I noticed that the podcast hosts and guest didn't talk about the false-flag persistence slot category. In this category, the slot is indeed persistent, but has a false flag as well. For example, on Dragon Spin, the amount of gold liquid in the pots has nothing to do with how often the bonus round is triggered (this is random) - but, it does tell you what the prize value range will be once you get a bonus round. When the five pots are totally full of gold liquid and sparkling (the maximum fill point), then the Dragon Spin is +EV.

    Same thing with Extreme Wild Stars/Lanterns (SegaSammy). The number of filled-in Stars or Lanterns above the reels has nothing to do with the likelihood of getting a bonus. But the game is persistent because there are also 2 coin slots above each reel (like Golden Egypt), and when reels 2 or 3 (or both of them) have two coins, the game becomes +EV.

    Last edited by tableplay; 06-11-2024 at 08:02 AM.

  7. #27
    Why don't the companies that make slot machines invent some new games and machines that aren't AP'able?

  8. #28
    Originally Posted by pinchingyourballs View Post
    Why don't the companies that make slot machines invent some new games and machines that aren't AP'able?
    They do. For example, Willy Wonka and Cash Express Luxury Line.

  9. #29
    Originally Posted by pinchingyourballs View Post
    Why don't the companies that make slot machines invent some new games and machines that aren't AP'able?
    I am leaning heavily into my blackjack experience with this answer, but I think it applies to machines as well.

    Just because a game CAN be beaten (+EV), doesn't mean that it IS being beaten (overall). It takes not only the knowledge of how to beat it, but the discipline, bankroll, and mental ability to withstand any negative variance along the way.

    I believe it is everything after the knowledge that brings down one hell of a lot of AP want-a-bees. And I think the casinos recognize this too. So instead of creating games that can't be beat (as suggested), they create games that can be beat, and then just focus on the very few that actually do so.

    As has always been the case with card counting, the common knowledge that something can be beaten, actually plays to the casino advantage, because many will try and few actually can.
    Dan Druff: "there's no question that MDawg has been an obnoxious braggart, and has rubbed a ton of people the wrong way. There's something missing from his stories. Either they're fabricated, grossly exaggerated, or largely incomplete".

  10. #30
    Good point Tableplay.

    I think the term the industry uses for this is perceived perceived persistence.

  11. #31
    Originally Posted by DGenBen View Post
    Good point Tableplay.

    I think the term the industry uses for this is perceived perceived persistence.
    Indeed. Thanks Ben.

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